help/aid + shove

[Illium]

Assuming characters are standing in the appropriate places, could one ally help/aid a character in shoving an enemy prone by giving the shoving-character advantage to the athletics check?

I ask, because I was wondering if the following combo could be made to work according to RAW. Human Variant Warlock (Pact of the Chain) takes prodigy (XGtE) at first level (gives prestige + skill), and obtains prestige in Athletics. Assuming characters are well-positioned, the invisible improved-familiar helps/aids the warlock giving him advantage on Athletics check for shove. On the warlock's turn, as a bonus action he casts Hex on the (adjacent) enemy target, giving the target disadvantage on Athletics, uses his action to shove enemy prone (advantage Athletics check with expertise contested by disadvantaged Athletics check). If he still has enough movement, he then he steps back, leaving the target (quite probably) prone while the warlock finishes his turn outside the melee attack range for the next turn (assuming enemy has 30 foot movement, and no dash etc).

Maybe fun combo/melee-escape if teamed up with a rogue.

[E’Tallitnics]

Most of that will work but 3 things:

1. You can't Hex a skill, just an ability.
2. If you're shoved you can contest that action with your Dex or Str, your choice.
3. If you leave the prone creatures' reach they'll get an Opportunity Attack (with disadvantage).

[JackPhoenix]

To be able to Help with ability checks, you'll need to be able to make the check yourself (unlike attacks). You can only shove creatures one size larger than you or smaller. Imp is tiny, which means he could only help you with small and tiny creatures. In addition, shoving is part of an attack action, which familiars can't take (Help isn't, but again, to use Help with ability checks, the familiar must be able make the check on its own).

So, the general idea works, but not with a familiar.

Also, prone enemy can still make Opportunity attack if you move away, even if it's at disadvantage.

[Illium]

Thanks for the response.

Most of that will work but 3 things:

1. You can't Hex a skill, just an ability.
2. If you're shoved you can contest that action with your Dex or Str, your choice.
3. If you leave the prone creatures' reach they'll get an Opportunity Attack (with disadvantage).

1. Sure, I meant Hex STR, which should give disadvantage on the STR (athletics) check
2. True, but creatures don't know they are hexed until they use the ability, so a big strong enemy who chooses to contest with DEX instead of STR because STR is hexed but he doesn't know it yet is... well... possible, but meta-gamey.
3. Damn. I didn't know about this.

To be able to Help with ability checks, you'll need to be able to make the check yourself (unlike attacks). You can only shove creatures one size larger than you or smaller. Imp is tiny, which means he could only help you with small and tiny creatures. In addition, shoving is part of an attack action, which familiars can't take (Help isn't, but again, to use Help with ability checks, the familiar must be able make the check on its own).

So, the general idea works, but not with a familiar.

Okay, so I'm sort of confused. Let's suppose the enemy is small, and the familiar wants to help/aid. The Find Familiar Spell from PHB says:

"A familiar can't attack, but it can take other actions as normal."

From the Pact of the Chain PHB it says (about the Pact Familiar)

"Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to make one attack of its own with its reaction."

And under the Help action in the PHB it says

When you take the Help action, the creature you aid gains advantage on the next ability provided that it makes the check before the start of your next turn.

Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally's attack more effective.

So the familiar can't help with the ability check because it must be able to complete the task it's attempting to help with, which if the enemy is small then it can, but anything larger and it can't. Right? If the warlock were going to make an attack roll, the help action by the familiar would give the warlock advantage on any size creature, but a shove doesn't involve an attack roll, it involves a STR (athletics) check, so no benefit there either.

Maybe I'm not confused. Just disappointed. Thanks for the help.

[JackPhoenix]

Snip

PHB, p. 175 "A character can only provide help if the task is one that he or she could attempt alone."

That's only relevant for ability checks, not attack rolls, which is what we're talking about in this case. Shove is an ability check with few requirements:

• The target needs to be at most one size category larger than the imp. So, only works against Small and smaller targets. Simple enough.
• Shove is part of an Attack action. Now, this one is the problem: familiars can't normally take the Attack action, and thus Shove. As Shove is ability check, the familiar would be unable to Help someone with it, as he would be unable to attempt it alone. Chain warlock's familiar can't take the Attack action either: if the master takes Attack action, and sacrifices his attack, the familiar can attack using its reaction... but at no point he's able to take the Attack action, and thus use Shove. Reaction attack doesn't actually allow him to substitute the attack for shove or grapple attempt.

It's a bit confusing, but that's what RAW says.