Limit to divine intervention?

[kenGarff]

Initially, I thought divine intervention as cleric’s wish where he can ask for his god to do anything for him (for simplicity, o will assume this is level20). However, I’ve been told this is not true and that te god can grant an effect of any cleric spell via divine intervention. Is this true? What are the exact RAW limits to the divine intervention effects? Can it do something like asking for immortality (age related)? Or is that way out of what divine intervention can do RAW.

I’d truly appreciate your insights!

[Nifft]

Initially, I thought divine intervention as cleric’s wish where he can ask for his god to do anything for him (for simplicity, o will assume this is level20). However, I’ve been told this is not true and that te god can grant an effect of any cleric spell via divine intervention. Is this true? What are the exact RAW limits to the divine intervention effects? Can it do something like asking for immortality (age related)? Or is that way out of what divine intervention can do RAW.

I’d truly appreciate your insights!

http://5e.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm

Divine Intervention

Beginning at 10th level, you can call on your deity to intervene on your behalf when your need is great. Imploring your deity's aid requires you to use your action. Describe the assistance you seek, and roll percentile dice. If you roll a number equal to or lower than your cleric level, your deity intervenes. The GM chooses the nature of the intervention; the effect of any cleric domain spell would be appropriate.

If your deity intervenes, you can't use this feature again for 7 days. Otherwise, you can use it again after you finish a long rest. At 20th level, your call for intervention succeeds automatically, no roll required.

- You can describe any effect you want.

- If you succeed on the roll, the DM chooses what happens. If you fail the roll, nothing happens and the DM goes back to stabbing your friends with gnolls.

- The spells in each Domain are given as explicitly appropriate effects for the general power level of the intervention. They're a guideline, not a limit.

[Naanomi]

Intend to cap effects as 9th level spells (or comparable effects) unless I want the plot to do more with it

[kenGarff]

Thank you. I wanted to have that age immortality much like an ancients paladin’s oath feature but I suppose that won’t be possible if my DM chooses to have Divine Intervention effects be cleric spells 9 and below, or similar power level.

[Mith]

If you can plan it out as a DM, I like the idea of having strange coincidrnces happen as opposed to overtly magical effects. So a squad of fighters appear to assist with the orcs for example.

[Derpaligtr]

If you can plan it out as a DM, I like the idea of having strange coincidrnces happen as opposed to overtly magical effects. So a squad of fighters appear to assist with the orcs for example.

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" - god drunk robot Me

[Lunali]

If you can plan it out as a DM, I like the idea of having strange coincidrnces happen as opposed to overtly magical effects. So a squad of fighters appear to assist with the orcs for example.

Even more fun if you roll the percentile in secret.

[Naanomi]

Thank you. I wanted to have that age immortality much like an ancients paladin’s oath feature but I suppose that won’t be possible if my DM chooses to have Divine Intervention effects be cleric spells 9 and below, or similar power level.

... I’m not sure letting someone try to get a new class feature from other classes every week of downtime is a precedent I’d be comfortable setting

[Anymage]

Miracles tend to involve actively doing something instead of being a small but permanent alteration to your nature. Divine Intervention is for those hail mary moments, not something you should spam during downtime.

If the question is how to achieve agelessness, I'd point you at either Wish (I'd gauge it well within the power of the spell, although since it's not using the Anyspell function you will face the drain effects), or epic boons. Age categories and relevant stat mods aren't a thing in 5e, I haven't looked through enough books to tell if magical effects that age you are rare or entirely nonexistent, and maximum age is merely a suggestion. The quest for immortality is enough of a plot point that I wouldn't be comfortable resolving it by having you spam your god call chance until you finally luck out. But it isn't going to make you mechanically more powerful, so it's totally worth asking the DM to include it as a quest reward for you.

[Kane0]

Divine Intervention is for those hail mary moments, not something you should spam during downtime.

But that said, theres nothing saying you cannot. It may lead to a Gracchi situation but hey, adventuring isn’t for the risk averse.

[Tanarii]

It definitely seems best used spamming during downtime. Praying for a True Resurrection (material component free) for your friend, for example. 52% chance of success after a weeks prayer, 77% after two weeks.

[Lunali]

Intended or not, the mechanics of Divine Intervention make it more suited for daily prayers than something you use in an urgent situation. If you are DM and that isn't the way you want your players using it, change the mechanics.

[Ganymede]

Intended or not, the mechanics of Divine Intervention make it more suited for daily prayers than something you use in an urgent situation. If you are DM and that isn't the way you want your players using it, change the mechanics.

Considering that "The GM chooses the nature of the intervention," what mechanics would he even need to change? He has all the tools at his fingertips right there.

[Angelalex242]

It's up to him really.

If you're a cleric of Thor...


You might see a hammer smite your enemies.

You might see lightning strikes your enemies.

You might see Chris Hemsworth show up like Infinity War.

You might see a cleric spell duplicated.

And it's basically all up to Thor himself.

[Tanarii]

Considering that "The GM chooses the nature of the intervention," what mechanics would he even need to change? He has all the tools at his fingertips right there.

The chance of success being = cleric level, with one chance per long rest.

[Ganymede]

The chance of success being = cleric level, with one chance per long rest.

Yeah, I know. It doesn't change much. The DM still decides what actually happens, and a DM is granted the power to offer downgraded interventions for players using their downtime to farm Divine Intervention successes.

"The rules encourage Divine Intervention farming" is not a real problem in the game.

[Tanarii]

"The rules encourage Divine Intervention farming" is not a real problem in the game.

Agreed that it's not a problem. IMO it's a good thing.

The "problem" is a result of people who refuse to accept this and see a 10-19% shot once per day as somehow problematic.

[Ganymede]

Agreed that it's not a problem. IMO it's a good thing.

The "problem" is a result of people who refuse to accept this and see a 10-19% shot once per day as somehow problematic.

Please don't gum up my notifications with a quote if you aren't actually saying something to me.

[Derpaligtr]

Please don't gum up my notifications with a quote if you aren't actually saying something to me.

Many people see a lot of things problematic on paper, like the 10-19% chance, but haven't actually used them in game so they freak out.


I'm a stinker