Rogue damage and PRC

[Zumo]

Hi everyone,

I am currently a lvl 10 rogue with opportunism and trying to maximize my damage during fights however I am having a few problems and would like to know a few suggestions:

-The DM doesn't let me take advantage of the full sneak attack + 2h weapon fighting. (He states that only the first blow would have the sneak attack bonus since creature would be aware after)
so during my action I can make 1 sneak attack and the remaining normal attacks.

-I wanted to get the Hide in plain sight so I could make a sneak attack in each round however I find the classes that would give it a bit weak and I am not allowed to make multi prestige classes

-I am having issues to successfully hit the enemies (Their AC is high and I need high rolls)

-Poison use is also something I would like to get from the PRC

I found this class: Shadowdancer_Variant_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)
I'm not sure if the DM will allow it but I just wanted to get the 1st level of it and either go back to the rogue and stack more sneak attacks or go warrior to get BAB.

Do you have any suggestions ? It's kind of complicated case here :c

I am allowed to go around base classes however only 1 prestige class and I can compensate with feats too (not a problem with book crossing)

I am thankful for your attention,

kind regards

[DeTess]

How exactly has the DM ruled your sneak attack? Depending on his ruling, there are ways to still get sneak attack on all your attacks ins ome ways. One of which would be taking a dip in Swordsage, and taking the maneuver that makes you invisible for a single round. A 1-2 level swordsage dip certainly won't hurt you (on the second level you can even pick up as stance that increases your sneak attack by 2d6).

[ViperMagnum357]

Sneak Attack applies to all possible attacks that qualify-if you have the ability to make multiple attacks during a round, every attack you land on an enemy vulnerable to Sneak Attack will trigger the extra damage. If you 10th level and are TWF against, say, an ogre you flank, and have Improved TWF, you could make 4 attacks in a full attack, and each one that lands will deal sneak attack damage, providing the Ogre does not have fortification, concealment or improved Uncanny Dodge. Likewise, if you were running around with Improved Invisibility, all you attacks would trigger Sneak Attack on viable targets that could not see you. If you could make multiple attacks during a surprise round, all would normally trigger applicable Sneak Attacks.

If you are relying on lower-grade spells like Invisibility that end after an attack, then normally only the first attack would be a Sneak Attack, with the effect ending upon your first strike; unless you continued to meet other qualifications, like Flanking that target.

[Troacctid]

Hi everyone,

I am currently a lvl 10 rogue with opportunism and trying to maximize my damage during fights however I am having a few problems and would like to know a few suggestions:

-The DM doesn't let me take advantage of the full sneak attack + 2h weapon fighting. (He states that only the first blow would have the sneak attack bonus since creature would be aware after)
so during my action I can make 1 sneak attack and the remaining normal attacks.

This is correct if you are relying on stealth to turn on your sneak attacks. Attacking breaks stealth, and you would need to hide again.

However, if you are flanking, or under the effects of greater invisibility, or attacking a grappled enemy, etc., then you should be getting sneak attacks on all your attacks.

-I wanted to get the Hide in plain sight so I could make a sneak attack in each round however I find the classes that would give it a bit weak and I am not allowed to make multi prestige classes

Consider multiclassing into Warlock. You can take the darkness invocation and use it to qualify for the Blend into Shadows feat, which allows you to use a swift action to hide in plain sight if you're within 10 feet of an area of magical darkness. You'd also get a convenient eldritch blast ability for making sneak attacks against touch AC, which also helps against your "high enemy AC" problem.

-Poison use is also something I would like to get from the PRC

Assassin is a good one for this.

I found this class: Shadowdancer_Variant_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)
I'm not sure if the DM will allow it but I just wanted to get the 1st level of it and either go back to the rogue and stack more sneak attacks or go warrior to get BAB.

The official version of the class is here. It's a decent way to get the hide in plain sight ability.

[Zaq]

What's your usual method of qualifying for sneak attack? Flanking? Hiding? Being invisible? Forcing them to balance? Feinting?

As has been mentioned, if your qualifying condition continues to be true, every attack you make in a round will count as a sneak attack. Using the normal (as opposed to Greater) Invisibility spell will break after an attack, and so will attacking from a hidden position unless you've got another way to re-hide between swings (possible, but easier said than done), but most other methods should be good for the whole full attack. (Not feinting, I suppose, but feinting is weak unless you have a way to get it down to a free action, like with Invisible Blade, from Complete Warrior, or Scarlet Corsair, from Stormwrack—if you do have it down to a free action, check out the feat Surprising Riposte, from Drow of the Underdark.)

If you have the Rules Compendium, you can cite pg. 42 if you need proof, as there's a passage there that explicitly says that multiple qualifying attacks in a full attack count as sneak attack or other precision damage.

Of course, if your GM is simply ignoring RAW and nerfing you, you need to consider if you're still having fun with the character despite the nerfs. If you are, then that's the only thing that matters, but if you're not (and simply talking about it like adults doesn't improve things), consider playing a character that's not so subject to pointless nerfs (or consider building the character towards a radically different end).

As far as a PrC goes, it sounds like the character is already built and in play up to this point, right? If so, you'll need to look at what you qualify for, because a lot of getting into a PrC is picking the right skills and feats. If you happen to already have the feat structure in place to qualify for something you want, then everyone's happy, but it won't do much good to talk about a PrC that requires two or three feats you don't have if you don't have an easy way of obtaining said feats within the next few levels.

What's your current build like? For that matter, just how much higher do you need your attack rolls to be in order to hit reliably? I'm also not clear about what you mean by "I can also compensate with feats." Compensate for what, and just how many feats can you add to the build?

[Particle_Man]

A short sword of subtlety gives great bonuses to hit and damage when sneak attacking.

Given the house rule maybe look into spring attack?

[Troacctid]

Another way to improve your accuracy would be to find yourself a spectral dagger (to make touch attacks in melee) or a talon scepter (to make touch attacks at range). Both are from Magic Item Compendium, for 6000 and 10,305 gp respectively.

[Zumo]

Wow thank you all for the fast replies I will try to address them all in the same post :)

The ruling is : all sneak attacks will allays count has one attack either breaking stealth or just engaging an opponent. During my turn despite the number of attacks the first will have sneak bonus and the remaining (if successful will just have normal damage).

Randui:

The swordsage seems very useful I could switch to him for a few levels to get those stances I will need to read more into this anyway but I liked it a lot :D

ViperMagnum357:

My character is currently with 2 attacks (7/2) if I sneak attack with the ruling I explained, on my first attack I will deal: weapon damage + sneak attack bonus and then second attack : weapon bonus (this will apply in all cases)

Troacctid:

I need to look deeply into warlock and talk to my DM about it , when suddenly becoming caster I need to see his opinion on this. I can see the feat you mention can you link urls? if not tell me a way to read it please :)

Assasin's have the poison but have the hide in plain sight very far away from reach while shadow dancers (official class) lack the poison but would be the best way to get that hability, this other class I mention if the DM allows would be the combination of both and since I'm only interested in that 1st level I could pursue my quest to get more sneak attacks :p

Zaq:

I'm quite the noob on this skill but so far I was either hiding or flanking. Feint from what I've read will not cause sneak attack nor oportunity, I use it just to lower AC (when not sneaking)

Yes I'm currently playing the game and we've had a few games now. The DM bends rules sometimes in our favour and sometimes not, this is one of those cases (very rare to happen) and his point has some good argumentation.

Explaining all the build will be hard since I would need to translate all the content (and I'm not that good hehe).
As far as attack rolls go, I have 20 dex which gives me 5 bonus over my 7 base and +1 of the feat therefore I have about 13 BAB. We fought some warriors who were near 24/25 AC (not sure now) so basically I got most of my first attacks in, and the second failed almost all the times I used a lot of feint to get past these since I was in close quarters.

I actually have fun because I'm more interested in the thief part but I feel bad not to be able to strike nor deal damage as good as the remaining party.

Particle_Man:

The items will also be important but right now I need to see how I will evolve, thank you for the suggestion :)

[ViperMagnum357]

Eesh. Precision damage is already one of the weakest forms of attack, and is the only real way a straight Rogue has to eliminate targets, so nerfing that on top...not much you can do with it. With that kind of house rule, I would not play a character with precision damage, period. Most of the suggestions here are built around the assumption that your DM was ruling incorrectly; as is, I might retire the character altogether and build something else. Hitting target AC is kind of pointless if your already weak damage has been pummeled with the nerf bat this completely. I would strongly consider rolling up a new character.

[Endril]

If you're having trouble hitting, Assassin would also help there, as they have access to wraithstrike. Between wraithstrike, poison use, and hide in plain sight, it really sounds like that's the way to go. I'd even ask if the DM would let you retrain some rogue levels into Assassin so you can get what you want sooner.

Another trick I've seen with assassins is to put 2 levels in unseen seer and get hunter's eye as an assassin spell, which adds more sneak attack. Add in practiced spellcaster to get more.

I'd also look at the penetrating strike ACF if you find you're running into opponents immune to sneak attack. That tends to happen at higher levels.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Normally if you're flanking all your attacks are sneak attacks. If your DM rules otherwise there isn't much point in two weapon fighting. That'd also get rid of the -2 to hit from TWF.
If you want to do more damage you could switch out TWF for Craven (CoR) instead. It's not ideal but workable in a low power game.

For hitting enemies remember that flanking gives you a +2 to hit, as does attacking while being invisible, and they stack. A masterwork weapon is another cheap +1, though you should already have a magic weapon by now. There's the Sword of Sublety which adds another +4 to hit (and damage) when you sneak attack.
With your high dex you'll often win initiative and enemies are flat-footed until their first turn, so they'll also lose their dex bonus to AC.

[Troacctid]

Wow thank you all for the fast replies I will try to address them all in the same post :)

The ruling is : all sneak attacks will allays count has one attack either breaking stealth or just engaging an opponent. During my turn despite the number of attacks the first will have sneak bonus and the remaining (if successful will just have normal damage).

Maybe your DM is confusing it with the rule from 5e. It explicitly doesn't work that way in this edition but whatever.

Only being able to sneak attack once per turn makes the Warlock multiclass more attractive, since you can only do one eldritch blast per turn regardless.

Troacctid:

I need to look deeply into warlock and talk to my DM about it , when suddenly becoming caster I need to see his opinion on this. I can see the feat you mention can you link urls? if not tell me a way to read it please :)

It's from Drow of the Underdark (but it's not actually exclusive to drow).

Blend into Shadows
You can draw from nearby magical shadow to cloak yourself in darkness.
Prerequisite: Darkness as a spell-like ability.
Benefit: As a swift action, you can spend a use of your darkness spell-like ability to make a Hide check, even while being observed and without cover or concealment. You must be within 10 feet of an area of magical darkness. You also gain one additional daily use of your darkness spell-like ability.

The prestige class you referenced is homebrew material, not an official prestige class. Poison use is pretty easy to get, though. Rogues can actually exchange their 1st level trapfinding ability for it, if they want. You can also get it as a 1st level Bard in place of bardic knowledge (also costs one of your daily uses of bardic music). There's also the Master of Poisons feat (from the same book as Blend into Shadows), which not only gives you the poison use ability but also allows you to apply poison to a weapon as a swift action.

Master of Poisons
You are highly trained and adept in the use of toxic substances.
Benefit: You can apply poison or oil to a weapon as a swift action, without provoking attacks of opportunity. In addition, you never risk accidentally poisoning yourself when applying poison to a weapon.
Normal: Applying poison or oil to a weapon is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. When applying poison to a weapon, you have a 5% chance of accidentally poisoning yourself.

[gorfnab]

This handbook may be of some use to you. The Rogue Handbook. It's full of Rogue tips and resources with listing from all of the 3.5 books.

[iTreeby]

You could use volley attacks because the house rule is actually how volley attacks work. I'd probably rebuild as a spellwarp Sniper or something.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'd swap all of your sneak attack dice for fighter feats, as per the martial rogue ACF, in Unearthed Arcana.

No point in even having it if it's that nerfed.

[Zaq]

Do you have access to Tome of Battle? Maybe start taking levels in Swordsage or another initiator class. In addition to being very cool in general, their strikes are usually only single swings, so it hurts significantly less to be nerfed like you have been. You even get half credit for your non-initiator HD for your initiator level (necessary when choosing maneuvers), so you aren't just starting from zero.

[Endril]

Speaking of Tome of Battle, if you're looking for a way to deal more damage per hit, the shadow blade feat is worth checking out.