Rumor - Ryan Johnson Trilogy pulled?

[Zevox]

Funny, because that didn't happen to Luke when he got it from Obi-Wan despite his connection to Anakin. Which was a much stronger connection, seeing as how Anakin made it and used it extensively while Luke only had it for a couple years. It certainly screamed out "connection to the Force," but that was the extent of it. Again, all the buildup was pure fan work.

So yeah, I'm not seeing it.

Or it could just be that an item with a traumatic connection to the force (it DID see Luke see his father reveal and get this hand cut off) radiate a lot of memories. She's drawn to it because she's strong in the force.

It's like a spirit medium walking into a concentration camp. You're gonna sense that emotion.

But her visions had nothing to do with Luke or Anakin's pasts, but specifically included the moment her parents left her on Jakku. It was clearly meant to be taken as foreshadowing about her, specifically, and given it was coming from Luke's lightsaber, the connection is pretty clear.

[Peelee]

But her visions had nothing to do with Luke or Anakin's pasts, but specifically included the moment her parents left her on Jakku. It was clearly meant to be taken as foreshadowing about her, specifically, and given it was coming from Luke's lightsaber, the connection is pretty clear.

Anakin's lightsaber. Imean, if we're talking about people who had the lightsaber and then lost it, there's options. Even then, again, nothing like that had happened before, despite the much stronger connection the saber should have had between Anakin and Luke.

[Devonix]

Anakin's lightsaber. Imean, if we're talking about people who had the lightsaber and then lost it, there's options. Even then, again, nothing like that had happened before, despite the much stronger connection the saber should have had between Anakin and Luke.

Also if people want to blame someone blame Abrams. If he had planned for Rey to be related to anyone he would have said something. People forget that he was the Executive Producer for Episode 8 and it was known that he was going to make Episode 9. If he had something he wanted to do with Rey's parents.

If he had any idea in his head that he wanted her to be related to the Skywalkers. Then he would have told someone. He didn't because Her being related to anyone else was fan speculation, nothing more. Was it a reasonable speculation yes, the hints laid out could very easily be interpreted to her being related to and having a connection to them. But that is all it ever was, speculation. It was never fact.

[Peelee]

If he had any idea in his head that he wanted her to be related to the Skywalkers. Then he would have told someone. He didn't because Her being related to anyone else was fan speculation, nothing more. Was it a reasonable speculation yes, the hints laid out could very easily be interpreted to her being related to and having a connection to them. But that is all it ever was, speculation. It was never fact.

Replace the bolded with anyone and it still works. Also, seconding blaming Abrams as a fine avenue. Lord knows I do.

[Hopeless]

I'd have rather she be a Kenobi than a Skywalker.

Then could have revealed that the Force Ghost stuff required a conduit to work through which was Anakin's lightsaber in Obi-Wan's case.

Qui-Gon eventually managed without it by contacting Yoda himself or via Mortis if you watched TCW series, but that's not we're supposed to be talking about here.

Has this been officially announced or is it still heresay regarding cancelling his trilogy?

[Zevox]

Anakin's lightsaber. Imean, if we're talking about people who had the lightsaber and then lost it, there's options. Even then, again, nothing like that had happened before, despite the much stronger connection the saber should have had between Anakin and Luke.

Force visions aren't science where you repeat the same stimuli and get the same results every time. One not happening to Luke before doesn't mean anything.

[Peelee]

Force visions aren't science where you repeat the same stimuli and get the same results every time. One not happening to Luke before doesn't mean anything.

But it absolutely must have been referencing that her parentage was important? And when it later turns out that is not the case, instead of looking at it with an alternate reading, it must have still been the case, except now it's a mistake and/or was cast aside? And that somehow makes more sense than "it didn't mean that?"

[Devonix]

I'd have rather she be a Kenobi than a Skywalker.

Then could have revealed that the Force Ghost stuff required a conduit to work through which was Anakin's lightsaber in Obi-Wan's case.

Qui-Gon eventually managed without it by contacting Yoda himself or via Mortis if you watched TCW series, but that's not we're supposed to be talking about here.

Has this been officially announced or is it still heresay regarding cancelling his trilogy?

I always hated how they went about trying to make Force Ghosting some kind of learned skill. It was better when it was mysterious and I just assumed it had to do with accepting your place in the universe and the force. Surrendering yourself in peace. AKA how it used to work in the EU.

[Peelee]

It was better when it was mysterious

*coughhackwheezemidichlorians*

[Sapphire Guard]

It never made sense for Rey to be related to somebody. None of the characters we know are in a position to not notice a missing child or are likely to have one night stands on random Jakku locals.

[Kyrell1978]

*coughhackwheezemidichlorians*

Yay! Space herpes that come with super powers

[Peelee]

Yay! Space herpes that come with super powers

Ok that's hilarious enough that I almost don't mind it anymore.

[Kyrell1978]

Ok that's hilarious enough that I almost don't mind it anymore.

I do my best.

[Jayngfet]

On Rey's Vision:

It connects Rey to previous trilogies, explicitly. McGregor even came back to do ghost Obi-Wan and you can hear him in the background specifically addressing Rey as we segue from the OT into Rey's past.

The idea that she has all this connecting symbolism but is unrelated is just absurd. It clearly isn't meant to be any kind of generalized trauma given we have no reference to Anakin murdering a bunch of kids and his fellow Jedi but ONLY actions Anakin took directly relating to Padme and unborn Luke like learning about Plaguis and then leaping forward to the personal OT story. The content of what's in that vision is very specific and meant to link up Rey with the previous heroes in the context of the things that linked them up before. At one point I even picked apart the audio with my professional setup and the only other interpretation of some lines just explicitly mentions Rey as if she was also already related to the Jedi and third in a specific sequence.

Then you have all these awkward little touches like Leia hugging her over Chewbacca as if they're somehow related despite never having met, Ben mentioning in another sequence her visions of Ach-To, which are brought up again in TLJ before being cut short for a joke that didn't work, and Luke's expression at the end which certainly doesn't imply he's about to dismiss her the way he does.

Rey being actually no one as she claims is ridiculous. Not just that but for the fact that narrative drama demands that any no one who is suddenly important actually be someone important.

[Peelee]

On Rey's Vision:

It connects Rey to previous trilogies, explicitly. McGregor even came back to do ghost Obi-Wan and you can hear him in the background specifically addressing Rey as we segue from the OT into Rey's past.

The idea that she has all this connecting symbolism but is unrelated is just absurd. It clearly isn't meant to be any kind of generalized trauma given we have no reference to Anakin murdering a bunch of kids and his fellow Jedi but ONLY actions Anakin took directly relating to Padme and unborn Luke like learning about Plaguis and then leaping forward to the personal OT story. The content of what's in that vision is very specific and meant to link up Rey with the previous heroes in the context of the things that linked them up before. At one point I even picked apart the audio with my professional setup and the only other interpretation of some lines just explicitly mentions Rey as if she was also already related to the Jedi and third in a specific sequence.

Then you have all these awkward little touches like Leia hugging her over Chewbacca as if they're somehow related despite never having met, Ben mentioning in another sequence her visions of Ach-To, which are brought up again in TLJ before being cut short for a joke that didn't work, and Luke's expression at the end which certainly doesn't imply he's about to dismiss her the way he does.

Rey being actually no one as she claims is ridiculous. Not just that but for the fact that narrative drama demands that any no one who is suddenly important actually be someone important.

A.) Guiness says "Rey," not McGregor. It's editing from when he said "afraid."
2.) The symbolism being meaningless isn't absurd. Abrams has famously said that he creates mysteries without knowing the solution. The lightsaber visions are nothing more than an Abrams Mystery Box.

[warty goblin]

I never figured TFA was hinting directly that Rey was Luke's kid. I thought it the most probable - and groanworthy - reveal, simply because Star Wars gonna Star War, but not because the movie was explicitly pointing at that.

I did think the movie was pretty clearly hinting, if not outright showing, that Rey's background/parentage was important, and probably connected to Luke's academy in some way. Kylo certainly acted like a girl from Jakku was a big deal, which makes no sense if they aren't connected. If Rey had been a student at the Academy, or going to become one, and her parents left her on Jakku to keep Ren from catching her, that would have struck me as a reasonable resolution to the setup. What we got just took all that hinting at important stuff and chucked it right out the window, in some combination of "isn't surbverting expectations cool?" and mystery box nonsense.

(I'd note that Rey's parents being nobodies is entirely consistent with both hypotheses.)

[Devonix]

On Rey's Vision:

It connects Rey to previous trilogies, explicitly. McGregor even came back to do ghost Obi-Wan and you can hear him in the background specifically addressing Rey as we segue from the OT into Rey's past.

The idea that she has all this connecting symbolism but is unrelated is just absurd. It clearly isn't meant to be any kind of generalized trauma given we have no reference to Anakin murdering a bunch of kids and his fellow Jedi but ONLY actions Anakin took directly relating to Padme and unborn Luke like learning about Plaguis and then leaping forward to the personal OT story. The content of what's in that vision is very specific and meant to link up Rey with the previous heroes in the context of the things that linked them up before. At one point I even picked apart the audio with my professional setup and the only other interpretation of some lines just explicitly mentions Rey as if she was also already related to the Jedi and third in a specific sequence.

Then you have all these awkward little touches like Leia hugging her over Chewbacca as if they're somehow related despite never having met, Ben mentioning in another sequence her visions of Ach-To, which are brought up again in TLJ before being cut short for a joke that didn't work, and Luke's expression at the end which certainly doesn't imply he's about to dismiss her the way he does.

Rey being actually no one as she claims is ridiculous. Not just that but for the fact that narrative drama demands that any no one who is suddenly important actually be someone important.

As I said, there are reasons to assume the connection. But facts are that there isn't one. and that if there was, it means that Abrams changed his mind about it. This is how Abrams has always written. He tosses out a million ideas, has the audience connect the dots for him and then either goes off of the speculation or ignores it.

[Kyrell1978]

A.) Guiness says "Rey," not McGregor. It's editing from when he said "afraid."
2.) The symbolism being meaningless isn't absurd. Abrams has famously said that he creates mysteries without knowing the solution. The lightsaber visions are nothing more than an Abrams Mystery Box.

Guiness says "Rey" but McGregor finishes the line "these are your first steps." So....both of you are right?

I always just figured that since the lightsaber had been wielded by two of the most powerful jedi, it was sort of acting as a force aritfact or holocron or some such. In this manner it gave some things that were important to the force user and some things that were important to it or its former wielders.

[Mechalich]

Here's the thing, TFA sets up an explicit Chekov's Gun labelled 'Rey's Lineage.' There are any number of ways that gun can go off, but it has to go off, otherwise those scenes become nothing but a deceptive bait and switch to the audience which is bad storytelling, period. The reveal that Rey's parents are nobodies is bad for two reasons. First because it undercuts the foreshadowing and subverts expectations in a series that is not about subversion. And, second, because it amounts to nothing. If Rey had reacted to the revelation that her parents abandoning her by having a complete break down and choosing to join Kylo Ren - which is what he obviously hoped would happen - that would have been a viable plot twist based on the setup that would have worked. Fans might not have liked it, but it was a reasonable storytelling option. Instead, Rey shrugs the revelation off - Chekov's Gun jammed - and the whole thing goes nowhere.

This type of thing is one of the major storytelling issues with TLJ - various things are setup only to have no payoff. Finn and Rose accomplish nothing. Poe destroys the dreadnaught and it has no effect on the overall tactical order of battle. Poe's mutiny is strangled in the cradle. The sand-skimmer charge is curtailed at the last moment. Rey's vision in the cave reveals nothing. Snoke's grand plans are rendered irrelevant by his death. Luke's not really on Crait but dies anyway. Every time the movie sets up something to happen, it subsequently fails to resolve.

[LaZodiac]

Here's the thing, TFA sets up an explicit Chekov's Gun labelled 'Rey's Lineage.' There are any number of ways that gun can go off, but it has to go off, otherwise those scenes become nothing but a deceptive bait and switch to the audience which is bad storytelling, period. The reveal that Rey's parents are nobodies is bad for two reasons. First because it undercuts the foreshadowing and subverts expectations in a series that is not about subversion. And, second, because it amounts to nothing. If Rey had reacted to the revelation that her parents abandoning her by having a complete break down and choosing to join Kylo Ren - which is what he obviously hoped would happen - that would have been a viable plot twist based on the setup that would have worked. Fans might not have liked it, but it was a reasonable storytelling option. Instead, Rey shrugs the revelation off - Chekov's Gun jammed - and the whole thing goes nowhere.

This type of thing is one of the major storytelling issues with TLJ - various things are setup only to have no payoff. Finn and Rose accomplish nothing. Poe destroys the dreadnaught and it has no effect on the overall tactical order of battle. Poe's mutiny is strangled in the cradle. The sand-skimmer charge is curtailed at the last moment. Rey's vision in the cave reveals nothing. Snoke's grand plans are rendered irrelevant by his death. Luke's not really on Crait but dies anyway. Every time the movie sets up something to happen, it subsequently fails to resolve.

The gun went off you just didn't hear it. You can see throughout the film Rey trying to find people to be her parents (this could even explain hugging Lea, she's a big powerful mom related to the big powerful Dad who just died) and in TLJ Keylo Ren tries to manipulate her based on that weakness. It's paid off, you just don't like how it was paid off. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. And she HAD a break down, she almost DID join him.

Rey's vision in the cave is showing her what she's always known; she is alone. She isn't inherently special and has no grand destiny laid out for her. There is only herself, no matter how far she looks. They also set up that astral projecting can kill you so that's valid.

[Devonix]

The gun went off you just didn't hear it. You can see throughout the film Rey trying to find people to be her parents (this could even explain hugging Lea, she's a big powerful mom related to the big powerful Dad who just died) and in TLJ Keylo Ren tries to manipulate her based on that weakness. It's paid off, you just don't like how it was paid off. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. And she HAD a break down, she almost DID join him.

Rey's vision in the cave is showing her what she's always known; she is alone. She isn't inherently special and has no grand destiny laid out for her. There is only herself, no matter how far she looks. They also set up that astral projecting can kill you so that's valid.

Exactly, it was a bait and switch internally. Rey thought that she was " a part of this. " It's a plot point and weapon that the badguys use in the story against her. But she is a part of this, she's there because of who she is, not how she relates to other people. Its a lesson that the character is supposed to learn. I

[Dr.Samurai]

When you are subverting every expectation, they start not to pay off. You just come away thinking the director went "Hmm... what will the audience expect in this scene? Let's do the opposite of that thing!!"

So everyone is wondering who Rey is (read: who her parents are); Rey, Han, the alien woman with the thick lenses, Luke, etc. It's all a mystery that keeps getting alluded to. The alien woman asks who Rey is, cut to Rey being lured down the hall by the lightsaber and flashback scenes etc. We've all been through this already.

The "payoff" doesn't make sense. If her parents are nobody, the storytelling has failed. The only reason we were wondering who her parents were in the first place is because it was hyped up as a great mystery before the movie came out, and then in the actual movie. Otherwise, who cares? Do we know who Obi-wan's parents are? Or Yoda's? Or Mace Windu's? Or Han's? Chewie's? Palpatine's? Not a single word is wasted on the parentage of any of these characters. Meanwhile, TFA and TLJ want us to care about Rey's parentage, just to tell us "Hey, they're no one. Never mattered, still doesn't, thanks for participating".

[Jayngfet]

Exactly, it was a bait and switch internally. Rey thought that she was " a part of this. " It's a plot point and weapon that the badguys use in the story against her. But she is a part of this, she's there because of who she is, not how she relates to other people. Its a lesson that the character is supposed to learn. I

The thing is Rey wasn't a part of it in that sense. She never actually said she thought Luke was her dad and there was never anything to indicate that from *her perspective*.

There are like a million dudes who were fighting but not Skywalkers. There were a lot of Jedi candidates who also weren't Skywalkers. We, the audience, draw that conclusion because we have the luxury of time and introspection Rey never got. What was to Rey a couple of weird seconds is to us something people spent hours looking at in some cases and something we know has content. We as the audience know I'm thinking that two conversations are related and Rey only figures it out herself much later during a process we see in more or less real time when she does.

Likewise we as the audience also know Rey's parents being nobody makes no sense because we as the viewers have the luxury of going back and checking and we can see that for that to be true and consistent with 8 several characters in 7 would need to act very differently from their actual behavior there, or in any subsequent media. Rey and Unkar do not have an Anakin and Watto relationship despite the story asserting their equivalency in 8. Rey lives on her own and freelances for Unkar, she doesn't act like his literal slave sold to him for cheap. You can follow this through every other part of the story since Rey being nobody doesn't actually answer the questions asked in BOTH FILMS like why Rey has visions of Luke and the Temple. It's brought up again in 8 only to be interrupted with a joke and never answered despite very obviously being a question both parties involved wanting an answer to and having it in their power to discern.

[Scowling Dragon]

Also that Lightsaber connection.
The movie pulls that lightsaber out of the most literal darkest pit, implies connection and then never does anything with it.

"Shes just another chosen one" is replacing one bad cliche with a even worse cliche.

[Devonix]

Those million dudes that were fighting and weren't Skywalkers. They didn't matter. They're not really important to anything. Part of this movie is taking some random force sensitive and making them important.

This movie series is comprised almost entirely of people who would normally have been background characters and making them important.
A low level stormtrooper
A Rebel/Resistance Fighterpilot
A Common mechanic on a fleet ship
A Force user that isn't a Skywalker

In any other starwars movie this would describe people who die in the first 5 minutes of the story.

[Sapphire Guard]

Funny enough, I never thought Rey's parentage was an issue. No matter who her parents were, it wouldn't be such an instant power up. Anakin was literally a child of the force and was constantly beaten up by people with more training than him, which was a subversion of 'invincible chosen one'. Lineage wasn't the issue, because training has previously always been more important.

As far as Rey wanting a place in all this, that's also a question. Rey didn't want some grand destiny, not in TFA. She was offered a job as second mate on the falcon. She was offered a chance to literally take up Luke's sword by Maz. And she ran away from them both. She was handed a grand destiny on a silver platter and turned it down, because she wanted her parents. Not because they were superheroes, but because they were her parents.

A Rebel/Resistance Fighterpilot

Wedge.

A Common mechanic on a fleet ship

R2D2.

A Force user that isn't a Skywalker

Obi Wan Kenobi.

[warty goblin]

Those million dudes that were fighting and weren't Skywalkers. They didn't matter. They're not really important to anything. Part of this movie is taking some random force sensitive and making them important.

This movie series is comprised almost entirely of people who would normally have been background characters and making them important.
A low level stormtrooper
A Rebel/Resistance Fighterpilot
A Common mechanic on a fleet ship
A Force user that isn't a Skywalker

In any other starwars movie this would describe people who die in the first 5 minutes of the story.

But any other Star Wars movie (particularly the OT) would have actually recognized their deaths as meaning something. A New Hope payed a lot of attention to Red and Gold squadron getting killed off, Empire Strikes Back spends time with the soldiers in the trenches and emphasizes the importance of getting the transports out safely. Return of the Jedi spends substantial time with non-hero fighter pilots and lets them and their sacrifices be important.

TLJ takes approximately 99% of the Resistance dying pointless, meaningless deaths, and acts like it's a happy ending because a half dozen people who matter survived and they're totally gonna light a fire in the galaxy or something. If your model is that only the special people matter, I don't actually like it better just because a couple of the special people are mechanics.

[Devonix]

Funny enough, I never thought Rey's parentage was an issue. No matter who her parents were, it wouldn't be such an instant power up. Anakin was literally a child of the force and was constantly beaten up by people with more training than him, which was a subversion of 'invincible chosen one'. Lineage wasn't the issue, because training has previously always been more important.

As far as Rey wanting a place in all this, that's also a question. Rey didn't want some grand destiny, not in TFA. She was offered a job as second mate on the falcon. She was offered a chance to literally take up Luke's sword by Maz. And she ran away from them both. She was handed a grand destiny on a silver platter and turned it down, because she wanted her parents. Not because they were superheroes, but because they were her parents.



Wedge.



R2D2.



Obi Wan Kenobi.

Wedge is not important He's a glorified extra. R2D2 is the pet dog not a real character in the movies and we all know it. and Obiwan is important specifically because of his connection to Anakin/Vader.

[Devonix]

Starwars has never paid attention to the deaths of random rebel fighters or pilots. Their deaths have always been treated as less than nothing, other than a cursory Nooo. From someone as their wingman goes down. That's been a joke for decades.

[Dr.Samurai]

Those million dudes that were fighting and weren't Skywalkers. They didn't matter. They're not really important to anything. Part of this movie is taking some random force sensitive and making them important.

To what end? The series has more "random" force sensitives than Skywalkers, so why make a point that she's not a Skywalker in this way? I mean, you could literally have Luke tell her it's up to her and she says something like "I can't, I'm not a Skywalker, I don't have your power" and then Luke tells her "It's not about your bloodline, blah blah blah". I don't think anyone needs to hear that message, but if you feel it needs to be in there, this hyping up her parents and then revealing it was nothing was a bad way to do it. It just leaves everyone scratching their head.

This movie series is comprised almost entirely of people who would normally have been background characters and making them important.
A low level stormtrooper
A Rebel/Resistance Fighterpilot
A Common mechanic on a fleet ship
A Force user that isn't a Skywalker

In any other starwars movie this would describe people who die in the first 5 minutes of the story.

I don't think this is true. Like, I don't think this is a theme in the movie (beyond "anyone can use the Force"). Wedge is a rebel fighter pilot and survives all three OT movies. Han is a smuggler. There are more Force users that aren't Skywalkers than there are Skywalkers and none of them die within the first five minutes of any story. Yoda, Obi-wan, Mace, Qui-gon... all are integral to the story of Star Wars and none are Skywalkers.

Even Leia... I mean, you can say "well she was a Princess", but that didn't mean much in the Empire. Vader still captured her and tortured her and blew up her planet. What mattered more was that she was a rebel fighter.

I don't know. I really don't think that Star Wars traditionally says "you have to be special to be important" and I don't think TLJ is saying the opposite of that. TLJ does seem to have a message about anyone being able to use the Force but that was already true and seems to be an unnecessary point to make. What it does seem to change is that using the Force requires training.