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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    I read the last couple pages of this thread and was surprised to learn some of the history of the WW community here. I remember peeking in several years ago and there were lots of games going on.

    Anyway, I enjoyed my first game, though sad to die so early, so I hope to sign up for future ones.
    If it really starts up again: is it customary only to have one game running at at time?

    Seems almost necessary. I had a hard time keeping the different players straight, and it seems like it'd be crazy-hard recalling if someone seemed wolfish in game A vs. game B.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    There used to be several games going on at once, but people kept leaving, leading to more people leaving, leading to us having to reach to other sub forums to find enough players.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    ...If it really starts up again: is it customary only to have one game running at at time?

    Seems almost necessary. I had a hard time keeping the different players straight, and it seems like it'd be crazy-hard recalling if someone seemed wolfish in game A vs. game B.
    I'll be honest, I keep a spread sheet for each game, for quick reference. It helps me keep the voting record straight. I'm sure others do similar things.

    That being said, as I understand it, there use to be a limit as to how many games were allowed to run at once (I think 2 or 3 active ones at once, with a couple requiting at the same time). While it used to be that slots had to be signed up for, things have been quiet around here. This section of the forums is set up so that new threads require Mod approval, due to the original need to schedule games.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Mansion Murder Mystery has ended with a Town/Neutral victory. I'll probably start another game recruiting by Friday, unless someone beats me to the punch.
    (WW/Mafia) Prison Escape is recruiting!

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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    From what I can tell, a new game hasn't started. I have the idea of a game, but between several factors I don't have time to run it nor do I think a newbie like me would do a good job running it.

    So I'm presenting a scenario here in hopes somebody finds it fun to run.

    Spoiler: Prison Escape
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    The Prison is considered one of the most impenetrable prisons on the planet, as well as one of the more corrupt. Nobody had ever escaped. But a fortuitous prison riot gave you the opportunity. As the riot commenced, you joined with a group of fellow prisoners. You all managed to steal the clothes of guards, as well as some secreted away money, and now all you have to do is wait until power is restored and you are “rescued” and you’ll be away free.

    But, as you waited, a fight broke out as one of your number was recognized as a guard by one of the other prisoners. And not one of the corrupt ones that could be bribed, no, a legit guard. As he was beaten to death, he leaked that other guards were here as well, and the guards have weapons secreted on their persons. The power flickered, and one of the prisoners lay dead, proving the secret just uttered.

    Now you know what you have to do. You have to find the remaining guards and kill them, before time runs out and they can out you to the rescue team. Or else you will be taken out one by one by the guards until only they are left to be saved.

    As a reversal of a normal werewolf game, in this one the Town are actually bad guys and the Wolves good guys, but otherwise things are the same. And there of course could be a few Neutrals in the group.

    Also, like the last game, the Day/Night phases are done mechanically but, in-game, it’s just a few hours passing. The “Night” is when the power flickers out for a few minutes.


    Town Roles

    Corrupt Guard – you are a guard, but you were in on the riot and helped start it. And you know some of the other guards know it, too, so your only hope is that only prisoners remain. But fortunately, you know the guards’ mannerisms enough that with study you can probably sniff one out. Just a shame you lost your gun in the riot.
    During Night Phase, you can scry one person and find out if they are Town, Neutral, or Wolf.

    Guard in Withdraw – you are also a corrupt guard, but your bribes were drugs, not cash. And your stash was misplaced and your source killed, so you’re starting to feel withdraw. Like the Corrupt guard, you could usually sniff out a fellow guard, but your senses are a bit off right now.
    During Night Phase, you can scry one person. If they are Wolf, you read them as Town. If they are Neutral or Town, you read them as Wolf. If you die while the Corrupt Guard is still alive, you are revealed as the Corrupt Guard; only when both are deceased do you find out which you really were.

    Armed Rioter – you managed to secure a gun during the riot. You don’t dare reveal you have a weapon lest they think you are a guard, but you can at least try to finish off a guard when the lights darken.
    During Night Phase, you can choose to kill one person or Bane one person (including yourself.)

    Snitch – although you got the loyalty of some friends, you are generally distrusted for eavesdropping and sharing info others don’t want shared.
    During Night Phase, you can select one person. You know who they targeted (if anyone) and anyone who targeted them.

    Smooth Talker – a con man, you manage to get on people’s good side and use that to your advantage. Fortunately, this also means you have an easier time convincing folk not to shive you.
    Votes against you count as 1 less, to a minimum of zero.

    Thief – you are used to inconveniencing others, usually by taking stuff that belongs to them. It’s not as applicable in this situation as it usually is, but you think you could manage to prevent a guard from snooping around by misplacing their gear.
    During Night Phase, you can select one person and negate their Night Power.

    Blood Brothers – you and your buddy grew up together, joined the gang together, and did time together. And you’ve got a plan for the future together. But the idea of living without the other doesn’t mesh with the idea of living at all.
    The "Secret Lovers" start out in contact with each other, and can thus coordinate more easily than most other members of Town Faction, but if one dies for any reason, so does the other.

    Spoiler: Neutral Roles. These might be kept secret, so please only read if you would like to DM
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    Neutral Roles

    Innocent – you’re a prisoner like the others, but you really are innocent. And during the riots, you managed to get proof. Now you just need to survive the night, reveal it to the outside, and you’re golden. But you realize that the corrupt guards will try to stop you, since they are part of why you are in prison.
    During Night Phase, you can scry one person and identify them as the Corrupt Guard, Guard in Withdraw, Wolf, or Other.
    WIN CONDITION: survive + the Corrupt Guard is killed

    The Help – you’re not a prisoner or a guard, just somebody who was working the night shift when all this chaos started. You pretended to be a prisoner so the others would help you, but now you’re in the thick of it. At least you are used to not being noticed. And, hey, if you survive, you get a cut of the money they stole. But you know that other person will rat you out and keep you from the money, so you better off them first.
    Votes against you count as 1 less, to a minimum of zero. If you die, you reveal that there is another The Help in the group.
    WIN CONDITION: survive + the other The Help is killed

    Since the Innocent is Wolf-friendly, probably good to add a Town-friendly Neutral, but I'm not sure who to add.


    Wolf Roles

    Sadist – you aren’t a corrupt guard, but you enjoy inflicting pain on the prisoners. You took this job to get a chance to indulge your tendencies, as it’s not really evil if you just do it to those who deserve it. Right?
    If you are killed during Night Phase, you kill one random non-Wolf who voted for you the Day before (assuming anyone voted for you). If you are killed during Day Phase, you kill one random non-Wolf who voted for you.

    Internal Affairs – your job is rooting out corruption, and, wow, was today a bad day to get a call to audit this prison. Besides learning the prison is rife with corruption, you now have to lie to just survive the night.
    During Night Phase, you can scry one target. You learn if they are the Corrupt Guard, the Guard in Withdraw, or Other.

    Inside Man – you are a prisoner, but you are an informant for some of the clean guards and they protected you during the riot. You’re pretty sure you’ll get out on parole if you help them get through tonight. Your familiarity with the fellow prisoners puts you in a good position to interfere with them without being noticed.
    During Night Phase, you can select one person and negate their Night Power.

    Good Guy – you’re the one all the prisoners hope wind up as their guard for the day. You are kind, caring, and really want to help rehabilitate the prisoners. You refuse bribes and report on corruption, but on the other hand you are willing to be lenient and not always report a minor offense by the prisoners. In effect, you’re a really good guy.
    Votes against you count as 1 less, to a minimum of zero.
    Last edited by JeenLeen; 2019-10-22 at 08:16 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    I've actually kinda been sittin' around having zero ideas for what to run, so generating ideas for game scenarios in this thread helps in that regard. A few notes:

    Spoiler
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    Okay so in regards to neutrals, it looks like the plan is to have four? One wolf-friendly, one town-friendly, and two of "The Help" who are anti-each-other. An 8 town/4 neutral/4 wolf split is probably a good-ish game balance (maybe a little wolf-heavy, but that's more feasible in an all-power-role game like this), but getting 16 players can be rough. We'll see how it works out.

    The other note, if you're gonna be thinking about game mechanics more frequently, is that the Armed Rioter (or the Soldier, or whatever it's called in various versions)...any power role capable of blocking kills has to be very generally incapable of protecting the same person two nights in a row - this prevents a scenario where the AR just banes themselves over and over and is unkillable during the night. It also encourages taking risks in regards to networking, which honestly needs to happen more frequently if my experience running games is any indication of how often people try such things.


    I'll get a recruitment thread started for this game concept, and then probably in a week or so I'll also start a thread for a more...vanilla WW game. Running a standard game and a high-power game will be easier than running two high-power, I think.

    EDIT: It'll also give us some mechanical variety.

    Anyway, here's the thread for the new game. Thanks for the idea. Unfortunately as part of copypasting your thoughts, I've discovered that some rascal has taken all of your sentences and added an extra space at the beginning. You should hunt down the rascal responsible for this travesty and make them pay.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2019-10-22 at 01:32 PM.
    (WW/Mafia) Prison Escape is recruiting!

    Current Avatar (Sunny and Violet) was created by the incredibly talented AsteriskAmp.
    Many thanks!

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    EDIT: It'll also give us some mechanical variety.
    I may propose a game which is a bit off normal WW gameplay after your games are done. The description I have so far is a sort of recursive WW with 1 wolf, and two or more additional factions filled with lies and betrayal. I'm not sure how good it'll be.
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  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Caerulea View Post
    I may propose a game which is a bit off normal WW gameplay after your games are done. The description I have so far is a sort of recursive WW with 1 wolf, and two or more additional factions filled with lies and betrayal. I'm not sure how good it'll be.
    Sounds like it'll be fun. I'm perfectly fine saving the more vanilla game I was gonna run next for later if other people are wanting to run games.
    (WW/Mafia) Prison Escape is recruiting!

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  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Thread has been approved.
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    The start is a pretty good starting point.
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    flat_footed, you saved London, you know.
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  10. - Top - End - #130
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Game Idea, based loosely on the (not great but not terrible) movie Assimilate

    Starts Night 1, but because it starts with only 1 wolf (the Infected). Each Night, the wolf can infect one villager; this does not kill them, but turns them into a wolf. Game ends when wolves outnumber town and can do a forced-conversion/kill. No neutrals.

    Town is mostly vanilla, but I thought of a few powers. Powers are assigned after Night 1 ends, as it'd break the game if Night 1 ended with the Immune or The Faker being targeted, since they could just out the real infected and then guarantee a town win. "The Faker" might be way too powerful, but the like the idea of wolves getting paranoid about each other and killing their own.
    • Immune -- you are immune to infection. You are not aware of this power until you are targeted for infection during the night. You are then revealed as the Immune to the wolves, but you find out which wolf tried to infect you.
    • The Faker -- you are able to fake being one of the Infected, although you are actually immune. You are not aware of your Role until you are targeted for an Infection, at which point you are informed. You are still mechanically Town, but have access to the Wolf chat. NOTE: wolves are aware that someone could be faking, and are allowed to vote at any time to try to kill one of their own as the Faker. After death, the Faker is revealed as fake or actually infected.
    • Close Friends -- the two of you know each other better than anyone else. Whether lovers, friends, siblings, whatever, you know when something is off. If one of you is Infected, the other is immediately made aware of it. You are aware of your Role, and can communicate with one another.


    Also I have an idea of an Insight mechanic to spread paranoia. It's a bit of work for the DM, but pretty simple in execution. Something like:
    at the start of each Night Phase, each player gets an Insight into another player. The DM rolls 50+4d10, then rolls d100. The first roll is the target number for a d100 roll. If the d100 is less than or equal to the target number, the player correctly gets a hint that another player is Infected or not. If it is greater, they get an incorrect insight.
    Infected, obviously, do not get Insights.

    Example:
    Player A is randomly assigned Player C as who they get an insight about. The DM rolls 50+4d10 and gets a 60. Then they roll d100. If the result is 60 or less, A is told correctly if C is infected or not. If the results is 61 or higher, they are told the opposite.
    Thus, the 50+4d10 result is the chance that the insight is correct. Here, 60% chance.

    Might be too powerful to have both Powered Townies and the Insight system, but one or the other could be neat. Or have a power being having an inconsistent Insight, and you choose who you target with it each night but aren't sure if you are right or not. Basically combine Seer and False Seer into one character.

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    I'm generally not a fan of random mechanics or cult mechanics, but more for personal reasons than "it just cant work". Would probably wanna do some mock-games to see how well it turns out compared to normal games. Could be interesting, though.
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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    I feel like, unless the town got ahead early, it would be very hard to eliminate all the wolves, as eventually there just aren't enough votes unless perfectly coordinated.
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  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Sounds interesting. Some comments:
    • Doesn't the game just end if the Faker gets infected, since they can just look at the wolf chat and then tell everyone who all the wolves are? Definitely seems overpowered.
    • Regarding how long the game takes, each night there is one less villager and one more wolf, which means the villagers' numerical advantage disappears faster, but the fact that you start with 1 wolf instead of multiple wolves counteracts that. If you assume 14 players and assume the villagers lynch a villager every time, the game would end in 5 days, as opposed to a classic game with 3 wolves and 11 villagers which would end in 4 days.
    • What would the win condition for the Close Friends be?
    • I feel like the Insight mechanism would actually be equivalent to some flat percentage chance of a correct insight, although I'm not sure what the percentage is. (Like how if you roll one D100 to set a target number, and then roll another D100 to succeed if it's below the target, it's equivalent to a flat 50% chance of success.) Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but you might as well just say "you have an X% chance of a correct Insight each night".


    EDIT: For the Insight mechanism, you basically have
    Probability of correct insight = (51/100)*(Probability of 51 being the target) + (52/100)*(Probability of 52 being the target) + ... + (90/100)*(Probability of 90 being the target)
    Since all the probabilities are known, this works out to a flat number, which turns out to be 72%.
    Last edited by Elenna; 2019-11-07 at 08:49 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Doesn't the game just end if the Faker gets infected, since they can just look at the wolf chat and then tell everyone who all the wolves are? Definitely seems overpowered.

    The ability for the infected to vote among themselves to kill off one of their own largely balances it. It's only a guaranteed* loss if there is only one genuine infected; if there are more than one then the faker will be killed and more people will be converted while the known infected are lynched. And if the immune is told who targeted him, then it is also a guaranteed* loss if the immune is hit while there is only one infected.

    (*Not actually guaranteed, the singleton infected has a chance to talk their way out of it, causing a mislynch and buying themselves another night to spread the infection)

    The much bigger issue is how does town win? Best case scenario they lynch an infected, but then during the night a townie will be converted. Net effect is a townie dies with no change in number of infected. Town has to lynch an infected every day to keep them at one at night and two during the day, then have the infected hit the immune/faker to cause a day phase with only one wolf. One mislynch is survivable, but requires both the immune and the faker to be targeted. Beyond that, any mislynch requires the infected to get paranoid and kill a non-faker.

    It would probably be playable, but difficult for town to win.

  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    The idea of a D&D themed WW, where the characters are members of a wizard's guild... except that it turns out that some of the other arcane spellcasters have sneaked in, and are trying to take over!

    Town roles would be abjurer (doctor), conjurer (lookout), diviner (seer), enchanter (roleblocker), evoker (nightkill), illusionist (use ability of target A on target B) transmuter (transporter), necromancer (medium). Evil roles could be bard (roleblocker), hexblade (framer), spellthief (gain 1-shot of any power used on you so long as you survive it) and sorcerer (1-shot disintegrate attack allows the mafia nightkill to destroy the target, preventing their role from flipping, but sorc must make the kill).

    I also have neutral role ideas, but keeping those secret for now...

    This idea sound cool?
    Last edited by Unavenger; 2019-11-08 at 03:41 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    The idea of a D&D themed WW, where the characters are members of a wizard's guild... except that it turns out that some of the other arcane spellcasters have sneaked in, and are trying to take over!

    Town roles would be abjurer (doctor), conjurer (lookout), diviner (seer), enchanter (roleblocker), evoker (nightkill), illusionist (use ability of target A on target B) transmuter (transporter), necromancer (medium). Evil roles could be bard (roleblocker), hexblade (framer), spellthief (gain 1-shot of any power used on you so long as you survive it) and sorcerer (1-shot disintegrate attack allows the mafia nightkill to destroy the target, preventing their role from flipping, but sorc must make the kill).

    I also have neutral role ideas, but keeping those secret for now...

    This idea sound cool?
    Sounds pretty cool to me.
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  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Players are asleep post recruitment threads. [/meme]

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    After reading feedback, I agree the "Infection" game probably isn't tenable, but I'll respond nonetheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Sounds interesting. Some comments:
    • Doesn't the game just end if the Faker gets infected, since they can just look at the wolf chat and then tell everyone who all the wolves are? Definitely seems overpowered.
    I think I'd do it as no powers assigned until Day 2 starts, so the Faker and the Immune aren't assigned until at least 2 wolves. Because, yeah, otherwise it's a real early end (unless good talk to prevent it).

    Regarding how long the game takes, each night there is one less villager and one more wolf, which means the villagers' numerical advantage disappears faster, but the fact that you start with 1 wolf instead of multiple wolves counteracts that. If you assume 14 players and assume the villagers lynch a villager every time, the game would end in 5 days, as opposed to a classic game with 3 wolves and 11 villagers which would end in 4 days.
    No real comment here.

    What would the win condition for the Close Friends be?
    I feel like the Insight mechanism would actually be equivalent to some flat percentage chance of a correct insight, although I'm not sure what the percentage is. (Like how if you roll one D100 to set a target number, and then roll another D100 to succeed if it's below the target, it's equivalent to a flat 50% chance of success.) Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but you might as well just say "you have an X% chance of a correct Insight each night".

    EDIT: For the Insight mechanism, you basically have
    Probability of correct insight = (51/100)*(Probability of 51 being the target) + (52/100)*(Probability of 52 being the target) + ... + (90/100)*(Probability of 90 being the target)
    Since all the probabilities are known, this works out to a flat number, which turns out to be 72%.
    Close Friends are Town, so it's just a Power to help the town win.
    And good insight on realizing the Insight mechanic was overly complicated. Yeah, probably best to scrap it or do a flat 60% or 70%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aventine
    The much bigger issue is how does town win? Best case scenario they lynch an infected, but then during the night a townie will be converted. Net effect is a townie dies with no change in number of infected. Town has to lynch an infected every day to keep them at one at night and two during the day, then have the infected hit the immune/faker to cause a day phase with only one wolf. One mislynch is survivable, but requires both the immune and the faker to be targeted. Beyond that, any mislynch requires the infected to get paranoid and kill a non-faker.

    It would probably be playable, but difficult for town to win.
    I think this is the big issue I had overlooked. I figured the small number of wolves balanced it well enough, but I see that there'd eventually (and possibly early-on) be at tipping point where the wolves would win unless the town gets lucky. Maybe, if I try to run something like this eventually, I'd just give several players a 100% Insight power. Basically spend time with somebody to figure out if they're infected or not. Then it just comes to if you can convince the rest of the town or not that you're being honest.


    EDIT: the LIST keyword really broke my post in some interesting ways. Fixed now.
    Last edited by JeenLeen; Yesterday at 03:12 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XI): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Prison Escape has ended in a victory for Town, and two of the four neutrals.
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