The Legitimately Playable Construct Master

[RoboEmperor]

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[magicalmagicman]

You do realize that you're using free wishes right? It's a bit hilarious for me to see someone come up with another form of free wishes never seen on the forums before. Well done!

This is the first multiclass build with no theurge or accelerated spellcasting progression I've seen that is broken. Sorcerer Artificer, what the hell lol.

Few suggestions, first I suggest you combine your two level drain combos into one section at the end of the build. Their existence is kind of ruining your post.

Second, by giving up magical artisan:scribe scroll and your 8th artificer level you can become a sylph at level 12 instead of 13 and be a non-epic character.

Third, both the fabricate and level drain method is blatant RAW abuse, but seeing how the fabricate one is significantly less dubious especially since XP used as spell components cannot be restored by spells, which puts a wrench inside the whole level drain method, I'd suggest you just devote your build entirely to the fabricate method and just mention the level drain method in the back somewhere.

Other than that good work!

[magicalmagicman]

You just need two things to be "wealthless".
1. Extended Major Creation.
2. Liquid Pain.

Artificers have access to extended major creation. At 14. You can have two 6th level infusion slots either by hitting level 15 or creating 5 scrolls of wish and increasing your INT by 5 while putting your 3 ability points into it.
Liquid Pain can be crafted with 16xp by using the divine crusader list.

So as long as you have 16xp in your craft reserve, you don't need sorcerer levels. If you don't then you can grab distilled joy from the Sylph's sorcerer spellcasting.

The advantage of doing this instead of what you're doing is that it's easier to sell to DMs. A 15th level artificer turning into a sylph or protectar is far more acceptable than a 7th level artificer combining 5 levels of sorcerer with a monster's spellcasting which leads to multiclass xp debates and might brand you as someone gaming the system.

[magicalmagicman]

As you requested, here is a wealthless artificer that is not convoluted and has less than ECL 20. Mine is ECL 18.

Artificer13
Ability Scores
25 Point Buy
STR - 8
DEX - 8
CON - 14
INT -15 - stop at 16 at 4.
WIS - 13
CHA - 14 - get to 16 by 12

1 Least Dragonmark: Mark of Making
1H Otherworldly
3 Assume Supernatural Ability:Animate Object
4A Extraordinary Artisan
6 Exceptional Artisan
8A Legendary Artisan
9 Construct Grafter
12 Magical Artisan Scribe Scroll
12A Extend Spell

The Wealthless Artificer Kit
Warforged Components of...
Phylactery of Change: 22,400gp
Schema #1: Holy Transformation at CL7 22,400gp
Schema #2: Mount at CL7 10,400gp
Schema #3: Contagion at CL3 7,200gp
Schema #4: Liquid Pain at CL4 12,800gp
Schema #5: Major Creation at CL13 52,000gp, x2
Total Cost: 179,200gp

Couldn't get below 13 because of freaking UMD and Major Creation. CL13 is required for 2 day+ duration when extended with metamagic scroll. Notice how I don't have Eschew Materials to "bypass the argument" as you requested. In order to not use eagle's splendor and skill enhancement because they use material components I grabbed Skill Focus:UMD.

UMD: 10 (take 10) + 16 (ranks) + 3 (charisma) = 29 for CL9 wish.


At level 13 craft a phylactery of change as a warforged component for 8,400gp.
Then use a scroll of wish to improve said warforged component with 6 minors schemas for 17,544xp.
Craft the Wakeful Mind and Heart of Steel construct grafts.
Embed/bond the warforged component into the heart of steel graft and then apply the graft. The component is embedded deep inside you. You still have to do a UMD25 every hour to emulate a race to use them though.
Craft a scroll of Embrace the Dark Chaos and swap out the Otherworldly feat for Otherworldly Countenance (CHA15). You are now unusually beautiful, and a humanoid.
Finally use a scroll of wish to apply the ghost template. You are now immortal, eternally youthful, and wealthless. Your components cannot be stolen because, like you said in my thread, when you hit 0 hp you are destoryed and reformed 2d4 days later.

Build is single class, no associated class levels, or RHD stuff, uses less books, and 2 levels lower than what you had previously.

[magicalmagicman]

Concurrent Infusions is a 4th level infusion that lets you ignore Spell Storing Item's xp cost. Combine it with Metamagic Item, a 3rd level infusion, you actually don't need warforged components.

Persistent Spell on a Spell Storing Item of Alter Self via Metamagic Item will let you animate objects at will.
Concurrent Infusions can replicate Liquid Pain, Mount, and Contagion.
You can cast fabricate and extended major creation yourself.

All you need is Eschew Materials, Extend Spell, and Persistent Spell.

Artificer14
1 Least Dragonmark: Mark of Making
1H Otherworldly
3 Assume Supernatural Ability:Animate Object
4A Extraordinary Artisan
6 Eschew Materials
8A Extend Spell
9 Persistent Spell
12 Exceptional Artisan
12A Legendary Artisan

Create a scroll of major creation in one day that lasts 28 hours, and the next day use metamagic scroll to cast an extended major creation for 56 hours and use your one 6th level infusion slot to do the same. Alternatively, just be 15th level.

[magicalmagicman]

It seems you cannot ever leave planar binding behind.

Welp, I don't think I can beat wealth independence by level 9, so good job.

Good point about fabricate. I think you might be right that you can only make 1 dose of liquid pain per casting.

[magicalmagicman]

I noticed you added a Hellfire Golem feat build at the end of the section. Does this mean you're no longer going to go Hellfire Engine?

Also could you explain your feat choices? Why are you getting archery feats?

[magicalmagicman]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you only get 4 attacks from BAB. Maximum. Look at Solar, it has BAB of +22 yet only 4 attacks. It's not an oversight. Normal PCs no longer get BAB from classes at epic levels but instead get Epic Attack Bonus. Monsters on the other hand to get BAB but again it caps out at 4 attacks a round.

With Perfect Two Weapon Fighting you are restricted to 8 attacks a round. So that's 68 damage a round. If you use Javelins it's 1d8+15 = 19.5 average damage per hit. 19.5 x 8 = 156 damage a round. Maximum.

I suggest you grab the Power Throw Feat which is Power Attack for thrown weapons. It has Brutal Throw as a prerequisite which lets you use your STR mod for thrown weapons instead of your DEX mod. Both are from complete adventurer.

I found this thread. Maybe give it a read.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...dless-Javelins

If you're going to be hurling javelins, perhaps a different construct might be better? One with more hd?

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think your writeup is interesting, and it's nice and clear, which is important for these tricks. Your arguments supporting "constructs are magic items" and "scroll-scribing materials are nonmagical" aren't technically sound RAW (I think), but convincing RAI, so I agree with you anyway. Kudos, also to magicalmagicman.


Dragon #327 has an 8000 gp construct addition that grants any newly-crafted construct an Intelligence score equal to half your caster level. Another addition grants the construct two additional arms and corresponding slam attacks. The suggestion is that the latter can be applied multiple times, too, so if you want a hellfire hecatoncheiric golem, go nuts... .

[unseenmage]

...

Dragon #327 has an 8000 gp construct addition that grants any newly-crafted construct an Intelligence score equal to half your caster level. Another addition grants the construct two additional arms and corresponding slam attacks. The suggestion is that the latter can be applied multiple times, too, so if you want a hellfire hecatoncheiric golem, go nuts... .

Alternatively, Awaken Construct plus Greater Humanoid Essence plus your choice of indefinite enslavement methods could also not you an intelligent Construct minion.

The mind-affecting enslavement method will persist after the Construct regains its proper type because if changing type made spells stop working then the Greater Humanoid Essence spell itself would cease functioning as soon as it changed the Construct into a Humanoid.

[magicalmagicman]

I think your writeup is interesting, and it's nice and clear, which is important for these tricks. Your arguments supporting "constructs are magic items" and "scroll-scribing materials are nonmagical" aren't technically sound RAW (I think), but convincing RAI, so I agree with you anyway. Kudos, also to magicalmagicman.

Thanks! Though i didn't do anything for the Major Creation thing. It was all someonenoone11 and gogogome.

Seems like someonenoone11 change his name to RoboEmperor? Didn't know you could change your name on this site.

Dragon #327 has an 8000 gp construct addition that grants any newly-crafted construct an Intelligence score equal to half your caster level. Another addition grants the construct two additional arms and corresponding slam attacks. The suggestion is that the latter can be applied multiple times, too, so if you want a hellfire hecatoncheiric golem, go nuts... .

Alternatively, Awaken Construct plus Greater Humanoid Essence plus your choice of indefinite enslavement methods could also not you an intelligent Construct minion.

The mind-affecting enslavement method will persist after the Construct regains its proper type because if changing type made spells stop working then the Greater Humanoid Essence spell itself would cease functioning as soon as it changed the Construct into a Humanoid.

I wonder which construct would be the best for Javelin throwing if these methods were viable or allowed? AFAIK only the Fiend Folio golems have immunity to supernatural effects.

[unseenmage]

...

I wonder which construct would be the best for Javelin throwing if these methods were viable or allowed? AFAIK only the Fiend Folio golems have immunity to supernatural effects.

Likely either the one with the highest Dex and most affordable HD to Market Price comparison - OR - a Brass Golem/Caryatid Column with their built in weapon replaced with a returning javelin or spear of some kind that's been enchanted to its max.

[magicalmagicman]

Likely either the one with the highest Dex and most affordable HD to Market Price comparison - OR - a Brass Golem/Caryatid Column with their built in weapon replaced with a returning javelin or spear of some kind that's been enchanted to its max.

I don't think a higher dex matters when your BAB is at like 40 or 50. I think the question here is, is all the miscellaneous features like flight, fast healing, breath weapon, and such worth being vulnerable to supernatural effects? Because that's really the only thing the Fiend Folio golems have going here.

On one hand it makes them immune to virtually everything including dragon breath weapons. On the other hand, their stats, SLAs, and special attacks aren't something to brag about.

[OgresAreCute]

I don't think a higher dex matters when your BAB is at like 40 or 50. I think the question here is, is all the miscellaneous features like flight, fast healing, breath weapon, and such worth being vulnerable to supernatural effects? Because that's really the only thing the Fiend Folio golems have going here.

On one hand it makes them immune to virtually everything including dragon breath weapons. On the other hand, their stats, SLAs, and special attacks aren't something to brag about.

Would be more worthwhile for a "normal" construct master, but if you can replace your golem any time by spending a day or two and a chunk of XP scribing a scroll of wish, keeping your golem isn't as important as it normally would be. If it dies, it isn't the end of the world.

[Menzath]

As a side note I did a build similar to yours(but without the golems) and I found a few things incredibly useful.

One is this web content.
http://archive.wizards.com/default.a...d/we/20060526a

Two, making a staff with the spell body outside body and persisting/extending it.

And three, a feat(exceptional artisan) and one level of the terrible class, maester(requires being a gnome)

The above combo allows you to craft any scroll in a single day or two. And use the xp from your Body clones.
The biggest thing is you have to craft that staff first, but once you do, your effective available xp to craft with snowballs to the extreme very fast.

And for those who are disallowed web content, there is a way to use xp from a demon in one of the fiendish codex books, but it can "corrupt" the item and other junk.

[Menzath]

The XP cost is not something you can shrug off though (a max hd Hellfire Golem costs over 50,000xp) and because you can't pay so much xp so that you lose a level it becomes a headache.



If the DM doesn't have problem with infinite crafting xp i think casting fabricate on Liquid Pain is a lot more easier, straight forward, and feels a lot less like a shenanigan. Same with Thought Bottles.

The Demon method you're thinking of reduces the crafting xp by half. It doesn't eliminate it.

Yeah, I hear you on that. This was just something I came up with for "quick" crafting in a single turn, I wanted to see if I could make the multiverse filled with my clones in a single turn, and destroy them all as well in that same turn.

Turns out you can, but it's very much a shenanigan, and quite convoluted.

[Endarire]

The proposed builds above are nuts, like watching world records being set. This is still a good thing. Alleluia!

[ben-zayb]

Why not use Improved Manyshot to break the BAB cap on your projectiles? Does your machine gun theme restrict you to not using something like Hank's Energy Bow?

EDIT: Putting the Splitting enhancement doubles your projectiles on the Energy Bow. BTW, you can also "Power Attack" with that bow

[ben-zayb]

You can't put weapon enchantments on the glove of endless javelins because it's not a weapon, it's a wondrous item that makes weapons.

edit:Manyshot is bow exclusive. The Hellfire Golem is thrown weapon exclusive because it's built around the gloves of endless javelins, for the +str modifier to damage, and to be able to two-weapon fight with it which gives +4 attacks a round. Maybe I should switch to bows. Something to think about.

Here's the link for Hank's Energy Bow. It also adds STR to damage rolls, and enchanting it further with the Splitting property would give it way more projectile than the 4 offhand attacks you get from the Gloves of Endless Javelin. It also has the perks of having ammunitions made out of pure force (no miss chance on incorporeal, at the least). Lastly, you can sort of make "Power Attack" with it.