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2018-09-07, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
The way my player did it was to move, then use an action to have a reaction to falling. I suppose it depends on whether you want to play it the straight way from Xanathar's guide, where you fall... what was it? 500 feet instantly? or if you want to play a little more dramatic and fun.
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2018-09-07, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
Anyways, I figure that the best way I can do a lot of damage during a single turn is to upcast Conjure Animals as a lv. 5 spell to summon 16 wolves, then change into an Elemental come lv. 10 into either Earth or Air as they both attack two times per turn at an average of 14 dmg. per hit. The wolves are chosen for advantage on attack rolls and being able to summon 16 of them means I can do up to 140 damage during a single turn.
If The enemy has resistance to physical damage, however, I suppose I'd need to use Conjure Woodland Beings and go with Blink Dogs for only 32 dmg. + my 28 for 60 dmg total. :/"I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"
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2018-09-07, 07:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
Hi mate :)
You're spawning quite a few threads these days. Are you building a PC army? XD
On to your feedback. To be honest, I think you're completely off.
You don't have the mindset to appreciate how much you contributed.
Per your description, you are the main (only?) caster in an otherwise near-100% melee party. And apparently the Open Hand Monk did not use so much his Flurry of Blow's "shove prone" rider, or maybe you and him targeted different creatures.
Anyways.
Per your own words, you consistently gave advantage against the creature everyone was ganging upon by shoving prone. Sure, eveyone could do that, but it would cost them one attack, so a good chunk of the potential damage they could do. So it's something you were the most suited to do.
Per your own words, at least one guy rolled poorly. But did you actually track what happened? Because in practice, *any* and *EVERY* hit that your friends got because...
1. They rolled poorly on attack roll.
2. But they could roll another roll (advantage).
3. AND the second was high enough to get over AC...
Each. Single. One. Of *those* hits is damage that YOU did.
By procuration, sure.
But it's still thanks to you that the weapon attack connected, that the player could even roll damage, as poor as that may end.
So ask your DM if it's still fresh in his head, or keep track yourself next fight if you guys usually know enemy's AC for whatever reason.
That's for how much offense you actually contributed, before even taking into account Flaming Sphere.
Then on to "direct damage in your turn".
I'm honestly a bit surprised you were that disappointed with Flaming Sphere. Unless you cast it at its basic level. IN which case it's expected.
It's a 2nd level spell after all, with lower damage than comparative spells of same level because it actually deals much more damage overall when things go your way (lasts long, can hit several enemies). The flexibility that comes from "move as bonus action" and resource efficiency from "1-mn long" comes at a cost after all. :)
With that said, higher spells are usually better choices. So since you are already level 8, your go-to spell should rather be Wall of Fire or Conjure Animals as other suggested.
I also agree with Call Lightning being actually much easier to use than Flaming Sphere: no "need to ram into" or "end turns inside", and 5 feet, unless all allies are surrounding one creature, you should usually find at least "one side" from which attack. Because, disclaimer, *you don't actually need to target the creature directly*. So aiming just aside within 5 feet, from the side opposite to the one your allies are standing (with creature as reference center) fits the requirement of harm without friendly fire. :)
Spike Growth (paired with Thorns Whip or Grapple as Wild Beast) is another great tool, but require some finesse especially since it could bother allies.
Sleet Storm and Ice Storm are great mass tools to use against groups of archers or casters.
Otherwise, plain Ice Knife, or Earth Tremor and Erupting Earth are great tools, provided you can use them without also putting your friends prone ^^. But at least the Rogue should be fine, even though he's probably always first in the melee. And others may benefit from Aura of Protection, limiting the actual risk of suffering the effect. So it's really a calculated risk you should afford to take sometimes (especially Earth Tremor since lowest resource consumption).
Those could be used either as openers, or even in the middle of the fight. Not because you are a Moon Druid, with better shapes and action economy around it, are you under any obligation to wild shape ASAP. :)
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But whatever happens, you'll probably don"t deal as much direct damage as others and it's perfectly normal, and natural.
You're actually a first class contributor already, if not MVP, and each time you act smart with a spell such as Spike Growth, Fog Cloud, Plant Growth, Warding Wind, Wall of Fire, Wall of Stone, Dust Devil, etc... You are reducing threat against your party, usually enhancing their offense at the same time.
In addition to also helping them shine in their respective areas (Enhance Ability), saving their hide in emergency (Healing Words/Healing Spirit) or sparing hit dice for other times (Healing Spirit, yesterday leftover Goodberries) and sustaining them over day (Speak with Animals to easily locate food sources, Goodberries otherwise).
Your friends have the power to deal high damage for little resource consumption (except maybe Paladin, but nobody forces him to waste all slots on smite ^^) . But (to simplify, of course reality is more nuanced) they "just" have that.
You have... Everything else: healing, support, visibility control, movement control, adventuring goodies, direct AOE damage...
So letting them be the biggest damage dealers seems the minimum deal here really. :)Last edited by Citan; 2018-09-07 at 07:07 PM.
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2018-09-07, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
All that is very true. I suppose it's my 'blaster' mentality at work here. I tend to prefer damage over support effects to buff or debuff (which is why I hate the Bard class, because that seems to mostly be a support caster). My previous foray into playing a druid was a half moon druid, half light cleric who could lay down fireballs and after that in the campaign we ended up abandoning after the dm of it suffered from burn-out I played an evocation wizard and did pretty well with him on damage, but hated how squishy he was. Another player in our group played a moon druid before and seemed very survivable for a caster, so I wanted to give one a try. Since we had started at lv. 8 and are at lv. 9 after only two sessions, I'll stick it out a few more levels and try other spells and beast form combinations. Technically I could've summoned 8 wolves, done decent damage and also got more enemies prone, doing the damage I like while still benefiting the rest of the party. As for Flaming Sphere, I loved it on the 4e wizard, but it seems much weaker in 5e comparatively, at least in that encounter. The main issue was just how high the dm set the hp of the 5 (of 6) zombies we faced. I think also that if I could've used Blight, I would've have felt as if I was contributing more to the battle.
In the end, I was experimenting some in combat. I could've dismissed the flaming sphere and conjured up some animals, but by the time I realized how little damage I was doing compared to the rest of the party (mostly because the fighter/rogue didn't get to do his sneak attack damage more than 2 times at most). I mostly chalk it up to a lack of experience with the class and spells I had chosen. Live and learn. I think I'll keep Wall of Fire active as it was useful in the following battle and swap out Blight for Polymorph so I can turn strong foes into rats I can squish underfoot. I'd also prefer to avoid friendly fire as much as I can. I DID use Ice Knife once during the battle and the fighter rouge took a hit due to a bad saving throw, but it was minor and I decided to avoid using it again because it was doing too little damage. (if the initial hit dmg also scaled like the burst dmg after did when upcasting, I'd use it more, assuming there wouldn't be friendly fire when I did). I was also rolling low damage on the flaming sphere every time. Remember, the zombies didn't do much damage, but each had around 150 hp vs. our lv. 8 characters to give us a challenge. That was a lot of the issue as in earlier battles we'd had in the first session, I was doing much better as far as dmg.
I know, I know, there's more ways to win a battle, but I want them to HURT when I cast my spells at them!
(it IS an evil campaign, after all. :D )Last edited by samcifer; 2018-09-07 at 08:16 PM.
"I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"
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2018-09-07, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
1) Bullsh1t. However you might not care so much anymore if you have a reptilian brain and a lower IQ is a stronger case (in T-Rex polymorph case). You will prioritise eating your old enemies, but should they not satisfy your hunger, your old friends might look like a nice snack, and your Reptilian Brain will lack any remorse or Empathy for them. Up to debate as of what is the right way to RP a T-Rex.
2) If you don't know how to drop concentration, you wouldn't know how to concentrate in the first place, making this whole thing about Polymorphing into a Beast a Paradox. Perhaps the best way would be to let people keep their mental stats? In any case debating about it is pointless. Raw says a Caster can drop Concentration on a spell when he wishes it, and says nothing about his mental stats related in his ability to do so.
3) Ha ha ha. I just love when people make up stuff. Unless the DM makes up something, it accounts for nothing though, because that's not in the effect of the spell. If such a complex effect was indeed included in the spell, it would be in the spell description, not some obscure mambo jumbo you'd have to figure out for your own as a player. The DM obviously has the call to include such an effect in his game, perhaps to give it a "darker, grittier tone" to magic, and give some justification through this. For all you know, you remember everything, just with a diferent POV.
4) This one makes sence. However, how many people actually RP cowards is beyond me. I usually RP Scholars, Born of Dragonic Origin who have the guts to make Pacts with Otherwordly Entities who Aspire to Unravel the Mysteries of the Cosmos. Others I know play Galant Knights, honour bound to serve their Deity and their King, and Hitmen Knowlagable in the Arkane and the Art of Death, Sworn to bring down his 100 year old Vedeta with his Nemesis. I don't know people who RP cowards.
In any case, those are my personal views on Polymorph. You don't need to wory so much in actually using it.
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2018-09-08, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2018
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2018-09-09, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2017
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
You didn't say if the enemies were wearing armour or not (or if you did, I missed it), but Heat Metal would have been nice if they did. No roll for hit, bonus action to keep it going, and the disadvantage to attack rolls and ability checks is a nice rider effect. Actually, the ability checks one is very nice, because initiative is an ability check, so if you guys roll each turn, it can be glorious.
Also, your form left a bit to be desired. A Giant Constrictor Snake provides pretty amazing lock down (DC16 to escape grapple, and they're restrained) with plenty of HP to boot.
So that's 2 targets that have disadvantage on attacks, one which you've got advantage against that also has zero speed and disadvantage on dex saves, for a level 3 spell slot, your wildshape, and no real mess around on action economy other than one turn of firing it all up.
3d8 auto fire damage + (2d8 + 4) at +6 to-hit isn't amazing, and it is split between two targets, but it isn't bad considering you're debuffing two targets as well. Not super, but you can be pretty happy with any fight that you're debuffing a third of the enemies and ticking damage onto them too. You're mostly just giving your friends an easier time of it with advantage and easy grapple proning for them (which does mean that you contributed a lot of damage to the party overall). You're also Huge, so you threaten a silly amount of squares, and when you're not constricting, you've got 10' reach so you don't get in people's way.
The Giant Spitting Lizard is also a fairly nice combat form for druid stuff at CR2 (it's damn near made for Spike Growth). #1 It's not a dinosaur, it's a lizard. #2 It has a two-adjacent-targets ranged attack. Never be in people's way, or your own spikes. Unfortunately it's poison based, but it is 2x3d6 worth, which is the only animal that gets that. #3 It has a tail slap shot reaction attack that pushes stuff 10' away, zeros movement and prones them. Straight back into the spikes.
It's a very versatile creature for stuff like this. Not really applicable for your fight due to the ranged bit being poison'y, bit still. No dinos? Bring a lizard.
Also pretty awesome as a defense turret buddy for when you just want to protect a squishy with Conjure Animals. Would 8-16 wolves protect a wizard better? Sure. But would 1-2 giant spitting lizards be way cooler, slap shotting things away from the mage and then puking on them? Definitely. Doesn't slow down play as much either.Last edited by sambojin; 2018-09-09 at 08:48 PM.
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2018-09-09, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
They were zombies holding golden scepters that awoke and attacked us when some of the players grabbed them. Thy were described as wearing robes, so nothing to use HM on (which I had considered, then realized would be useless that battle. They were also resistant or immune to poison (didn't learn which, but the dm said that only poison mg would be an issue and since they were undead, I'm assuming poison would be less than or in-effective against them).
As for going Giant Elk, I wanted a high AC and GE has 14 (most forms I had access to were lower and I wanted to not lose concentration on the Flaming Sphere. I still took a hit anyways while in GE form, but held my concentration.
I chalk it up to REALLY wanting to finally get some 5e use of Flaming Sphere and wanting to keep it going. I think it would've been more useful in the next battle against the zombie horde, but wasn't really confident in using it during the following battle.
Now I know better and as we hit lv. 9, I can now go Giant Scorpion, which seems to be a much better form to use than Giant Elk."I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"
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2018-09-09, 09:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2017
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
Giant Elks aren't exactly bad, it just might not have been the battle for one that time. Watch out for the Giant Scorpion's low +4 to hit as well. Three attacks is nice and all, but it's more for hordes of squishy creatures, not big bads.
And hey, now you've got lvl5 spells. While druid spells don't have the big base damage of wiz/sorc ones, that DoT really starts to stack at this level. Yes, you get new whizz-bang or utility spells. Yes, you can double your summons with a lvl5 slot casting. But a simple lvl5 flaming sphere hitting two or more enemies is about the equivalent of a decent pally smite every turn for a potential ten turns. A heat metal is an auto smite each turn. Even the action-use spells get nice in the right situations. Others run out of resources. From about this time onward, you kinda stop having that as a problem, at least on a per-combat basis for damage.
You're right at the level where Moon Druids start transforming into good primary casters, with wildshape not sucking yet either (until about lvl11 in comparison to other melees). If it amounts to a 2-3 round combat where you got off two-five 5d6 damage "druid smites" and did some combat lock down, that's fine. You'll feel powerful. As good as anyone else at this level. If a combat goes longer than that, you're proportionately better slot-for-slot/resource-for-resource than most. And you'll just get better from here on out. Plus, it really doesn't matter too much what spells you prepare each day, they're mostly just a damage-type difference, not a huge functional difference. Zap after zap after zap, maybe with some riders.
Oh, and you get a 30-day long combat pet, a good one, Huge size or smaller. You are a druid. You can fly. For hours. You know where animals live too. It's your job. Turn into a Giant Eagle, fly off somewhere, find the biggest ugliest SoB beast you can, and cast Awaken on it. Feed it a goodberry regularly. You now have a permanent combat pet. Better HP than anything a ranger gets, can talk, is awesome. A lot of combat lock down just got made easier, and most DMs will just say "yeah, sure, it's yours. You control it. Makes it easier on me." It has Int 10, so is actually smarter than most of the rest of your party, including you. Don't worry about its HP, it's just another thing to abuse Healing Spirit with.
Talking Giant Ape (because they have hands and can chuck rocks)? Stompy Mammoth? Or just a utility beast? The choice is yours.
Having restrained effects, or just something stupid like a DC18 proning charge from a Mammoth that can do 4d8+4d10+14 damage on your side, regardless of spell slots, really evens out the "how much damage you do" bit. Don't want a huge creature (or DM revokes the right to find a mammoth or rock chucker ape)? Doesn't matter. Even a rhino-bro or bear-buddy makes you better. Giant constrictor snakes are nice too, because they can probably not be 15'x15' size for movement through passageways and stuff, but still restrain enemies fine.
Basically any awakened beast is "extra damage", enough that you're actually pretty competitive at even lvl11 compared to many other melee builds, and it's perfectly acceptable and fluffy for a druid to have an awakened friend to rip stuff apart with. Kinda mandatory in fact.
Sure, your "class feature" comes in a bit later than a wizard's familiar, but it comes in now, so go get your druid's familiar asap. Don't go silly and get more than one. Your DM won't like it. One is fine :)Last edited by sambojin; 2018-09-09 at 10:59 PM.
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2018-09-09, 11:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
If your goal is to do as much damage as possible by casting spells, then you want to be a sorcerer or an evocation wizard. You’ll have no armor, the worst hit dice of any class (d6) and no ability to heal, but you’ll do a lot of damage with spells.
But for every full caster, Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid or Cleric, your spell slots are a limited resource that needs to be conserved until they’re really needed. You can’t start burning through spell slots on every fight or you won’t have them around when you really need them, because you can’t be sure you’ll be able to take a long rest after every fight. In contrast, fighters and rogues and monks will never run out of attack actions. So for combats that aren’t that important, or that look fairly easy, you should be conserving your spell slots, relying on cantrips and letting the martial classes do what they do so well.
As a Moon Druid, you have a Wild Shape ability that lets you soak up a ton of damage, plus a spell list that includes the best battlefield control spells of any class in the game (only the Wizard competes for that title). You can’t have all those things, plus the ability to heal, and still expect to match the steady, single target damage output of a fighter or rogue without burning spell slots when fighters and rogues don’t have any of those things. If you could, there would be little reason to play a fighter or rogue.
You can actually do a lot of damage by casting spells, but, for the reasons stated above, you shouldn’t be rushing to do that unless it’s really necessary.
So there are basically three tiers of fights for you. At the lowest tier are easy fights that the martial classes are handling easily, or fights that you know are precursors to higher tier battles. In these cases, use your cantrips (or melee in Wild Shape), let the martial classes do what they do, and save your spell slots.
In the middle tier, you buff up your damage by maintaining a concentration spell during combat (e.g. Moonbeam) while meleeing in Wild Shape. This style of fighting is very well suited to a druid, does quite good damage, and is extremely slot-efficient. Often you can get through an entire fight having spent only a single spell slot. Often, the spell you maintain will not do any damage directly, but will buff your entire party’s damage output (e.g. Faerie Fire). Other players, if they know what they’re doing, will appreciate what your spells are doing for their damage output.
In the top tier, the battle against the end boss, or a fight where you know you’re getting a lot rest afterwards, you can go all out casting spells. You don’t have a lot of single-target direct damage spells, like Blight, but you have a few of them if you want to use them. As a Moon Druid however, you’re generally better off using a high damage concentration spell and keeping it up while fighting in Wild Shape. I once destroyed a massive swarm of undead (we’re talking dozens of ghouls and other things) just by casting Sunbeam, shifting into Air Elemental form, then staying out of their range while blasting them repeatedly with the Sunbeam for huge damage. Pick the right spell for the right target (e.g. undead save with disadvantage versus Sunbeam). At higher levels you’re going to get spells that put out serious damage. Sunbeam is one. Read the description of Whirlwind to see how deadly that spell is. With a 300’ range and 10d6 damage emanating from a Whirlwind you can move every round, Whirlwind can destroy a battlefield before your enemies can get into range of you. You can also upcast lower level spells and, on this point, Erupting Earth scales very well, quickly passing Fireball for damage output per level of spell slot.
Finally, a word about Conjure Animals. It’s a sort of Druid Fireball, a level 3 spell with the potential to do a ton of damage. It has a theoretically very high damage output at lower levels, though it’s significantly less effective at higher levels as you run into enemies with damage resistance (though Shepherd Druids can get around that). If you really, really want to, you can conjure a swarm of 8 CR 1/4 beasts to overwhelm a target with 8 attacks per round (16 if your beasts have Multiattack). The attack typically don’t have a very high attack roll and don’t do much damage, but the sheer number of attacks mean plenty of them will hit and the net damage will be quite high. I would recommend, however, that you not get into the habit of relying on that tactic for a few reasons. First, it gets less effective as you level up. Second, don’t waste spell slots when you don’t need to. And third, and most importantly, having 8 minions on the table at once can cause combat to grind to a halt, irritating the DM and the other players and making it look as if you’re trying to overshadow the other players. If you do this at all, be prepared to handle combat quickly. Know the stats of your beasts and be prepared to roll all their attacks at once. Save this tactic for when it’s really, really necessary. Your table will appreciate your restraint.
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2018-09-09, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2017
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
^yeah, this.
It's usually best to look at Conjure Animals as a "got a bit of extra damage in, maybe with some condition riders too" spell. We all know tonnes of wolves are good. But they're fiddly as hell to manage.
Whereas two brown bears are pretty simple. It's still a reasonable amount of extra damage. Two direwolves are simple. Two of any of the CR1 creatures are nice, and can get quite a few pretty awesome abilities going without the spell becoming a combat headache. Even four CR1/2 creatures aren't too bad. But this thing SCALES into the law of large numbers, and you don't really need that as much as you think.
It's kinda like Awaken, now you're level 9. Do NOT go overboard with this spell.
We've always found it was reasonable to limit it to "Can only have one awakened creature living at one time. Yes, you can dismiss them (they revert back to non-awakened beasts over the next week or so. We're not keeping track of all those talking spiders). You MUST look after them while awakened, even better than most people you know, or they'll leave you/attack you when least expected, and you've broken your druid vows too (no more magic/wildshape for you from nature). You can only Awaken creatures up to the same CR that you can wildshape into (or that you could if you were a Moon Druid)."
This still keeps you competitive in damage, and fluffy, and druid. Otherwise the spell is kinda broken with some downtime allowed in some campaigns. Fairly sure a CR6/7 Giant Ape or Mammoth buddy wasn't the intention at lvl9. Or a horde/herd of them, eventually. But who knows, maybe it was? You know your campaign better than I....
You'll find melee types normally have pretty min/maxed builds. With a druid, it's best to play in the spirit of the rules, and in the spirit of gameplay in the system you're playing. DnD 5e. Fast, simple, but with options for cool stuff. Because we've got some busted arse spells.......Last edited by sambojin; 2018-09-10 at 12:35 AM.
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2018-09-16, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
As an update, we had a session Friday night and while there was only a single battle against 6 stone giants, I feel like I did a bit better. I summoned 8 wolves, then bonus action shifted to Giant Scorpion. The wolves did well on the first two turns, then started dying off. I was doing okay on attacking in scorpion form as well, though the enemies were immune to poison, so that lessened my personal damage considerably and the dm saved both times he rolled (I think just to see what happened). Our monk got dropped, but he managed to succeed on all 3 saving throws. One of my wolves was hit so hard he exploded in a cloud of gore and another one was dropped to 1 hp , but managed to not get killed during the next round (he was finished off next round after that), so I feel as if I did better, even with the lower accuracy and loss of poison dmg. from the tail stings. Sadly we didn't get enough xp to reach lv. 10 like I thought we would before the dm realized he was awarding us all full xp on each encounter (and this was a deadly encounter) instead of dividing it up, then decided to roll a d20 to see if we each got full xp instead of dividing it up. 10 or higher got us full xp each and he rolled... a 9. >:(.
Next time, Gadget...
Next time."I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"
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2018-09-16, 12:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2017
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
Arrrrggghhhh. You didn't read anything, did you? Restrain-on-hit? Damage-over-time spells now being good? Giant scorpions not having either (and low-to-hit as well).
Bleh. Feel powerful. You've got a nice DM.....
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2018-09-16, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
Each attack aimed at a wolf is one not aimed at a PC. Sounds like your wolves did well, in a gory, sickening kind of way.
If the vulnerability of your minions bothers you, consider apes, who have a ranged attack, and so may be able to stay out of reach of melee opponents. They also have a climb speed to help with that. They can last longer, but it sounds like that would have been rather wasted in this particular case, given that there was only one combat encounter. Unless you count the enjoyment of having a bunch of apes along. If the DM enforces ammunition limits harshly, you can get some satyrs with Conjure Woodland Beings. They come with bows for better range and more ammo, but no climb speed.My D&D 5th ed. Druid Handbook
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2018-09-16, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
*sigh* it was my first ever chance to play with that ws form and I wanted to try it out. The wolves drew fire away from my allies, which is always good. If I had wanted to go crazy, I could've upcast to get 16 wolves for more damage. They managed to knock foes prone, so that was pretty useful too, so why the salt?
"I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"
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2018-09-17, 07:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
To add on my last comment, there are a few things to consider...
We were underground in rooms with low ceilings (catacombs underneath a long abandoned temple), so Call Lightning was unusable and they were either undead or constructs, so Blight was useless as well. Yes, I could've used Charm Monster on one of the stone Giants first, but I wasn't sure it would've worked on them or not and weighing my options, I decided to go for more attacks per turn. Restrained, or grappled as is the true name of the condition, isn't a bad condition to put enemies under as they can't move around to attack others.
Yes, I'm still learning how to play and my way of thinking is a bit limited when it comes to combat. I took this as a chance to experiment and have learned a bit more about the game in the process. The wolves proved rather useful as more targets as the giants were more worried about them than us, so they took a lot of the hits for us, adding to the overall survivability of the party. The monk was dropped because he charged off on his own and got ganged up on by three of the giants while the rest of us were dealing with the other three and the blows of the giants were really powerful, so he kind of brought it on himself. Fortunately, the dm had the giants ignore him once he was down and instead fight the rest of us, giving him the three rounds he needed to make his 3 saves to recover. The only thing I felt I could've done better was to shift back and cast another spell after the last of my wolves died, but there was only two rounds left at that point.
It was a learning experience for me, and yes, the low accuracy of the giant scorpion was a bit of an annoyance, but I was still able to get at least one hit per round. Now I know and can try other forms and tactics next time we face a strong foe. I think I'll give Charm Monster a try then..."I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"
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2018-09-17, 09:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
You mention something that's worth emphasizing, namely the ability of your conjured animals to soak up damage. Even a beast with 1 hp that dies from a single hit is still a beast that soaks up an enemy attack action that would have otherwise hit a PC. When you're up against Stone Giants, who hit really, really hard, this spell can do wonders for improving your party's survivability quite apart from any damage the summoned animals are able to do. Wolves are a decent choice against Stone Giants although, if the DM let you have your preference, I'd suggest Velociraptors. They're size tiny, so more of them can surround a Stone Giant (the better to take them down quickly), and they have both pack tactics and multiattack, so they'll be doing 16 attacks per round against their target. They don't have the knock down ability that wolves have, but that's a STR save anyway, so largely useless against Stone Giants, who have super-high STR.
As to the choice to use Conjured Animals at all, if you were facing six Stone Giants, and that constituted a deadly encounter for your party, that might be one of those situations where Conjure Animals is justified. Multiple Stone Giants attacking can drop a party very, very quickly. Having 8 meat shields there to protect your party from the first few rounds is worth a lot.
Giant Scorpion might not have been the optimal choice against Stone Giants due to low attack rolls but your options at that level are limited anyway. It does have decent AC and a lot of hit points so, if nothing else, it will protect you from a lot of damage that would otherwise be inflicted on your normal form.
At level 9, you're at a fairly low point in the Moon Druid's spiky power progression, because there aren't a lot of good CR 3 options and you're one level away from getting Elemental Form. Once you hit level 10 and can shapeshift into an elemental, you'll feel like a god, at least for a level or 2. Generally, during these low points, I tend to lean more on spells, and less on Wild Shape, but that's just my preference.Last edited by Strangways; 2018-09-17 at 09:53 PM.
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2018-09-17, 11:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
Yeah, the low accuracy hurt, but I'm really looking forward to elemental forms. Sadly, this is a no-dinos campaign, so my options are a bit limited. :(
I'm considering going Light Cleric for lvl. 11 for a few more damage options as well as the sweet spells clerics get as well as less 'pick-and-choose' nature of limited spells prepared for druids."I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"
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2018-09-18, 07:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
I would never recommend multclassing as a Moon Druid if there is any possibility that you'll get to level 20, because the Moon Druid capstone is probably the most powerful capstone in the game. If you just want access to Toll the Dead (a very strong, spammable damage cantrip), I'd get it through the Magic Initiate feat.
Last edited by Strangways; 2018-09-18 at 07:23 AM.
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2018-09-18, 09:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
Unlikely we'll hit 20. We started off at lv. 8 and there's no telling when or if the dm will burn out and well end up changing campaigns again. I'd rather go for things I know I could get vs hoping we'll make it all the way to 20. Besides, light cleric would grant access to a better range of damaging spells as i like those better. I tend to have bad luck on rolling regardless of who rolls the dice, so I prefer to avoid spells that do nothing when saved against. With most damaging spells, you at least do half damage if they save, so the spell slot isn't entirely wasted like with all-or-nothing spells.
"I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"
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2018-09-18, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
My D&D 5th ed. Druid Handbook
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2018-09-18, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
Well, Burning Hands is a decent AoE option for up close (I have 18 AC thanks to Spiked Armor + Shield), Sacred Flame would be a good ranged cantrip I've made good use of in the past. Faerie Fire increases everyone's chances to hit, Identify could come in handy as well. If I can make it to lv. 15, I could Get Fireball, which is the best damaging spell in the game. Guided Strike is a good ranged option that while I have to make a roll to hit or no damage, is of a low-enough level to not be as much of a loss, esp. with Faerie Fire active on the target. Then there's the healing options, and others,. but I'll cover those in a bit as it's rather busy at work...
Please stand by..."I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"
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2018-09-18, 10:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
Okay, sorry about that...
Other useful spells are Bane, Bless, Command, Inflict Wounds, and Shield of Faith.
Warding Flare and Radiance of the Dawn are both rather useful and fun abilities to have access to as well, not to mention the wider range of weapons as druid weaponry is... weird."I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"
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2018-09-18, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2015
- Gender
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
I'd also recommend not multi-classing as a druid, although doing so certainly wouldn't be bad. I wouldn't skip out on level 11 though as that's when you'll get your 6th level druid spells, of which there are several powerful ones.
Conjure Fey provides you with a number of entertaining and powerful summoning options (if you still enjoy summoning by this point)
Sunbeam is a great spell and very powerful against undead.
Transport via Plants, this is a campaign changer since it allows you and your party to travel long distances in a blink of an eye.
Wall of Thorns has decent damage and utility.
At the end of the day though, it's your character so do what you think you'll enjoy the most!Last edited by dejarnjc; 2018-09-18 at 11:33 AM.
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2018-09-18, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2017
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
Just wanted to correct the following misinformation:
You can't cast Awaken on creatures with Int higher than 3. This includes (assuming my app is correct):
Ape
Baboon
Craig Cat
Cranium Rat
Deinonychus
Dolphin
Giant Ape
Giant Eagle
Giant Elk
Giant Octopus
Giant Owl
Giant Vulture
Giant Weasel
Flying Monkey
Tressym
Troodon
Velociraptor
Also, the 1000gp agate consumed each time may not be trivial, depending on campaign.
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2018-09-18, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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2018-09-21, 07:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
Okay, after looking back over the list of beast forms from the MM, Polar Bear seems like a better beast option than Giant Scorpion with its+7 t hit and a static 21 damage per turn if both of its two attacks hit versus a total of 19 damage on 3 attacks that only have a +4 to hit. I think combining Polar Bear with two brown bears with an upcast Conjure Animals or 4 apes for ranged attacks would make for a decent damage output per turn like I'd enjoy. (yes, yes, I know spells are for more than damage and there's better ways to win a battle than by doing damage, but that's what I enjoy most). I could instead cast Conjure Woodland Beings for a quartet of satyrs (I ordered 4 online today) to try this tactic out and might get another 4 later on.
Not the best use of being a spellcaster, but I want a melee-focused summoner and this feels like an enjoyable route to go for me."I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"
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2018-09-29, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Druids low damage and high level enemies... Need advice
So after another underwhelming session for my character, I've decided to give him the axe. It's not just combat when I'm doing the worst, either. The overall character concept has too little going for it, he has no real connection to the other pcs in the party and you can only eat so many children before you get full, so I've talked with my fiance (who is the dm) and am going to go for a paladin mc-ing into either divine soul sorc (preferable) or hexblade (If my 4d6 rolled stats are too abyssmal) I think that character will perform better in the ways I tend to think in and I have a character concept for him (rp-wise) that will help him fit into the group better.
Thanks to everyone for the advice, but druids just play much differently than my mind works in as far as combat and his personal story hadn't even been toughed upon, so I just felt very unsatisfied playing him. I think the new damage-focused built will fit my mentality and playstyle much better and the spells will be more along the lines of the kind I enjoy more and can play more easily as I'm sadly not the most creative thinker, sad to say. :/Last edited by samcifer; 2018-09-29 at 10:46 AM.
"I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"