Results 1 to 17 of 17
Thread: Talking pets?
-
2018-09-10, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Talking pets?
Smart dogs can understand over 200 commands, and while I don't know how smart cats are I imagine they know a fair number.
With recent upgrades to genetic splicing how long do people reckon before we add voice boxes to dogs and cats? Will you be buying a talking dog when they do?
-
2018-09-10, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Location
- Bristol, UK
Re: Talking pets?
Language is (in) a separate part of the brain, it's not that related to vision or sound, though obviously there are connections. I don't think we understand the DNA of the brain very well, and identifying the language bit amongst all of that is something that will take a long time, because it's obviouly complicated, even when we do understand most of it.
The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.
-
2018-09-10, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Talking pets?
CRISPR isn't magic, and the state of genetic testing is nowhere near what would be needed to deliberately introduce new anatomical features to multicellular organisms. This isn't a case of making a protein by inserting the DNA sequence that makes that protein, and even doing that is unreliable - which is fine, when you need some of your e. coli that you can breed in a day to get it and can kill the rest off with an antibiotic (generally the DNA sequence you want also gives resistance to that same antibiotic), then keep breeding the ones you want. That's less fine when you're looking at a cat, and while it is still used (e.g. medical research where GFP is used as an indicator for changes, hence glowing cats) it's less than ideal here.
In short we don't know what steps to take, but we do know that whatever those steps are the process to do it isn't there.I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
-
2018-09-10, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
Re: Talking pets?
Imean, let's just assume that CRISPR is magic and can do this. Dogs and cats are still nowhere near us in terms of cognition. If we could make them communicate been to us in human speech, it would probably be things like "FOOD" or "POOP" or "ALARM." Not much different than how cats can use different sounds to mean these different things to begin with.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
-
2018-09-10, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: Talking pets?
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
-
2018-09-10, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
- Location
- Calgary, AB
- Gender
-
2018-09-10, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Talking pets?
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
-
2018-09-10, 10:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2015
Re: Talking pets?
What's the point of trying to figure out what dogs are saying? It's pretty easy to assume:
-
2018-09-10, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
-
2018-09-10, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
- Location
- 61.2° N, 149.9° W
- Gender
Re: Talking pets?
What I'm waiting for is the viral/CRISPER version of tattoos. You know there are people who (probably while drunk) will get the glow-in-the-dark <insert bodily fluid/ejecta here> shot.
I mean, you thought the whole "wake up from a bender, find a new tat, wonder who Cindy is" thing washilariousbad...
-
2018-09-11, 03:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Talking pets?
Going back to how CRISPR isn't magic (and neither are ERVs in general, which would be the major case for "viral") altering expressed DNA in a meaningful way in an adult organism is another one of those things we can't really do. If you were doing this to humans (and good luck getting that past review boards) you'd basically have to use egg/sperm cells, and even then there's all sorts of potential issues.
Just look at the attempts of biohackers, and how they've accomplished approximately nothing.I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
-
2018-09-11, 09:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
Re: Talking pets?
For the previous example, glowing body secretion, it would be hypothetically possible to add that trait to a grown organism. We're not talking about a new structure, only a new chemical, a bit more complex than the dystrophin gene therapy currently in use(won't bother to look it up, but I assume that luciferin's synthesis requires multiple enzymes), but not by an impossible amount. It would have to be done via a viral vector, a modified retrovirus that would target the desired secretion cells (goblet cells? renal tubular cells?) and insert the selected genes.
And in a world where people had the ability to manufacture dubious cosmetic viral vectors, I imagine there would be rubbish, dangerous ones made. Right now, with only medical - and extensively tested - viral vectors, they still insert their payload in random locations on DNA. The risk of messing up the cell is acceptable given that those are made to cure terrible diseases, and the viruses are designed to be unable to replicate on their own. An imagined version made in someone's basement could keep its viral behaviour and cause disease and/or be contagious, new proteins added after the immune system is mature could cause the body to attack the modified cells, new synthesis products could cause a storage disorder if the body can't break them down, or the sloppy genetic alterations could cause cancer.
That could make a cool story though.
_____________________
Back to the original topic: Wouldn't it be more practical to develop modes of communication animals are already able to use with their current body and brain? Would a dog be able to associate concepts with pictures and tap them on a chart? Some service dogs are trained to speed-dial 9-1-1 if their human won't get up, so they can at least master the motions. Was it tried with more casual situations? Tap the solid triangle picture to say "follow me", that sort of things?
-
2018-09-11, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
Re: Talking pets?
-
2018-09-11, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: Talking pets?
I wonder how long till you can buy a brand name dog/cat. Breeds tell you a great deal about what traits you can expect from a dog, but there are always exceptions. Clones could get rid of most of those variations (and appeal to those who just demand everything they own be "top brand").
The other thing I'd expect in the way of new pets are improved rabbits (more willingness to be picked and cuddled, less lethal constipation, less likely to use the house as a litterbox) and koalas (similar cuddliness, less stinkiness). Most of this is basic neoteny (young bunnies and joeys allow cuddling, but often grow out of it). Sadly, rabbit most rabbits are sold on Easter and don't live more than a month, so I don't expect much in the way of rabbit breeding for people not already determined to raise a "traditional" rabbit.
-
2018-09-11, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
Re: Talking pets?
Genetically engineered to spec, or cloned?
The former is still the stuff of science fiction. The path from protein synthesis to final form is way too complex for us to practically understand. If you want a gross feature like the ability to form english words, I I'd bet that direct surgery or more likely cybernetics will be possible way before genetic engineering is.
Cloned pets are possible, but remember that few labs are going to go ahead without the express permission of the owner. Trying to get around that would require getting some viable genetic material without the owner knowing, which is tricky to say the least. Lab fees are going to be pricey to begin with, and owners will ask a lot to license prime genetic material if they're willing to at all. So I don't see mass-cloned pets being a thing.
There's also the matter of ethics boards behind anybody who has the resources to do these sorts of thing. I could possibly remove a dog's voice box and replace it with a speaker with a handful of english words/phrases. Probably even teach the dog how to use most of them appropriately. Good luck getting an operating suite in order to start the work.
The other thing I'd expect in the way of new pets are improved rabbits (more willingness to be picked and cuddled, less lethal constipation, less likely to use the house as a litterbox) and koalas (similar cuddliness, less stinkiness). Most of this is basic neoteny (young bunnies and joeys allow cuddling, but often grow out of it). Sadly, rabbit most rabbits are sold on Easter and don't live more than a month, so I don't expect much in the way of rabbit breeding for people not already determined to raise a "traditional" rabbit.
-
2018-09-12, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: Talking pets?
First hit on duckduckgo was that the US spends $60 billion a year on pets, and with falling population growth I'd expect a similar number in the EU and any other wealthy country with relatively few children. Of course expecting a person to fork over the big bucks on a "designer pet" assumes that either they've had pets before (and understand just how much they cost) and/or they are sufficiently fashionable to justify forking over big bucks to keep up with the Joneses.
-
2018-09-13, 02:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Talking pets?
These expenses tend to fit certain categories though - a talking cat is a novelty, a vet trip for your cat you've had and loved for a decade when they get sick is very much not, and one of these things will pull out the big bucks much more easily than the other. Then there's pet food, which probably works out to the single biggest expense.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.