Making a Fighter who can do everything

[Millface]

My idea is that real people are not optimized. I enjoy a character who isn't just a beast at one thing. I like versatility. Also I hate bards. I really wanna play a fighter and I hate when people on here tell me "don't do it, it isn't optimized" because I have played in a party were a man rolled a stat array of 6 6 6 7 10 12 and we had an amazing time and the character was loved. He was a weak idiot character. He was roleplayed that way and we loved him. Also if my highest stat is STR or DEX I don't think my fighter will be gimped. It's super hard to gimp a fighter hence why I chose one. Also nobody in my group uses the awesome utility of ritual spells so I'm still bringing a lot to the table. I'm just not into optimization. I respect that you enjoy it and that's awesome but please if I ask not to bring it into conversation I'd prefer you not to, it just isn't the goal of the thread is all nothing personal.

Edit: I realize I say hate a lot but that's because I am bad with words I do not mean to be hostile at all, I just want to kindly point out I am not trying to harm anything (I also have a good chance I will never play this character I just wanna build him)

Also everyone who mentioned the wood elf idea I really like that build. If only it was a dwarf not an elf! (jokes)

To each their own. I don't understand it, but I can certainly try to respect it!

Can I ask where the logic comes from that has you loving versatility but hating the class that was created for exactly that? Not in an aggressive kind of way, I'm genuinely curious and might have a chance to expand my horizons here. Is it the abilities the Bard gets, or the perceived personality that a Bard would have?

How you roleplay a character has, maybe, 10% to do with it's class, if that, and you don't have to use all of the abilities present in a class if you don't find them fun to use.

It's like...If you say you want a cheeseburger, and in my right hand I have a bag with a cheeseburger, fries, and some chicken nuggets and in my left I have uncooked hamburger and a bag of bread why does the left hand look more appealing? If you don't want the fries and nuggets you don't have to eat them, just take the burger. If you decide you want fries later they're there for you. Weird analogy but I think it fits.

I realize that this isn't what you were asking about, so if you don't answer that's ok, but I might be able to learn something here if you do!

[ZorroGames]

There is a huuuuuuuge gap between 'completely optimized' and 'gimped to all hell'.

Most people who play sub-optimal are on the 'just fine' end of the spectrum.

Saved my having to say it. NONE of my Mt. Dwf. Non-martials have hurt anyone’s play. Ever.

[KorvinStarmast]

What plea? Are you saying the OP will never find anyone trustworthy in AL? I suppose you'd know better than I would. All the more reason to make contingency plans then.

You were responding to Millface, not the OP, hence my comment. As I said, I thought it was a good post.

[Dankus Memakus]

To each their own. I don't understand it, but I can certainly try to respect it!

Can I ask where the logic comes from that has you loving versatility but hating the class that was created for exactly that? Not in an aggressive kind of way, I'm genuinely curious and might have a chance to expand my horizons here. Is it the abilities the Bard gets, or the perceived personality that a Bard would have?

How you roleplay a character has, maybe, 10% to do with it's class, if that, and you don't have to use all of the abilities present in a class if you don't find them fun to use.

It's like...If you say you want a cheeseburger, and in my right hand I have a bag with a cheeseburger, fries, and some chicken nuggets and in my left I have uncooked hamburger and a bag of bread why does the left hand look more appealing? If you don't want the fries and nuggets you don't have to eat them, just take the burger. If you decide you want fries later they're there for you. Weird analogy but I think it fits.

I realize that this isn't what you were asking about, so if you don't answer that's ok, but I might be able to learn something here if you do!

I really just hate the connection with music. I really don't like the flavor at all. I like a lot of their abilities but I'm just not really able to get over the whole musical deal. Every time I play with people they expect you to be a lame musician, I really am just not into their flavor. Another issue I have is whenever I play bard I just end up wishing I was playing a warlock. I don't really have any concrete reasons, they just give me bad vibes I guess.

[Dr.Samurai]

Race - Dwarf (Mark of Warding)
Class - Fighter (Cavalier)
Background (House Agent)

Str 15, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8
Str 20, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8

Feats/ASI - Ritual Caster, Greater Dragonmark (Warding), Medium Armor Master, +2 Str, +2 Str, Squat Nimbleness, OPEN ASI

Fighting Style - Defense

AC in Half-Plate w/Shield - 23

Skills - Athletics +11, Survival +6, Investigation +8, Stealth +9, Acrobatics +9, History +8

1. Buff/support

- Thieves' Tool Proficiency, roll to investigate/disarm with +1d6 to check
- Marks enemies hit, imposing Disadvantage on attacks vs allies
- Ritual Spells and Spell-like Abilities offer various utilities

2. Do Some sort of spellcasting (Most likely ritual casting because I am not a fan of an Eldritch Knight but maybe someone can change my mind)

Ritual Spells of Note: Instant Summons, Telepathic Bond, Contact Other Plane, Water Breathing, Phantom Steed, Tiny Hut, Floating Disk, Identify, Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Comprehend Languages, Alarm

Other: Arcane Lock, Knock, Glyph of Warding, Secret Chest 1/Long Rest

3. Smash heads with a Hammer

Normal for all Fighters (strength-based), Cavalier Features

4. Be able to sneak

Proficiency in Stealth, 16 Dex, no Disadvantage in armor

(Here's my take.)

[sophontteks]

I really just hate the connection with music. I really don't like the flavor at all. I like a lot of their abilities but I'm just not really able to get over the whole musical deal. Every time I play with people they expect you to be a lame musician, I really am just not into their flavor. Another issue I have is whenever I play bard I just end up wishing I was playing a warlock. I don't really have any concrete reasons, they just give me bad vibes I guess.

I get where your coming from. Here's my take, maybe it'll help you warm up to bards.

You can flavor it as being quite scholarly, sometimes moreso then wizards. They have mastered the ability to influence the weave by understanding the process behind it rather then memorizing specific rituals. They know how a certain sound or vibration can influence the weave of magic around them and use it to cast spells.

All casters technically play music to cast spells. Each spell requires a certain series of pitches and tones to be cast. Bards just have a higher understanding of how these pitches and tones work.

Having mastered sound to the point of casting spells just hy feeling out how sounds influence the weave, bards are rare. And many have already attained some level of infamy for their performances, or some other great work. They are savants, even at low level.

Lore bards are the most studious of all the bards, easilly rivaling wizards for magical mastery.

My fav. Are Glamour bards, who can imitate fey magic with their performances, practically mind-controlling their spectators. Pretty much all of them are walking sex gods idolized by everyone they meet.

[ImproperJustice]

I really just hate the connection with music. I really don't like the flavor at all. I like a lot of their abilities but I'm just not really able to get over the whole musical deal. Every time I play with people they expect you to be a lame musician, I really am just not into their flavor. Another issue I have is whenever I play bard I just end up wishing I was playing a warlock. I don't really have any concrete reasons, they just give me bad vibes I guess.

I have exactly this same problem with Bards myself. I love them mechanically, but dislike their entertainment angle.
I would rather play them as some kind of generalist adventurer who gas picked up a wide variety of minor talents from the various “primary” adventuring classes.

Like you, I have made various fighter/rogue ritual caster/ type builds just as you are doing here.
I find this thread extremely interesting by the way.

[Sigreid]

I have exactly this same problem with Bards myself. I love them mechanically, but dislike their entertainment angle.
I would rather play them as some kind of generalist adventurer who gas picked up a wide variety of minor talents from the various “primary” adventuring classes.

Like you, I have made various fighter/rogue ritual caster/ type builds just as you are doing here.
I find this thread extremely interesting by the way.

I solved this on my last bard by stating flatly "I'm not doing that".

[Grod_The_Giant]

I really just hate the connection with music.

Luckily, Bards only have two abilities linked to music- three tool proficiencies in musical instruments, and instruments as focuses. That's it! That's all! Grab yourself a component pouch and call yourself a Factotum, or a Scoundrel, or an Adventurer, or literally anything else. If someone else criticizes you for how you're playing your character, screw 'em-- your character, your fluff.

[ZorroGames]

Luckily, Bards only have two abilities linked to music- three tool proficiencies in musical instruments, and instruments as focuses. That's it! That's all! Grab yourself a component pouch and call yourself a Factotum, or a Scoundrel, or an Adventurer, or literally anything else. If someone else criticizes you for how you're playing your character, screw 'em-- your character, your fluff.

Yes! Exactly.

[ImproperJustice]

Yes! Exactly.

Or you can make a Fighter/Rogue/Sorceror with an emphasis on enchantment, illusion, and buffing spells.

I prefer the latter, hopefully that doesn’t make me someone’s evil twin.

[Dankus Memakus]

I have exactly this same problem with Bards myself. I love them mechanically, but dislike their entertainment angle.
I would rather play them as some kind of generalist adventurer who gas picked up a wide variety of minor talents from the various “primary” adventuring classes.

Like you, I have made various fighter/rogue ritual caster/ type builds just as you are doing here.
I find this thread extremely interesting by the way.

I absolutely agree with this. I really wish were just a jack of all trades and that was their gimmick not the music. I'd love them if they were more general. They blend everything well I just don't wanna run around strumming a lute singing at my foes.

[Beelzebubba]

I absolutely agree with this. I really wish were just a jack of all trades and that was their gimmick not the music. I'd love them if they were more general. They blend everything well I just don't wanna run around strumming a lute singing at my foes.

Get your DM to 'theme' it differently. As long as the mechanics are the same, there's no reason you can't house-rule the fluff around.

Someone wrote up a psionic warrior here using the Paladin as the base, and every bit of it worked, even the turning undead (a burst of energy that harmonizes with living creatures - Undead can't stand it)

[Dankus Memakus]

Get your DM to 'theme' it differently. As long as the mechanics are the same, there's no reason you can't house-rule the fluff around.

Someone wrote up a psionic warrior here using the Paladin as the base, and every bit of it worked, even the turning undead (a burst of energy that harmonizes with living creatures - Undead can't stand it)

do you have a link to that? it sounds awesome

[ATHATH]

You can have your straight-classed fighter, your spellcasting non-Eldritch Knight, your party support, and your sneaking, all while still being pretty good.


Wood Elf Battlemaster Fighter 20
17 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Wis, whatever else.
Elven Accuracy (18 dex)
20 Dex
Wood Elf Magic (Guidance as your cantrip)
Alert
Ritual Caster (Wizard)
Shield Master

Fighting Style: Duelist

You wield a rapier and shield, have +10 to initiative, and a +11 to stealth. You also can cast Pass Without Trace to give the whole party +10 to stealth for an hour (giving yourself +21 stealth). And can cast Guidance to get +1d4 on any skill checks where you're not under strict time pressure and aren't concentrating on something else.

In other words, you functionally have either a +11+1d4 to stealth or +21 (depending on which spell you're concentrating on at the time), and a +10 or +10+1d4 to initiative.

You also have an hour-long, Concentration free Longstrider if you want to boost your mobility, which is already a bit above average for a fighter (thanks to being a Wood Elf).

You also have all of the rituals of a level 10 Wizard, which means that you can just have a Phantom Steed around all of the time, make the whole party breathe underwater all day every day, can detect magic when you need to, have a familiar that can use the Help action, etc. And you've got the full benefits of being a level 20 Battlemaster.

Your goal is to get surprise, win initiative, knock your enemy prone, and throw out 8-12 triple-advantage attacks before your enemy can even act (by contrast, the more typical 8 Dex Fighter hasn't even done anything by the time you got these attacks out). Dragon breath can't so much as scratch you thanks to your Dex, Indomitable, and Shield Master. Ambushers can't surprise you. You're decently hard to kite. You scale very well with magic items and teammate buffs. You're tougher to hit than polearm masters. And you've got all of a Wizard's out of combat rituals.

Enjoy.

Edit: Note that the build works well straight from low levels. From 1-3 you're basically the same as any non-VHuman sword and board fighter. At 4 you can leverage Elven Accuracy to boost your Dex while also letting you follow up Battlemaster trips and such with triple-advantage. From there you can take everything else in whatever order you feel like.

Actually, you'd cast rituals similarly to how a 20th level Wizard would.

Other than that, nice job!

[LudicSavant]

Actually, you'd cast rituals similarly to how a 20th level Wizard would.

I know, I usually reference mid-level Wizards because that's where you stop getting new rituals.

I suppose if I wanted to be all-inclusive, I should have said "11th level Wizard" to include Instant Summons. Either way, the point is that Wizards stop getting meaningful updates to their rituals after 5th level spells. Or, to put it another way, all the rituals of a level 20 wizard and all the rituals of a level 11 Wizard is the same thing.

[ZorroGames]

Big issue for me is stepping on other classes abilities or being “second string” to a Bard, Wizard, Cleric, etc., with an ability/skill/Spell that never gets used.

[Beelzebubba]

do you have a link to that? it sounds awesome

No, I looked through my saved links and couldn't find it.

But, really, it's storytelling.

Smite = Ki strike
Saving throw aura = aura of mind over matter
Command spell = psychic domination
Special mount = mind-meld with a single creature

You could easily work it up yourself.

[loki_ragnarock]

A fighter who can do everything? Well, you can make a fighter who can do quite a lot if you want. They get more feats than any other class, and if you’re content letting your fightyness be filled by your class, you can branch out into other things. I think the key would be picking only things that broaden you. So how’s the best way to do that? There are a number of races that broaden your base of skills, a couple of archetypes that do the same or provide a typically non-fighty set of abilities, and non combat oriented feats.

For races, the typical advice for optimization can go out the window; bonuses to traditionally off stats are only going to boost your off focus abilities, which means that just about any race can satisfy the idea of a broader fighter. But for the purposes of this post I’ll be focusing more on the races that literally diversify your skills; any race that gives a bonus skill is a boon. While there are many races that give access to spells, analyzing just tiefling variants would take a lot of effort, so skills it is.

Spoiler: Races

Show

Races:
PHB
Elf (perception)
V. Human (1 skill, 1 feat)
Half Elf (2 skills)
Half Orc (Intimidate)
Volo’s
Goliath (Athletics)
Kenku (2 from a short list)
Lizardfolk (2 from a short list)
Tabaxi (Perception, Stealth)
Bugbear (Stealth)
Mordenkainen’s
Githyanki (1 skill)

Feats for broadening your fighter simply have to be, you know, feats that aren’t focused on combat. There’s a bunch of them! Some of them are more niche than others, and some will work their way into just about any build that’s trying to go broad. Here’s a few you might consider.

Spoiler: Feats

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Feats:
PHB
Alert
Athlete
Actor
Dungeon Delver
Healer
Inspiring Leader
Keen Mind
Linguist
Lucky*
Magic Initiate
Observant
Ritual Caster
Skilled
Skulker
Xanthar’s
Prodigy
The various elf magic ones

*While this one technically doesn’t broaden you, it does make your efforts more reliable, something a non-specialist might want to consider.

And then we get to the archetypes. There are four archetypes that net you a bonus skill; Arcane Archer, Cavalier, Samurai, and Purple Dragon Knight. There is one that gives you spellcasting; Eldritch Knight. There’s probably a case to be made for an archetype that focuses on making a fighter more skill diverse, but it doesn’t really exist yet.

Spoiler: Archetypes

Show

Archetypes
PHB
Eldritch Knight
Xanthar’s
Arcane Archer
Cavalier
Samurai
SCAG
Purple Dragon Knight/Banneret

Regardless, it’s pretty easy to mix and match this stuff into a fairly versatile fighter, but there is going to come a moment where you have to make some hard choices.
Str or Dex? Dex has more skills associated, and so is likely the more optimal choice. Str does give you heavy lifting capability and athletics that other party members might be skipping out on. Hard choice, regardless, because doing both well is probably going to spread you too thin.
Int, Wis, or Cha? You have to figure out if you’re looking to make a knowing fighter, a noticing fighter, or a commanding fighter. You can probably afford to be focused on one of those to be genuinely good at, but your going to be invested enough in the physical side to force you to pick.

So here’s an example I came up with.

Spoiler: Hitomi Sato

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Hitomi Sato

Half-Elf Fighter (Samurai)
Background: Folk Hero
Str: 11, Dex:16, Con: 12, Int: 8, Wis: 16, Cha: 12
Archery Style (+2 to hit offsets lower stats by a lot.)
Feats: (4)Skilled, (6)Healer, (8)Magic Initiate (Cleric), (12)Prodigy, (14)Ritual Caster(Wizard), (16) Lucky, (19) Elven Accuracy
Skills
2 from Figher: Acrobatics, Perception
2 from Half Elf: Insight, Medicine
2 From Background: Animal Handling, Survival
1 from Samurai:*Persuasion*
3 from Skilled: Stealth, Slight of Hand, Intimidation
1 from Prodigy: Deception

Equipment: Breastplate, Bow, Rapier, Assorted Adventuring Gear
Carrying Capacity: 165lbs

Hitomi Sato is not as good at wrecking face as the legendary murderhobo Beefy McLargeHuge.

But despite her humble roots, she is one of the most reliably effective of the Shogun’s operatives. By level 4, she’s proficient in 10 of the 17 skills. She’s capable of handling situations ranging from combat and war (where Beefy Excels), stealth and subterfuge (which Beefy blunders through), field surgery and diagnosis (Beefy’s more into amputations), to group negotiations (wherein everyone hopes Beefy remains the strong, silent type.) By level 6, she’s capable of keeping the Shogun’s other operatives alive in the field - in a manner that promotes the short rests that keep her at top shape - and frees her companions from expending resources they otherwise might. By level 7, she is amongst the best negotiators in the Shogun’s service thanks to her samurai training and naturally high wisdom and discretion. By level 8, her natural piety manifests in the form of spells (Resistance, Guidance, and Bless) from the Ancestors that help her companions through difficult trials. By level 12, she nets another skill and becomes the foremost negotiator on behalf of the Shogun (expertise in Persuasion). By level 14, her long career and much trial and failure has bestowed upon her the hard won ability to shape spells as a wizard, albeit with none of the alacrity of those who’ve studied their whole lives. Still, the owl familiar has got to come in useful sometimes. By level 16, she has developed a level of reliability which has made her nothing less than the Shogun’s right hand. By 19, her legend as the most competent bowperson in the land is made manifest, as she always hits when it counts. (Throwing lucky and elven accuracy together for the best of 4d20 means that the gods themselves are against her if she misses.)

And that’s her calling card. Getting it done when it counts. She isn’t learned or formally educated, and a trivia show will always be her Achilles heel. But she’s a woman of action from whom little escapes notice. She can wage a war and forge a peace. She can snuff a life or save it.
She can: fight, face, buff, heal, save vs. effects, stealth, and provide general utility spells.
She can’t: know things, teleport, planeshift, jump, blast, handle traps, summon balrogs.

She can do a lot of things, but getting to the point of being able to do a lot of things is a slow, character building process that takes an entire career to get to. Personally, I dig that kind of slow burn character growth.

For a strength based duderino:

Spoiler: Sir Alistair Arundell of Biggleswade

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Sir Alistair Arundell of Biggleswade

Half-Orc Fighter (Cavalier)
Background: Noble
Str: 16, Dex: 8, Con: 14, Int: 13, Wis: 11, Cha: 14
Defense Style (Not getting hit while maintaining the front line is pretty great)
Feats: (4)Inspiring Leader, (6)Mobility, (8)Prodigy, (12)Ritual Caster (Cleric), (14)Actor, (16)+2 Con, (19)+2 Str
Skills
2 from Fighter: Athletics, Perception
1 From Half Orc: Intimidation
2 from Background: History, Persuasion
1 from Cavalier: Animal Handling
1 from Prodigy: Deception

Equipment: Full Plate, Warhammer, Shield, various adventuring gear.

Sir Alistair Arundell of Biggleswade is likewise not the wrecking ball that is the legendary murderhobo Beefy McLargeHuge. What he’s good at though, is battlefield control, debuffing, and bolstering his allies; those who fight in his service will likely live long lives. At level 4, he’s ensuring his allies are always prepared for battle. At level 6, he’s always where he needs to be on the field to ensure he can defend his charges by giving enemies disadvantage or allies resistance. By level 8, he’s become a natural commander, fully capable in the social arena and masterful (expertise in Intimidate) at using his authority to command action from even the unwilling. At level 12, he becomes something of a spellcaster, able to draw upon a connection to the divine to get a glimpse into the future and to proof his stronghold against attack. (The cleric rituals include Augury, Divination, Commune, and the crazy expensive Forbiddance spells.) By level 14, his fame and notoriety have caused him to travel incognito so many times that he’s become very, very good at it. By late levels, he’s focusing back on the basics of battle fitness, the better to keep his allies alive.

He can: Fight, Tank, Face, Buff, Debuff, Control, Predict, and Know
He can’t: teleport, planeshift, stealth, handle traps, blast, summon balrogs.

Again, it takes time for this broadly effective nobleman to fully manifest.

One last crack at it, because somewhere along the lines I lost sight of the actual requests of the original poster; buff/support, spellcasting, hammersmash, and stealth.

Spoiler: Zrazth the Seeker

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Zrazth the Seeker

Githyanki Fighter (Eldritch Knight)
Background Sage
Str: 16 Dex: 14 Con: 13 Int: 15 Wis: 9 Cha: 8
Dueling (+2 to hammer damage)
Feats: (4)Skilled, (6) War Caster, (8) Skulker, (12) Dungeon Delver, (14) +1 Con/+1Int, (16) +2 Str, (19) +2 Int

Skills:
2 From Fighter: Athletics, Perception
1 From Githyaniki: Stealth
2 From Background: Arcana, History
3 From Skilled: Investigation, Nature, Religion

Equipment: Breastplate, Warhammer, Shield

So Zrazth the Seeker has a few more stat bumps than Hitomi or Alistair. This is largely because he’s already got the spellcasting covered by his archetype and race; no feats need to go towards providing that basic capacity. Likewise, he can rely on his spells to provide the buffing; with eventual access to 4 spells from any school thanks to his archetype, and to two outside the normal EK restrictions thanks to his race. While abjuration does have a several decent buffs, being able to branch out to things like Haste, Find Familiar, and others adds to that. And come on, what’s not to love about a fighter who can cast Counterspell to deny the Archmage that get out of sword range free card? “Planeshift? How’s about a Kneeshift, Halaster!?” “Maze? How’s about I just break your hip instead, Mordenkainen!?” “Power Word: Kill? How’s about Power Word: Hammer Face, Abi-Dalzim?!” It’s not the best catchphrase, but he’s not the most charismatic.

But Zrazth is more than that, too. In my head, Zrazth is looking for the Silver Sword he was supposed to inherit, tracking it down to the world of the prime material you're playing in... but finding it is a hell of a quest that requires endless hours of research of Prime legends and myth to have even a chance of recovery. So by level 4, Zrazth knows virtually everything, a living encyclopedia of phenomenon natural and unnatural. By level 6, he’s learned how to blend his combat prowess and his spellcasting into a perfect unison. By level 8, he’s become great at blending into the background and squinting in dark dungeons. By level 12, he’s become an expert at finding the secret doors and hidden panels that contain the clues to his quest, and at finding and mitigating the traps that often accompany them. After that, his skills required for the quest fully developed, he begins focusing on both his hammer and his magic, knowing he’ll need both to finally grasp the Silver Sword. But until he has it, smashing all the way.

He can: Hammer, Tank, Stealth, Buff, Debuff, Blast, Control, Know Everything, Handle Traps, Brazenly Deny Archmages
He can’t: teleport, planeshift, face, summon balrogs.

Zrazth also sets up a lot faster than the other two, just because he gets total support from his archetype. As a result, it’s just easier to roll with an Eldritch Knight for versatility. And if you aren’t interested in being good at finding secret doors and traps or being proficient in every type of knowledge skill, he can ramp up a little faster still.

But people have been bringing up Bard, which does most of this from level one but better. Bards are a little broken; better casters than sorcerers, potentially better skill monkeys than rogues, optionally super effective in pitched battle, and amazing buffers. About the only thing they don’t have cornered is blasting, so it’s probably easier to make a combat focused bard who’s still good at a variety of things than a generalist fighter. This is partly due to a gap in the way feats are handled; anyone can do what a battlemaster does, but throwing an inspiration dice would violate genre protection? But also, combat oriented feats are a dime a dozen, and you really only need one or two of them to be combat effective. A goliath valor bard can probably keep up with any of these fighters for quite a long time with the right spell selections as a general combatant, and still be great at everything else.

So is it all a wash? Depends on if you want your versatility smooth and easy or gristly and hard earned.

[CantigThimble]

I really just hate the connection with music. I really don't like the flavor at all. I like a lot of their abilities but I'm just not really able to get over the whole musical deal. Every time I play with people they expect you to be a lame musician, I really am just not into their flavor. Another issue I have is whenever I play bard I just end up wishing I was playing a warlock. I don't really have any concrete reasons, they just give me bad vibes I guess.

I'm also not a huge fan of the 'musician adventurer' thing. So I ignored it. I played a valor bard who was just a particularly inspiring military captain with some magical talent. You can also pretty easily play a lore bard as a traveling scholar and never involve music.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm also not a huge fan of the 'musician adventurer' thing. So I ignored it. I played a valor bard who was just a particularly inspiring military captain with some magical talent. You can also pretty easily play a lore bard as a traveling scholar and never involve music.

It is trivially easy to discuss with one's DM the substitution of two of those instruments for other tools (brewer, armorer, thieves, whatever) Keep one instrument for the occasional "I need to chill out and play my kazoo" moments, or "I play the pan pipes to seduce the BBEG's niece ..."

[Dankus Memakus]

A fighter who can do everything? Well, you can make a fighter who can do quite a lot if you want. They get more feats than any other class, and if you’re content letting your fightyness be filled by your class, you can branch out into other things. I think the key would be picking only things that broaden you. So how’s the best way to do that? There are a number of races that broaden your base of skills, a couple of archetypes that do the same or provide a typically non-fighty set of abilities, and non combat oriented feats.

For races, the typical advice for optimization can go out the window; bonuses to traditionally off stats are only going to boost your off focus abilities, which means that just about any race can satisfy the idea of a broader fighter. But for the purposes of this post I’ll be focusing more on the races that literally diversify your skills; any race that gives a bonus skill is a boon. While there are many races that give access to spells, analyzing just tiefling variants would take a lot of effort, so skills it is.

Spoiler: Races

Show

Races:
PHB
Elf (perception)
V. Human (1 skill, 1 feat)
Half Elf (2 skills)
Half Orc (Intimidate)
Volo’s
Goliath (Athletics)
Kenku (2 from a short list)
Lizardfolk (2 from a short list)
Tabaxi (Perception, Stealth)
Bugbear (Stealth)
Mordenkainen’s
Githyanki (1 skill)

Feats for broadening your fighter simply have to be, you know, feats that aren’t focused on combat. There’s a bunch of them! Some of them are more niche than others, and some will work their way into just about any build that’s trying to go broad. Here’s a few you might consider.

Spoiler: Feats

Show

Feats:
PHB
Alert
Athlete
Actor
Dungeon Delver
Healer
Inspiring Leader
Keen Mind
Linguist
Lucky*
Magic Initiate
Observant
Ritual Caster
Skilled
Skulker
Xanthar’s
Prodigy
The various elf magic ones

*While this one technically doesn’t broaden you, it does make your efforts more reliable, something a non-specialist might want to consider.

And then we get to the archetypes. There are four archetypes that net you a bonus skill; Arcane Archer, Cavalier, Samurai, and Purple Dragon Knight. There is one that gives you spellcasting; Eldritch Knight. There’s probably a case to be made for an archetype that focuses on making a fighter more skill diverse, but it doesn’t really exist yet.

Spoiler: Archetypes

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Archetypes
PHB
Eldritch Knight
Xanthar’s
Arcane Archer
Cavalier
Samurai
SCAG
Purple Dragon Knight/Banneret

Regardless, it’s pretty easy to mix and match this stuff into a fairly versatile fighter, but there is going to come a moment where you have to make some hard choices.
Str or Dex? Dex has more skills associated, and so is likely the more optimal choice. Str does give you heavy lifting capability and athletics that other party members might be skipping out on. Hard choice, regardless, because doing both well is probably going to spread you too thin.
Int, Wis, or Cha? You have to figure out if you’re looking to make a knowing fighter, a noticing fighter, or a commanding fighter. You can probably afford to be focused on one of those to be genuinely good at, but your going to be invested enough in the physical side to force you to pick.

So here’s an example I came up with.

Spoiler: Hitomi Sato

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Hitomi Sato

Half-Elf Fighter (Samurai)
Background: Folk Hero
Str: 11, Dex:16, Con: 12, Int: 8, Wis: 16, Cha: 12
Archery Style (+2 to hit offsets lower stats by a lot.)
Feats: (4)Skilled, (6)Healer, (8)Magic Initiate (Cleric), (12)Prodigy, (14)Ritual Caster(Wizard), (16) Lucky, (19) Elven Accuracy
Skills
2 from Figher: Acrobatics, Perception
2 from Half Elf: Insight, Medicine
2 From Background: Animal Handling, Survival
1 from Samurai:*Persuasion*
3 from Skilled: Stealth, Slight of Hand, Intimidation
1 from Prodigy: Deception

Equipment: Breastplate, Bow, Rapier, Assorted Adventuring Gear
Carrying Capacity: 165lbs

Hitomi Sato is not as good at wrecking face as the legendary murderhobo Beefy McLargeHuge.

But despite her humble roots, she is one of the most reliably effective of the Shogun’s operatives. By level 4, she’s proficient in 10 of the 17 skills. She’s capable of handling situations ranging from combat and war (where Beefy Excels), stealth and subterfuge (which Beefy blunders through), field surgery and diagnosis (Beefy’s more into amputations), to group negotiations (wherein everyone hopes Beefy remains the strong, silent type.) By level 6, she’s capable of keeping the Shogun’s other operatives alive in the field - in a manner that promotes the short rests that keep her at top shape - and frees her companions from expending resources they otherwise might. By level 7, she is amongst the best negotiators in the Shogun’s service thanks to her samurai training and naturally high wisdom and discretion. By level 8, her natural piety manifests in the form of spells (Resistance, Guidance, and Bless) from the Ancestors that help her companions through difficult trials. By level 12, she nets another skill and becomes the foremost negotiator on behalf of the Shogun (expertise in Persuasion). By level 14, her long career and much trial and failure has bestowed upon her the hard won ability to shape spells as a wizard, albeit with none of the alacrity of those who’ve studied their whole lives. Still, the owl familiar has got to come in useful sometimes. By level 16, she has developed a level of reliability which has made her nothing less than the Shogun’s right hand. By 19, her legend as the most competent bowperson in the land is made manifest, as she always hits when it counts. (Throwing lucky and elven accuracy together for the best of 4d20 means that the gods themselves are against her if she misses.)

And that’s her calling card. Getting it done when it counts. She isn’t learned or formally educated, and a trivia show will always be her Achilles heel. But she’s a woman of action from whom little escapes notice. She can wage a war and forge a peace. She can snuff a life or save it.
She can: fight, face, buff, heal, save vs. effects, stealth, and provide general utility spells.
She can’t: know things, teleport, planeshift, jump, blast, handle traps, summon balrogs.

She can do a lot of things, but getting to the point of being able to do a lot of things is a slow, character building process that takes an entire career to get to. Personally, I dig that kind of slow burn character growth.

For a strength based duderino:

Spoiler: Sir Alistair Arundell of Biggleswade

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Sir Alistair Arundell of Biggleswade

Half-Orc Fighter (Cavalier)
Background: Noble
Str: 16, Dex: 8, Con: 14, Int: 13, Wis: 11, Cha: 14
Defense Style (Not getting hit while maintaining the front line is pretty great)
Feats: (4)Inspiring Leader, (6)Mobility, (8)Prodigy, (12)Ritual Caster (Cleric), (14)Actor, (16)+2 Con, (19)+2 Str
Skills
2 from Fighter: Athletics, Perception
1 From Half Orc: Intimidation
2 from Background: History, Persuasion
1 from Cavalier: Animal Handling
1 from Prodigy: Deception

Equipment: Full Plate, Warhammer, Shield, various adventuring gear.

Sir Alistair Arundell of Biggleswade is likewise not the wrecking ball that is the legendary murderhobo Beefy McLargeHuge. What he’s good at though, is battlefield control, debuffing, and bolstering his allies; those who fight in his service will likely live long lives. At level 4, he’s ensuring his allies are always prepared for battle. At level 6, he’s always where he needs to be on the field to ensure he can defend his charges by giving enemies disadvantage or allies resistance. By level 8, he’s become a natural commander, fully capable in the social arena and masterful (expertise in Intimidate) at using his authority to command action from even the unwilling. At level 12, he becomes something of a spellcaster, able to draw upon a connection to the divine to get a glimpse into the future and to proof his stronghold against attack. (The cleric rituals include Augury, Divination, Commune, and the crazy expensive Forbiddance spells.) By level 14, his fame and notoriety have caused him to travel incognito so many times that he’s become very, very good at it. By late levels, he’s focusing back on the basics of battle fitness, the better to keep his allies alive.

He can: Fight, Tank, Face, Buff, Debuff, Control, Predict, and Know
He can’t: teleport, planeshift, stealth, handle traps, blast, summon balrogs.

Again, it takes time for this broadly effective nobleman to fully manifest.

One last crack at it, because somewhere along the lines I lost sight of the actual requests of the original poster; buff/support, spellcasting, hammersmash, and stealth.

Spoiler: Zrazth the Seeker

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Zrazth the Seeker

Githyanki Fighter (Eldritch Knight)
Background Sage
Str: 16 Dex: 14 Con: 13 Int: 15 Wis: 9 Cha: 8
Dueling (+2 to hammer damage)
Feats: (4)Skilled, (6) War Caster, (8) Skulker, (12) Dungeon Delver, (14) +1 Con/+1Int, (16) +2 Str, (19) +2 Int

Skills:
2 From Fighter: Athletics, Perception
1 From Githyaniki: Stealth
2 From Background: Arcana, History
3 From Skilled: Investigation, Nature, Religion

Equipment: Breastplate, Warhammer, Shield

So Zrazth the Seeker has a few more stat bumps than Hitomi or Alistair. This is largely because he’s already got the spellcasting covered by his archetype and race; no feats need to go towards providing that basic capacity. Likewise, he can rely on his spells to provide the buffing; with eventual access to 4 spells from any school thanks to his archetype, and to two outside the normal EK restrictions thanks to his race. While abjuration does have a several decent buffs, being able to branch out to things like Haste, Find Familiar, and others adds to that. And come on, what’s not to love about a fighter who can cast Counterspell to deny the Archmage that get out of sword range free card? “Planeshift? How’s about a Kneeshift, Halaster!?” “Maze? How’s about I just break your hip instead, Mordenkainen!?” “Power Word: Kill? How’s about Power Word: Hammer Face, Abi-Dalzim?!” It’s not the best catchphrase, but he’s not the most charismatic.

But Zrazth is more than that, too. In my head, Zrazth is looking for the Silver Sword he was supposed to inherit, tracking it down to the world of the prime material you're playing in... but finding it is a hell of a quest that requires endless hours of research of Prime legends and myth to have even a chance of recovery. So by level 4, Zrazth knows virtually everything, a living encyclopedia of phenomenon natural and unnatural. By level 6, he’s learned how to blend his combat prowess and his spellcasting into a perfect unison. By level 8, he’s become great at blending into the background and squinting in dark dungeons. By level 12, he’s become an expert at finding the secret doors and hidden panels that contain the clues to his quest, and at finding and mitigating the traps that often accompany them. After that, his skills required for the quest fully developed, he begins focusing on both his hammer and his magic, knowing he’ll need both to finally grasp the Silver Sword. But until he has it, smashing all the way.

He can: Hammer, Tank, Stealth, Buff, Debuff, Blast, Control, Know Everything, Handle Traps, Brazenly Deny Archmages
He can’t: teleport, planeshift, face, summon balrogs.

Zrazth also sets up a lot faster than the other two, just because he gets total support from his archetype. As a result, it’s just easier to roll with an Eldritch Knight for versatility. And if you aren’t interested in being good at finding secret doors and traps or being proficient in every type of knowledge skill, he can ramp up a little faster still.

But people have been bringing up Bard, which does most of this from level one but better. Bards are a little broken; better casters than sorcerers, potentially better skill monkeys than rogues, optionally super effective in pitched battle, and amazing buffers. About the only thing they don’t have cornered is blasting, so it’s probably easier to make a combat focused bard who’s still good at a variety of things than a generalist fighter. This is partly due to a gap in the way feats are handled; anyone can do what a battlemaster does, but throwing an inspiration dice would violate genre protection? But also, combat oriented feats are a dime a dozen, and you really only need one or two of them to be combat effective. A goliath valor bard can probably keep up with any of these fighters for quite a long time with the right spell selections as a general combatant, and still be great at everything else.

So is it all a wash? Depends on if you want your versatility smooth and easy or gristly and hard earned.

Well. I figured this thread had died but I'm glad it didn't. Wow, just wow. I will be stealing all of this including the term Beefy McLargeHuge. Bravo. Just bravo.

[Beelzebubba]

Well. I figured this thread had died but I'm glad it didn't. Wow, just wow. I will be stealing all of this including the term Beefy McLargeHuge. Bravo. Just bravo.

This is where that came from, and there's a lot more.
http://mst3k.wikia.com/wiki/Dave_Ryder

[GlenSmash!]

This is where that came from, and there's a lot more.
http://mst3k.wikia.com/wiki/Dave_Ryder

This might be my favorite mst3k.

Edit: Also disappointing that I didn't name my current Barbarian Fridge Largemeat.

[Citan]

So I was just thinking about fighters and why they bore me. I just hate slapping things with a weapon over and over again and that's all it feels like I do. So I came up with an idea that I would build a pure class fighter who can potentially do these things.

1. Buff/support

2. Do Some sort of spellcasting (Most likely ritual casting because I am not a fan of an Eldritch Knight but maybe someone can change my mind)

3. Smash heads with a Hammer

4. Be able to sneak

So my plan is to play a fighter with the criminal background to give some rogue like abilities, give myself a high STR, decent DEX for medium armor and then boost a casting stat with a few feats and a way to buff. Now I could use some serious help with the casting stat and buff abilities. I feel like ritual caster is a decent choice for spellcasting since its lots of utility stuff my party always ignores but I have no clue which class I should take from. I also know both the Battle master and Purple Dragon Knight can do Minor buffs but I have no experience with either so I don't know which is a better choice. Also I really get that this is suboptimal but every time I play an optimized character I get ungodly bored so please don't try to convince me to play an optimized one. I am not interested. Anyway I could use some opinions on how to buff and spellcast as a fighter.

Well, not that hard.
Archetype choice
- EK: Shield and Absorb Elements help you stay alive (no use being a good support if you're a dead support ;)). Fog Cloud, Comprehend Languages and other are great utilities, but as an EK you're mostly restricted to Abjuration and Evocation, so it's not helping.
- Battlemaster: Evasive Footwork, Commander's Strike and Rally are good support abilities, especially if you want to act as an oft-healer with medicine kit or have a Rogue / Paladin in party.
- Champion brings nothing interesting for you.
- Samurai brings mainly, for you, the Persuasion extra.

Honestly if your party is a 4-man max one, Purple Dragon is the best for you.
The Second Wind feature seems not much but is still a good total amount of HP healed, to be used in or out of combat.
The "Action Surge affects another" is great as long as you have at least one Rogue (Sneak Attack), Ranger (AOE/debuff arrow spells), Paladin (smite, smite spells), Monk (Stunning Strike) or Hexblade Pact Warlock (smite spells, smite Invocation).
The added proficiency is nice.
The auto Expertise in Persuasion is *very* interesting, especially when you consider you could pair it with a Speak With Animals ritual picked from Ritual Caster feat. :)
And the "have one ally benefit from Indomitable" comes in handy right at the time when AOE targeting physical and mental states alike become common.

To add to that, I'd pick only utility feats with ASI barring one attack stat bump and Resilient: Wisdom.
So...
1. Either Inspiring Leader or Healer, depending on your stats.
2. Ritual Caster:
- Bard if you want a small but useful array of utilty (especially Speak With Animals, Silence, Comprehend Languages, Leomund's Tiny Hut).
- Wizard otherwise (you miss on Speak With Animals and Silence but get basically everything else and much more, especially Phantom Steed and Water Breathing).
- One among Prodigy/Skilled/racial-elf feat depending on your race and taste.
3. Observant and/or Keen Mind (marvelous paired with Comprehend Languages for spying)

My pick: Ritual Caster (Bard is there is nobody with Speak With Animals and Silence, Wizard otherwise), Inspiring Leader, Observant, Keen Mind.

Especially with Bard's Speak With Animals: you can now form a full-fledged animal unit to scout and/or fight unexpected encounters with you, that you can even buff with Inspiring Leader and heal with Second Wind. XD
With Expertise in Persuasion, you should be able to accomplish that unless you basically ask beasts to act as scapegoats. At the very least using them as spies, local guides or transporters should be a breeze.

That, and Silence (sneaking, kidnapping, escaping, murdering... All without a noise ;)) and the fact you still get Comprehend Language, Detect Magic and Leomund's Tiny Hut (101 of party utility) in both cases is what makes me favor Bard over Wizard.

And thanks to Observant + Keen Mind + Comprehend Languages you just have to stand somewhere to basically get any information that could ever be the slightest useful to you. XD

EDIT: oh, by the way: pick Two-Weapon Fighting Style as a Fighter: you will have no other source for bonus action anyways, apart from occasional Second Wind, and you have no interest nor means for GWM either.
This little choice ensures you stay relevant whatever weapon combination you use, without any need for feat.
If you wanted to crank a "combat" feat to round-up the "good at everything" idea, Sharpshooter + dual-wielding FS or Sentinel + sword&board + Protection FS in place of Keen Mind (admitedly this feat, when fully played, can be a huge pain for DM so if one had to jump I'd really suggest this one) would be my suggestions.

EDIT2: by the way (bis repetitae)...

Also I really get that this is suboptimal but every time I play an optimized character

This is actually wrong, your character will still be optimal: just in a different way than "just hit things". But it will rock hard and your party will love it.

But, even if your assertion was actually true, it's still your game and your friends, so up to you to decide how to play. In that regard...

I'll never understand that mindset... I understand not wanting to give up certain things RP wise or concept wise for a little bit of optimization, but purposefully playing suboptimal because you "can't have fun with an optimized character" is just... bleh.

If you want a fighter that can do everything play a Sword Bard. It's optimized and has everything you want. Like... exactly everything you want.

People don't seem to realize that playing a gimped character on purpose for your own enjoyment threatens to rob everyone else at the table of theirs. Find a concept you like and then make the best character you can that fits that concept. In your case EK or Sword Bard, not a Battlemaster that burns feats on playing pretend at being a caster.

That comment is uselessly judgemental and passive-aggressive, in addition of inaccurately assessing character concept's strength.
First, not everyone care about optimization, far from that.
Second, considering how well balanced 5e is, and how much latitude DMs have to manage a game, it should not be difficult to adjust so that everyone enjoys it.
Third, having some characters seen as "underpowered" by others may actually spawn interesting interpersonal developments between characters, so there is that too.
Fourth: in the present case, even if he picked no feat, OP's character would still be strong. A bit bland and repetitive maybe (probably?) but strong. Because 5e is made to ensure that. It would suck in many kind of situations, namely all the same situations in which an optimized GWM / Sentinel Fighter would suck at.
The scope of OP just looks in a different kind of optimization, the "versatility" one. :)

The *only* ones that will have *any* legitimacy to say whether OP's character, however way he makes it, is suboptimal... Will actually be himself and his friends around the table.
And *only* once they get around level 7-8 at the very least, and start looking behind them to see all what they went through and reflect on what worked and what sucked.

It might be a rough spot for me, it's just thinking like that that's put myself and others I know in pretty crappy situations before. Players who have to bend and twist so much to have their fun that they don't consider everyone else's, when there's literally no reason at all this concept he's going for can't be optimized without losing any of the fluff or concept he presented us with.

Like I said, I have no issue sacrificing a + somewhere to keep a character concept alive, but playing suboptimally on purpose is different.

Yeah, right.
Clearly, the guy that comes up for advice looking for a way to be good at everything (which also means "avoid situations in which I suck so hard I'm useless and a liability), features to buff others and quote Purple Dragon (the one Fighter archetype where everything screams "help others") is only thinking about himself.
...
...
This really seem like a case of "I'm using a random guy as a reflect to project my own flaws". XD

[Ronnocius]

I'll never understand that mindset... I understand not wanting to give up certain things RP wise or concept wise for a little bit of optimization, but purposefully playing suboptimal because you "can't have fun with an optimized character" is just... bleh.

If you want a fighter that can do everything play a Sword Bard. It's optimized and has everything you want. Like... exactly everything you want.

People don't seem to realize that playing a gimped character on purpose for your own enjoyment threatens to rob everyone else at the table of theirs. Find a concept you like and then make the best character you can that fits that concept. In your case EK or Sword Bard, not a Battlemaster that burns feats on playing pretend at being a caster.

I agree with this completely.