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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bellona

    Default Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Mind

    Sorry for the delay, but I swear we aren’t dead, and we’ve got a new showcase ready!

    INTRODUCTION
    With more than a decade and a half of toying around with 3.5, I’ve accumulated a lot of spare builds and ideas. While I don’t have an active game going right now, I still like to pop open my builds folder and try to refine things. Recently I decided to make a dedicated effort to flesh out some of these builds into full write-ups, and reached out to some friends in the CO community who might be interested in doing the same. In the spirit of Tempest Stormwind’s Weekly Optimization Showcase (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right?), I thought I’d showcase the end results here.

    The goal is (usually) not to show off any fancy new TO trick, but to showcase effective, playable builds and spur discussion. While each of us has a different build philosophy, in general the intent is to create something that can be played in most groups from level 1 to level 20. Again, the goal is discussion, so feel free to discuss the build, talk about other options, make suggestions or tear it all to shreds. Also, feel free to use anything showcased here in any of your campaigns—and let us know how they work out if you do!

    Right now the group consists of myself, Darrin, Akal Saris, Venger, WhamBamSam and The Viscount. Typically one of us writes up the build concept and possibly a stub, the others share feedback on Discord or in some of the shared documents we have, and together we refine things until we’re happy with the final product. I’ll list the build’s main author whenever I showcase a particular build.

    Spoiler: Previous showcases
    Show

    Buffsader (PK, ToB/Gish/Party Support)
    The Utility Belt (PK, Psionics/Stealth/Utility)


    Real life has kept most of us busy lately in the group, so I’ve gone ahead and put forward another of mine: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Mind!



    Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Mind
    Half elf. Full force.

    BACKGROUND
    So we’ve had the Buffsader, who uses war weaver on top of a martial chassis to buff out the whole party, and we’ve had the Utility Belt, a stealth-focused shaper who always has exactly the right tool for the job. But what if we need a good, old-fashioned bruiser? If the Utility Belt is our Locke Lamora, who’s going to play Jean Tannen? If the Buffsader is Hannibal, who's our Bosco Baracus?

    I’ve always loved the high-damage strikes in Tome of Battle, especially those found in Diamond Mind, but in practice they can sometimes be a bit underwhelming. They’re good, don’t get me wrong… but the numbers they put out are rarely any better than what you’d get from just full attacking, and they typically limit you to a single target. They’re still a lot of fun, and you can build a decent warblade more or less out of the box that focuses on them, but I wanted something with a bit more oomph.

    One idea that has often bounced around in the back of my head was to combine warblade or swordsage with war mind. Sweeping strike is a fantastic ability that allows your melee strikes to hit multiple opponents, and there are a number of ways that an initiator can take advantage of a splash of psionics. I have almost a dozen build stubs involving this combination in some capacity, from straightforward builds like Swordsage 10/War Mind 10 to more complicated options like Swordsage 5/Psychic Warrior 2/War Mind 5/Master of Nine 5/Uncanny Trickster 3. None of them are bad - psionics and initiators go together like chocolate and peanut butter, and the basic idea is solid enough to work with a variety of methods. That said, none of them really felt ideal, either.

    It wasn’t until recently that I felt like I really struck gold, when as a mental experiment I decided to see if I could meet all the qualifications for war mind while also fitting in all ten levels of eternal blade. What started as just an odd thought ended up quickly becoming my favorite of the bunch, with a lot of unexpected synergy popping up. There’s also a lot of fun fluff baked right into the build: the dream-training of the eternal blade lines up nicely with the war mind fluff and the splashes of psionic power that pepper the build.

    THE BASICS
    • Race: Half-elf. Yes, the oft-maligned half-elf is definitely the best choice here. Eternal blade requires elf or half-elf, and half-elf has a couple of advantages over their pointier-eared cousins, namely no multiclassing penalties and no Con penalty. EDIT: Troacctid rightfully points out that dragonborn applied to an elven subrace is a fantastic option here, with better ability scores and wings. Definitely a great choice here; it works fine on top of a standard elf or half-elf, or you can apply it to fire elf or snow elf for a boost to Int or Con at the cost of Cha.
    • Build Stub: Warblade 4/Fighter 1/War Mind 5/Eternal Blade 10
    • Alignment: Any nonchaotic, though I am partial to the old classic of Lawful Good and my writeup assumes this. (Note that while it’s not required, we’ll get the most bang for our buck out of eternal training for Devoted Spirit maneuvers if we have a completely non-neutral alignment.)



    BUILD BREAKDOWN
    Quote Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Mind
    Level Class Feats Class Features Maneuvers/Powers Notes (Click to Expand)
    1st Warblade 1 Hidden Talent (synchronicity) Battle clarity (Reflex saves), weapon aptitude Moment of perfect mind, sapphire nightmare blade, steel wind, punishing stance (s), synchronicity
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    Our focus is going to be on high-damaging strikes, rather than mobility and party buffing, and that means Diamond Mind and Iron Heart. Don’t worry, we’ll still pick up some decent utility along the way. For now, though, we start with an even split between the two schools: punishing stance is a good all-around damage boost (+1d6 on every attack is very nice at this level), sapphire nightmare blade opens up even more damage and gives us a way to hit particularly dextrous opponents, and steel wind helps us against multiple opponents. Moment of perfect mind is moment of perfect mind; just about every warblade should take it, and we get even more use out of it than most thanks to a heavy Concentration focus.

    Hidden Talent is primarily here for the power point pool; we’re going to do a lot with psionic focus, and it also qualifies us for war mind down the road. Some DMs don’t allow it in their games, in which case Wild Talent is a fine alternative. However, if it’s allowed, absolutely take it: synchronicity is an incredibly flexible power that lets us ready actions without specifying the trigger for the low cost of a single PP, and is something we can’t get access to normally through our war mind levels. While it’s not essential to the build, it’s very nice to have. Definitely talk to the DM, though. We aren’t using it in any of its more broken applications (such as using Linked Power to effectively give it a swift action manifesting time), but a lot of DMs rightfully ban it outright due to its potential for abuse. Again, the real draw is the power point pool, so any power that doesn’t rely heavily on augmentation is an easy replacements: psionic minor creation, mindlink and dimension hop are all nice choices as well.

    We’ll pick up more uses for psionic focus down the road, but even right off the bat it can be expended to take 15 on a Concentration check, making moment of perfect mind and sapphire nightmare blade almost always succeed.
    2nd Warbalde 2 Uncanny dodge Steely strike
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    Steely strike lacks the damage bonus of sapphire nightmare blade, but it’s often going to be more useful against the high-AC opponents we’ll face around these levels, and it’ll be great for offsetting Power Attack penalties when we nab that in a couple of levels.
    3rd Warblade 3 Knowledge Devotion Battle ardor (critical confirmation) Emerald razor
    Spoiler: Build Notes
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    Similar to steely strike, emerald razor is a great way to land strikes on difficult opponents. We’ll eventually pick up other ways of making touch attacks in place of melee attacks, but this is a classic, and there are very few occasions when Power Attack plus emerald razor won’t be a winning combination.

    Knowledge Devotion is a cute little damage boost. By sinking a point into every monster identifying skill, it is always worth at least +1 to attack and damage, and can often be worth quite a bit more. It also gives us knowledge (psionics) as a class skill, allowing timely entry into war mind, and has fantastic synergy with eternal blade.
    4th Warblade 4 Stance of clarity (s), sapphire nightmare blade -> mountain hammer
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    Without any way of taking advantage of flat-footed status, sapphire nightmare blade begins to lose some of its savor as compared to things like steely strike and emerald razor, especially as Power Attack will soon outstrip the bonus damage it provides. Mountain hammer (aka the Warblade’s Lockpick) is a great replacement, providing even higher bonus damage while also ignoring damage reduction and hardness.
    5th Fighter 1 Power Attack
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    A dip into fighter here isn’t the most exciting thing in the world, but we need to fit in an extra feat here without sacrificing BAB, and this is a pretty good point to nab Power Attack. If this is for a campaign starting at higher levels, this can actually be replaced with a level of crusader, but it would mean delaying Deep Impact to level 15.
    6th War Mind 1 Psionic Weapon Chain of personal superiority +2 Expansion
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    War mind is always such a frustrating prestige class: great class features, but it’s always difficult to qualify with a non-psionic base, and most psionic characters don’t want to give up their own manifesting progression. We’ve managed to circumvent that thanks to our feat selection. Expansion is our first power choice, providing a solid damage boost and expanding our reach (which will become incredibly important down the road).

    Psionic weapon is primarily here as a precursor to Deep Impact, but it’s also some nice extra damage for when we don’t need to use our focus on getting higher concentration checks.
    7th War Mind 2 Chain of defensive posture +2 Call item
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    Without a wisdom focus, we’re always going to be a bit limited in terms of PP, so the focus here is on utility powers that don’t require much augmentation. Call item is a fun little power found in the Mind’s Eye articles that ensures we are never without the item we need.
    8th War Mind 3 Enduring body (DR 1/--)
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    I haven’t spent much time talking about the war mind’s class features so far; they’re all useful, even if they’re not the most exciting things in the world. By this level we have picked up an AC boost that offsets the penalty we get from punishing stance, some minor DR and a small boost to our two primary stats that will stack with any items. Not earth-shattering, but not bad at all.
    9th War Mind 4 Weapon Focus (guisarme) Hustle
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    Weapon Focus isn’t exactly an exciting feat but it’s worth it for what it opens up shortly. At least thanks to weapon aptitude, we aren’t throwing its bonus in the trash if we ever decide to switch weapons.

    Hustle is a great power in general, but will become even better in the late-game when we pick up Psionic Meditation and can use it to regain our psionic focus as a swift action.
    10th War Mind 5 Sweeping strike
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    And here it is: the real draw to war mind. Sweeping strike is a fantastic ability, allowing us to make every single melee strike we make hit two opponents. Our focus on high-damage single target strikes suddenly expands considerably, as we apply these attacks to multiple opponents.

    There is, of course, one big caveat: this ability can only be used if we haven’t moved more than ten feet since our last turn. This, then, is why we’ve been focusing on abilities that expand our reach. Already we can get up to 15 feet of reach if necessary between expansion and our reach weapon, and we will work on expanding this even further. We can also use synchronicity to delay our strikes until enemies are in proper position, and eventually use moment of alacrity or island in time to bypass the “since your last turn” requirement altogether.
    11th Eternal Blade 1 Blade guide, eternal training 1/day Crusader’s strike
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    Ah, eternal blade. Like war mind, this is a simply incredible prestige class with some very hefty requirements, in this case restricting us to the otherwise subpar half-elf and requiring us to never lose a point of BAB if we expect to complete this by level 20. It’s all worth it, though, thanks to one of the best martial abilities in the game: eternal training. This allows us to nab maneuvers as needed, and ensures that we’ll always have access to our highest-level maneuvers.

    We’ve picked up crusader’s strike as our actual maneuver learned, pretty much exclusively for meeting pre-reqs. Luckily eternal training softens the blow of having to eat a less-than-useful maneuver, so we can still have access to things like ruby nightmare blade or divine surge. Crusader’s strike can be replaced with any of the Devoted Spirit maneuvers that lack pre-reqs but it doesn’t really matter; whatever we pick will almost never be readied.
    12th Eternal Blade 2 Deep Impact Guided strike
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    And now, with access to Deep Impact, our main damage engine is complete. Our MO is simple: pick a high-damaging strike like ruby nightmare blade, dump as much into Power Attack as we can, and pop our focus to land the blow as a touch attack, preferably against multiple opponents thanks to sweeping strike.

    We also now have access to fifth level maneuvers, letting us nab things like rapid counter, disrupting blow or one of the Devoted Spirit charges with our eternal training. Also note that guided strike gives us an alternative way to bypass damage reduction other than mountain hammer, which will be very useful as we begin focusing more on things like the insightful strike or nightmare blade lines for damage.
    13th Eternal Blade 3 Armored uncanny dodge, eternal training 2/day Radiant charge
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    Radiant charge is generally the most useful of the Devoted Spirit charges, assuming the suggested LG build-out; replace as needed if playing a different alignment. These strikes are rarely useless, though the fact that they require a charge means that unfortunately they don’t typically work with sweeping strike.
    14th Eternal Blade 4 Eternal knowledge
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    You know how a while ago I recommended taking a point in every monster-identifying knowledge skill for use with Knowledge Devotion? Now it pays dividends. This is a very sizable boost to four of those knowledge skills by the end of our career.

    Sixth level maneuvers via eternal training is a goldmine: greater insightful strike, moment of alacrity and rallying strike are all incredibly useful. Moment of alacrity can be a great way to properly position ourselves for sweeping strike: delay our turn until the end of the initiative sequence, get ourselves into position and attack as needed (radiant charge is great here for doing both at once), and use moment of alacrity to shift ourselves up to the top of the initiative sequence so that we immediately get another turn.
    15th Eternal Blade 5 Psionic Meditation Eternal training 3/day Greater insightful strike, dancing blade form (s)
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    It’s hard to argue with consistency, and there are very few damage sources as consistent and reliable as greater insightful strike. It doesn’t have the high damage ceiling of some of our strikes, but with level-appropriate items and our psionic focus, this is a really reliable way to shave off 90+ hit points from a couple of foes without having to risk mucking about with Power Attack. It’s not going to one shot most foes, but there’s a lot to be said for consistency like this. (Moment of alacrity is also a fine choice here.) Dancing blade form might seem like an odd choice when we also qualify for the amazing aura of perfect order, but it extends our reach even further, making us even better at delivering our sweeping strikes.

    Psionic Meditation also comes online this level; with our focus on standard action maneuvers and limited movement, we should be able to freely regain our focus most turns. If we do need to move and still refocus, don’t fret: hustle lets us instead do this as a swift action.
    16th Eternal Blade 6 Defensive insight
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    A lot of nice eternal training choices pop up at this level. Avalanche of blades is probably our biggest damage option, although be careful using it alongside sweeping strike, as that will give us twice as many opportunities to miss and end our sequence early.
    17th Eternal Blade 7 Eternal training 4/day Castigating strike
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    Four eternal trainings per day means we should have access to it every single encounter even on a busy day. Castigating strike may seem like an odd choice, since we won’t have the Charisma to really pump up the saving throw, but it’s very respectable single-target damage that also deals some minor burst damage even on a successful save. More importantly though, it also gives us a third Devoted Spirit maneuver, qualifying us for...
    18th Eternal Blade 8 Martial Stance (immortal fortitude) Tactical insight Immortal fortitude (s)
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    ...immortal fortitude, the single best defensive stance in the game. There are very few abilities that allow us to outright ignore death or incapacitation by hit point damage; with a successful Fortitude save, we are able to do just that, again and again and again. We also have access to eighth level maneuvers via eternal training. You have three excellent options: greater divine surge, diamond nightmare blade and diamond defense. Diamond nightmare blade is far and away the best damaging option we have, and in concert with Power Attack and Deep Impact, this is a strike that can one-shot level appropriate foes. Diamond defense is a decent alternative if we find ourselves facing things that we expect to toss around save-or-lose effects, as it all but guarantees success on any given saving throw.
    19th Eternal Blade 9 Eternal training 5/day Diamond nightmare blade
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    As I mentioned in the notes for last level, diamond nightmare blade is our go-to high damage maneuver and we’ll want it every single encounter, so we’ll go ahead and take it as a maneuver known so that we free up your eternal training for other options.
    20th Eternal Blade 10 Island in time
    Spoiler: Build Notes
    Show
    And here we have it: island in time, possibly the best martial capstone in the game. Once per encounter, we can choose when to take our turn as an immediate action, even if that means taking two turns in a row. I don’t feel like there needs to be any great explanation of why this is so incredible. Nor is this the only action manipulation we get at this level: with access to ninth-level maneuvers via eternal training, we can now pick up time stands still (or strike of righteous vitality, if that’s more appropriate for the encounter).

    It’s also worth noting that island in time is especially nice alongside sweeping strike, thanks to its ability to bypass the movement restriction built in. Sweeping strike requires that we not have moved more than ten feet since the end of our last turn. We can now move into position, attack or initiate a maneuver, end our turn, activate island in time and start all over again while already in position with the full benefits of sweeping strike.

    Spoiler: Maneuvers & Stances Known
    Show

    1- Moment of perfect mind, sapphire nightmare blade, steel wind, steely strike, crusader’s strike, punishing stance (s), stance of clarity (s)
    2- Emerald razor, mountain hammer
    5- Radiant charge, dancing blade form (s)
    6- Greater insightful strike
    7- Castigating strike
    8- Diamond nightmare blade, immortal fortitude (s)


    Spoiler: Powers Known
    Show

    1- Synchronicity, expansion, call item
    2- Hustle


    Spoiler: Stat Suggestions
    Show

    We’re a bit all over the place stat-wise, but it’s not as bad as it looks from the outset. As with most melee builds Strength and Constitution are our bread and butter, giving us power and durability (and improved Concentration checks). Intelligence is a close third: between Knowledge Devotion, warblade abilities and eternal blade abilities, we can do a lot with a decent Int score. However, while all of these abilities are useful, none of them really need to be maxed out to stay competitive.

    And for the others? As manifesting is only a very small part of this build, we can get away with as low as a 12 in Wisdom. Charisma is pretty much irrelevant outside of castigating strike, which is hardly central to the build, so that is a safe stat to keep low. Dexterity isn’t unwelcome if we’re playing with a high point buy but isn’t really a driving element.

    SAMPLE STAT ARRAYS:
    28-point buy: Str 15/Dex 10/Con 14/Int 14/Wis 12/Cha 10
    32-point buy: Str 16/Dex 12/Con 14/Int 14/Wis 12/Cha 10


    Spoiler: Skills Notes
    Show

    Let’s get requirements out of the way first: we’ll need five ranks in a knowledge skill by third level to qualify for Knowledge Devotion, as well as two ranks in knowledge (history) and eight in knowledge (psionics) to qualify for war mind.

    As for the skills that are important to the build, concentration is a must-have: max this out at every single level. To get the most out of Knowledge Devotion we will want at least a half rank in every monster identifying knowledge skill (arcana, dungeoneering, local, nature, religion, the planes). Based on the campaign, we’ll probably want to max out at least one of these; we should have the skill points to spare. Five ranks in balance is almost always a must for anyone who has it as a class skill, so that’s probably useful as well (although uncanny dodge makes it less essential for us as it does for others… but it’s a fairly minimal investment).

    From there, things are fairly open. Play up the know-it-all aspect by focusing on several branches of knowledge, branch into autohypnosis, get some social skills with diplomacy and intimidate or develop some acrobatics with jump and tumble. Even with a conservative point buy, we should be able to meet all requirements, get trained in every relevant knowledge skill and keep four skills completely maxed, so there’s a lot of wiggle room here.


    Spoiler: Equipment Recommendations
    Show

    We’ll want a decent reach weapon and a way to hit adjacent enemies. I’m fond of the classic guisarme + armor spikes combo, but really any good two-handed weapon can work. Get some good heavy armor as well; we’re not super focused on movement or Dexterity-based skills, and we do want to be able to mix it up in combat regularly. As diamond nightmare blade will be doing a lot of the heavy lifting damage-wise at later levels, anything that adds flat damage bonuses is always greatly appreciated, and will be more valuable than damage dice.

    As a melee brute, there are some specific considerations we’ll also have to make: our magical gear will largely be what allows us to deal with flight, incorporeality, hidden foes, etc. Weapon crystals can cover some of this (I would recommend just about every melee build invests in a lesser truedeath crystal and the greater revelation crystal by the mid- to late-game).

    Also, don’t forget that we can take advantage of psionic items as well: we’ll have access to the psychic warrior’s power list, so keeping some dorjes on hand can greatly improve our flexibility.
    BUILD SUMMARY
    As always, let’s start with the basics: right from the outset we’ve got all the elements of a solid melee presence. +20 BAB, ninth-level maneuvers and Power Attack… frankly, it’s pretty hard to go wrong when that’s our starting point. Defensively we have 20 levels of good hit dice and a Con focus, heavy armor proficiency, uncanny dodge, +17/+8/+4 saves (alongside battle clarity and moment of perfect mind/diamond defense to boost those weaker Reflex and Will saves), and a myriad of minor defensive abilities from war mind and eternal blade, plus a few nice healing maneuvers and the absolutely incredible immortal fortitude stance.

    In addition to all of the standard melee goodies, we have quite a few things going for us. The eternal training mechanic gives us quite a bit of flexibility compared to a typical warblade, as we can pick and choose our top level maneuvers as the encounter dictates. Access to the Devoted Spirit discipline is another strong selling point, as it opens up access to what is arguably the best stance in the game (plus some great utility maneuvers like rallying cry and strike of righteous vitality, made even better thanks to the flexibility of eternal training). We have excellent reach (native access to expansion plus reach weapon plus dancing blade form), the ability to make melee attacks as touch attacks and some neat defensive options and debuffs. Oh, and we have multiple forms of action manipulation: synchronicity, time stands still and the incomparable island in time.

    But we’re here for the damage, right? If damage dealing is our main schtick, can we stay competitive? Well, for a reasonable melee benchmark, the magic number I like to keep in the back of my head is 205. The average HP of a CR 20 is 409, and if my main goal is damage, I should be able to consistently chunk away half of a level-appropriate foe’s hit points in a single round (with “consistently” being the key word there; burst damage or melee novas are a whole separate animal). We should have no problem hitting this benchmark: even playing things conservatively (assuming a +3 weapon, a +3 bonus from Knowledge Devotion, a Strength of 30 and no other damage bonuses), diamond nightmare blade combined with full Power Attack can be expected to do 8d6+224 damage. We can make this attack as a touch attack in a single standard action, and have it hit two adjacent opponents, all without requiring any significant resources, and we can do it multiple times an encounter. Heck, we can do more than that: how about using time stands still to make two full attacks, followed by an activation of island in time to get a new turn, followed by diamond nightmare blade, followed by a move action to regain psionic focus? That’s something we can do every single encounter if we want.

    Yes, these numbers are vastly eclipsed by your standard ubercharger… but they are still more than sufficient for our purposes. Charging is much easier to shut down than a standard maneuver, and consider the rest of our defensive and offensive suite of abilities: many our strongest moves only require a standard action, we can attack as a touch attack, bypass damage reduction, get huge bonuses to saving throws with diamond defense or moment of perfect mind, heal our party, avoid death from damage, manipulate turn order and action economy, debuff enemies, expand our size and reach, boost our defenses in a variety of ways… all while still putting out more than enough damage to level a pit fiend every single turn.

    VARIANTS
    If playing with flaws, or starting at a sufficiently late level, replacing the level of fighter with a level of crusader is a huge boon. In addition to giving a major boost to low-level survivability (not that we’re a slouch in that department, but there’s always room for improvement) and letting us take Deep Impact and Psionic Meditation three levels early, doing so also means we can hit all of our Devoted Spirit requirements in a single level, which gives us way more flexibility in terms of maneuver selection down the road. This would let us expand into Iron Heart or White Raven disciplines a bit, depending on how we want to develop the build. Similarly, if we don’t plan to reach level 20 and therefore don’t mind missing out on island in time or 9th-level maneuvers, we can sneak in an extra crusader level early, delaying entry to eternal blade by a level but providing similar benefits.

    Many DMs don’t enforce favored class penalties; if this is the case, feel free to replace half-elf with whatever flavor of elf feels appropriate (although as I mentioned earlier, this build does not like Con penalties).

    ***

    And that’s that! We have a couple of other showcase builds cooking, including a decidedly devious take on an incarnum user, a singer with a deadly voice and a chameleon that really pushes the limits of flexibility. Let us know if there’s anything you’d like to see showcased!
    Last edited by Piggy Knowles; 2018-09-15 at 11:57 AM.
    Optimization Showcase in the Playground

    Former projects:
    Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
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    GOLD
    IC LXXVI: Talos
    IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    can't wait to see the incarnum class. I am loving incarnum more and more as I go over it for a lot of various builds but there's never enough essentia. can't wait to see it taken to 11.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Piggy I have the outmost respect for your builds. They are optimized but always in a way that they don't break the game. You, sir, are a genius not only when it comes to the "technical" side of DnD 3.5 but also at keeping a healthy table atmosphere because it seems to me that you perfectly know what Level of optimization a table agrees on. I sincerely hope you have a playgroup that can appreciate that.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2017

    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    It's good to see I'm not the only one who enjoys combining psionics with martial initiators. There honestly should have been a prestige class for it (one of the most disappointing aspects of ToB, really).

    As far as build commentary goes:

    Psionic Meditation comes too late in the build for its emphasis on psionic focus. Without it, your psionic focus tricks are more or less once per encounter.

    You also have Synchronicity, which somewhat obviates the need for Island in Time (an ability you're likely to never see in a campaign anyways). But that really gets at the larger problems Eternal Blade has as a class. By and large it's a class I want to like taking all 10 levels of, but it isn't as functional as it makes itself out to be. Primarily: the Blade Guide is one gigantic gaping weakness. Not because it can be destroyed, but because you can be separated from it and its movement is horrendously slow. "Having access to your blade guide" is ill defined, but there is evidence that the intent is that it means having it near you or line of effect to it. If your DM rules this way, it's an easy way to lose class features in a hurry (get it? because you're moving too fast ). Antimagic fields can also rob you of more than one "Extraordinary" class feature since they make your Blade Guide go bye-bye for the duration it's in them.

    Ultimately, ending Eternal Blade at 9 is just fine for most builds, and a 2 level Psychic Warrior dip is better than most people think. Of course, that would alter the course of the build entirely, and (in my opinion) make War Mind less attractive. Which subverts the intent of this build. That being said, I still think it's an important point to make that War Mind delays the pace of your highest level maneuvers significantly enough to create a sizeable power difference between this and something like Psywar 2 Warblade 9 Eternal Blade 9. Using a Dorje of Hustle (potentially in a wand chamber) works just fine, so I don't see the need for 2nd level powers as much as acquiring a psionic focus in the first place to do what you want.

    Given the limited power point pool, I'm surprised you didn't snag Quicksilver Motion as a known maneuver, saving Eternal Training for more situational/utility maneuvers. Greater Insightful Strike is honestly "meh", while Diamond Nightmare Blade is "WTFBBQ" good. Eternal Training bridges the gap between the two by providing options like Ruby Nightmare Blade, and I'd rather have a maneuver like Quicksilver Motion on my core list before getting to Diamond. I'll also probably never agree with Steely Strike as a maneuver known . You're also avoiding backup defensive options like Ironheart Surge for no discernible reason. Even if the DM limits you to the conditions list in the SRD and non-instantaneous spells, it's still worth taking and goes a long way in alleviating constraints on party resources.

    I'm also shocked you spent so many maneuvers known on Devoted Spirit, particularly with what you ended up with. Castigating Strike really does nothing for your build, and I've always found Bounding Assault to be far more practical in games than any straight-line charging maneuver for getting yourself into melee for the first round of combat. As much as I think Dancing Blade Form is a great stance for a War Mind build, Aura of Perfect Order really helps you navigate your maneuver selection more smoothly, in that you aren't pigeon-holed into as many less-than-ideal Devoted Spirit maneuvers. It also saves you a potential feat and psionic focus use by letting you take 11 on Concentration checks.

    Immortal Fortitude is good, (really really good) but it's exploitable and towing the line required to get actual use out of it can lead to character death. In my experience it rarely prevents deaths that would be otherwise unavoidable.

    Cha should be 8 on both point buys, there's just no reason to not use those 2 points in Str/Con (for the 28 pt build) or Wis/Dex/Int/Con (for the 32).

    It should probably also be mentioned that "Crown of the White Ravens"-like items can be used to help meet maneuver prerequisites, as they explicitly grant you knowledge of maneuvers. Although, I reserve judgement on that basis, as it may be assumed that such a level of optimization goes beyond the scope of these builds.

    Overall, I like the directional choices you made with the build, but the order of optimization could use some work in smoothing out the transitions and creating distinct tactical power options for each stage in the character's progression. Lack of Psionic Meditation until level 15 is truly this builds greatest flaw.
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Thanks for the feedback, all!

    I waffled a lot between aura of perfect order and dancing blade form. I love aura of perfect order on just about any build that can fit it in, and would have loved to have it here... but until island in time comes online, the build's only way of moving and still bypassing the sweeping strike restriction is synchronicity, and that just wasn't as reliable as I'd liked. For that reason I decided to prioritize getting extra reach, which would make mobility less of a concern. Of course, the downside was that it meant I needed an additional Devoted Spirit maneuver to meet the reqs for immortal fortitude, and hence I had to go with the underwhelming castigating strike. I don't think castigating strike is bad, of course - while a DC 17 Fort save isn't that impressive at that level, it's still an attack with 8d6 bonus damage and some minor burst damage to every foe within 30 feet even if everyone makes their save. Not as good as avalanche of blades perhaps, but definitely not useless either.

    I didn't bother with quicksilver motion since the build already has access to hustle, and you can always use eternal training to pick it up if you feel like you're in a situation where extra mobility will be worth more than damage.

    I do wish Psionic Meditation could come online earlier, but in practice it's still pretty decent. It's only really felt between levels 12 and 15 (the levels when you might want to be able to use ruby nightmare blade plus Deep Impact twice in an encounter), but it's still something you can pull off every encounter, and even outside that trick you're still a war mind/eternal blade with perfect BAB, Power Attack and several excellent maneuvers.

    It's also worth noting that the version with flaws avoids all of the above issues: it gets Psionic Meditation three levels earlier, and the early level of crusader it fits in means you don't have to spend your eternal blade maneuvers known picking up Devoted Spirit pre-reqs. (The version with flaws takes two flaws to get Weapon Focus and Power Attack at level 1, replaces the level of fighter with a level of crusader, and bumps Deep Impact and Psionic Meditation three levels earlier). That level of crusader actually does wonders for opening up the build: the early game loves the extra maneuvers and getting crusader's strike and martial spirit when they're actually level, the mid-game really likes having Deep Impact and Psionic Meditation earlier and the late-game loves not being shoehorned into spending your first three eternal blade maneuvers known on Devoted Spirit just to fill pre-reqs.

    EDIT: Forgot to address the war mind vs psywar question. I agree that psywar into an initiating class is great (I have quite a few builds that use that), but in this case the real draw is sweeping strike. I was specifically looking for a way to combine the high damage, single target diamond mind strikes with sweeping strike. Being able to pull off great damage numbers with Power Attack + Deep Impact + nightmare blade is great; being able to do it against two opponents at once is even better.
    Last edited by Piggy Knowles; 2018-09-15 at 01:51 PM.
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    I wish I had more to add, but honestly, you’ve pretty much covered just about everything. This is a fine piece of optimization work!
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    It's also worth noting that the version with flaws avoids all of the above issues: it gets Psionic Meditation three levels earlier, and the early level of crusader it fits in means you don't have to spend your eternal blade maneuvers known picking up Devoted Spirit pre-reqs.
    Yea, flaws make a huge difference for martial builds that are tight like this. To the point that I won't play certain builds at flaw-less tables. That being said, assuming flaws, I'd be inclined to take Psionic Meditation at 6th or 9th at the latest. It really does bring most of the build's key features home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    EDIT: Forgot to address the war mind vs psywar question. I agree that psywar into an initiating class is great (I have quite a few builds that use that), but in this case the real draw is sweeping strike. I was specifically looking for a way to combine the high damage, single target diamond mind strikes with sweeping strike. Being able to pull off great damage numbers with Power Attack + Deep Impact + nightmare blade is great; being able to do it against two opponents at once is even better.
    Yea. I've built something similar before (Warmind 5->Eternal Blade), so I thought I would share some of my experiences with it; and the gripes I encountered in the building (and playing) process. Maneuver selection (and the lack of maneuver swaps) in initiator PrCs have always been a huge pain point of mine, particularly in builds like this.

    EDIT: And for the record, this is the first time I've encountered this series of yours. I'll definitely keep an eye out for it in the future. Sharing (and improving) ideas like this has always been one of my favorite things about the 3.5 tabletop community, so keep it up!
    Last edited by Sleven; 2018-09-14 at 04:00 PM.
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Hurray for piggy! Hurray for fun new builds! I always wanted to make a "hit everything" build, but I always forget about odd classes, like warmind and warhulk.
    Speaking of, would a massive reach build with warhulk and manuevers be possible? I'll try and look into that before dnd tonight 😀

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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    I like this a lot. It'll make a good LBEG. :D

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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    I think you overlooked the possibility of dragonborn elf. Dragonborn adds Fighter as a favored class, thus avoiding multiclass penalties while enabling you to reap the benefits of better ability scores and wings. If you use the drow savage progression, you end up with +2 Int and no penalties; if you don't want to use the savage progression, fire elf nets you +2 Int, -2 Cha, which is still favorable. Honestly, even applying dragonborn to half-elf seems like a no-brainer: ditch the crappy half-elf abilities, get wings instead.

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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    I think you overlooked the possibility of dragonborn elf. Dragonborn adds Fighter as a favored class, thus avoiding multiclass penalties while enabling you to reap the benefits of better ability scores and wings. If you use the drow savage progression, you end up with +2 Int and no penalties; if you don't want to use the savage progression, fire elf nets you +2 Int, -2 Cha, which is still favorable. Honestly, even applying dragonborn to half-elf seems like a no-brainer: ditch the crappy half-elf abilities, get wings instead.
    Wow, somehow I completely forgot about dragonborn adding Fighter as a favored class. Yeah, that's a direct upgrade - +2 Con and wings beats out anything half-elf has to offer. I'll add a note to the main build.
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    If you have access to Dragon material, then you also want to use the Exoticist variant of the Fighter as well. It's a free upgrade. If you don't have access to Dragon, I'd strongly consider the Hit and Run variant to get that initiative boost.

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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Since it seems like discussion on this one is petering down, does anyone have strong feelings about the next showcase to go up? I see we've had one request so far for the incarnum build, a fun little build based off of a character Venger played in a campaign I ran a few years back. I don't want to give anything away, but here are some teasers for builds that can probably be showcase-ready in the next couple of weeks:

    • A sinister incarnum user who pushes his soulmelds to the limit;
    • An arcane singer with a voice that can quite literally stop your heart;
    • The Omni-Chameleon, focused on casting... well... anything;
    • A perfectly savage totemblade, showing off just how nicely incarnum plays with ToB; and
    • A bard who uses her voice for battlefield control and direct damage rather than party buffing.


    Alternately, is there anything else you'd like to see us focus on? Cool tricks that you've found but would like to see explored more? Build concepts that you think are worthy of a showcase? I can't promise that we'll showcase anything in particular (we've all got pretty full schedules and full-time jobs), but we all love building and toying with different concepts. Let us know what you'd like to see us do!

    (And of course feel free to continue talking about the current build if you'd like...)
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    I would love to see anything using binder or shadowcaster in the future. the Ashardalon reborn one from back in the day made me fall in love with binder, and made me pick up tome of magic. shadowcaster needs love somewhere I love it flavorwise.

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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    I'm rather fond of Bard builds myself, so would be interested in seeing what you've come up with.

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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    I too have loved all the flavor of the classes that were presented in tome of magic, and would love to see builds that can actually function from it. I think I have seen only one truespeaker build that didn't reply on cheese to work well. And I don't think I have seen anyone touch shadow caster.
    Although you mentioned bard and chameleon builds, and I do like both of those as well.
    To many choices.

    Maybe I'll see what I can do with shadow caster in my off time.
    Last edited by Menzath; 2018-09-19 at 10:00 AM.

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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Very reminiscent of the Inevitable Nightmare, a warforged warblade 18/psywar 2 from the original Optimization Showcase. I like the addition of War Mind, but I think it's a good idea to drop the fighter level for psywar at 4, in order to get Psionic Meditation at that level and save a feat on Hidden Talent. I like Eternal Blade rather less than having my primary feature delayed until level 15.

    In an entirely different direction, there might be some useful synergy between War Mind and Bloodstorm Blade.
    Last edited by ExLibrisMortis; 2018-09-19 at 10:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Wow. Well done PiggyKnowles. This build is incredibly elegant on top of super powerful. Hat's off!

    The one suggestion that came to mind upon reading this was that pair of psionic feats from ToB, Instant Clarity that allows you to regain your foucs as a swift action after initiating a strike (but only 3/day) and Psychic Renewal to regain an expanded maneuver as a swift action at the cost of your focus and a number of PP equal to the maneuver level. But you don't have the power points to use the latter, while you could definitely enjoy the former but Hustle+Psionic Meditation is superior

    I'd be very intrigued to see the Incarnum build as well! :)
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Quote Originally Posted by ExLibrisMortis View Post
    Very reminiscent of the Inevitable Nightmare, a warforged warblade 18/psywar 2 from the original Optimization Showcase. I like the addition of War Mind, but I think it's a good idea to drop the fighter level for psywar at 4, in order to get Psionic Meditation at that level and save a feat on Hidden Talent. I like Eternal Blade rather less than having my primary feature delayed until level 15.

    In an entirely different direction, there might be some useful synergy between War Mind and Bloodstorm Blade.
    Losing even 1 point of BAB (such as from PsyWar) prevents you from finishing Eternal Blade pre-Epic, though.

    I mean, sure, we can talk about how relevant level 20 really is, but I don’t think we can really deny that EB has a very cool capstone, and the build does look nicer with all 10 levels in it.
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Losing even 1 point of BAB (such as from PsyWar) prevents you from finishing Eternal Blade pre-Epic, though.

    I mean, sure, we can talk about how relevant level 20 really is, but I don’t think we can really deny that EB has a very cool capstone, and the build does look nicer with all 10 levels in it.
    EB 10 is probably its best level, but I don't like the class otherwise, exactly because of this sort of thing. The original Inevitable Nightmare was a straight warblade with Stormguard Warrior, which is something I'd much prefer to Eternal Blade, especially if you're optimizing reach: it's only a small jump to optimizing Trip (warblades get INT to trip!) and getting that Diamond Nightmare Blade with extra damage. Note that Sweeping Strike works on AoOs.
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    I'd very much like to see an Incarnum focused showcase. Especially Incarnate focused, just because it's been a big challenge to me to find an Incarnate focused build that holds it's own at the handbook level of optimization. I'd really like to see one that ideally doesn't need sapphire hierarch or other spellcasting or similar.
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    While I can't argue that the pre-reqs for Eternal Blade are a bear, I think that you are seriously underrating eternal training. Island in time is probably one of the best capstones to a martial class in all of 3.5 and I was glad to fit it in, but eternal training is the real draw to the class. The ability to pull maneuvers on demand as the encounter dictates is huge. Sure, they're limited to two disciplines—but if you had to limit yourself to two disciplines for an ability like that, you could do a heck of a lot worse than Diamond Mind and Devoted Spirit. Those two disciplines provide high-damage tactical nukes, free movement, healing, save boosters, debuffs, party support... basically everything you'll need. You can focus your limited maneuvers known on meeeting pre-reqs or on workhorse maneuvers that you know you'll want every encounter, because you can select the perfect maneuver for a particular encounter on demand. Eternal training also means that you don't have to wait for a new maneuver known to have access to your highest level maneuvers, which is something that a lot of multiclass initiators struggle with.

    Anyhow, it seems like we've got a lot of requests for incarnate, so we'll go with that one. Venger is tightening up the build as we speak, and then we'll start on the write-up.
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Having looked at the build some more, I have additional comments/improvements/options for builds of this general type.

    • Your blade guide can't make Knowledge Devotion checks for you, only use Aid Another.
    • Synchronicity lets you bypass the movement restriction on Sweeping Strike. Even better, it can be Linked or Twinned, which costs you your focus, but might help you get the actions where you need them. A basic approach would be to have Linked Power and manifest hustle Link synchronicity (4 pp), getting you a floating readied action after your next turn, at the cost of a swift this turn. It's a lot of planning ahead, but it's worth doing (it makes for a nice pre-battle buff, too).
      More elaborate invocations along the lines of Twin hustle Link synchronicity require a lot of extra feats due to focus concerns (at least three, maybe four or five, depending on Metapower use), and are somewhat cheesy, but they would go very well with a build that cares a lot about not moving "since the end of your last turn".
      N.B. Stormguard Warrior is much more restrictive, and only grants a bonus "on your next turn", which may not cover synchronicity actions. I like the feat, but it's harder to use.
    • Hidden Talent, Knowledge Devotion, Weapon Focus, the fighter level, and two Devoted Spirit picks can be replaced with psywar 1/cloistered cleric 1/crusader 1. That clears a lot of space to add more tricks, and I think it's worth giving up Island in Time for. Delaying EB also lets you pick up Immortal Fortitude (or Stance of Alacrity, my personal favourite) with levels, potentially saving another feat.
    • Dropping the fighter level for a crusader level, you can apply Eternal Blade's three extra readied maneuvers to crusader, and get Diamond Nightmare Blade refreshing every turn. Idiot crusaders are a bit (okay, very) cheesy, but they're also very powerful.
    • If you're dipping those three classes, you suddenly qualify for Ruby Knight Vindicator (and Ordained Champion--potentially two bonus feats there), two levels of which lets you recover Diamond Nightmare Blade with a Turn Undead use. Obviously no good if you're an idiot crusader, but much less cheesy. Also comes with an extra stance.

    Okay, my head's about empty now. I'm looking forward to your take on Incarnum. See you next time!
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Great post! As always, you've managed to keep it at a solid level of practical optimization and showed of some unique interactions that aren't normally played around with. Dimension Slip might be another power to consider to replace Call Item, given how you can shuffle actions and turns around with such ease. Looking forward to the Incarnum user!

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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    Since it seems like discussion on this one is petering down, does anyone have strong feelings about the next showcase to go up? I see we've had one request so far for the incarnum build, a fun little build based off of a character Venger played in a campaign I ran a few years back. I don't want to give anything away, but here are some teasers for builds that can probably be showcase-ready in the next couple of weeks:

    • A sinister incarnum user who pushes his soulmelds to the limit;
    • An arcane singer with a voice that can quite literally stop your heart;
    • The Omni-Chameleon, focused on casting... well... anything;
    • A perfectly savage totemblade, showing off just how nicely incarnum plays with ToB; and
    • A bard who uses her voice for battlefield control and direct damage rather than party buffing.


    Alternately, is there anything else you'd like to see us focus on? Cool tricks that you've found but would like to see explored more? Build concepts that you think are worthy of a showcase? I can't promise that we'll showcase anything in particular (we've all got pretty full schedules and full-time jobs), but we all love building and toying with different concepts. Let us know what you'd like to see us do!

    (And of course feel free to continue talking about the current build if you'd like...)
    I would like to see Omni-Chameleon as the next one (and for the showcases to comeback since this one was more than 3 months ago). For the one after i would like a necromancer focused on controlling as many (and as powerful) undeads as possible.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    May 2017

    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    I would like to see battlefield control bard. I realy hope this showcase is not dead. I check almost daily

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Earth
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    First of all, an eternal blade can't be a half-elf. It specifically says "elf" in the prerequisites, not "elf or half-elf." Second, there's no reason to take a level of fighter in this build, unless you're adding it in there just to grab proficiency with heavy armor, and/or tower shields, and/or ranged weapons. The warblade gets a bonus fighter feat at level 5 anyway, so you can take power attack with that. In fact, this way the elf won't even suffer a multiclassing penalty.
    Murphy said 'whatever can go wrong, will go wrong'.

    I say Murphy was an incurable optimist.

    In my experience, even things that can't go wrong... often do.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Troacctid's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyrender View Post
    First of all, an eternal blade can't be a half-elf. It specifically says "elf" in the prerequisites, not "elf or half-elf." Second, there's no reason to take a level of fighter in this build, unless you're adding it in there just to grab proficiency with heavy armor, and/or tower shields, and/or ranged weapons. The warblade gets a bonus fighter feat at level 5 anyway, so you can take power attack with that. In fact, this way the elf won't even suffer a multiclassing penalty.
    Half-elves count as elves because of their elven blood racial ability. Also, warblades don't get a fighter bonus feat at 5, they get a warblade bonus feat. Totally different list, much smaller, doesn't include any of the feats in this build.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Earth
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    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    I apologize for making the mistake in regard to the bonus feat. It's been a long time since I played 3.5, and I've never played a warblade long enough for it to sink in that it's a different list of feats.

    That said, from the PHB, emphasis mine:

    Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf. Half-elves, for example, are just as vulnerable to special effects that affect elves as their elf ancestors are, and they can use magic items that are only usable by elves.

    Essentially, this racial trait makes half-elves count as elves for magic-related purposes (spells/SLAs, supernatural abilities, magic items, etc.). I have a long-winded explanation for why this is done this way, but I'd rather not get into it here. Ultimately, while half-elves are often included in the same breath as elves for various purposes, that's not always the case. In fact, there are PrCs like the arcane archer and the bladesinger which specifically make mention of including half-elves. The eternal blade is not one of these. It says you have to be an elf, and while initiator classes are debatably magical in nature, just relying on elven blood doesn't get you the whole way there. Consult your DM, of course, but as far as I understand the rules of 3.5, that's how it stands.

    If you feel this is in error, please point me to what page of which book says that half-elves always count as full-blooded elves for all purposes, and I'll concede the point.
    Last edited by Skyrender; 2020-12-12 at 04:41 AM.
    Murphy said 'whatever can go wrong, will go wrong'.

    I say Murphy was an incurable optimist.

    In my experience, even things that can't go wrong... often do.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless War Min

    Quote Originally Posted by ExLibrisMortis View Post
    (warblades get INT to trip!)
    Sadly, they only get Int to trip CMD, not trip CMB. What they do get however is Int to hit on attacks of opportunity, which should cover a good portion of your trippings.

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