Bladebound Magus 17+ Problem

[ATHATH]

I was (re)reading the intelligent magic item rules recently, and I came across this paragraph (emphasis mine, or course):

When an item has an Ego of its own, it has a will of its own. The item is absolutely true to its alignment. If the character who possesses the item is not true to that alignment’s goals or the item’s special purpose, personality conflict—item against character—results. Similarly, any item with an Ego score of 20 or higher always considers itself superior to any character, and a personality conflict results if the possessor does not always agree with the item.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...01/007/WAT.jpg

This paragraph's interaction with the Bladebound Magus archetype's Black Blade, which gains an ego score of 22 at 17th level (and later an even higher one) is concerning.

Basically, as far as I can tell, no matter how modest, reasonably, and agreeable your Black Blade was before you hit 17th level, as soon as you hit 17th level, it declares itself superior to you and DEMANDS that you ALWAYS agree with it on EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING, or else it's domination time, baby! As far as I can tell, it'll try to dominate you even if you're aligned with its purpose, since the bolded sentence says "similarly" in reference to the previous sentence about not being aligned with the item's purpose.

So(,) you essentially have four options here:
1. Agree with your Black Blade on everything and anything. You're now your Black Blade's b*tch, and it's basically using you as a meat puppet.
2. Don't agree with your Black Blade on everything and anything. This will provoke TONS of personality conflicts, and even if you have a godlike Will save you'll eventually roll a 1 on your personality conflict save (unless you have an ability or something that prevents that) and become dominated by your Black Blade (for about a 1/20th of the time or more, at least). You're now your Black Blade's b*tch, and it's basically using you as a meat puppet.
3. Ditch your Black Blade in the desert somewhere and never touch it again. You're basically just a normal Magus with a smaller Arcane Pool and one less Magus Arcana now. Oh, and I hope you were saving up money for a new weapon, because you're gonna need to buy, be lent, and/or craft one now.
4. Some combinaion of the above.

Is there a fifth option that I could take? Does an immunity to mind-affecting stuff protect me from being possessed by my own Black Blade?

[ATHATH]

Oh, and another potential issue (by some interpretations):

The item is absolutely true to its alignment.

Oh boy, guess it's time to act like an Outsider with an alignment subtype (or else you're gonna be FORCED to act like one)!

On a side note, that line might cause issues for more than just Bladebound Magi and their tablemates...

[Ninjaxenomorph]

A black blade is independently conscious but features some personality traits reflecting its wielder. A black blade always has the same alignment as its wielder and even changes its alignment if its wielder does. The blade typically works toward its wielder’s goals, but not always without argument or backlash.

That's what UM has to say about it; specific trumps general. In this case, I'd say it would definitely start asserting itself more, but would try to maintain the partnership. After all, who else can wield it?

[The Insanity]

You change who you're roleplaying when you hit 17th level, that's all. I don't see the issue.

[Kurald Galain]

One constructive way you could put it, is that a level-17 character is clearly one of the Movers And Shakers of the world, and will likely have a goal and vision of how to improve the world. You will probably have had character development related to this goal, and to how to reach it, and to not getting distracted. Your Black Blade shares your goal and serves your goal, and will do its best to keep you focused and warn you when you are falling back.

For instance, suppose your character had been alcoholic, and impeded in his goals by getting drunk, then you could have a character arc in getting over this, and you now have a sword that will try to keep you from falling off the wagon, so to speak.

If this fifth option does not appeal to you, then an obvious sixth one is to multiclass (e.g. bloodrager with mad magic feat, or wizard) or prestige class (e.g. natural alchemist or stargazer) when you hit level 17.

[ATHATH]

One constructive way you could put it, is that a level-17 character is clearly one of the Movers And Shakers of the world, and will likely have a goal and vision of how to improve the world. You will probably have had character development related to this goal, and to how to reach it, and to not getting distracted. Your Black Blade shares your goal and serves your goal, and will do its best to keep you focused and warn you when you are falling back.

For instance, suppose your character had been alcoholic, and impeded in his goals by getting drunk, then you could have a character arc in getting over this, and you now have a sword that will try to keep you from falling off the wagon, so to speak.

If this fifth option does not appeal to you, then an obvious sixth one is to multiclass (e.g. bloodrager with mad magic feat, or wizard) or prestige class (e.g. natural alchemist or stargazer) when you hit level 17.

But you're so close to getting those Wizard spells (without having to spend Magus Arcana slots on them)...

Is there a way to dampen the Ego score of a Black Blade? It has a nonstandard Ego score, so I don't think that damaging its mental stats would work...

[Peat]

Trust your GM to make it a great story and RPing opportunity. As long as they're not a tool, you can still play the same character and real full out arguments should be rare, and failures to win them should be dramatic moments that don't ruin everything.

If you don't trust your GM, or trust them but still don't want even that slight lack of control... you probably shouldn't have picked an archetype that gives you an Intelligent Magic Item. I'd second Kurald's suggestion of a PrC as the most elegant situation.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kurald Galain
If this fifth option does not appeal to you, then an obvious sixth one is to multiclass (e.g. bloodrager with mad magic feat, or wizard) or prestige class (e.g. natural alchemist or stargazer) when you hit level 17.

This seems like a clumsy workaround at best, essentially declaring failure in the face of a rules conflict.

Or put another way—why should a rules conflict force your character onto an entirely different trajectory?

[Kurald Galain]

why should a rules conflict force your character onto an entirely different trajectory?

There is no rules conflict, and nobody is forcing you onto anything, as this consequence of the archetype is clear straight from level one. If you want a different way to resolve it, check the part of my earlier post that you didn't quote.

[DarkOne-Rob]

Though this seems like an interesting little tid-bit, it seems like this is a conversation that is best resolved with the player and DM...I mean, if you choose to create a character closely tied to a sentient blade that would not exist if not for your character-building decisions, it seems reasonable to imagine that conflicts wouldn't come up much (at least, between the blade and the player). Having a character/blade conflict is not the same as a player/blade conflict, after all.

Just my thoughts. I recently rebuilt a PC to become a Bladed Arcanist/VMC Battle Oracle/Eldritch Knight, and I am looking forward to the interactions between the character and the weapon!

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kurald Galain
*snip*

If you’re taking a PrC specifically to avoid a level in your primary class, that sounds like a problem to me.

[Kurald Galain]

If you’re taking a PrC specifically to avoid a level in your primary class, that sounds like a problem to me.

Here, let me quote that for you:

One constructive way you could put it, is that a level-17 character is clearly one of the Movers And Shakers of the world, and will likely have a goal and vision of how to improve the world. You will probably have had character development related to this goal, and to how to reach it, and to not getting distracted. Your Black Blade shares your goal and serves your goal, and will do its best to keep you focused and warn you when you are falling back.

For instance, suppose your character had been alcoholic, and impeded in his goals by getting drunk, then you could have a character arc in getting over this, and you now have a sword that will try to keep you from falling off the wagon, so to speak.

[Peat]

If you’re taking a PrC specifically to avoid a level in your primary class, that sounds like a problem to me.

Perhaps its a problem, but I don't see how this is a rules conflict forcing the character to take a different trajectory.

[dude123nice]

Oh no! Actually having to roleplay for a bit in return for an archetype that is a clear boost to your power, how terrible! Honestly the only bad part about this rule is that at 20 Ego the item apparently suddenly becomes MUCH more assertive. It's assertiveness should ramp up steadily with it's ego, but you should also have more ways of bargaining and dealing with it. You could try talking to your DM and having him agree to roleplay a black blade that definitely has a personality of it's own, but that you can also try to find middle ground with.

[Elricaltovilla]

Oh no! Actually having to roleplay for a bit in return for an archetype that is a clear boost to your power, how terrible! Honestly the only bad part about this rule is that at 20 Ego the item apparently suddenly becomes MUCH more assertive. It's assertiveness should ramp up steadily with it's ego, but you should also have more ways of bargaining and dealing with it. You could try talking to your DM and having him agree to roleplay a black blade that definitely has a personality of it's own, but that you can also try to find middle ground with.

Uh, bladebound magus is actually a downgrade or at best a side grade. Between the loss of access to better familiars, smaller arcane pool, and fewer magus arcana (plus the locking out of other archetypes that may be a better fit) the bladebound magus gives up quite a bit for access to a weapon that is only marginally better than one he could buy or craft himself.

[dude123nice]

Uh, bladebound magus is actually a downgrade or at best a side grade. Between the loss of access to better familiars, smaller arcane pool, and fewer magus arcana (plus the locking out of other archetypes that may be a better fit) the bladebound magus gives up quite a bit for access to a weapon that is only marginally better than one he could buy or craft himself.

I don't know if there is even a single other archetype you loose access to, other than beastblade, and certainly not any of the stronger ones. You have A LOT of ways to get arcana and arcane pool to compensate, you have more money to spend on magic items other than your primary weapon ( a primary concern for a magus normally), you can ad even more flat damage to your attacks and you can change what type of damage you are dealing, perfect to get through DR and resistances for that one attack that REALLY counts.

[Kurald Galain]

Uh, bladebound magus is actually a downgrade or at best a side grade.

Nah, it's a straight upgrade all across the board. If you compare the weapon you get for free to what other people spend one-third of their WBL on, then the black blade is actually better until the last few levels of the game. It ends up being the equivalent a +8 weapon, that you can enchant further with your arcane pool...