Stuck in the Middle

[Kesnit]

All names have been changed.

Spoiler: Background

Show

People
Anne: My wife
Jessica: Nate’s now ex.
Nate: Small business owner
Samantha: Nate’s business partner
Jackie: Long-time friend of Nate

Anne and I met the others about 2 years ago. When we first met, we lived near Samantha (and her husband, who is not involved in this situation). Jessica, Nate, and Jackie lived about 6 hours away. Jessica and Nate had been together about 5 years and have a 3 year old son, Munchkin. About the time Munchkin was born, Jackie needed a place to go to get away from a bad situation, so she moved in with Jessica and Nate.

Nate and Samantha have been business partners for several years, but until recently, their business has been based on conventions and Internet sales.

April 2017, Anne and I moved about an hour away from Jessica, Nate, and Jackie. (I got a new job, and Anne’s job transferred her to the same area.) A few months later, Jessica, Nate, and Jackie moved to a rental property about 30 minutes from us. (We have the same landlord.) Not long after, Nate found a property that would be amazing for his and Samantha’s business. (Huge workspace, and a storefront. The town is economically depressed, so there are a lot of abandoned storefronts downtown.) Samantha agreed, and moved to the same town, and they have been working for about a year to renovate the building for their use. I found out a month ago that they have also found other buildings (in the same district) that would work for side businesses both want to set up, and have entered rent-to-own agreements for those properties. They’ve also been doing the work to keep their business up and running, so have been working exceptionally long days.

Jessica was working for a temp agency, but one of her temp jobs led to a permanent position. Her job is really close to our house. Her job starts about 5 am, so she gets up at 4 am to get to work and goes to bed early in the evening.

Jackie mostly serves as a live-in nanny for Munchkin, and takes on side work as it comes up. Being the live-in nanny was never intended to be a permanent thing, but that is how things just happened.

Since we live 30 minutes apart, Anne and I go to their house most every Saturday to game and hang out.

Spoiler: Recent Events

Show

A few months ago, Jessica told us she and Nate were splitting up. Anne and I weren’t too surprised, as we had seen the rift between them. They appeared to patch things up, but a few weeks ago, informed us their relationship is really over.

We got Jessica’s side of the story first, since she is the one who told us about the split. She says that Nate is never home, she has been keeping all the bills paid, he’s not contributing, he doesn’t take care of Munchkin, and several other issues. She also told us that she will be looking for a place to rent closer to her work.

A few days later, Anne talked to Nate and got his side. That’s when we found out about the additional businesses he is planning to open and the buildings that go with them. He also said that soon after the New Year, the side businesses will be open. He also said that he’s been paying the bills, and that Jessica has been late on the rent about half the time. (I knew they had paid late a few times, but not how many.) Nate also claims that our landlord would not renew their lease if Jessica’s name was on it. (They have been going month-to-month for a few months.)

We do not have independent corroboration of either side. (We know the extra business and buildings are true because Samantha confirmed that, but I can’t confirm whether or not they are anywhere near being operational.) Based on what I have seen, I am inclined to believe Nate, but am just not sure. Maybe I am just too much of a lawyer (my real life profession), but it is hard for me to just take someone’s word for something.

At this point, there is no need to take sides. However, Anne and I both see that coming. Jessica doesn’t have any family that can help her, and her friends are me, Anne, and Samantha. Anne and I are willing to be supportive of Jessica while she sets up her new life, but there is only so much we can do. Jessica says she will find a place to live, but her credit is shot and there aren’t a lot of rental properties in the area. She also says she wants to take Munchkin when she moves out, but child care is a concern (especially since we’re pretty sure Munchkin is not up to date on his vaccines due to a lack of insurance).

Are there any steps we can take to keep from being drug into the middle of this? Any recommendations we can make to Jessica to help her get on her feet? (We know about food stamps and the Healthcare Marketplace.)

[ve4grm]

So I'll preface this by suggesting you repost or cross-post this to the "Personal Woes and Advice" thread. A lot of good advice gets thrown around there.

Alright, so the first question is - will you actually need to take sides?
Based on how you're describing it, this seems to be more frustration than anger. Will one of them actually be mad if you help out the other? While they may not stay friends, they may have no issue with you being friends with both of them, separately.

At the moment, you don't know the financial situation, and have no right to that information. On that end, back off. Whoever is actually right, it doesn't matter to you unless it hurts someone.

The best thing you can do to help Jessica land on her feet is to offer assistance finding a place to live. Don't co-sign for the apartment or anything, but your proximity to the location she's looking for might put you in a better position to find a property than she is. Beyond that, help her sign up for whatever programs she might need (like the ones you mentioned).

Now, if things go sideways, and the whole situation blows up?
I don't really have any advice for how to keep from being dragged into it. Do your best not to take sides if you can. If nothing else, you might be able to stay as the neutral party.

But if things really take a dive? I see you as having one job, and one job only.
And that's making sure Munchkin is in a good place at the end of all of this. Become Munchkin's advocate, since he can't speak for himself.

[Kyberwulf]

Just a nitpick. You could leave Jackie and samantha out of the story. They really don't need to be there.

Also, you could just say, a couple of people we hang out with are splitting up.... it's what the story boils down.

They don't have a right to put you in the middle of this. It's between them. Help her as much as you either can or willing. Although, to be honest, it sounds like you want to cut him loose but cant, cause of the spud. Which to be fair.. isn't your concern either. But, you can tell them both not to fight over him and share responsibility. (She doesn't have a right to "take" him anymore then he does) which, how does he feel about custody of the kid?

Based on(what seems to be a biased point of view) how you are framing this story, you have already chosen a side. You are concerned about her, have not said anything about him.. disbelieving him when he gives you information. Unless collaborated by her...

All in all, you seen to be more concerned about Jeasica.

[Kesnit]

Alright, so the first question is - will you actually need to take sides?

Good question. I don't know. Jessica says she wants to stay friends; Nate does not care - if Jessica wants to stay in contact, he will.

Based on how you're describing it, this seems to be more frustration than anger. Will one of them actually be mad if you help out the other?

Nate won't. Jessica... I don't know.

At the moment, you don't know the financial situation, and have no right to that information. On that end, back off. Whoever is actually right, it doesn't matter to you unless it hurts someone.

I see your point. I only brought it up, as that is the basis for many of their issues.

The best thing you can do to help Jessica land on her feet is to offer assistance finding a place to live. Don't co-sign for the apartment or anything, but your proximity to the location she's looking for might put you in a better position to find a property than she is.

There is no way we are co-signing on her apartment! :) There aren't a lot of apartments in the area, so I am not sure how much luck she'll have finding a place to live.

But if things really take a dive? I see you as having one job, and one job only.
And that's making sure Munchkin is in a good place at the end of all of this. Become Munchkin's advocate, since he can't speak for himself.

I suspect that will make Jessica angry, as Anne and I think Munchkin would be better off staying with his father.

Just a nitpick. You could leave Jackie and samantha out of the story. They really don't need to be there.

I included them because they are wrapped up in everything (especially Jackie), but at a one-remove. Rereading what I wrote, I do give the impression they are less involved than they are.

Although, to be honest, it sounds like you want to cut him loose but cant, cause of the spud. Which to be fair.. isn't your concern either. But, you can tell them both not to fight over him and share responsibility. (She doesn't have a right to "take" him anymore then he does) which, how does he feel about custody of the kid?

The full answer to that goes into more detail than needs to be said. As I said above, I think Munchkin would be better off staying with Nate, but I get the impression Jessica thinks Munchkin will go with her when she leaves.

Based on(what seems to be a biased point of view) how you are framing this story, you have already chosen a side. You are concerned about her, have not said anything about him.. disbelieving him when he gives you information. Unless collaborated by her...

Again, I can see how what I wrote could be read that way. In reality, I don't know who to believe.

All in all, you seen to be more concerned about Jeasica.

Because I know Nate can take care of himself.

[ve4grm]

I see your point. I only brought it up, as that is the basis for many of their issues.

Oh, it definitely is. I'm mostly talking about how you don't know who's telling you the truth, or who's right about the finances. Until it involves you, it doesn't matter beyond "financial stress" as a factor in the breakup.

Nate won't. Jessica... I don't know.

Perfect, since you'd be helping Jessica in this case anyways. Finding a place to stay and all that. And if you do that, and then also help Nate some, at least it's clearly not giving him preferential treatment.

I suspect that will make Jessica angry, as Anne and I think Munchkin would be better off staying with his father.

Financially, sure, but he also seems to work long hours and may not be able to manage a 3-year-old time-wise? What you might want to do is advocate for joint custody.

But again, this is only if you get pulled into it, and things are looking like it won't work out amicably. If not, let them work things out, whatever your opinion may be.

I included them because they are wrapped up in everything (especially Jackie), but at a one-remove. Rereading what I wrote, I do give the impression they are less involved than they are.

Yeah, my initial thought from your having included these two women close to Nate was that it was going to turn into an affair, but it never did.

[Razade]

This isn't your problem. If they're married, they'll need a lawyer. If not...they're still going to need one for all the stuff involved with the kid.

Either way. Keep out of this. Don't take your friend into your home even on a short term basis. Keep out of this. Don't help your other friend, he seems to be doing just fine. Keep out of this.

Keep out of this.

[Kyrell1978]

This isn't your problem. If they're married, they'll need a lawyer. If not...they're still going to need one for all the stuff involved with the kid.

Either way. Keep out of this. Don't take your friend into your home even on a short term basis. Keep out of this. Don't help your other friend, he seems to be doing just fine. Keep out of this.

Keep out of this.

This. None of this is your problem or your fault. Neither side has any right to tell you that you need to support them, or that you need to not support the other side. Be whatever type of friend you already are to each, and if someone gets angry, that say a lot about them, but nothing about you. If someone were to get angry because you were nice to a friend of yours that they happen to not like then that is the person who is not worth having as a friend.

[Cozzer]

Do whatever you feel like doing. Act towards each other of them as if the possibility of the other one resenting you didn't even exist. If they choose to resent you anyways? Well, that sounds like their problem and not yours.

(Yeah, I'm making this about 99999% more simple than it actually is. But I think it's true that in these situations there's usually a lot of self-fulfilling prophecy thing going on. Like, you feel guilty because you're being nice to the other one, that shows in your behavior without you realizing it, they pick up on that and start feeling like you're acutally guilty).