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Thread: EU to end daylight savings time
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2018-09-19, 06:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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EU to end daylight savings time
About time .
European Commissioner for Transport Violeta Bulc on Friday announced that the EU will stop the twice-yearly changing of clocks across the continent in October 2019.
The practice, which was used as a means to conserve energy during the World Wars as well as the oil crises of the 1970s, became law across the bloc in 1996.
All EU countries are required to move forward by an hour on the last Sunday of March and back by an hour on the final Sunday in October.
Bulc said EU member states would have until April 2019 to decide whether they would permanently remain on summer or winter time.
Respectfully,
Brian P.Last edited by pendell; 2018-09-19 at 12:22 PM.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
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2018-09-19, 06:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to send daylight savings time
While I do agree it is a stupid, stupid practice - also because different states around the world can't agree on when to do it - and I am pretty convinced of removing it being the better idea... It's not entirely pointless. Switching to summer time all year round would mean a lot of dark in the early morning, making waking up rather more annoying. And sticking to winter time means a fewer light hours to enjoy in the summer evening. Not that hurtful but still sad.
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2018-09-19, 07:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to send daylight savings time
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
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2018-09-19, 07:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
Depends on which side of the equator you're on, too!
I prefer Standard time as we call it here in the states, which means brighter mornings and darker evenings. Part of this stems from my early career as a paper boy with an over-active imagination (what monsters could be lurking on that dark porch I have to place a newspaper on?). Part of this stems from the fact that I don't like staying up late, and when you have to wait for the sky to get dark before the fireworks start, earlier sunset is better. Darker evenings are also better for stargazing. Riding my bike to work in the morning is also better with an earlier sunrise. But I'm not biased!Last edited by Lord Torath; 2018-09-19 at 07:59 AM. Reason: Corrected typo in Title
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2018-09-19, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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2018-09-19, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to send daylight savings time
This would happen just when we're leaving the EU so it probably won't happen in the UK--have wished for the end of BST/GMT switching for years.
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2018-09-19, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
Considering China is, by decree, all one time zone, I'm sure we'll figure out how to cope with it. I mean, the US states of Arizona and Indiana have already quit changing their clocks, and it doesn't cause a huge problem. Okay, not a huge problem that I, a person who is definitely not responsible for synchronizing computer communications, am aware of.
Last edited by Lord Torath; 2018-09-19 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Fixed Title Typo
Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2018-09-19, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to send daylight savings time
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2018-09-19, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to send daylight savings time
You might want to edit the title, Brian.
And yes, this is way overdue. People have been glued to their televisions at night for two generations, so what's the point of re-arranging the clock to give them more daylight to ignore?
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2018-09-19, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to send daylight savings time
I don't know where you live, but around here I definitely get out sometimes at the applicable hours.
I don't really give a crab about daylight savings time either way. I think the excessive complaining some people do is stupid, but I'll happily believe the studies that show no real benefit to it either. What I do care about it that nice Central European time zone that keeps much of the continent in sync.
[Rest of post deleted because I remembered the no politics rule. The summary is: too bad we're losing being in sync.]Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2018-09-19 at 02:49 PM.
The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!
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2018-09-19, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to send daylight savings time
<self-edited>
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2018-09-19 at 12:16 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2018-09-19, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-09-19, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
Most of Indiana adopted DST relatively recently, actually, so that we'd be on the same time standard as the Eastern timezone that we're mostly closest to (instead of effectively switching back and forth between Eastern and Central depending on whether or not Daylight Saving was in effect.) Some of the western border counties opted not to use it/went on Central time, since their position and economic concerns are more closely aligned with that area. I think there's still like one county that just said screw it to the whole thing and is effectively their own weird microtimezone now.
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2018-09-19, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
For general edification and enjoyment: Supervillain Plan.
Last edited by Lord Torath; 2018-09-19 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Stupid Title Typo! I swear, I'm going to remember to fix it next time!
Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2018-09-19, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-09-19, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
Only for the ignorant. I've lived in Arizona. No DST is much easier. Only those who are so geo-centric to not realize that time zones exist have problems. Go educate yourselves with www.timeanddate.com. As the world business gets more global, as people's social circles get more global, understanding the simple basic about different times in different places is something everyone should learn.
Computers have no problems. They (generally) use UTC and then convert for displaying what the stupid human sitting at the keyboard wants. Ever tried looking at your timezone settings on your computer?
^^ This.
The whole stupid more daylight after work and kids in the dark is BS. IF any of those things are problems those are human made problems that are EASILY solved. The sun rises and set based upon the earth's orbit and has absolutely nothing to do with how we keep time and if we say it's is currently 6:42am or 3:55pm.
Kids getting out of school when it's dark and you parents don't want that? Change your school times. Local control and all that.
"But we can't start work an hour earlier! What would people do with their kids, or how would that effect traffic, or..." are just excuses, those states that use DST change their work hours twice per year. Doing it once, for ever, is much simpler.
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2018-09-19, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
What I think is likely to happen is that DST/BST is in operation in the winter as well as the summer, and that will be very silly indeed.
If Brexit doesn't mean we skip the whole thing entirely and stick to BST in the summer and GMT in the winter.Last edited by halfeye; 2018-09-19 at 06:20 PM.
The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.
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2018-09-19, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
Last edited by Razade; 2018-09-19 at 05:35 PM.
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2018-09-19, 07:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to send daylight savings time
Unfortunately, the code to deal with time changes will still be there, just with one MORE check likeCode:if (year < 2018 && country in eu_countries) { /* existing EU time zone code */ }
Fortunately, there's a couple of time zone library maintainers who actually have to deal with it, and the rest of us can just coast along on their hard work.
Reminds me of a certain computer science flowchart:
Code:+---------------------------------+ | Should I write my own | | time zone conversion library? | +---------------------------------+ | V +----------------+ | No | +----------------+ | V +---------------------------------+ | But what if.... | +---------------------------------+ | V +----------------+ | OMG, NO | +----------------+
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2018-09-19, 09:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
Well, one of the reasons that school finishes when it does is so it doesn't clash with regular working hours, which isn't easy to change. Having said that, the time change takes place in summer when kids would be coming home in daylight regardless? During the winter you're back on the regular time zone, so sunset is actually an hour earlier than if you had TZ+1 all year round.
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2018-09-19, 10:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
Arizona and the Navajo Nation is the fun one for USA's Daylight Savings Time Discussion. Most of Arizona doesn't do DST, but the Navajo Nation in Arizona does, but there's a chunk of Navajo Nation that's part of the Hopi Nation that doesn't. There is then another Navajo Nation bit inside the Hopi Nation chunk that does follow DST. And then that Hopi Nation part is also divided into two separate chunks, so you can like draw a straight line through all of this that has you adjusting for the presence or absence of DST like six times.
"Okay, so I'm going to quick draw and dual wield these one-pound caltrops as improvised weapons..."
---
"Oh, hey, look! Blue Eyes Black Lotus!" "Wait what, do you sacrifice a mana to the... Does it like, summon a... What would that card even do!?" "Oh, it's got a four-energy attack. Completely unviable in actual play, so don't worry about it."
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2018-09-20, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!
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2018-09-20, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
Of course my experience with the Hopis and Navajos is they don't interact with each other much. And of course, the scale of commerce and business is... probably less than a hamlet in Europe.
So of course this is an interesting piece of "time" facts, but really people deal with it and it probably has little real impact. Just like all these other "problems" that people think impact them. What would really happen if one spring people actually didn't change their clocks? Maybe people wouldn't be an hour late for work one Monday a year?
Step back and think about it. Here in the States they've changed the dates of DST and people haven't had problems with it. Removing it completely is something that you would notice for about a week, then you would adapt.
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2018-09-20, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
Oh, you'd probably notice the switch not happening. Those are the two worst weeks of the year for traffic accidents, for starters.
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2018-09-20, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
If they opt to remain on "summer time" then good for them. If they opt to remain on "winter time," then...I vehemently disagree w/ their choice....
I defend DST often, not because I like the time changes, but because too often the proposed solution is to revert back to "standard time" year-round and get rid of "daylight savings time" completely, rather than the opposite.
We (US) spend 7 months in "DST" and 5 in "standard" time, yet the one we spend less time in is "standard." At least Europe had the foresight to give countries the choice.
Having the clocks 1 hour ahead is much better. I don't care if it's still dark when I go to work in the morning, but walking out at the end of the day to pitch darkness is just dispiriting.
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2018-09-20, 06:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
Would you feel the same way if we went back to how it was originally established, and only had DST running for four and a half months?
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2018-09-20, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
When was this, exactly?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylig..._United_States
The plan was not adopted in the United States until the Standard Time Act of March 19, 1918, which confirmed the existing standard time zone system and set summer DST to begin on March 31, 1918 (reverting October 27).
The result was the Uniform Time Act of 1966 (P.L. 89-387). Beginning in 1967, the act mandated standard time within the established time zones and provided for advanced time: clocks would be advanced one hour beginning at 2:00 a.m. on the last Sunday in April and turned back one hour at 2:00 a.m. on the last Sunday in October.
Then 1973-1975, the US went to "year round" DST. Then...
In 1986 Congress enacted P.L. 99-359, amending the Uniform Time Act by changing the beginning of DST to the first Sunday in April and having the end remain the last Sunday in October.
By the Energy Policy Act of 2005, daylight saving time (DST) was extended in the United States beginning in 2007. As from that year, DST begins on the second Sunday of March and ends on the first Sunday of November.Last edited by StreamOfTheSky; 2018-09-20 at 08:20 PM.
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2018-09-20, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
While I agree with the general principle of what you're saying, in many places in Europe it doesn't actually make much of a difference. For example, in London this year daylight savings ends on October 27th, at which point sunset is already at 17:43 BST--so even if it's not dark when you leave work, it'll probably be by the time you get home. By the time you get to the end of November sunset is before 5pm even if DST were still in effect, and it stays that way until the following January. And this is in London, note--there are plenty of places in Europe, and even in the UK, which are a lot further north than that and thus get shorter winter days.
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2018-09-20, 11:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
There is a part of me that is curious why the decision must be to decide between winter or summer time and then stick with that decision, when one could lessen the extremes of the two by deciding to switch to the middle of the two. So you're just off by thirty minutes on both halves of the year, as opposed to being not-off half a year and off by an hour for the rest of the half, give or take.
But then the other part of me knows that would be ridiculously reckless and could lead to a whole cascade of adding, changing, and removing time zones that will just make even more problems."Okay, so I'm going to quick draw and dual wield these one-pound caltrops as improvised weapons..."
---
"Oh, hey, look! Blue Eyes Black Lotus!" "Wait what, do you sacrifice a mana to the... Does it like, summon a... What would that card even do!?" "Oh, it's got a four-energy attack. Completely unviable in actual play, so don't worry about it."
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2018-09-20, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: EU to end daylight savings time
As a teen who used to hang out in RP chatrooms on Yahoo in the 90s (when we'd all post things like "I will be back 6 hours from now" when we left to explain when we'd be online again since timezone were a pain), I developed the opinion that everyone world-wide should just be on GMT (and use 24 rather than 12 hour time), and post the hours they actually plan to be awake, at work, and/or doing stuff in appropriate places as needed. Twenty years later, this still has some appeal.
I mean, why does it matter that the work day starts at 8 am rather than 2 pm or 3 am? We'd just adjust to the idea of whichever hours actually made sense for local business hours in each place and it would be much less confusing to people in other places in the world when they saw a time posted.