Tweak My Helmed Horror's Spell Immunity

[Twigwit]

So for an adventure I'm developing I'm using the Helmed Horror in a rather prominent position, and I was wondering if it was possible exchange out their spell immunities to make them more of a mage slayer. Having heat metal seems like a no brainer, but I was curious if the good people here could think of other control or damage spells that the HH should be guarded from.

For reference, here's their resistances and immunities:
Damage Resistances: bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks that aren't adamantine
Damage Immunities: force, necrotic, poison
Condition Immunities: blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned, stunned

[Kadesh]

Tbh, the ones listed are pretty decent. It is a Construct, can Fly, has Blindsight, immune to Force, Charm, Poison (damage and condition) , and Frighten, so at the level it is expected to fight a party, most things the party can do to skew things in their favour with reliability are already unavailable.

Making it immune to the heaviest damage dealing spells in the game are going to make to still difficult to fight. The fights essentially rely on casting magic weapon on the highest ranged attack bonus in the party while the mages shoot cantrips, clerics heal the meatshield, meatshield meatshield, and rogues use their magic bow to put magic sneak attack holes in it.

[Scarytincan]

Slow and web might be worth considering, as are banishment and hypnotic pattern, although those ones aren't ongoing if the party wants to hit it.

[JackPhoenix]

Heat Metal is a waste. Only bards, druids and forge clerics have access to it, making it pretty rare, and it doesn't actually do much against HH. The spell targets objects, not creatures, so you can't target the construct itself, and even if you could, the heated object isn't damaged, only creatures in contact with it. You could use it to disarm it, which reduces its damage or AC, if it drops its sword or shield, but that's propably not worth of a 2nd level slot and concentration.

[Kane0]

Fireball, Banishment and maybe a debuff spell that you see your party use a lot.

[MrStabby]

Well I would take as a first step a question about what role the HH plays in the world. Who created them and to defend from what?

Are they something that are found as a 1 or 2 of in a place of are they found in crowds?

If they are to help protect against high level wizards and come in hordes then it will dictate different spells to if they were used to face off against persecution by a religious order of clerics.

Then you have to decide if you will allow heat metal to work against their armour.


My default is: spirit guardians, fireball and wall of fire for when they are expected to be deployed in multiples or supporting other other NPCs.

When they are expected to guard something alone or to complete a task alone: Heat metal, Magic Missile, Scorching Ray or sometimes shadowblade.

[Scarytincan]

Magic missile would be redundant as they are immune to force damage

[MrStabby]

Magic missile would be redundant as they are immune to force damage

Good point.

[Keravath]

It might have been worthwhile to quote the rest of the helmed horror stat block

Magic Resistance. The helmed horror has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.

Spell Immunity. The helmed horror is immune to three spells chosen by its creator. Typical immunities include fireball, heat metal, and lightning bolt.

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I would say that since the typical immunities include "heat metal", it would be reasonable to assume that the spell would otherwise affect the helmed horror if this immunity is not present.

The target of heat metal is a "manufactured metal object" which would include metal armor or a metal construct. Any creature in contact with the metal takes damage. The start of the monster manual defines monsters as creatures and further lists the subtypes of monsters including constructs. So a construct is a creature and would take damage from heat metal.

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As for what spells to grant immunity for your helmed horror ... you could base it on what your players tend to use most. If the players don't have heat metal then you could leave that one off. On the other hand, heat metal has no save and will do 2d8+d8/SL overcast damage every round as a bonus action so it could be a very effective way to deal with a helmed horror if they weren't usually immune.

Helmed horrors also have a 20AC which makes them harder to hit and the magic resistance makes them more difficult to affect with spells ... however, it is only a CR 4 so it is probably a decent opponent for tier1 parties. It is very strong offensively but only gets two attacks/turn at +8 to hit for d8+4 damage on each one, so the damage output is somewhat low but consistent but they will be very hard to kill.

I'm not sure I would change up the usual spell immunities at all unless you are trying to deal with the typical tactics of a specific party (or as was mentioned above .. the spell immunities fit a specific role that the helmed horror was expected to fill).

[Callak_Remier]

Slow and web might be worth considering, as are banishment and hypnotic pattern, although those ones aren't ongoing if the party wants to hit it.

Hypnotic pattern is a charm effect. He's already immune

[MrStabby]

I think I wouldn't worry too much about banishment. Thinking as the bad guy playing the odds, expending a level 4 spell to force a save (with advantage) to remove one of these would seem to be expending a decent amount of party resources for the effect. The HH doesn't do enough damage to really justify this to my mind.

I also think web can be less of an issue given the flying ability. On the other hand, I could see slow be a useful immunity if you were running multiples or they have support from other creatures.

Depending on how you rule it, divination spells could be great fun. If you rule immunity to arcane eye means they remain unseen by the eye you could spring a mean trap. I would say the same for invisibility spells only they have blindsight. Maybe pass without trace, if you rule it denies the bonus if they are immune.

I think fairy fire might be a great candidate. Your party will want every chance to hit these guys with an AC of twenty. Sure, the advantage on saves means the party will maybe want to catch some other creatures to justify it.

[JackPhoenix]

I would say that since the typical immunities include "heat metal", it would be reasonable to assume that the spell would otherwise affect the helmed horror if this immunity is not present.

Or it might mean the developers didn't read their own rules. It wouldn't be the first time.

The target of heat metal is a "manufactured metal object" which would include metal armor or a metal construct. Any creature in contact with the metal takes damage. The start of the monster manual defines monsters as creatures and further lists the subtypes of monsters including constructs. So a construct is a creature and would take damage from heat metal.

Creature isn't an object. No, not even constructs or animated objects, despite the name. Thus, they aren't valid targets for Heat Metal.

And even if they were valid targets... Heat Metal damages *creature in contact with the object*. Not the object its cast on... so if you cast it on a construct (which, again, you can't), it won't damage itself.

Construct would take damage from Heat Metal if it was in contact with an object the spell is used on. That still works somewhat... Helmed Horrors wield swords and shields... but they aren't any more vulnerable to the spell than normal humanoid wielding the same would... less, actually, as the humanoid would likely also wear armor, while Helmed Horrors *are* armor.

[MrStabby]

Well the MM says they are wearing plate mail (under the AC in the stat block), so just target that.

[JackPhoenix]

Well the MM says they are wearing plate mail (under the AC in the stat block), so just target that.

They aren't *wearing* plate armor. They *are* plate armor.

[gloryblaze]

They aren't *wearing* plate armor. They *are* plate armor.

Animated Armor (which explicitly is armor) lists its AC source as "natural armor". It would thus be a reasonable ruling, IMO, to then assume that a helmed horror is indeed (mechanically speaking) "wearing" plate armor rather than simply "being" plate armor, despite the description of the monster indicating otherwise. The other ruling would be equally reasonable, of course.

[JackPhoenix]

Animated Armor (which explicitly is armor) lists its AC source as "natural armor". It would thus be a reasonable ruling, IMO, to then assume that a helmed horror is indeed (mechanically speaking) "wearing" plate armor rather than simply "being" plate armor, despite the description of the monster indicating otherwise. The other ruling would be equally reasonable, of course.

Huh. Haven't noticed that, should've checked it before. It's weird that it's the only construct without natural armor...

[bc56]

A good choice might be Earthbind. Flight is a huge buff for the horror, which can use that for insane hit and run tactics.

[Kadesh]

Huh. Haven't noticed that, should've checked it before. It's weird that it's the only construct without natural armor...

Their statblock states that common immunities include Heat Metal. Surely that should give a clue?