barbarian druid rogue build help

[kulosle]

okay so I was looking at rogue and realized that you can get always on advantage and thus always sneak attack by dipping into barbarian for 2 levels. But then your more likely to be hit so we need to add some hit points. There are a few ways of doing this but the most fun way that came to mind was another 2 level dip into druid for wild shaping. and barbarian helps keep the wild shape forms ac up. also raging to reduce the damage. later add some magic items to boost dex and con even while wild shaped and we should be golden.

So gm already approved the build but I just want to know if its worth all of this. we start at level one which makes the first few levels very dicey. cause the whole build doesn't really come online till level 5. I might take more then 2 levels of barbarian to get more rages per day and maybe grab extra attack.

questions
does this all work together the way I think it does?
what order do I take the levels in. (rogue is strongest first level in the long term but worse in the short term)
what background is best (don't think it matters too much)
what race is best (probably hill dwarf or human variant?)
how many barbarian levels would you suggest? I think 6 at most.

[bid]

okay so I was looking at rogue and realized that you can get always on advantage and thus always sneak attack by dipping into barbarian for 2 levels. But then your more likely to be hit so we need to add some hit points. There are a few ways of doing this but the most fun way that came to mind was another 2 level dip into druid for wild shaping. and barbarian helps keep the wild shape forms ac up. also raging to reduce the damage. later add some magic items to boost dex and con even while wild shaped and we should be golden.

Swashbuckler does that too.

Wildshapes have no finesse, so moon rogue isn't as nice as barbarogue.

[Lunali]

Natural weapons are not finesse weapons and thus cannot be used for sneak attack, same for unarmed attacks. Also, while using reckless attack you have to attack with strength, which you can still do with finesse weapons but it doesn't generally play to your strengths, though it does mean you get the bonus damage from rage.

[GlenSmash!]

Note that if you are relying on Reckless attack for sneak attack, you have to attack with the finesse weapon using Strength. Otherwise no advantage.

Still if you are prepared for it it's a very nice combo.

[kulosle]

huh so what if I am like an ape or something that can throw weapons does that fix it?

[Snowbluff]

huh so what if I am like an ape or something that can throw weapons does that fix it?

An ape would work, but reckless attack is melee attacks only.

I would say barb/rogue is good and so is barb/druid (I'm playing one).

The best race is Ghostwise halfling (I'm playing one) if you're going to be in wildshape a lot.

From barb, I'd say get 3 for bear totem, as losing HP to spells SUCKS. 5 levels is good with rogue for extra attack.
Rogue I'd take to at least 7 for uncanny dodge, a very good reaction that can be used even when raging.
As you can see this doesn't leave a lot of room for druid, but moon druid 6 and 9 are good break off points for higher CR forms, but I dunno how good they'll be at that point.

[Expected]

A STR Barbarian/Rogue with a rapier and shield would be an interesting and damaging build. Advantage is not difficult to get, however (Owl Find Familiar, Cunning Action Hide, Shield Master Shove, Battle Master Fighter Trip Attack, etc.), so don't change an entire build around Reckless Attack if you feel like it'd be difficult to generate advantage.

[Citan]

okay so I was looking at rogue and realized that you can get always on advantage and thus always sneak attack by dipping into barbarian for 2 levels. But then your more likely to be hit so we need to add some hit points. There are a few ways of doing this but the most fun way that came to mind was another 2 level dip into druid for wild shaping. and barbarian helps keep the wild shape forms ac up. also raging to reduce the damage. later add some magic items to boost dex and con even while wild shaped and we should be golden.

So gm already approved the build but I just want to know if its worth all of this. we start at level one which makes the first few levels very dicey. cause the whole build doesn't really come online till level 5. I might take more then 2 levels of barbarian to get more rages per day and maybe grab extra attack.

questions
does this all work together the way I think it does?
what order do I take the levels in. (rogue is strongest first level in the long term but worse in the short term)
what background is best (don't think it matters too much)
what race is best (probably hill dwarf or human variant?)
how many barbarian levels would you suggest? I think 6 at most.

Hi!
First things first

Swashbuckler does that too.

Wildshapes have no finesse, so moon rogue isn't as nice as barbarogue.

Nope, it does not.
Swashbuckler makes it so that you...
DO NOT NEED "advantage"
IF "nobody else close".
Which...
- is kinda restrictive (I mean, certainly workable usually, but not always).
- does not generate advantage (which is great to land Sneak Attack).

@OP.
Yeah, it's great, but it would be even greater if you pushed Barbarian to 3 not too late (Bear Barbarian: resist all damage BEFORE applying Uncanny Dodge ;)) and possibly 5 much later.
You will be a monstruous beast of resilience. :)

I'd go as such:
Start: imo a tie
- Rogue 1: you're a Rogue and you don't plan on being an AT so might as well get Dexterity proficiency and the largest skill array. With that said,...
- Barb 1: considering high DEX, Danger Sense and later Evasion, you will already be great at avoiding DEX dangers. All the while, STR effects that cripple movements and CON-effects that cripple HP or poison you can be as or more dangerous. And you also get a big boost in HP since level 1 is always max die.
I'd personallly pick Barb, but both are good.
Anwyays

Level 5 target : Barb 1 -> Rogue 1 -> Barb 2 -> Rogue 2 -> Barb 3 OR Rogue 3.
Depending on whether you plan on following suggestion to get Bear and the archetype you want.

Level 8 target: Barb 3 / Rogue 5 or Barb 2 / Rogue 6: same comment.

level 10 target (if you didn't stop at Barb 2)
- Barb 3 / Rogue 7 (Expertise, Evasion) OR Barb 5 / Rogue 5 (Extra Attack, +10 feet,

Have fun :)

Now if you want to get Druid into the mix that complexifies things much.
I'd honestly skip because of that personally, as much as I love Druid otherwise (and especially since Sneak Attack will never work as Wild Shape)
But if you wanted to make that I'd crank the two Druid levels either very early ("I'll be a Rogue later") or after you got at least one ASI and both Rogue and Barb archetype features.

[bid]

Nope, it does not.
Swashbuckler makes it so that you...
DO NOT NEED "advantage"
IF "nobody else close".
Which...
- is kinda restrictive (I mean, certainly workable usually, but not always).
- does not generate advantage (which is great to land Sneak Attack).

I don't see the point you're trying to make...

OP wants reckless attack to use advantage to get melee SA every turn.
Swashbuckler gets melee SA every turn.
Goal fulfilled.

Moreover, there's nothing restrictive in that feature.
- either someone is there, and you can SA as a rogue
- or nobody is there, and you can SA with rackish audacity.
And you don't care about wasting your BA on TWF attack, since you won't use CA to disengage.

[Citan]

I don't see the point you're trying to make...

OP wants reckless attack to use advantage to get melee SA every turn.
Swashbuckler gets melee SA every turn.
Goal fulfilled.

Moreover, there's nothing restrictive in that feature.
- either someone is there, and you can SA as a rogue
- or nobody is there, and you can SA with rackish audacity.
And you don't care about wasting your BA on TWF attack, since you won't use CA to disengage.

Yeah, clearly you don't see, but I daresay it's because you didn't even try to, because your past posts on forum show that you are an experienced enough player to normally have every relevant rule needed in mind.

The point is: with Barbarian you get advantage "at-will". Which...
- not only ensures Sneak Attack can be applied whatever the situation (including when your target enemy has a close-by friend: IIRC Swashbuckler does not cover that but I may be mistaken though, no book to check right now)
- but also provides advantage on the attack roll, which means much higher chance to land Sneak Attack on first try, which mean higher chance to have a completely free decision on how to use Cunning Action.
- without needing any other investment or action economy.
See? That wasn't that hard to deduce.

Also, your last sentence shows confusion between personal taste and argument, which is sad: there are still many reasons why the character would still want to use a bonus action either on disengage or additional attack, it's meaningless to put it aside "by principle" (especially in your example because it means chance to miss first attack is much higher than the dual-class).

[Corran]

Moreover, there's nothing restrictive in that feature.
- either someone is there, and you can SA as a rogue
- or nobody is there, and you can SA with rackish audacity.

There is the restriction that you must have no creature (including enemies) other than your target within 5' of you when you make the attack. So if you can't position in the right angle against a certain target that you want to hit, then you need to search for a different target. A speed boost (wood elf, mobile, etc) or unconventional movement (misty step, halfling nimbleness, etc) help of course in that respect (but I wouldn't say any of these would be mandatory). Granted, this probably wont come up often.

[bid]

There is the restriction that you must have no creature (including enemies) other than your target within 5' of you when you make the attack.

Oh, that's what I missed. Thank you.

[kulosle]

so are we sure natural weapons aren't finesse weappns. I just went through a list of low cr beasts and some of them definitely seem to be using their dex for to hit and damage.

[bid]

so are we sure natural weapons aren't finesse weappns. I just went through a list of low cr beasts and some of them definitely seem to be using their dex for to hit and damage.

Monks also use Dex, it doesn't make their weapons (or hands/feet) finesse. So it's not only beasts that have that limitation.

Your DM might still allow it for your concept, it might add a cool flavor to your character. That's not a ruling we can make though.

[Ganymede]

It sounds like you are really hazy in how you envision your character. "I want constant advantage" is not much to go on, whether narratively or otherwise.

Could you perhaps share the source of your character's fury that inspired him/her to walk a primal path?