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  1. - Top - End - #421
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    i only recently noticed the green thing attatched to Big Ear's hand. wasn't sure what it was.

    did some digging, it's the magic shield that gives an armor bonus.

    guess fumbles didn't hold on to it
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  2. - Top - End - #422
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    Theory: Kore will get the helmet on, and then through the golem’s eyes see himself for the first time in centuries. Horrified at what he has become, he destroys himself.
    Someone's an optimist.
    Nah, at least half the party will be horribly mutilated and/or killed before they narrowly escape with Kore still pursuing them.
    With the golem because turnlimits are for PCs he gets a turn for every soul he has eaten.

    On a second thought, I prefer your version.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

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  3. - Top - End - #423
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    I'm thinking about that poor demon that made a deal with Dies Horribly. Had she done it with Kore...

    They could throw the helmet into the crevice, just to see what happens. But, if they were able to make Kore wear it, he would spend two turns immobile. Even flatfooted, maybe, and the golem is already damaged.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  4. - Top - End - #424
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaln View Post
    If the helm is a tight fit for a goblin that is about the size of a five year old human child, how is it supposed to fit on the head of a dwarf?
    Magical items typically resize to fit the creature putting it on. The problem with Ears is that it is (re)sized to fit his head, because that's the part that would be wearing the item. That doesn't take ears into account so they're still getting in the way. That shouldn't be an issue with Kore. But putting an item on an enemy seems pretty tricky to begin with so that won't necessarily help all that much.

  5. - Top - End - #425
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    I knew Big Ears wasn't going to be able to pound Kore into paste with the golem. But I figured it would be because he'd have another crisis of faith.

    Glad to see it was because the helmet wouldn't fit.

  6. - Top - End - #426
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    If the helmet doesn't fit, you mustn't rage quit!
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  7. - Top - End - #427
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissou View Post
    Magical items typically resize to fit the creature putting it on. The problem with Ears is that it is (re)sized to fit his head, because that's the part that would be wearing the item. That doesn't take ears into account so they're still getting in the way. That shouldn't be an issue with Kore. But putting an item on an enemy seems pretty tricky to begin with so that won't necessarily help all that much.
    I kind want to see the helmet get confused by all the additional heads and wildly shifting between the size of Kore's and the size of one of the soul-trapped-thingies.
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  8. - Top - End - #428
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I kind want to see the helmet get confused by all the additional heads and wildly shifting between the size of Kore's and the size of one of the soul-trapped-thingies.
    Ooh, what if the soul-head-thingies each got a shot at controlling the golem, too?

  9. - Top - End - #429
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    I don't see how putting the helmet on Kore would even help. He already knows what it does by this point, so any confusion you caused him would be extremely short lived.

  10. - Top - End - #430
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I don't see how putting the helmet on Kore would even help. He already knows what it does by this point, so any confusion you caused him would be extremely short lived.
    It would hamper his ability to protect himself. The golem isn't a precision weapon, so if theyre in melee range with him, they at least have the possibility of keeping him on his back foot and distracted.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  11. - Top - End - #431
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    It would hamper his ability to protect himself. The golem isn't a precision weapon, so if theyre in melee range with him, they at least have the possibility of keeping him on his back foot and distracted.
    And if he already damaged it enough it wouldnt be very effective at all. But in all honesty, if they can get close enough to put a helmet on him, they can bury a sword in his skull just as easily.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
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  12. - Top - End - #432
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    And if he already damaged it enough it wouldnt be very effective at all. But in all honesty, if they can get close enough to put a helmet on him, they can bury a sword in his skull just as easily.
    ... but it will be Fumbles who does that (I mean, if anyone, then him). And who knows, if the captured souls each get a turn, it'll be a particularly gruesome form of proxy-suicide.

  13. - Top - End - #433
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    ... but it will be Fumbles who does that (I mean, if anyone, then him). And who knows, if the captured souls each get a turn, it'll be a particularly gruesome form of proxy-suicide.
    Maybe that could happen, it would fit in well with this comics style of "OH DEAR GOD!!! BLARRRRRGHHHH!!!!" Im just saying it sounds a little too complicated and relies on uncertain guesses rather more than "See head, stab head" the GAP are likely to rely on.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  14. - Top - End - #434
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    And if he already damaged it enough it wouldnt be very effective at all. But in all honesty, if they can get close enough to put a helmet on him, they can bury a sword in his skull just as easily.
    Considering the big glowing rift already there in his head I’m not sure that would kill him.

    Truth be told I’m not sure anything can kill him. At least, as long as the Prissan isn’t destroyed.
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  15. - Top - End - #435
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    maybe he made a trade:
    be unkillable till all evil is destroyed for the price of his „detect evil at will“
    * my emphasis

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  16. - Top - End - #436
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Maybe that could happen, it would fit in well with this comics style of "OH DEAR GOD!!! BLARRRRRGHHHH!!!!" Im just saying it sounds a little too complicated and relies on uncertain guesses rather more than "See head, stab head" the GAP are likely to rely on.
    Tried and proven Conan's school of fencing.

    That being said while they do have a knack for solid tactical plans utilising local environment and available resources (here with the golem, Thaco vs Goblinslayer) as well as winging it on the fly (the rope trick with the axe for example), they might not have a well thought out plan B for the current situation - even plan A was certainly rushed, since Kore was pretty close already.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  17. - Top - End - #437
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    So... what are the chances Big Ears are gonna cut of his own ears in order to be able to use the helmet?

  18. - Top - End - #438
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post
    So... what are the chances Big Ears are gonna cut of his own ears in order to be able to use the helmet?
    Dude, the golem isnt THAT overwhelmingly powerful. Its a useful tool for getting in some free hits before they get into the danger zone. Self mutilation is a bit much for something like that. Especially for the 4 round duration it has.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  19. - Top - End - #439
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Agi Hammerthief View Post
    maybe he made a trade:
    be unkillable till all evil is destroyed for the price of his „detect evil at will“
    If the player was smart, then he should partner with another paladin. Magic Circle of Evil, Zone of truth, and discern lies should ensure the second paladin is trustworthy.

    I'd add that Kore has a prideful flaw. "Detect Evil? Evil is what I say it is!"
    Hello world. . .

  20. - Top - End - #440
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by archon_huskie View Post
    If the player was smart, then he should partner with another paladin. Magic Circle of Evil, Zone of truth, and discern lies should ensure the second paladin is trustworthy.

    I'd add that Kore has a prideful flaw. "Detect Evil? Evil is what I say it is!"
    Yet we see him monologue several times trying to justify himself that X is evil and so must be destroyed.

    Also when he met Kin he actually engaged in discussion instead of just attacking first and seemed willing to just let her go for a moment.

    Kore's mind is pretty messed up basically. Heck, the place where his brain should be is just a glowing something covered in screaming souls. That can't be good for healthy sanity.

    In the other hand as they say sanity is for the weak, and Kore's basically the strongest character in the main story so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  21. - Top - End - #441
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Kore had cast Detect Evil long ago, and since then he assumes that anything he detects (that is to say, anything that he sees, hears, smells, touches, or tastes) is evil.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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  22. - Top - End - #442
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Yet we see him monologue several times trying to justify himself that X is evil and so must be destroyed.
    Also when he met Kin he actually engaged in discussion instead of just attacking first and seemed willing to just let her go for a moment.
    Kore's mind is pretty messed up basically. Heck, the place where his brain should be is just a glowing something covered in screaming souls. That can't be good for healthy sanity.
    In the other hand as they say sanity is for the weak, and Kore's basically the strongest character in the main story so far.
    Kore seems to be basically the avatar of the worldview that the comic as a whole is subverting -- if you look like a human, you are one of the good guys, and humanoids (in the AD&D sense) and monsters are inherently the evil-doers. When he saw from-waist-up-human Kin in a fog bank, he saw a human, and thus good and was frankly overly trusting. If an entity is a humanoid, or seen working with them, they are othered, and thus evil. I'm frankly, not that sold on Kore as a big bad villain ('he's such a badass, he only has one little lightning-bolt shaped eyehole to see through, and is otherwise completely metal-encased. I mean, he even has a tower shield... on rollers!" is cartoonish in my book, not badass), but he is a pretty consistent in his characterization. He's not insane, he's racism writ large.

  23. - Top - End - #443
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Also when he met Kin he actually engaged in discussion instead of just attacking first and seemed willing to just let her go for a moment.
    only because her tail was obscured by the smoke.
    * my emphasis

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  24. - Top - End - #444
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Did you forgot that the first time Kore shows up, he murders a dwarf kid?

    Or how more recently Kore promised to go murder a whole dwarf clan after he's finished with the goblins?

    Looking human or even like a fellow dwarf won't save you from Kore's fury.

    But Kin in specific wasn't instantly targeted for murder like many dwarves were. And she has green hair. That's not natural human hair color.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-08-05 at 08:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  25. - Top - End - #445
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Did you forgot that the first time Kore shows up, he murders a dwarf kid?
    I guess that isn't explicitly included in "or seen working with them," since the kid is a little young to be working, but I thought that the point was clear. It's specifically mentioned in the comic where he does this, that it is the kids being tainted by its exposure to the humanoids that makes him needing to be slain.

  26. - Top - End - #446
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Did you forgot that the first time Kore shows up, he murders a dwarf kid?

    Or how more recently Kore promised to go murder a whole dwarf clan after he's finished with the goblins?

    Looking human or even like a fellow dwarf won't save you from Kore's fury.

    But Kin in specific wasn't instantly targeted for murder like many dwarves were. And she has green hair. That's not natural human hair color.
    The thing is, it all followed a chain of logic for Kore. The dwarf kid was killed because he was "tainted by evil" since he had grown up with monsters. Then when forgath, another dwarf of the same clan actually fought against him to protect goblins he reasoned the entire dwarf clan must be corrupted. Not exactly "once is chance, twice is coincidence, three times is conspiracy" but close. With Kin he had no frame of reference, he saw a "human" female who had not yet dont anything to be labeled as evil. He doesnt just kill everything in line of sight, thats mainly monsters, he waits for proof of evil before killing off anything else. Unfortunately the bar of evil is very very low for him.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  27. - Top - End - #447
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    The thing is, it all followed a chain of logic for Kore. The dwarf kid was killed because he was "tainted by evil" since he had grown up with monsters. Then when forgath, another dwarf of the same clan actually fought against him to protect goblins he reasoned the entire dwarf clan must be corrupted. Not exactly "once is chance, twice is coincidence, three times is conspiracy" but close. With Kin he had no frame of reference, he saw a "human" female who had not yet dont anything to be labeled as evil. He doesnt just kill everything in line of sight, thats mainly monsters, he waits for proof of evil before killing off anything else. Unfortunately the bar of evil is very very low for him.
    Actually, why did Forgath fight Kore? They could have just let him through. They got some bolts, but he sprays a lot, and might not have been targeting them.

    Also, Kore could cast remove curse on Idle and Bumper. That would be a funny meeting.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  28. - Top - End - #448
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Actually, why did Forgath fight Kore? They could have just let him through. They got some bolts, but he sprays a lot, and might not have been targeting them.

    Also, Kore could cast remove curse on Idle and Bumper. That would be a funny meeting.
    So Goblins and MinMax could open the passage. He didn't miss them. He was shooting them for being EVIL, by associating with Goblins (i.e. fighting each other). Forgath knew Kore can't be reasoned with.

    Kore would kill Idle for either A) being EVIL due to being non-human B) for allowing herself to become non-human. Bumper would be killed for associating with Idle.

  29. - Top - End - #449
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    That being said, I wonder what kores response would have been had minmax and forgath been actively fighting the goblins when he showed up? Would he have worked with them to wipe out the GAP then moved on? Killed them too?
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  30. - Top - End - #450
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    The thing is, it all followed a chain of logic for Kore. The dwarf kid was killed because he was "tainted by evil" since he had grown up with monsters.
    Not even that. The orc told him the child was kidnapped.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Actually, why did Forgath fight Kore? They could have just let him through. They got some bolts, but he sprays a lot, and might not have been targeting them.
    Are you really going to bet on "the cursed scourge of the realm" accidentally shooting you?
    Also, Kore totally shot first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    That being said, I wonder what kores response would have been had minmax and forgath been actively fighting the goblins when he showed up? Would he have worked with them to wipe out the GAP then moved on? Killed them too?
    They were fighting them when he showed up. If the GAP could hear Chief scream, Kore could hear them yelling and fighting.
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