Pathfinder: Kingmaker

[Inarius]

When I rolled my Inquisitor merc, only one voiceset played (Confident iirc), the others simply remained silent. Don't know if that's intentional.

BTW: have you noticed? The game offers very little information on the spellcasting capabilities of the classes. Unless I simply missed it, the ingame class overview doesn't tell when and how many spell levels a particular class can access, let alone which ones. That's certainly not a big deal for tabletop players, but gamers who don't know the 3E chassis will be rather clueless. Also, the Wiki contains spell lists for all the primary casters now, but not for the Paladin and Ranger. Now that's a tad annoying.

My aforementioned buddy is pretty miffed because he rolled a Diviner Wizard, and there are only _4_ (Arcane) Divination spells in the entire game. Conjuration is also not the domineering school we know from the tabletop. Some of the best Conj spells have been moved to other schools, for instance Web is Transmutation here.

The voiceset thing must be a bug, every time I make a new merc I get only 1-3 of the voices to actually play while the remaining ones stay silent.

As for the spellcasting classes, yeah its really bad in general. Even the spell descriptions are awful. There are more than a few spells with awfully vague descriptions. If I hadn't played 3.5 I would have no idea what those spells do and even then its been like a decade so my memory is spotty at best.

Then there's the lack of info on prestige classes. I'm just aiming for duelist on my sword saint/aldori defender since my stats line up with it, but I really can't remember what specifically the class offers.

I don't mind that- I mean if I wander into the fire giant cave at level 2 that is my problem- I should not get a weak fire giant.
But a warg with a +16 attack in a starting area? Why does that warg have a +16 to attack?

The warg is probably a foe that you're meant to go back for. There's even a demi lich encounter in that area with like 36 AC. I started the encounter and after about 3 rounds I was just like NOPE, Reload.

[Eldonauran]

I don't mind that- I mean if I wander into the fire giant cave at level 2 that is my problem- I should not get a weak fire giant.
But a warg with a +16 attack in a starting area? Why does that warg have a +16 to attack?

Oh, THAT beastie. At the tree. I admit I never actually went back to check his attack rolls. I was level 3 at the time and had a leopard (and a smilodon) with around 26 ac (Mage Armor!) and summoned 1d3 Celestial dogs for tanking. Him and his three wolves did not last very long and his amulet of mighty fist +1 was totally worth it. The dogs did die and the cats took serious beatings, but we did it.

But I can see how that fight would be a problem. Sometimes you need to run away. Like that damn demilich. I'll get him as soon as I hit level 10. *grumble*

[Stuebi]

I tried the game on a friends Account, and so far I'm very glad I did not buy it myself.

The main problem, as far as I can tell, the d20 system just doesn't translate well into a videogame. I want to cry everytime a combat round plays through and all you get to see is "Miss, Miss, Miss" from both enemies and your own companions. The game is also not terribly good at telling you things, the menus are in desperate need of Tooltips, or the game just needs a general Almanach somewhere. When you do a game like this, have the mercy to assume that not everybody just knows Pathfinder rules and can quote them from memory. Especially if not all the rules actually apply.

The difficulty settings seem really far apart. The Default Hard Setting forces me to inch my way forward, even the Tutorial was an absolute slog. Normal on the other Hand flip-flops between no challenge at all and Encounters that seem borderline unwinable. I had no problem with the swarms personally, I had grabbed a few flasks to throw at them before. What ruined my day was a werewolf and some weird bear-treant thing, both of which seemed like a very sudden spike out of nowhere.

The companions are really subpar, which is sad, because I usually try to stick to the ones with story so you don't just carry 7 faceless schlubs around. But considering how bad they actually are, I just can't be bothered... but then you realize that you have to buy custom companions for a sizeable amount of Gold. It's a really bad sign if I feel like I have to run cheat engine after barely an hour of playtime. Why do they cost money in the first place? If you have balancing concerns, make non-useless companions or limit me to a certain partysize depending on level. It's really sad too, because I actually really like some of the actual characters.

I haven't really played any further, because the game ate my savefile, and I frankly don't believe it's worth starting over again. Although a few fixes and a mod that makes custom companions free or cheaper would already make it more bearable.

[Firechanter]

Yeah, I'm totally with you there; custom companions should be free or at least cheaper; after all you also have to outfit them. And it's really annoying that the premade companions are so gimped just so that they can be special snowflakes.
Well, technically I suppose Valerie isn't even that bad due to the limitations of the game engine, if you manage to get her to the front line first. But she's also the companion whose personality doesn't appeal to me at all, so I see no reason to keep her for the interaction, and you can build a Merc to tank just as well (or better).

--

Some thoughts about Beastmasters:
As mentioned above, there are no less than six classes that can get a pet, from Mad Dog Barbarian to Sylvan Sorcerer. Each of them has some unique benefits and some drawbacks. Let me try to sort them a bit, and feel free to chime in:

* Barbarian (Mad Dog)
+ Full BAB class, Martial proficiencies, Full Pet progression (so you don't need Boon Companion)
- no spells, can't buff the pet
Verdict: probably the weakest choice (next to Ranger)

* Cleric (Animal Domain)
+ reasonable martial skills, 9 level spellcasting, plenty of healing built-in
- rather MAD if you want to engage in physical combat and channel energy; no dedicated pet buff spells, reduced pet progression

* Druid
+ super versatile, Full Pet, 9-level spellcasting, Wild Shape, option to go Cha-Based, dedicated Pet Buff spells, what have you.
- pretty MAD if you want it all; still, rolling a Druid always feels a bit like cheating to me.

* Inquisitor (Animal Domain)
+ reasonable martial skills, 6 level spellcating
- reduced Pet progression (need Boon Companion); no tailored Buff spells on your spell list
Note: you can combine Animal Domain with Monster Tactician signifiantly expand your zoo.

* Inquisitor (Huntsmaster AT)
+ as above, but Full Pet, benefits from Teamwork feats
- other AT features are weakish, like Favoured Enemy that will be useless most of the time; no tailored pet buff spells

* Ranger
+ Full BAB, good combat skills
- reduced Pet progression, poor spellcasting
Note: ironically, the Ranger - who in older D&D edition was the ONLY class that got a pet - is probably the worst choice to spec as Beastmaster.

* Sorcerer (Sylvan)
+ 9 level spellcasting, some exclusive defensive spells that work extremely well on your pet, like Mage Armor and Shield
- has no business engaging in physical combat, many AT features seem rather useless.

So much for starters; did I miss anything? Which one(s) would or do you prefer?

[Aotrs Commander]

Mmm. Definitely gonna leave this for a few patches, I think, from the sound of things, let them get some of the bugs out and maybe fix a few of the flaws, maybe.

No rush. I have plenty of other games to play in the meantime, and they already have my pennies. It took War for the Overworld a goodly while to go from its dubious release state up to the level it is (and personally, I think that level is nudging DK1, now which is about as high a praise as you can get.)

I mean, I haven't played Pillars of Eternity 2 proper since I found all the companion bugs and at this point I'm, like, "well, isn't the third expansion due sometimes this year anyway, might as well wait for that anyway."

At the very least, not gonna touch it until the save-eating bugs are definitely nixed, that's a pretty severe one.

[Sloanzilla]

I tried the game on a friends Account, and so far I'm very glad I did not buy it myself.

The main problem, as far as I can tell, the d20 system just doesn't translate well into a videogame. I want to cry everytime a combat round plays through and all you get to see is "Miss, Miss, Miss" from both enemies and your own companions. The game is also not terribly good at telling you things, the menus are in desperate need of Tooltips, or the game just needs a general Almanach somewhere. When you do a game like this, have the mercy to assume that not everybody just knows Pathfinder rules and can quote them from memory. Especially if not all the rules actually apply.

The difficulty settings seem really far apart. The Default Hard Setting forces me to inch my way forward, even the Tutorial was an absolute slog. Normal on the other Hand flip-flops between no challenge at all and Encounters that seem borderline unwinable. I had no problem with the swarms personally, I had grabbed a few flasks to throw at them before. What ruined my day was a werewolf and some weird bear-treant thing, both of which seemed like a very sudden spike out of nowhere.

The companions are really subpar, which is sad, because I usually try to stick to the ones with story so you don't just carry 7 faceless schlubs around. But considering how bad they actually are, I just can't be bothered... but then you realize that you have to buy custom companions for a sizeable amount of Gold. It's a really bad sign if I feel like I have to run cheat engine after barely an hour of playtime. Why do they cost money in the first place? If you have balancing concerns, make non-useless companions or limit me to a certain partysize depending on level. It's really sad too, because I actually really like some of the actual characters.

I haven't really played any further, because the game ate my savefile, and I frankly don't believe it's worth starting over again. Although a few fixes and a mod that makes custom companions free or cheaper would already make it more bearable.

Someone else said this on another forum, but it feels like half of the development team wanted to make a game that was challenging to min/maxers, while the other half wanted to make a game with interesting, imperfect characters. I like the interesting and flawed characters, but I also don't like using easy settings. So I'm trying to use multi-classed wizards and tower shield specialists at L3 against pouncing monsters with +16 BABs.

[Firechanter]

Argh, wrote a post and then forgot to hit Send before closing the browser... well, stupidity must be punished I presume.

So what I was going to say: pretty much every game, and especially every computer game, as a dominant strategy. For this game here, it turns out to be "Archers, Pets and Summons". (Note how well your starting companions can supply any of these elements... not.) One of my buddies who plays on Challenging has reshuffled his party to contain 6 Archers, 2 Pets and various Summons. While this probably wouldn't fly for long in a tabletop game, since the GM would just break out enemies that can counter this strategy, the game AI simply doesn't have a counter-strategy to this other than "bigger numbers". And ironically, it's "bigger numbers" that encourages the player to use this strategy in the first place.

To paraphrase him: the insane bit is that when a heavy hitter rolls a crit, if he hits a Summon, the Summon shrugs and disappears. If he hits a character, the character is dead.
Lesson learned: never let a character get into melee.

--

Going back to the XP question. Yes, now I have confirmed that XP is way too low even with XP sharing disabled. For instance, I just killed the Man-Eating Troll with a party levels 2 to 3. Total XP awarded: 648 or something. Split six ways. So just over 100XP per character, in what was a _really_ nasty fight that I had to micromanage action by action and ended with 1 or 2 characters down. In PF, even a regular troll is worth 1600XP, and that one doesn't have +15 To Hit and AC20. By my reckoning, the Man Eater should be worth at least 3200XP. Split six-ways, that's over 500 per.
I don't mind cannonfodder like Mites not giving full XP but with special monsters like that, I feel seriously shortchanged.

[Eldonauran]

To paraphrase him: the insane bit is that when a heavy hitter rolls a crit, if he hits a Summon, the Summon shrugs and disappears. If he hits a character, the character is dead.
Lesson learned: never let a character get into melee.

Personally, I've always thought this was a good idea. Why go into melee range, when you have other options available? Melee should be a last resort but you need to prepare for that occurrence, because it will happen. I think this is especially important in cRPGs, like Kingmaker.

Going back to the XP question. Yes, now I have confirmed that XP is way too low even with XP sharing disabled. For instance, I just killed the Man-Eating Troll with a party levels 2 to 3. Total XP awarded: 648 or something. Split six ways. So just over 100XP per character, in what was a _really_ nasty fight that I had to micromanage action by action and ended with 1 or 2 characters down. In PF, even a regular troll is worth 1600XP, and that one doesn't have +15 To Hit and AC20. By my reckoning, the Man Eater should be worth at least 3200XP. Split six-ways, that's over 500 per.
I don't mind cannonfodder like Mites not giving full XP but with special monsters like that, I feel seriously shortchanged.

That is just the nature of cRPGs. You are going to be fighting a LOT more enemies, in quicker succession, than you would on the table top due to the speed at which all the math and die rolling occurs. I felt shortchanged as well, considering I created an additional 5 characters and the experience is being shared with ALL of characters. I turned off sharing exp until my main group hit level 5 (ie, the 'cruise' point of my build where everything starts operating at peak efficiency) and then allowed everyone else to get exp. It still saddens me briefly when I kill something a everyone gets 9 experience, but it will add up eventually. Main group is level 5 (main character is about 2,700 exp higher than the rest) and the other non-used characters are around level 3.

[Spore]

That is just the nature of cRPGs. You are going to be fighting a LOT more enemies, in quicker succession, than you would on the table top due to the speed at which all the math and die rolling occurs. I felt shortchanged as well, considering I created an additional 5 characters and the experience is being shared with ALL of characters. I turned off sharing exp until my main group hit level 5 (ie, the 'cruise' point of my build where everything starts operating at peak efficiency) and then allowed everyone else to get exp. It still saddens me briefly when I kill something a everyone gets 9 experience, but it will add up eventually. Main group is level 5 (main character is about 2,700 exp higher than the rest) and the other non-used characters are around level 3.

Back when I switched from Diablo 2 to Baldurs Gate 1, I farmed second level by beating up kobolds and shriekers before I finally understood that quests gave the majority of XP. I won't tell you it was hard because I thought high AC was good in that game and subsequentially run with an all-leather armor group.

These buggers awarded 15 XP each (split 6 ways so 2 per person so the engine even took pity on me and gave me a 20% XP boost). I can still hear their sound files at night when particularly frisky or territorial cats fight and love in front of my window.

But yes, how is quest density? Because as I see it, Chapter one is just bread crumb quests imho to go somewhere and don't require major input in order to resolve themselves. "Tartuccio is investigating some powerful ancient ruin, follow him." followed by "you found Tartuccio, now fight his mercenaries." and the lot. Retrieving the innkeeper's ring is just a fetch quest that forces more camp mechanics on you. but oh well, I still dont dare to venture into the game in fear of overlooking something crucial and neckbreaking during the kingdom chapters.

[Firechanter]

Personally, I've always thought this was a good idea. Why go into melee range, when you have other options available? Melee should be a last resort but you need to prepare for that occurrence, because it will happen.

Who says that Melee should be a last resort? Who gets to decide how people are allowed to have fun? This is a fantasy game, not a COSIM. A lot of players, myself included, enjoy playing honest-to-goodness Melee characters. Or at least, would enjoy, if the system didn't give them the short end of the stick. Compare the old 3E gripe, "Melee can't have Nice Things". People wouldn't complain about that if they really didn't _want_ to play Melee. So for this faction, a system that discourages you to play what you really would enjoy, and makes you take a more effective, different approach, probably with lots of magic involved, is not satisfactory.

Okay, sure -- in PFKM you can always weaken or turn off Crits. I might yet decide to do that in order to keep my Melee Main playable, but it does change the game balance quite significantly, so I don't want to be hasty.
Let's just keep in mind there's a reason why the Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier is such a popular item in groups that did not adopt the nerf that made the item utterly useless.

As for the "nature of CRPGs": considering how often you sometimes have to reload, I'm not so sure that you actually get a higher kill-per-hour rate in this game. :6

[Eldonauran]

Who says that Melee should be a last resort? Who gets to decide how people are allowed to have fun? This is a fantasy game, not a COSIM. A lot of players, myself included, enjoy playing honest-to-goodness Melee characters. Or at least, would enjoy, if the system didn't give them the short end of the stick. Compare the old 3E gripe, "Melee can't have Nice Things". People wouldn't complain about that if they really didn't _want_ to play Melee. So for this faction, a system that discourages you to play what you really would enjoy, and makes you take a more effective, different approach, probably with lots of magic involved, is not satisfactory.

I wasn't claiming an universal truth, merely my own preference in approaching situations that the game present to you. I tend to orient towards the effective solutions when it comes to battle and tactics. People can play however they want. Games, especially computer games, can NOT appeal to every type of play style or preference equally. If people go in expecting a game to cater towards their playstyle (and I am NOT saying you are), they can, and will, develop some negative feelings when it doesn't match their expectation. I can only suggest that they adapt to the game and learn to enjoy that process.

Okay, sure -- in PFKM you can always weaken or turn off Crits. I might yet decide to do that in order to keep my Melee Main playable, but it does change the game balance quite significantly, so I don't want to be hasty.
Let's just keep in mind there's a reason why the Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier is such a popular item in groups that did not adopt the nerf that made the item utterly useless.

Yes, the difficulty slider is there for a reason and should be used to customize you game experience. I certainly won't frown or look down at someone who plays the game on story mode. Hell, I will eventually play the game on story mode (or turn it down that far if necessary to keep from getting stuck). Don't forget that you can still play at the Hard, or challenging mode, and simply turn down one or two settings to help the issue. It will say 'custom' at that point, but you can always set the base difficulty first.

As for the "nature of CRPGs": considering how often you sometimes have to reload, I'm not so sure that you actually get a higher kill-per-hour rate in this game. :6

I actually reload a lot, especially when it comes to picking locks. I HATE that a character only gets one shot per level at a lock. That is me forcing a 'take a 20' on the attempt.

[Firechanter]

Yeah, they really should have just made that a game setting: "Retry Trickery checks" or something. That way both the "let the dice fall where they may" and "I want to Take 20" factions could both be happy. Just like you can also set the game to ignore carrying capacity during overland travel.

Which is btw what I have done today. It's ridiculous that rations weigh what, 5, 10 lbs a pop? Yeah I know, it also says "camping supplies", but whoever set those values has apparently never been camping. You don't use up 10lbs of single-use items per person per night. Outfitting a party of 6 for a week-long trip, over 400 lbs? Ridiculous. Laughable. Absurd. Grotesque.

Besides, why can't we just loan a mule? Or horses? In our tabletop game, we simply explore on horseback, and leave the beasts behind when we go into tactical movement. Granted, the scale of the Stolen Lands map seems to be much smaller in PFKM -- my party just travelled from Tuskutters Lair to Oleg's in one day. On the tabletop map, that would be something like 40 miles as the crow flies - and probably 60 miles actually navigating the wilderness. Not bad a day trip for a CON 8 Wizard, eh? xD

Still, it just sucks to run out of rations.
Also, it occured to me just today that I've been a fool not to simply create caches at various locations. Thorn Ford is a good place. Sycamore another. Just drop 12-18 rations each there and you can quickly rest and resupply from there.

BTW, I suppose I can be proud of Amiri. She actually did solo Tuskgutter (level 3). ^^ My casters buffed her up beforehand, but after that I left it entirely up to her.
Almost a shame that she's next on the replacement list. xD

[Eldonauran]

Yeah, rations do seem to weigh a lot, but I think it is more like 2 to 3 meals in one ration. Resting can take anywhere from 8 hours (if no camouflage, cooking, or hunting is needed/allowed) to longer, like 16 hours or more. Really depends on how well your Nature checks works out. I havent experienced running out of rations, having only had to use three (yes, 3) so far, as hunting usually provides the rations we need. We've got a really good Nature check.

I never thought about leaving things at different area locations. Past game experiences leave me wary of leaving things behind that could be lost if the area updated. If that's not a concern, I might be more inclined to do that.

Nice job with Tuskgutter! I had to take Amiri (leaving behind my switch hitter rogue/monk/paladin) to fight him, and he landed a seriously large crit on Amiri, leaving her at 25% hp on the first round. Needless to say, she got buffed on the 2nd try.

[Drasius]

While I have only just picked this up recently, I get the feeling that not only do quite a few people here not remember the first few levels of BG1 and getting stomped on by wolves RNG on the way to the FAI, the absolute cluster that was fighting Tarnesh if you didn't somehow interupt his Mirror Image or the other low level horror caster in the Nashkel inn just before the mines.

Low level DnD is a crapshoot for most characters and there's nothing different here.

I'm also suspecting that there's a bit of a clash in expectations of what the game is - it (to me) feels like it's a BG styled party-themed story-driven thing rather than a hacky/slashy min/max'ers delight like IWD.

I will admit that I'm not so sure about having the "good" side end up with Lintzi and random potions as their only source of healing early if you didn't pick a divine caster as PC, but I guess it's a good a way as any to try and keep her in the party (for those who aren't just going to hire a created character).

There's a couple of small niggles so far (lack of directions on the map, weird map controls, no merchants in places where you'd expect them, UI isn't as thought out as it could be etc), overall, it feels a lot like what I was expecting.

Starting out with a Mage PC is just as horrible as I remember, but I knew/suspected that going in, so I'm not surprised nor going to hold it against the game because that's just how it is and despite not being familiar with the differences between pathfinder and "normal" DnD, I've played enough low level mages to not have it be a major issue (yet).

Maybe after I've played a bit more, things will become an issue, but that'll be a while due to work being busy over the next month or so, and it might even be patched out by then, but I must say that I haven't had the issues that others have had to the same degree (though I am playing on "normal" difficulty).

[GloatingSwine]

While I have only just picked this up recently, I get the feeling that not only do quite a few people here not remember the first few levels of BG1 and getting stomped on by wolves RNG on the way to the FAI, the absolute cluster that was fighting Tarnesh if you didn't somehow interupt his Mirror Image or the other low level horror caster in the Nashkel inn just before the mines.

Feed him Xzar and Montaron. Nobody misses them.

Though one thing that might be causing the difficulty issue is that the lowest difficulty is core rules pathfinder, and on any increased difficulty gives the enemies +2 to both ability bonuses and derived stats which stack. (So the enemy get +2 Dex bonus and +2 AC for a total +4 AC per difficulty, and the same to hit and damage and saves and so on) .

[Narkis]

While I have only just picked this up recently, I get the feeling that not only do quite a few people here not remember the first few levels of BG1 and getting stomped on by wolves RNG on the way to the FAI, the absolute cluster that was fighting Tarnesh if you didn't somehow interupt his Mirror Image or the other low level horror caster in the Nashkel inn just before the mines.

Low level DnD is a crapshoot for most characters and there's nothing different here.

I'm also suspecting that there's a bit of a clash in expectations of what the game is - it (to me) feels like it's a BG styled party-themed story-driven thing rather than a hacky/slashy min/max'ers delight like IWD.

I will admit that I'm not so sure about having the "good" side end up with Lintzi and random potions as their only source of healing early if you didn't pick a divine caster as PC, but I guess it's a good a way as any to try and keep her in the party (for those who aren't just going to hire a created character).

There's a couple of small niggles so far (lack of directions on the map, weird map controls, no merchants in places where you'd expect them, UI isn't as thought out as it could be etc), overall, it feels a lot like what I was expecting.

Starting out with a Mage PC is just as horrible as I remember, but I knew/suspected that going in, so I'm not surprised nor going to hold it against the game because that's just how it is and despite not being familiar with the differences between pathfinder and "normal" DnD, I've played enough low level mages to not have it be a major issue (yet).

Maybe after I've played a bit more, things will become an issue, but that'll be a while due to work being busy over the next month or so, and it might even be patched out by then, but I must say that I haven't had the issues that others have had to the same degree (though I am playing on "normal" difficulty).

Yeah, this game really reminds me of playing Baldur's Gate 1 for the first time all those years ago. I'm still in chapter 1, but so far Kingmaker seems like a far worthier successor than Pillars.

[Firechanter]

Low level DnD is a crapshoot for most characters and there's nothing different here.

Yup. I hate the lowest levels in any D&D. It's just so swingy and entirely luck-based. Generally I prefer starting at level 3 to 5, depending on the campaign.

I'm also suspecting that there's a bit of a clash in expectations of what the game is - it (to me) feels like it's a BG styled party-themed story-driven thing rather than a hacky/slashy min/max'ers delight like IWD.

Well, as someone up there said, it seems that the dev team was in two minds about the focus itself, respectively one half wanted to make it a story game and the other a hard nut to crack, and that's how we ended up with an oversized-weapon wielding weak Barbarian and a Tower Shield Specialist vs +15 / AC35 murderfaces.

I will admit that I'm not so sure about having the "good" side end up with Lintzi and random potions as their only source of healing early if you didn't pick a divine caster as PC, but I guess it's a good a way as any to try and keep her in the party (for those who aren't just going to hire a created character).

Yeah, actually that was the main reason for me to redo my moral choices with my Paladin and take the Chaotic option so that I at least get a Cleric.

Starting out with a Mage PC is just as horrible as I remember, but I knew/suspected that going in, so I'm not surprised nor going to hold it against the game because that's just how it is and despite not being familiar with the differences between pathfinder and "normal" DnD, I've played enough low level mages to not have it be a major issue (yet).

Just ftr, in Neverwinter Nights 1+2 standard campaigns, with their extremely lax resting mechanics (full recharge in 6 seconds), starting out with a Wizard was really easy. ;)

Though one thing that might be causing the difficulty issue is that the lowest difficulty is core rules pathfinder, and on any increased difficulty gives the enemies +2 to both ability bonuses and derived stats which stack. (So the enemy get +2 Dex bonus and +2 AC for a total +4 AC per difficulty, and the same to hit and damage and saves and so on) .

Ah, is that the formula? I only ever check the enemy stats on the tougher solos, and as long as these end up around AC20, I'm not overly concerned. (I play Custom, based on Challenging but with "Normal Enemies")
Of course I do notice that e.g. the Bandits are considerably tougher here than in the AP. The AP Bandits were a sad joke however; Level 1 Warriors with iirc PB15 unoptimized Stats. Also most other AP encounters are nursery-level easy. Like, four kobolds guarding the Radish patch is too difficult, they are _sickened_ kobolds. Tuskgutter is an "advanced boar" with a raving 22 HP. And so on.
However, we need to remember that the Kingmaker AP is from the early era of Pathfinder, when Paizo still advocated PB15 player characters. So maybe it was balanced then, at a much lower level than we expect today.

--

Update:
for the time being, I swapped out Amiri for Valerie, actually, because I wanted an "anchor" on the battlefield. So I skilled her fully for AC with Focus feats. Since she's too bloody stupid to qualify for Combat Expertise. Because that would actually have been useful. -.- Anyway, so now on Level 3 and with a Heavy shield instead of a frickin door, she sports an AC24 (I bought her Oleg's Half-Plate). She doesn't need to hit because I have my own characters for that. Technically I could even let her have her precious Tower Shield if that friggin thing didn't weigh a ton. The sad thing is that Valerie's weaknesses result in Linzi getting encumbered and slowed down to 15'. And then Valerie does what Fighters do when an enemy caster spams Scare: she runs. And suddenly Linzi is the front line.
*golf clap*

Anyway, she'll never shine, but she only needs to hold out until level 5. Then I'll replace her with a zookeeper and outsource the tanking business to Summons and a pet.

On the plus side, I'm actually mildly impressed with Tristian. Only just discovered that he can hand out single-target single-round +2-buffs unlimited times. So that makes a lot more sense than shooting a crossbow at +3 for 1d8 damage. xD I just haven't figured out yet what I'm supposed to do about his AC. Any suggestions?

[RazorChain]

Started a new game with only mercs. Used money cheat so I could hire them for that ridiculous price.

Main char

Draco

Angel kin Scaled Fist Monk.
Needed the stat boost because he's stat depenent

Role: Back line trashing mage slayer.

Will take 2 levels of Paladin to give him godly saves. Run behind enemy frontline to take out the trash.

Vivianne

Asimaar Vivisectionist Alchemist

Role: flanking damage dealer

Have her two weapon fighting with a buckler. Damage is going to be dependent on her sneak attacks anyway. This way she'll be tanky as well with her buffs

Storm

Human sorceress blue dragon liniage.

Role: blaster

Simple, just blast away.


Ragnar Ironhammer

Dwarven Cleric Crusader of Torag
Artificer and Protection Domains

Role: Tank, support and healing

HAMMERTIME!

Roland

Human fighter

Role: Tank

Mostly he' stand there occupying the enemy melee with his sword and board so the others can sneak attack.

The I have Octavia as an Arcane trickster for those sweet ranged touch sneak attacks and other wizardry stuff.

So far I have been breezing through the 1st chaptet

[tonberrian]

How easy is it to mod this game? Is it possible to mod the premades into non-idiocy?

This might be a purchase-defining answer for me.

[Drasius]

Just ftr, in Neverwinter Nights 1+2 standard campaigns, with their extremely lax resting mechanics (full recharge in 6 seconds), starting out with a Wizard was really easy. ;)

Depends on how much you cheesed the resting mechanics I guess. I never felt the need to and encounters were still fairly easy with only tactical usage of spells. The 5 minute workday was already dumb, I have no idea why they thought that doubling down on that garbage would be a good idea. Each to their own though, I guess it let powergamers have their shenanigans while allowing for the RP'ers to do their thing too, so maybe it was the right call?

[RazorChain]

How easy is it to mod this game? Is it possible to mod the premades into non-idiocy?

This might be a purchase-defining answer for me.

There is a character editor but atm you can only edit stats

[Renegade Paladin]

So... my barony up and collapsed with no explanation a couple of weeks after I defeated the trolls. There were no failed events, and no vital kingdom stats anywhere near zero; the final report tells me nothing and I can't figure it out. I did take longer defeating the trolls than I probably should have, getting bogged down in sidequests, but I did put the kibosh on them and have no idea what's destroying the state. It's weird.

This happened while skipping a couple of weeks in the kingdom management interface to try to get to the end of some events. I've reloaded a save and am going adventuring to try and finish some quests to see if that helps. Also, most of my party has a boatload of negative levels and I can't find more than one thing of diamond dust; restoration requires two per casting. Anyone know where I can find any?

[Seerow]

So lots of people talking about the core gameplay and difficulty/character customization... but how is the Kingdom Management minigame? Renegade Paladin's post is the first I think I've even seen it mentioned. Does that mean the Kingdom is kind of a background mechanic you don't do much with, or is it just a case where most people are still in the early stages of the game before you get to found your kingdom?

[Sloanzilla]

It's grown on me- I'm having fun and enjoying the challenges. But there are a lot of "WTF are they thinking?" moments. If I ever went to a gaming table with some of the stuff thrown at my party of level 3's- I'd have left. Can I design a super party that can beat it? Sure, but still- wtf

[Stuebi]

Respectfully, comparing this to BG1 is an insult to the latter. Baldurs Gate hat completely useable Characters with which the game could absolutely be completed. And yes, in BG1 there were Encounters that could be nightmarish... but you had the freedom to just go somewhere else, get some more Levels and Gear, and then come back for a fair fight.

Kingmaker lacks that, not only because there is a time limit imposed on you. And because Fights are hard for the wrong reasons. Firechanter touched on it, but there are some party comps that break the games curve over it's knee with a dry crack. A friend of mine is playing a mostly ranged party very focused on just getting higher hitchances (Because even small bonuses like 5-10% extra to hit are a MASSIVE deal in a system like this), and he's been steamrolling the game on Hard. And I can't do nearly as well with a balanced party, and forget about it using the pre-created characters.

Now, the game is actually enjoyable either: if you just play it on easy with the default charas. Yes, it lacks challenge. But generally, I enjoy the writing and plot enough that I don't mind. And the system/balance doesn't provide a satisfying curve anyway.

Or you just cheat yourself enough Gold for a self-created party at Olegs and make companions that are actually, you know, competent. I was able to leave the game on normal and make decent progress. The difficulty still snaps back and forth like a Tuna, but it feels like I have a fair shot even at the harder encounters.

Just to highlight this again: DO backup your saves, and just make a habit of doing save rotation. The game keeps eating random saves. Not often enough to drive me insane, but still so frequently that it will eat hours of your progress if you don't rotate properly.

[Firechanter]

How easy is it to mod this game? Is it possible to mod the premades into non-idiocy?

This might be a purchase-defining answer for me.

There is a character editor but atm you can only edit stats

That might actually be worth trying. Editing stats can already go a long way - shift some of Valerie's CON or CHA into INT so that she can take Combat Expertise, and maybe up the Str a bit so she can carry her own weight. Move some of Octavia's CHA to CON so she doesn't fall over from a mosquito sting. Give Harrim more DEX so he can function in the front line. Redo Amiri's stats entirely. xD

You might also try to edit the savegame to reset companions' level to 1 and do the levelups yourself (say, for Octavia), but I have no idea if that would crash the game.

You'll still be stuck with their abysmal 1st level choices, like Harrim's Domains or Val's Archetype and burning a feat for EWP, or Octavia being a Half-Elf in the first place, and so on and so forth... but they wouldn't be quite that terrible gimps and you might actually play the campaign with them.

It would also be nice if the game allowed us to write some text for Mercs. I mean, if they are included in the loading screen rotation, there should also be a way to tell something about them, rather than just showing their portrait, their name and a blank slate.

[Tome]

Also, most of my party has a boatload of negative levels and I can't find more than one thing of diamond dust; restoration requires two per casting. Anyone know where I can find any?

Jhod, the cleric guy, should sell scrolls of it. They don't need the diamond dust, and he'll cast them himself if you have no party members who can.

[Firechanter]

And Jhod also sells diamond dust, for that matter.

[Jackaccount]

Does anyone know if there are any prestige classes that grant attribute/skill bonuses other than dragon disciple? I'm planning on making an archaeologist dragon disciple skill monkey.

[Firechanter]

Today, I got my current party up to level 4. It's really noticeable how the gameplay improves when you can't get oneshotted out of clear air at any moment, and your characters slowly develop a level of competence where not everything is just blind luck anymore.
Story-wise, I think it's a bit of a shame that Lawful Good characters of all people cannot take a peaceful approach at the Old Sycamore. :( You have to declare hostilities to either Mites or Kobolds or both. Conversely, as an Evil character you can cross and double-cross so many NPCs you probably get 3x as much loot out of the quests than a Goodie would.

After clearing out the Old Sycamore (I left around 300lbs of loot behind for later pickup), I explored some more and got to another wilderness site, where I met a Greater Weretiger. Sounds quite formidable, but it's remarkable how swiftly my Paladin made him roll over like a kitten. Took 2 or 3 rounds, I suppose.

concerning Companions:
I gave Valerie a Monk level. Even though she can't use most of the class features, you do gain a prereq-free bonus feat, some saves and better skills, so you lose absolutely nothing from her stepping away from Fighter. I picked Crane Style to boost her defense. Now with the +1 Half Plate you find, Armour Training, various AC feats and Crane Style, her effective AC should be around 29 with the Heavy Shield. I guess that's gonna be good enough for now.

At long last, Octavia also got to 4th and finally gets her level 2 spells. Now there are actually some tough choices. Web is pretty much a given, but what to take as 2nd pick? Several good candidates:
- Acid Arrow -- to lock down enemy casters more reliably.
- Blur -- statistically, every fifth attack on your frontliner should be negated. And they should be immune to sneak attack due to concealment, if the rule has been implemented correctly.
- that Fire Blob spell -- a small AoE, no To Hit Roll and still some Ongoing damage, might be even better depending than Acid Arrow on the range.
- Invisibility -- some sneaky scouting and looting before the actual fight? Might be useful!
- Mirror Image -- normally a must-have, but here the AI is too dumb to geek the mage first, so it may be unnecessary.
- that Stone spell -- can also help slow down your enemies, while you can prep your frontliners with Feather Step so they won't mind, as opposed to Web.

Yeah, so. Six candidates for just one pick. What to take? It would really help to know which spells you can find or buy as scrolls before long.

--

Possible bug: could be that Aasimar resistances don't work properly. If I didn't misread, my Paladin got spat at by a centipede and took Acid damage - which should be impossible seeing how it was just 1d4 of damage and Aasis are supposed to have Acid Res 5.