Best fictional religions for RP?

[The Jack]

Where to begin?

Firstly, clergy operate differently to normal worshipers. Just because the populace is polytheistic doesn't mean every member of the clergy is going to cover every god.

And, if every god is real, but they all have different influence on different people, why wouldn't they fight? Why wouldn't they tell their people that they're the best and that X,Y and Z gods are terrible demons/evil. You forget, Demons et al are true too in DnD, so it should be laughably easy to discredit rivals and weaken their powerbase. What gods get their strength from, be it worship, an aspect of existence, or maybe they were just always there, is something that changes from fiction to fiction, but if you kill all the orcs, the god of orcs is going to suffer.

Oriental adventures is bull, The default classes in 5e cover everything* you might want to be in an oriental game and creating a super-exclusive Samurai class for Samurai, rather than just picking a fighter with the noble background, is a decision of ignorance (and you're having bad-wrong-fun, clearly). A warrior monk in faux Japan/Thailand/India would seek the best armour available to them, as would any other warrior, regardless of the gods they believe in.

Also, sweet christmas man, did you read what you wrote? Vikings and Greeks were around before steel plate armour was a thing (Bronze armour came in plates but...) However, if they did have warrior clergy, then those warrior clergy would've gone for the best armour available to them... and if they were around during the time of later armour, they would've wanted the best. It's context; If viking raiders were around today, they'd be using firearms.

*where it fails for oriental games, it fails for European games too.

As for your 'stories came before gods' argument
Would that necessarily be true in a world where the gods are quantifiably real? I didn't think so. However, as others have said: the books are for a player/game master, it's better to not bother with that so that the players/Game masters can make up their own stories for their gods.

[SimonMoon6]

An unfortunate truth about game settings is that most people don't care about most of the content of the setting. It is a game first and foremost. Players want to know the minimum amount of information possible to play the game and not how the world is theorized to work according to some religious philosophers.

Well, of course, there is a difference between what a player needs to know and what the DM/GM needs to know. Just as in a Call of Cthulhu game, you don't start off telling the PCs what the deal is with the Cthulhu Mythos, it is possible to avoid telling PCs in a D&D game every detail about the gods, while still having those details available to the DM. The players don't need to know everything about the setting, but the DM does (more or less). The DM needs to know that the sun is not a big hot ball of gas that is 93 million miles away but rather is just what we see when Apollo rides his chariot across the sky. (After all, the distance to the sun is important for those Spot checks to be able to notice it.) The DM needs to know that Tiamat is dead. The DM needs to know that the reason for the seasons is NOT that the planet is tilted on its axis but rather it's that whole Demeter/Persephone/Hades thing. The setting needs to be detailed in this way.

Therefore, for a game setting, it is best to figure out what you want your religions to do first and fill in some details later.

I think world-building issues need to be dealt with at the beginning (or pre-beginning) of the game, so that you don't accidentally contradict yourself later. If people in a D&D game try to teleport to the Sun and you say, "Good luck with that 93 million mile journey," you have then created a world in which it is impossible for Apollo to be the sun god who rides his chariot across the sky. So, now what the heck is the point of Apollo? Oops, you've just ruined one entire god.

[SimonMoon6]

{Scrubbed}

[PhoenixPhyre]

{Scrubbed}.

No. That's not the point of a god. You're importing a very a-historical, modern, western idea from the real world into fiction. Fictional worlds do not have to work like you believe myth did in the real world.

In my setting, there have been at least 3 different types of "true gods" and there are multiple god-like entities that don't meet the current definition of "god." None of whom embody the concept of their domain.

First, there were the Primordials. Why did they exist? Because the Dreamer, the one who created everything, dreamed them up. This was well before matter was created, so these were loose concepts. 9 were created.

* Fire (Energies)
* Earth (Solid matter)
* Air (Gasses)
* Water (Liquids)
* Light (Law, Progress)
* Darkness (Memory, Stability)
* Life (Organization, Creation)
* Death (Destruction, Decay)
* Concordance (Compromise, Change, Loss)

After the Dawn War, when Concordance rebelled against the Dreamer and the Eight (and lost and was thrust down to the Abyss), the Primordials were refashioned into the planar structure of today and the Great Mechanism was created to regulate the affairs of the universe. For millennia there were no "gods" and no need for them. Faith had no power.

2700 years ago, the Third Wish opened up the channel of faith between man and the planes. This entailed the promotion of powerful beings to the rank of "God". Hundreds of them--whatever was believed in strongly became a source of power to which a "god" could adhere. That left many beings vying for fragments of belief--dozens all claiming to be the "one true god" or the "god of the sun"; each constrained in power by the attention paid by mortals. For the one key restriction of that Third Wish was that the gods cannot act except according to the faith of mortals.

This chaotic state of affairs, with racial and local pantheons, with holy wars and syncretism, lasted for about 2500 years until the Cataclysm. This event, triggered in part by the release of Concordance from the Abyss and in part by mortals tampering with an artifact of the Dreamer set off ripples that threatened reality itself. As an act of desperation the gods, compelled by the prayers and faith of their worshipers, enacted the Sacrifice, giving their own existence to stabilize the planes. Only four stayed behind--they merged with the Great Mechanism, sacrificing their own wills and identity.

50 years after the Cataclysm (or so), reality had settled down enough for new gods to be called. This time, however, things were different. The Great Mechanism dedicated 16 streams of energy so that these new gods, the Congregation, would be independent of the faith of mortals. In exchange, the 16 chosen souls (all previously mortals) were handed a portion of the faith-loci, roughly organized into domains. Their jobs, enforced by the Mechanism, are to watch over and deal with disturbances in those domains. This means answering prayers, ordaining clerics and servants, sending messengers, etc. Note that the domains are mortal-centric--the domain of the Sun is really the domain of what the Sun symbolizes for mortals. Heat for the crops, light to work by, freedom from fear, strength, honor. Not the physical sun (which is a lamp lit by the Great Mechanism at the center of the Material Plane), but the symbolic sun. Same with all the other Congregants.

There are three other types of ascended beings that might be called "gods":

* Demigods are raised up by the Congregants to serve them and aid in their tasks. In many areas, these are worshiped instead of the more remote Congregants.
* Ascended Heroes are mortals who, through strength of will and veneration from the mortal plane, have carved out astral domains for themselves. They cannot sponsor clerics, but they do empower warlocks. These range in power all across the spectrum. They're much more free to act than the Congregants are and do not have domains as such. Instead, they're most powerful when dealing with concentrations of their worshipers.
* Contractors made deals with fiends for immortality. In the process, they are stripped of much of their mortal identity. They retain power and capabilities that the fiends don't possess natively (being able to live un-summoned on the mortal plane among those) but they're not really "gods".

Note that different cultures orient themselves to the Congregation and the heroes differently. Some act like it's a Roman-style client/patron system. They venerate all the gods, but devote themselves to the teachings and mystery cult of one of them. Others are "monotheistic"--not denying the existence of the others but denying the need to worship the others. This is most common with the more powerful ascended heroes. Yet others ignore the Congregation entirely, believing them to be mostly pointless. They turn to the veneration and appeasement of the local kami, spirits of nature and the elements. Many other patterns exist as well.

[The Jack]

YES, you can create a world where the gods are boring. That seems to be your response to everything I write. "Why can't I first create a setting where the gods are boring and have no purpose? Then I don't need them to have a purpose or stories written about them explaining their purpose." YES, you can do that. But that's terrible. The religion has no purpose.

{Scrubbed}

well, you can go the Ten thousand gods route, the spirit route, or whatever you want to call it.
There's a Sun, therefore there is a sun god.
Perhaps there's a god for every star, perhaps there's a god for all stars, perhaps there's both.
Someone invents computers. There's a computer spirit. Someone reproduces computers and improves on them, they strengthen a the spirit.
Someone kills the last goblin, there's no longer a goblin god. A man beats his wife, and there's a wifebeater god...


Also, about clerics.
If only a minority of people can manifest clerical magic
Then they're going to absolutely dominate the social order, and whatever religion they share with the masses is going to be significant. Real life clergy were significant figures in society and were hugely influential; imagine how much that would be amplified if so many people could claim and prove direct divine favour and communication? The human factor is huge.

And, well, there's gnostic thought to throw in there.
Maybe It wouldn't be in the interest of gods to let people know the true metaphysics of godhood, just like how nobody in the food industry wants people to know the truth about diets (fat is good for you! Sugar is evil! Salt is great!) What if everyone could become a god or the god? It would be in the best interests of the current gods to keep the mortals mortal, lest they shake things up.

[Anonymouswizard]

Oriental adventures is bull, The default classes in 5e cover everything* you might want to be in an oriental game and creating a super-exclusive Samurai class for Samurai, rather than just picking a fighter with the noble background, is a decision of ignorance (and you're having bad-wrong-fun, clearly). A warrior monk in faux Japan/Thailand/India would seek the best armour available to them, as would any other warrior, regardless of the gods they believe in.

The four human classes in BD&D covered everything, and I'm a bit torn on the cleric as a seperate class. We can add in extra layers, like backgrounds, focuses, subclasses, heroic paths, and other things to represent more diverse concepts. A Paladin is just a Fighter with the Priest background, a bard a Rogue with the Performance focus.

[Max_Killjoy]

{Scrubbed}

{Scrubbed}

In a fictional world, maybe the god really is the sun. Or maybe the god embodies the son. Or the god is in charge of the sun. Or maybe the god is the manifestation of collective mortal reverence for and anxiety about the sun. Or whatever.

[Florian]

{Scrubbed}.

Not necessarily true.

I guess you're going at this from a very western and modern POV, but serious mystical world-building doesn't work that way, especially when it comes to "science" (as we know it). The rules there are more based around "as above, so below".

Again, take Golarion as an example. The "First World" and the Fey were the trial field for the gods at creating a prime material plane (aka reality). Here, they tried out different things, like causalites, flows of time, physical states, creating life and mater with different combinations of connection to the "Planes of Power" and such. After their trials, they discussed the various options and settled on how to really go for it on the next try. Like an unhappy artist, they used the same canvas and painted the next version of "reality" over the "First World", without deleting or scrapping it. (Basically, the First World is metaphysically too close to the Positive Energy Plane, while the Shadow Plane is too close to the Negative Energy Plane. Both therefore have very different "laws of nature" when compared to the Prime Material Plane, which sits in the middle of both energy planes)

It´s simply the underlying fact that the goddess of Life and Death is exactly that, the reason why life can exist and will die.

The star Cynosure is the physical manifest entry to the realm Cynosure, home of Desna. If you were to teleport there or use a spaceship, you could actually try to gain entry.

Basically, you could do the same with the sun: Any sun in the prima material plane is an entry point to the home of Apollo and very suns radiation stems from Apollo.

[Frozen_Feet]

{Scrubbed}

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Please avoid real world religion in this thread.

[oudeis]

Does this include historical religions, i.e., those with no current practitioners? Could we draw a date line at around 1,000 years ago?

[Max_Killjoy]

Does this include historical religions, i.e., those with no current practitioners? Could we draw a date line at around 1,000 years ago?

We probably just need another venue to discuss this topic as related to gaming, which is a shame.

[Anonymouswizard]

Does this include historical religions, i.e., those with no current practitioners? Could we draw a date line at around 1,000 years ago?

The rules are a bit weird. I've just gone through the rules post to check, and we're supposed to read with the widest possible breadth, so by my reading that means that even if the last practitioner died out 4368 years ago then it's not allowed. If a mod could clarify this I would be grateful.


So let's see, what makes an interesting religion for RP. I think we've effectively split ourselves into two camps:
-The Gods camp, where the deities and their myths are the most important bit.
-the Cults camp, where practices, place in society, and scriptures are the most important bit.

Note that here I'm using myths to mean beliefs about the deity and scriptures to mean beliefs about the world.

Now ideally every religion will have all of this, but I'd much rather know how my character fits into society.

[The Jack]

So let's see, what makes an interesting religion for RP. I think we've effectively split ourselves into two camps:
-The Gods camp, where the deities and their myths are the most important bit.
-the Cults camp, where practices, place in society, and scriptures are the most important bit.

I don't think so. A competent GM should be able to run both, and a good player should ideally consider both. I'd be delighted for my players to be reciting scriptures, parables and stories they made up for their character's, to take an active stance in working out what their faith means to them.

I played a hobgoblin knight, a fighter, who was a strong believer in Nomog, the ways of Nomog, and a secret heretic against Maggy (let's not try to spell his name); who he thought was unrightfully at the head of the goblinoid pantheon. But I took magic initiate, and I had invented scriptures of Nomog to recite for casting my spells, got religious tattoos, and I lived life around the concept of what I thought aught to be hobgobliny, inventing inspiring short stories of Nomog's greatness to encourage others to live the way I/Nomog would.

It was a lot of fun, and i don't think I started the character thinking I'd be so religious, I just got into it. I spent time discussing the merits of going paladin or cleric with the GM, but I was happy to be a fighter, because I think religion shouldn't be the exclusive domain of people who get spells from gods (alright, I took cleric magic initiate at level four, of course I took thaumaturgy and used it to look more like the chosen one of my god, but I was really into it by then)

[Nifft]

Thinking a bit more about this topic, my favorite religious system might have been the one in Exalted.

- Gods were real, but most of them weren't particularly worthy of worship.

- Ancestor spirits were real, and they could at as gods. Some were pretty decent.

- Elementals were real, and they did represent nature, but nature wasn't morally superior to any of the many alternatives -- in fact nature is artificial at its root, and you (or anyone else) could potentially improve upon what "nature" means at any level of reality or abstraction.

- Demons were real, and they totally wanted worship, but they weren't always worse than gods.

- You could be a Priest, which meant you were better at talking to gods / impressing gods.

- You could (pretend to) be a god. You could accrue benefits from worship. That's why the other gods do their thing, after all: they get paid in magic from prayers.

- You could kick over the existing major religion to re-distribute prayer-bucks where you want them to go.

- You could go around kicking god-butts and making them do their jobs instead of acting like warlords, but there's already a faction doing that. Don't let them catch you, they studied on killing Anathema after all.

- You could storm the gates of Heaven and demand that someone else do that god-butt kicking thing for you.

- You could storm the gates of Heaven and demand that you get command of the Aerial Legions so you can warlord it over all the other warlords.

- You could show up at the gates of Heaven with an invitation and partake in the politics of the Celestial Bureaucracy.

- You could go out in the Wyld and make your own Heaven, with hookers and blackjack, but that's basically what Malfeas did already so you might just want to go visit there instead.


The lack of an overarching morality telling you what you SHOULD do was really glorious. It allowed a lot of exploration in what people might do if given power without direction.

The variety of religious expression was also neat. There were enough similarities that you could explore real-world religious themes and issues, but enough significant differences that the stories we told didn't seem insulting or demonizing towards any real-world religions.

[Thinker]

The rules are a bit weird. I've just gone through the rules post to check, and we're supposed to read with the widest possible breadth, so by my reading that means that even if the last practitioner died out 4368 years ago then it's not allowed. If a mod could clarify this I would be grateful.


So let's see, what makes an interesting religion for RP. I think we've effectively split ourselves into two camps:
-The Gods camp, where the deities and their myths are the most important bit.
-the Cults camp, where practices, place in society, and scriptures are the most important bit.

Note that here I'm using myths to mean beliefs about the deity and scriptures to mean beliefs about the world.

Now ideally every religion will have all of this, but I'd much rather know how my character fits into society.

Put me in a Mechanics camp. In an RPG I'm more interested in how the characters are supposed to interact with religion. What benefits/drawbacks does that create?

[LibraryOgre]

Does this include historical religions, i.e., those with no current practitioners? Could we draw a date line at around 1,000 years ago?

The Mod Wonder: You may be surprised as to which religions have modern-day followers. Thus, it applies to all religions, save those in a purely fictional context.