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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    They also aren't contagious or otherwise apocalyptic. I'm pretty sure that vodoun zombies would be a problem for local governments, not national.
    Honestly, a vodoun zombie is more a problem for the local police or hospital, the way it is usualyl described. Not even the government.
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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Honestly, a vodoun zombie is more a problem for the local police or hospital, the way it is usualyl described. Not even the government.
    The zombi of Haitian vodoun is less a supernatural menace and more the fanatically loyal enforcer for a bokor, or evil sorcerer. It’s used in part to talk about people whose humanity or moral sensibility is lost in the process of “just following orders.” Haitian dictators, and Papa Doc in particular, frequently appropriated vodoun imagery for his own ends, and the modern zombi has at least partial basis in notorious perpetrators of political violence under government auspices.

    That’s not to say the zombi is intrinsically political, but rather that it’s not about physical malady so much as soullessness and the inextricability relationship between natural and supernatural evils. For purposes of an adventure game, I’d play it as a singular, highly dangerous figure capable of disguising itself as a human and willing to commit acts of terrible, heinous violence in the name of an even subtler master.
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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Honestly, a vodoun zombie is more a problem for the local police or hospital, the way it is usualyl described. Not even the government.
    I would generally count "the local police" as part of the government. After all, the government funds them and they enforce the government's law.
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    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    I would love to hear which myth or legend this is from.

    Medusa was mentioned earlier in the thread; I'd like to add that in myth, gorgons are a humanoid kind of creature (Medusa being one), whereas in D&D, they've somehow turned ino metallic bulls with petrifying breath. That has to be one of the more bizarre changes

    Another fun difference is how in most source material, creatures like vampires are pretty stupid and prone to ridiculous behavior (to the point where you can distract them by throwing rice on the ground, because they'll be compelled to stop chasing you until they've counted it all) which is a fary cry from the brilliantly scheming mastermind BBEGs that they've become...
    In the Invasions of Ireland Saga, the Tuatha De Danann lose to the modern irish (aka normal humans) and retreat to their Sidhes. I think there was some kind of peace teatry afterwards that divided Ireland into the Human and the Fairy halves, but I'm not sure it was trickery or just the Tuatha De Danann acknowledging their defeat...

    In a tale from German Folklore, the Kobolds were geese-footed invisible dwarves who were expelled from the surface due to human trickery (plus they were forced to pay a gold coin per living Kobold as a ransom).
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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    Someone should collect an anthology of vampires, with every story running on explicit and different rules of vampirism.
    There is more than one in fact, but it depend on what you look for. A start could be the book by Charlotte Montague, as it is a good balance between ease of reading and information. I also like the books of Claude Lecouteux.

    As an aside, the idea of Vampire as a BBEG can be in my opinion directly traced to the Vampire of Polidori and the representation of the romantic Byron as a superior mind and as a vampire.

    Also, I think it was Willie the Duck who said that, but Vlad the Vampire and the Stoker vampire are one and the same. The historical Vlad Tepes is actually a complex figure also heavily blurred by legend but vampirism play no part in it till Stoker. He is even envisaged as a Romanian national hero because of his fight again the ottomans.




    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post

    1. That's fair, I was just grumpy about how you only seemed to think it was a problem to talk about religion when it was being used to counter your argument. Especially since your argument, "There are no examples of GNPB in mythology," can really only be countered by talking about someone's religion.
    Yeah but I'm pretty convinced that I'm not Clistenes...

    2. I'm not sure there's a meaningful distinction between religion, mythology, and folklore. It all runs together and everything influences everything else. Perhaps the most obvious example is the fingerprints Christianity left on the mythologies of every land it spread to, creating the folklore we now know.
    I think they are in fact a lot of meaningful distinctions. Of course some limits may be blurry and they are of course some connections, depending on how you look at things.
    And depending of the argument the distinctions may be more or less relevant. But look like or influenced by does not mean is the same.

    I will go back to religion a bit latter when we speak about belief but one problem with that, as Ronald Hutton said in his book "Pagan Britain", a great read, is that the definitions of religions are heavily influenced by modern faith and specifically christianity.

    Still, mythology is mostly a corpus of texts. Those texts could be of various status but are mostly defined and envisaged in light of the greek corpus. We tend to think of it as a coherent set of texts but, as shown by their theater, they were ambivalent and a lot of stories were in fact modified by literary concepts and aesthetic considerations.

    Folklore is littoral an invention of the XIX century. It has become a shorthand for popular tales but even then the ideologies behind the formation of the concept are influential in its definition.

    Then the relationship between medieval christianity and older mythologies is very peculiar. roughly speaking, the monks were promoting their total control on the supernatural, asserting it as either miraculous, coming directly from god, or from the devil.

    But at the same time, around the XII century, you have the rise of the marvelous, the actual world of fairies and goblins.

    It was like a space between the christian ideology where other kinds of ideas could play. Interestingly, it was mostly the work of educated peoples like Marie de France, who was really instrumental in shaping the fairies as we know them, or by minstrels like Adam de la Halle.
    They would play with literary tropes and could be described a bit like the modern fantastic literature, playing the space in between, using the sensibilities of the time to subvert it.

    But they would also promote a different social order, like the ideology of the court and the social changes of high medieval time. Think of the famous Melusine of the Lusignan family or the matter of Britain.

    So the modern fairies were mostly invented in this period. Some would draw heavily on ancient goddess, like the godmother fairies that are connected to the goddess of destiny. You could find some of the oldest examples in the Perceforest, a medieval novel were ou could read one of the oldest version of sleeping Beauty. Other were of a more erotic nature, like Melusine or in the tale of Yvain, the knight of the lion.

    Again, the church tried to assert its influence on those spaces but was relatively unsuccessful. The transformation of those educated tales in folklore is quite another story.



    There are a couple of problems with this argument. The first being that you can't prove a negative by citing positives; after all, I never said everyone believed gods were dependent on human worship, just that later authors including that aspect weren't making it up out of nowhere. More importantly, though, humanity being subservient to gods is not mutually exclusive with gods being dependent on humanity.
    Yeah, but as shown by the famous kettle of Russell, you cannot prove a negative in any case. All you can do rationally is bring the positive arguments. So in this case the burden of proof is on your shoulders and you have to find actual examples of your point.

    The fact that later authors would bring this point is irrelevant when discussing the subject of Ancient Religions. Starting with Frazer and the Golden Bough, I can give you a lot of example of even great scholar mostly making stuff up, influenced by the ideologies of their time.

    On top of my head, the closer example of you point I can think of would be the death of the Great Pan but it is a late legend. And this interpretation is mostly made by christian apologists such as G.K.Chesterton and heavily disputed by most moderns scholars.


    After all, look at mortal kings. They are undeniably above the common folk, in the same way that gods are above humanity in general. Yet nobody can deny that kings are reliant on the common folk for power, prestige, and even survival. If a king loses the faith of his followers, how can he rule? If he fails to provide all that they expect of a king, how long until he loses his royal powers?
    Given how many cultures have made explicit parallels between gods and kings, I'd be shocked if none of them included a metaphysical version of the aforementioned connection in their belief system. If you fail to pay tribute to a king, they will fall and you will lose all the security and comfort they provide; likewise, if you fail to sacrifice to a god, they will also fall and you will lose all they provide.
    Here you use moderns ideas to understand the past and in my opinion it is a path that lead nowhere.

    I cannot say you are wrong, just that's not how a king would be considered in ancient societies. Look at Pharaoh as the most obvious example. As the person invested with the charge of applying Maat, the Divine rule on Earth, he is responsible for the good order of the relationship between humanity and the gods. It is the source of his power and it is natural, by essence, because it is the proper order of things, that he is above humanity, not because of the political structure you are bringing forward. The relationship work the other way around: it is not the people that give power to the king but the king that organize the world for his people.

    As late as medieval time, the revolts were not contesting the authority of the king but were referring to him as the ultimate and only source of legitimate authority. You have to wait till the modern age to start seeing peoples who understand the power and the politic in the terms you are using.

    Again, it's not that your understanding is false, it's just that your vocabulary is too modern and would not make sense for, say, a Mesopotamian farmer.




    There's one other point that I wanted to bring up, but which didn't seem particularly on-topic.

    I agree that religion/mythology/whatever in general is an attempt to make sense of the world, to understand it. I also understand the role that sacrifices play in that. But I disagree with the idea that belief is unimportant to ancient religion. Belief was important in different ways, but it was still important. At bare minimum, you would need to believe A. that the gods exist and B. that the gods either were worthy of whatever veneration you gave them or would give you something in return.
    You compared religion and politics a couple of times (which is an obvious enough comparison in ye olden days), so I'll do the same. How effective would a court system be if the people being governed refused to accept the existence or authority of the government which created those laws?
    Here I must agree with you. I should have used faith and not belief but I thought it would have been a bridge too far. I intended to say that the personal relationship between a person and a god was in no way significant. Of course, a shared belief, in the wider use of the term is still important, but as you pointed correctly, the word has too many senses to be relevant in this context.

    In fact, the apparition of faith is the background of the religious revolution, the new relationship that is central to the first steps of christianity but is also evident in Mithraeism and lead to the credo, the profession of faith around the passage from BCE to CE.

    It is again a huge subject, and you have to factor in somewhere the problem of mysteries, as in the famous rituals of Eleusis, who could have been influential in this process.

    But again, as much as I think those considerations are important to discuss the topic of supernatural creatures, as they are always living in a context, you understand that I'm not sure how deep I should dwell on such matters.

    Regardless, thanks for sharing! It was an interesting read.
    And you are welcome, the pleasure is mine as I really try to understand such topics and it cost me a lot of time and efforts. Again I think those questions are related to the discussion, as they are the necessary background to understand how those things would play out.
    But I gave you only a glimpse, as always, the deeper we go on the specifics of each cultural set of beliefs, rituals and practices, the more we need to be precise to be relevant.

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Epimethee View Post
    Also, I think it was Willie the Duck who said that, but Vlad the Vampire and the Stoker vampire are one and the same. The historical Vlad Tepes is actually a complex figure also heavily blurred by legend but vampirism play no part in it till Stoker. He is even envisaged as a Romanian national hero because of his fight again the ottomans.
    I can't tell what you are suggesting I said. Kurald Galain found it interesting that vampires had moved from "prone to ridiculous behavior (to the point where you can distract them by throwing rice on the ground)" to mastermind. I thought it might have come from the overall "Count ___" version of vampires, to which I made a direct link from Vlad Dracula to Stoker Dracula to all the knockoffs like Strahd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    That is definitely a conception of the broad subject of vampires. Of course the mastermind part could have simply come from another vampire inspiration. I'm guessing a vague chain from Vlad-Dracula to Stoker's Dracula to all the other 'counts' living in castles and controlling the lives of others through being a noble and/or mesmerism.
    Again there is no chain from Vlad Dracula to Stoker’s Dracula. Stoker choose this Name for reasons and it stuck because of the success of his work. The idea of vampire as a noble come from Polidori, like the mesmerism.

    You have also to credit Varney the Vampire, a popular novel from around 1850 in shaping the vampire as a mastermind.

    That was my only point but i still think it is important to state those kind of facts.

    Also sorry for any misunderstanding!

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Epimethee View Post
    Again there is no chain from Vlad Dracula to Stoker’s Dracula. Stoker choose this Name for reasons and it stuck because of the success of his work. The idea of vampire as a noble come from Polidori, like the mesmerism.
    Pretty much this. During Vlad Dracula's life, his political enemies did a good job of tarring his name in the West and especially in the Vatican. Insofar as Stoker needed a continental nobleman painted by the popular history of his time as a godless psychopath, Dracula was a safe pick.

    Mind you, Dracula was and is noted for his cruelty even among his apologists, but there's plenty of people even in modern Romania who see him as a darkly heroic figure employing methods that were brutal but necessary under the historical circumstances.
    Last edited by gkathellar; 2018-11-08 at 02:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Epimethee View Post
    Again there is no chain from Vlad Dracula to Stoker’s Dracula. Stoker choose this Name for reasons and it stuck because of the success of his work.
    How is that not a chain?

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Epimethee View Post
    -snip-

    Still, mythology is mostly a corpus of texts. Those texts could be of various status but are mostly defined and envisaged in light of the greek corpus. We tend to think of it as a coherent set of texts but, as shown by their theater, they were ambivalent and a lot of stories were in fact modified by literary concepts and aesthetic considerations.

    Folklore is littoral an invention of the XIX century. It has become a shorthand for popular tales but even then the ideologies behind the formation of the concept are influential in its definition.
    I'd like to ask a couple of questions:
    1. A corpus is a structured set of texts, right? I'm not sure it's accurate to say that all things commonly filed under "mythology" are structured. You can make that argument for the various Greek plays and other ways they "codified" their mythology, and for the Prose and Poetic Edda in Norse Mythology, but that's about it AFAIK.
    2. What is the difference between a set of popular myths arranged into a corpus and a set of popular tales not arranged into a corpus? I mean, aside from whether or not they've been organized and structured, but it doesn't seem like whether or not someone's come along and organized the old stories should affect whethe or not they're considered mythology.

    Stuff about fairy history
    Again, interesting. Thanks for sharing!

    Yeah, but as shown by the famous kettle of Russell, you cannot prove a negative in any case. All you can do rationally is bring the positive arguments. So in this case the burden of proof is on your shoulders and you have to find actual examples of your point.
    1. I'm not convinced that that is the case, since you were the one asserting that GNPB was a deviation from source material.
    2. I did. It was right before you noticed that we were discussing religion.

    The fact that later authors would bring this point is irrelevant when discussing the subject of Ancient Religions.
    I was referring to the original conversation, about later (fantasy) authors including gods who need prayer badly, and saying they weren't just making that up themselves—that there were precedents in mythology/folklore/religion/whatever.

    Here you use moderns ideas to understand the past and in my opinion it is a path that lead nowhere.
    -snip-
    Again, it's not that your understanding is false, it's just that your vocabulary is too modern and would not make sense for, say, a Mesopotamian farmer.
    I'll have to take your word for it. I know that that was the official belief, but I have no idea how common it was to doubt that belief.


    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    How is that not a chain?
    Maybe because it's only one link? Seems like an odd argument to make, though...
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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    Maybe because it's only one link? Seems like an odd argument to make, though...
    Well yes, but that was shortened from mine of vladula->strokula->strahd, but even that was just plotting a line, not showing all the links (I guess Lugosi belongs in the lineup somewhere).

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    I find it interesting that the myth of Koschei the Deathless seems to have been one of the inspirations for the D&D lich's phylactery, while Koschei himself became "Kostchtchie", a demon lord of frost giants, for...no good reason, other than Koschei usually being represented as a tall, evil old wizard?

    In his legend, (and here I'm quoting Wikipedia to be safe), Koschei cannot be killed by conventional means targeting his body. His soul (or death) is hidden separate from his body inside a needle, which is in an egg, which is in a duck, which is in a hare, which is in an iron chest (sometimes the chest is crystal and/or gold), which is buried under a green oak tree, which is on the island of Buyan in the ocean. As long as his soul is safe, he cannot die. If the chest is dug up and opened, the hare will bolt away; if it is killed, the duck will emerge and try to fly off. Anyone possessing the egg has Koschei in their power. He begins to weaken, becomes sick, and immediately loses the use of his magic. If the egg is tossed about, he likewise is flung around against his will. If the needle is broken, Koschei will die.
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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post

    In his legend, (and here I'm quoting Wikipedia to be safe), Koschei cannot be killed by conventional means targeting his body. His soul (or death) is hidden separate from his body inside a needle, which is in an egg, which is in a duck, which is in a hare, which is in an iron chest (sometimes the chest is crystal and/or gold), which is buried under a green oak tree, which is on the island of Buyan in the ocean. As long as his soul is safe, he cannot die. If the chest is dug up and opened, the hare will bolt away; if it is killed, the duck will emerge and try to fly off. Anyone possessing the egg has Koschei in their power. He begins to weaken, becomes sick, and immediately loses the use of his magic. If the egg is tossed about, he likewise is flung around against his will. If the needle is broken, Koschei will die.
    I thought Mercedes Lackey's take on this was hilarious:

    Tales of the Five Hundred Kingdoms: Fortune's Fool:

    “There was an oak tree in the forecourt—it’s gone now. There was a dragon curled around the foot of a tree. In the tree was a chest. In the chest was a fox in the fox was a rabbit, in the rabbit was another duck, in the duck was an egg and in the egg was his heart. You had to get past the dragon, climb the tree, open the chest, kill the fox before it got away, then kill the rabbit, then kill the duck and break the egg.”

    Katya’s brows rose. “Good heavens. That just shrieks ‘I am an important hiding place - look into me!’ Why didn’t he just put a big sign on a tree that said My Heart Is Up Here?”
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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post
    I find it interesting that the myth of Koschei the Deathless seems to have been one of the inspirations for the D&D lich's phylactery, while Koschei himself became "Kostchtchie", a demon lord of frost giants, for...no good reason, other than Koschei usually being represented as a tall, evil old wizard?
    He's also from a cold region of the world

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Trolls vary a lot in Nordic folklore, they are now mostly known as ugly brutish beasts that regenerate unless struck with fire.

    But in many stories they are creatures of exceptional beauty, grace and intelligence. The only thing that reveals their true nature is that they have a cows tail.

    They can also be friendly and helpful, giving rewards to those who assist them and there are even tales of marriages between humans and trolls.

    Other differences:
    They can't walk past iron, steel or silver.
    They turn to stone if hit by sunlight.
    They can't stand the sound of church bells.
    If you talk about them they might appear (there is a saying in Swedish that is similar to the "speak of the devil" one, but with trolls instead).
    Last edited by The Patterner; 2018-11-14 at 09:46 AM. Reason: Spelling

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patterner View Post
    Trolls vary a lot in Nordic folklore, they are now mostly known as ugly brutish beasts that regenerate unless struck with fire.
    I think the regeneration thing is specific to D&D. It doesn't seem to figure into any of the other modern media I've seen that features trolls (Discworld, Middle Earth, MS Paint Adventures, Hilda, Frozen, Trolls)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Honestly, a vodoun zombie is more a problem for the local police or hospital, the way it is usualyl described. Not even the government.
    The scary thing about voudoun zombies isn't to be attacked by one (they are actually less dangerous than a regular person...), but the fact that you can be turned into one...

    When a bokor wants to kill you using a monster, they will throw scariest stuff than a mere zombie at you: They are said to be able to capture a human's "gwo-bonanj" (one of the two souls of a human, the one representing power, intelligence and lifeforce...) into a jar, turn it into a shapeshifting invisible monster and send it to kill their foes...

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    This whole vodou zombie discussion is veering pretty close to real world religion - a category vodou fits in pretty clearly.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    I think the regeneration thing is specific to D&D. It doesn't seem to figure into any of the other modern media I've seen that features trolls (Discworld, Middle Earth, MS Paint Adventures, Hilda, Frozen, Trolls)
    I thought it was present in Poul Anderson's 3 Hearts & 3 Lions - which provided the prototype for the green, warty, long-nosed D&D troll.
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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I thought it was present in Poul Anderson's 3 Hearts & 3 Lions - which provided the prototype for the green, warty, long-nosed D&D troll.
    Yes, I'm not seeing much about warts mind. About eight feet tall with a stoop and arms that touch the ground, and a yard long nose, and eyes with no iris or white.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post
    In his legend, (and here I'm quoting Wikipedia to be safe), Koschei cannot be killed by conventional means targeting his body. His soul (or death) is hidden separate from his body inside a needle, which is in an egg, which is in a duck, which is in a hare, which is in an iron chest (sometimes the chest is crystal and/or gold), which is buried under a green oak tree, which is on the island of Buyan in the ocean. As long as his soul is safe, he cannot die. If the chest is dug up and opened, the hare will bolt away; if it is killed, the duck will emerge and try to fly off. Anyone possessing the egg has Koschei in their power. He begins to weaken, becomes sick, and immediately loses the use of his magic. If the egg is tossed about, he likewise is flung around against his will. If the needle is broken, Koschei will die.
    If you're a powerful wizard and the best defense for keeping your soul jar away from anyone who opens the chest is a bunny, you're a failure. Though getting a live duck inside the bunny is quite a feat.


    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    This whole vodou zombie discussion is veering pretty close to real world religion - a category vodou fits in pretty clearly.
    Probably...but any discussion of real-world mythology is going to be dancing next to that line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I thought it was present in Poul Anderson's 3 Hearts & 3 Lions - which provided the prototype for the green, warty, long-nosed D&D troll.
    Never heard of it

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patterner View Post
    Other differences:
    They can't walk past iron, steel or silver.
    They turn to stone if hit by sunlight.
    They can't stand the sound of church bells.
    If you talk about them they might appear (there is a saying in Swedish that is similar to the "speak of the devil" one, but with trolls instead).
    The sunlight one is in most modern media in some form.

    *Played straight in Middle Earth and in Hilda
    *Discworld's trolls are earth elementals who are already stone regardless and can't stand direct sunlight because the heat makes them slow and dopey, in extreme cases knocking them unconscious and making them effectively inanimate rocks until the cold of night allows them to wake up
    *The trolls in MS Paint Adventures aren't turned to stone, but have delicate visual systems adapted to darkness and going out in the sunlight can permanently blind them

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    Never heard of it
    It's the source (sort of) of D&D Paladins, the Law vs Chaos conflict (along with Michael Moorcock's works), and the regenerating troll.
    And it's an isekai story.
    Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
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    That said, trolling is entirely counterproductive (yes, even when it's hilarious).

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    Probably...but any discussion of real-world mythology is going to be dancing next to that line.
    Oh, sure - I've gotten dinged for things I thought were safely in mythology before - this is just particularly close to the line, veering hard away from mythology and into religion.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    Oh, sure - I've gotten dinged for things I thought were safely in mythology before
    Me too.

    Maybe we could mirror this thread on some less restrictive forum? If anyone has a suggestion for one.

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbane View Post
    It's the source (sort of) of D&D Paladins, the Law vs Chaos conflict (along with Michael Moorcock's works), and the regenerating troll.
    And it's an isekai story.
    I'd argue that "isekai" is a bit more than just "ends up in another world," being defined by that plus a series of other cliches that riddle the genre. It's hard to define exact characteristics of the genre, but the protagonist being a nerd who ends up discovering he's super-important in the new world, as well as getting plenty of power-ups and multiple potential love interests, would probably be a good start.
    looks up 3 Hearts & 3 Lions
    Um, never mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patterner View Post
    Other differences:
    They can't walk past iron, steel or silver.
    They turn to stone if hit by sunlight.
    They can't stand the sound of church bells.
    If you talk about them they might appear (there is a saying in Swedish that is similar to the "speak of the devil" one, but with trolls instead).
    I remember from the film Troll Hunter that certain types of troll could smell the blood of a baptised person.

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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    As opposed to giants, which can smell the blood of Englishmen, fee fi fo fen?
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
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    Default Re: What folklore inspired creatures have really changed from their original versions

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    I remember from the film Troll Hunter that certain types of troll could smell the blood of a baptised person.
    Is that how they ended up settling that? I remember at least thematically adjacent detection methods, but then it got really vague about details. Mostly because the troll hunter didn't know the detection rules around the replacement camera operator.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

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