The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    You really know nothing about life on a sailing ship, do y'all?
    It seems a pretty big stretch to make that assumption based on what has been said in this thread. I fully stated that the still was hyperbolic extrapolation and that the likely age-of-sail equivalent would be a stored stash, and HorizonWalker was speaking about the more general process of alcohol creation not needing heat.

    There is no space not crammed full of gear or supplies before you leave port, there are no vegetables or fruits unless you are in port (in which case you just buy booze from a bumboat) and the only bread is hardtack. And the only water is in casks and closely monitored as it is literally your lifeblood once you're out of sight of land. You do not have the makings for fermentation-based products. And without heat it will take months for the product to be made, which is plenty of time for the daily inspections to find your still. And once it is found, well, at best you get a hundred lashes for sabotaging the ship. If the captain wants to make a point, you get hung without trial and your back pay forfeited to the ship's purser for his general profits).
    This is literally the point of discussion. Understanding human behavior and nipping it in the bud before it becomes a problem. That is the why of the rum ration-- so that people don't do anything stupid and that insubordinate actions don't happen in the first place (for example, people didn't have stills in their age-of-sail vessels. You do realize that that is what we were arguing, not the opposite, right?). Risk of serious consequence does not stop people from doing reckless things and that is literally the point people were discussing (with alcohol, and later alcohol pre-engine rooms, being at most tangential side points).
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2019-09-11 at 07:38 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #152
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    You really know nothing about life on a sailing ship, do y'all? There is no space not crammed full of gear or supplies before you leave port, there are no vegetables or fruits unless you are in port (in which case you just buy booze from a bumboat) and the only bread is hardtack. And the only water is in casks and closely monitored as it is literally your lifeblood once you're out of sight of land. You do not have the makings for fermentation-based products. And without heat it will take months for the product to be made, which is plenty of time for the daily inspections to find your still. And once it is found, well, at best you get a hundred lashes for sabotaging the ship. If the captain wants to make a point, you get hung without trial and your back pay forfeited to the ship's purser for his general profits).
    What are you talking about? For someone who is so casually dismissive about people "knowing nothing about life on a sailing ship" you...don't seem to know what you're talking about when it comes to brewing. You don't need a still to make alcohol. You just need yeast (something you're going to have. It's everywhere and you don't need to collect it, it'll collect itself), water (yeah this'll be the hard part) sugars and some kind of carb. Sure. You'd probably want barley or malt, to make it taste good, but your hardtack is going to do you well enough if you crush it up and throw it in the mix. The yeast will love that. It also won't take "months" as you say. Beer takes around two weeks to brew. Shorter if you're not picky on how it tastes. We'll get to that in a second.

    Then you just need a jug or some other receptacle in that you can keep as airtight as possible and then you've got the makings of really really crappy booze. But it'll get you drunk. Especially if you throw in all the preserved fruits you can muster (which naval sailing ships absolutely kept). That'll give the yeast more to eat and thus produce more alcohol. It'll still taste like utter death but again. The goal is to get drunk, not taste something good.

    If you can make booze in prison (and you can) then you absolutely can make it on a sailing ship. Not only did they do it, they kept rum rations on ships as mentioned because the water would go south quickly and they'd have to use the booze to make it both flavorful and kill the bacteria in the water. Grog was a thing. You're also just totally off base on what sorts of food were kept at sea. You know that ships kept provision logs and we have access to a good number of them? They had all sorts of preserved fruits, cheeses, oatmeal, rye and course flour in their larders.

    Not only that. Ships had the ability to brew beer at sea. Here's an excerpt from "A Voyage towards the South Pole and Round the World Performed in His Majesty’s Ships the Resolution and Adventure"

    "It hath been a constant observation, that in long cruizes or distant voyages, the scurvy is never seen whilst the small-beer holds out, at a full allowance; but that when it is all expended, that ailment soon appears. It were therefore to be wished, that this most wholesome beverage could be renewed at sea; but our ships afford not sufficient convenience. The Russians however make a shift to prepare on board, as well as at land, a liquor of a middle quality between wort and small-beer, in the following manner. They take ground-malt and rye-meal in a certain proportion, which they knead into small loaves, and bake in the oven. These they occasionally infuse in a proper quantity of warm water, which begins so soon to ferment, that in the space of twenty-four hours their brewage is completed, in the production of a small, brisk, and acidulous liquor, they call quas, palatable to themselves, and not disagreeable to the taste of strangers"

    The author, a one James Cox, mentions that while their ship did not have the provisions to brew beer the Russian ships did. They did it in the same way I suggested they might have without actually having checked for sources of actual historical precedent too. Or near enough. So ya know. A+. I'd be a good Ship's Brewer. Not just because I know the recipe but because I've made beer before.


    I'm curious what your credentials are Mr. Demonblud, if that is your real name, on living on a sailing ship. I've brewed beer. Without a still. In an AC controlled apartment. I'd link you to like, a hundred youtube videos demonstrating this point as well but I feel I've already done enough to blow your ship out of the water.

    tl;dr - They made beer on sailing ships. Without getting in trouble because they realized how super important it was to the lives of every single crewmember on board. There is historical evidence to this fact.
    Last edited by Razade; 2019-09-13 at 04:17 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts

    Is Niomi falling in panel 2?
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    What are you talking about? <Snip>.
    Razade, thanks for doing what I keep asking people to do when they want to showcase supposed knowledge on forum like these: actually provide it (and/or providing links or bibliographic reference to said material, such that we can independently verify). Given that Rogar didn't bother carefully reading what people had said (such that he excoriated HorizonWalker and myself for holding the exact opposite positions as we had actually stated), I think it safe to say that this was deliberate drivel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Is Niomi falling in panel 2?
    Falling, drifting, controlled careening, there are probably lots of ways to frame it. It does look like she is using her feet and the floor to guide her movement. Regardless, she is moving to the back of the ship, which is on much less than 1 gee of acceleration -- too low for "proper" coffee brewing (which I assume is drip- or perk-). Sam, already at the 'bottom' of the corridor, is using the acceleration to keep him affixed to his seat, and thus is oriented to treat the direction in which the ship is travelling as 'up.' All of this highlights the unusual-for-sci-fi situation where a ship that looks like it was built for artificial gravity is used in a more realistic setting.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts

    Right, I forgot it was less than 1g.
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