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  1. - Top - End - #991
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    Tyrant's sense of humor is sublime.

  2. - Top - End - #992
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    Just finished chapter 30. I really hope Practical Guide has a better ending then that. Worm declines after Skitter turns herself in, then collapses entirely by chapter 30.

    The entire point of her character was she played fair and people wouldn't listen, and then she slowly corrupts them into being open minded. The Undersiders decide to save Dinah when none of them really cared to start with, and other people like Dragon and Defiant come to her point of view. Her power is limited and she uses it in lots of interesting ways to get around.

    The ending is her having unlimited mind control powers and ramming 3k supers into God against their will, and eventually he breaks. Its bad. On par with Cat deciding that the solution to her problems would be mass demon summoning and flying fortresses.
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  3. - Top - End - #993
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    Just finished chapter 30. I really hope Practical Guide has a better ending then that. Worm declines after Skitter turns herself in, then collapses entirely by chapter 30.

    The entire point of her character was she played fair and people wouldn't listen, and then she slowly corrupts them into being open minded. The Undersiders decide to save Dinah when none of them really cared to start with, and other people like Dragon and Defiant come to her point of view. Her power is limited and she uses it in lots of interesting ways to get around.

    The ending is her having unlimited mind control powers and ramming 3k supers into God against their will, and eventually he breaks. Its bad. On par with Cat deciding that the solution to her problems would be mass demon summoning and flying fortresses.
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    As much as I love Worm, this is all very true. Wildbow's biggest strength has always been his characters, and the Chicago Wards could never hope to hold a candle to the Undersiders in terms of character development or narrative strength. The story almost regains its former greatness when the Slaughterhouse 9 return and Taylor is running alongside her old crew again... then Scion goes berserk, cast members start dropping like flies, and the pedal for forward momentum gets pressed down so hard it goes through the floor.

    I will say that I did enjoy the epilogue, though, as well as the battle against Behemoth. But again, that's because those arcs are more character-driven than they are action-driven, and that's where Wildbow works best.

  4. - Top - End - #994
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    And all of the above is why Twig is by far Wildbow's best work.

  5. - Top - End - #995
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    I couldn't figure out if the author intended to have 40 chapters and then just got bored with the wards really fast, or if he/she got bored. The first 20 chapters are in three months, the next 10 over three years.

    Personally I could have stopped reading at Coil dying (or Skitter killing Alexandria) and been perfectly fine with it. The original character arc really terminates when Emma sees Skitter defeat Dragon using school children, and then Skitter realizes she is going to become a monster if she doesn't stop.


    I really appreciate that Practical Guide to Evil had a big party split and then smoothly put it back together.
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2019-09-23 at 03:50 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    And all of the above is why Twig is by far Wildbow's best work.
    I could never get into Twig, because I really don't enjoy children as characters. Or at least, Wildbow's take on children characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    I couldn't figure out if the author intended to have 40 chapters and then just got bored with the wards really fast, or if he/she got bored. The first 20 chapters are in three months, the next 10 over three years.

    Personally I could have stopped reading at Coil dying (or Skitter killing Alexandria) and been perfectly fine with it. The original character arc really terminates when Emma sees Skitter defeat Dragon using school children, and then Skitter realizes she is going to become a monster if she doesn't stop.


    I really appreciate that Practical Guide to Evil had a big party split and then smoothly put it back together.
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    I like the ending, I feel it's very thematic with Taylor's journey. She's someone who sacrificed parts of herself every step of the journey, and ends with her sacrificing what makes her a person at all. And in the end her reward is to become a monster. To be unceremoniously executed (yes, I maintain that she dies at the end) to protect the world from her.

    The timeskip though? Was without a doubt the weakest part of the story. The Wards get barely any screentime, and what little they do has basically nothing to do with who Taylor becomes. They put in two new Endbringers, and we don't actually get a full fight scene with either of them. Not to mention all the BS of Taylor in prison, the PR stuff, ect. It all combines for a really weak lead up to the end arc with the Slaughterhouse 9000 and the fight against Scion.

    The Slaughterhouse 9000 was only mediocre as well. It had some cool moments, but the majority of it was irrelevant. The stuff not dealing with Jack directly was basically a time waster. Which brings us to the Scion fight, and I feel they did a pretty good job at that. A threat so great that humanity can't win, and so humanity stops trying and starts infighting. And Taylor desperately trying to find a way to be relevant against a threat of that magnitude. And nothing working until she well, sacrificed her sanity. Even that wasn't enough, it just put her on enough of a threat level to buy time for the rest of the Undersiders, who were the only people she refused to enslave, to give her the actual solution.

    But for all of that? In doesn't come anywhere close to the fight against Coil or Enchinda or Tagg/Alexandria in quality. That was where the story was at it's best.
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  7. - Top - End - #997
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I could never get into Twig, because I really don't enjoy children as characters. Or at least, Wildbow's take on children characters.



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    I like the ending, I feel it's very thematic with Taylor's journey. She's someone who sacrificed parts of herself every step of the journey, and ends with her sacrificing what makes her a person at all. And in the end her reward is to become a monster. To be unceremoniously executed (yes, I maintain that she dies at the end) to protect the world from her.

    The timeskip though? Was without a doubt the weakest part of the story. The Wards get barely any screentime, and what little they do has basically nothing to do with who Taylor becomes. They put in two new Endbringers, and we don't actually get a full fight scene with either of them. Not to mention all the BS of Taylor in prison, the PR stuff, ect. It all combines for a really weak lead up to the end arc with the Slaughterhouse 9000 and the fight against Scion.

    The Slaughterhouse 9000 was only mediocre as well. It had some cool moments, but the majority of it was irrelevant. The stuff not dealing with Jack directly was basically a time waster. Which brings us to the Scion fight, and I feel they did a pretty good job at that. A threat so great that humanity can't win, and so humanity stops trying and starts infighting. And Taylor desperately trying to find a way to be relevant against a threat of that magnitude. And nothing working until she well, sacrificed her sanity. Even that wasn't enough, it just put her on enough of a threat level to buy time for the rest of the Undersiders, who were the only people she refused to enslave, to give her the actual solution.

    But for all of that? In doesn't come anywhere close to the fight against Coil or Enchinda or Tagg/Alexandria in quality. That was where the story was at it's best.
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    I really didn't like the fight with Scion, to be honest. The fights against Behemoth, Echidna and Leviathan were great and illustrated what big supers fighters can be like, godzilla vs. justice league style. The fight against Coil and the first fight against the 9 were great for being about out thinking people and feeling boxed in by others' plans.

    The second slaughter house arc was okay, Jack dying to Grey Boy was perfect and Nibolg was a cool (if too briefly passed over) character. The time skip was bad. They could have skipped the Behemoth fight and just had Leviathan, Behemoth and Skimurgh fight Scion and it would have been exactly the same without adding in the three new Endbringers.

    Taylor always wanted to sacrifice herself, it was a major component of her character from the beginning. She was willing to risk herself to fight Lung, then to infiltrate the Undersiders, etc. If the story is a Greek tragedy I could see going that way, but it felt like Taylor had been slowly learning to not be that person who risks themselves endlessly, abandons her friends and uses force to get other people to comply. She even had a moment in the Cauldron rescue where she says that Skitter would have sacrificed herself to save everyone but Taylor wouldn't.
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  8. - Top - End - #998
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    I really didn't like the fight with Scion, to be honest. The fights against Behemoth, Echidna and Leviathan were great and illustrated what big supers fighters can be like, godzilla vs. justice league style. The fight against Coil and the first fight against the 9 were great for being about out thinking people and feeling boxed in by others' plans.

    The second slaughter house arc was okay, Jack dying to Grey Boy was perfect and Nibolg was a cool (if too briefly passed over) character. The time skip was bad. They could have skipped the Behemoth fight and just had Leviathan, Behemoth and Skimurgh fight Scion and it would have been exactly the same without adding in the three new Endbringers.

    Taylor always wanted to sacrifice herself, it was a major component of her character from the beginning. She was willing to risk herself to fight Lung, then to infiltrate the Undersiders, etc. If the story is a Greek tragedy I could see going that way, but it felt like Taylor had been slowly learning to not be that person who risks themselves endlessly, abandons her friends and uses force to get other people to comply. She even had a moment in the Cauldron rescue where she says that Skitter would have sacrificed herself to save everyone but Taylor wouldn't.
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    Those were all great fights. Scion's fight was pretty weak in comparison to those.

    The Slaughterhouse 9000 was good from Nibolg onward. The beginning of it was basically a waste of time and should've been glossed over quicker than it was.

    It certainly would've made for a much different sequel if she didn't sacrifice herself, and let the world be reduced to 1% of the population. Maybe even superior to what we've got. Still for all her growth she never really got out of the habit of sacrificing whatever is needed for victory.
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  9. - Top - End - #999
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    Is the sequel a massive space opera? They have thousands of Earths to occupy, magic powers and a decline population. Seems like it would have to be set hundreds of years later or be the equivalent of a pioneering story. Like Tales of the Long Earth but with super powers.
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  10. - Top - End - #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    Is the sequel a massive space opera? They have thousands of Earths to occupy, magic powers and a decline population. Seems like it would have to be set hundreds of years later or be the equivalent of a pioneering story. Like Tales of the Long Earth but with super powers.
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    More like three years in the future. I'm not caught up on the sequel but basically the conflict seems to be largely based around the heroes (and by extension the majority of society) trying to pretend the world still operates under mostly the same rules, and the villains realizing the truth that in a post apocalyptic world there isn't a higher authority to answer to anymore. Meanwhile, several of the other populated worlds are moving in, wanting to conquer/control/ect Earth's bet's population, basically in order to gain the alligence of it's capes.

    Anyways, while there is now infinite space and effectively infinite resources, there is no infrastructure, populace, or will to actually take advantage of that fact. Before they can get a golden age where scarcity no longer exists, they first have to actually rebuild and move forward rather than trying to cling to the past.
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  11. - Top - End - #1001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
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    More like three years in the future. I'm not caught up on the sequel but basically the conflict seems to be largely based around the heroes (and by extension the majority of society) trying to pretend the world still operates under mostly the same rules, and the villains realizing the truth that in a post apocalyptic world there isn't a higher authority to answer to anymore. Meanwhile, several of the other populated worlds are moving in, wanting to conquer/control/ect Earth's bet's population, basically in order to gain the alligence of it's capes.

    Anyways, while there is now infinite space and effectively infinite resources, there is no infrastructure, populace, or will to actually take advantage of that fact. Before they can get a golden age where scarcity no longer exists, they first have to actually rebuild and move forward rather than trying to cling to the past.
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    How is the writing? The first 2/3 of Worm were amazing, so if it comes close to that I will probably read it but if not I'll leave it.

    One thing I really like about pre-shippuden Worm is how intimate the story is. The author is amazing at writing character interactions and how different people respond to a crisis. More of that would be great.
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  12. - Top - End - #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    How is the writing? The first 2/3 of Worm were amazing, so if it comes close to that I will probably read it but if not I'll leave it.

    One thing I really like about pre-shippuden Worm is how intimate the story is. The author is amazing at writing character interactions and how different people respond to a crisis. More of that would be great.
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    It's a mixed bag overall, I'd say.

    The new protagonist (left unsaid if you don't know their identity yet) is much more moral and worldly-wise than Taylor, but also a lot more emotionally fragile, so expect a fair share of angst and existential introspection, especially in the early chapters.

    If Worm's brisk pacing was one of the things you enjoyed about it, don't go into Ward expecting the same. The story is much more slow-burn, with more complex plotting right off the bat, mysteries that appear early and don't pay off for quite a few arcs, and liberal sprinkling of interludes across major plot events (including a whole interlude arc that cuts right through the middle of another big story event). I eventually stopped trying to read every chapter as soon as it came out due to how slow it was going.

    The character work is roughly as good (which is to say very good) as the original series, with an all-new team of varied damaged goods that our hero needs to sort through and try to therapize with. Action scenes are a mixed bag overall. Many of them suffer from too many characters and weird power effects flying around to really be coherent, but those that are just one-on-one throw downs are usually much easier and more enjoyable to follow.

  13. - Top - End - #1003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    How is the writing? The first 2/3 of Worm were amazing, so if it comes close to that I will probably read it but if not I'll leave it.

    One thing I really like about pre-shippuden Worm is how intimate the story is. The author is amazing at writing character interactions and how different people respond to a crisis. More of that would be great.
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    The new team is good, and I like the character interactions. I hate the interlude arc, and eventually ended up skipping the rest of it.

    It is much slower paced, and the character's viewpoint is much more limited. There's a lot of dangers and conspiracies in the works, but we only get to see the edges of them. Well, at the point I'm at anyways. Like I said, I'm not caught up.
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  14. - Top - End - #1004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    How is the writing? The first 2/3 of Worm were amazing, so if it comes close to that I will probably read it but if not I'll leave it.

    One thing I really like about pre-shippuden Worm is how intimate the story is. The author is amazing at writing character interactions and how different people respond to a crisis. More of that would be great.
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    I think it's sadly turning incoherent. It's getting more and more difficult to tell what's happening in action scenes. There is continual and increasing angst. Or maybe that's me.


    One trait that seems to be spreading through all of the web serials, I suspect it started in PGtE? is having three or four characters present, and referring to all of them by at least four names (nickname, title, description, forename, surname), one after the other, which I personally find confusing and irritating.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  15. - Top - End - #1005
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    I agree that the ending of Worm was weaker than the rest of it; Wildbow's strength is generally in the setup and in the "downtimes"; the action is decent, but noticeably not as good as the rest in general. This isn't an insult - it's a compliment to the rest of the work Wildbow does.

    That said, the action is necessary - not only to up the excitement, but to provide good spots for the character moments. Scion fight included.

    Here's an explanation of why that put it into words for me: http://prequelsredeemed.blogspot.com...ng-is-end.html


    This discussion is beginning to be a bit Worm-heavy; might be worth splitting off into a separate thread?
    Last edited by uncool; 2019-09-23 at 08:33 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #1006
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncool View Post
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    I agree that the ending of Worm was weaker than the rest of it; Wildbow's strength is generally in the setup and in the "downtimes"; the action is decent, but noticeably not as good as the rest in general. This isn't an insult - it's a compliment to the rest of the work Wildbow does.

    That said, the action is necessary - not only to up the excitement, but to provide good spots for the character moments. Scion fight included.

    Here's an explanation of why that put it into words for me: http://prequelsredeemed.blogspot.com...ng-is-end.html


    This discussion is beginning to be a bit Worm-heavy; might be worth splitting off into a separate thread?
    Nah, I feel like this conversation is wrapping up anyways.
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  17. - Top - End - #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
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    I think it's sadly turning incoherent. It's getting more and more difficult to tell what's happening in action scenes. There is continual and increasing angst. Or maybe that's me.


    One trait that seems to be spreading through all of the web serials, I suspect it started in PGtE? is having three or four characters present, and referring to all of them by at least four names (nickname, title, description, forename, surname), one after the other, which I personally find confusing and irritating.
    That's just a thing in books in general. Particularly books with large casts.

    Look at epics like the Wheel of Time, for example. Depending on who is talking to the main character he's either Rand (his given name), Al'Thor (his surname), Lews Therin (his past life), or The Dragon Reborn (his title; well, one of the them. He has like 8.). Most other principal characters get the same treatment.

    It's repetitive to refer to a character the same way every time, particularly when they need to be established as the current speaker multiple times on the same page, such as in chapters with a lot of conversation between 4 or more people.

    And really it's how people are talked about in real life. William, Bill, Mr. Gates, and "my boss" can all refer to the same person depending on how familiar you are with them.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2019-09-23 at 09:18 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    And all of the above is why Twig is by far Wildbow's best work.
    Eh. Pact was better.
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    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

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  19. - Top - End - #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    That's just a thing in books in general. Particularly books with large casts.

    Look at epics like the Wheel of Time, for example. Depending on who is talking to the main character he's either Rand (his given name), Al'Thor (his surname), Lews Therin (his past life), or The Dragon Reborn (his title; well, one of the them. He has like 8.). Most other principal characters get the same treatment.
    It may have started with the Wheel of Time (which I haven't read, and am less inclined to hearing it does this a lot), it didn't start with the Lord of the Rings for example.

    [QUOTE]It's repetitive to refer to a character the same way every time, particularly when they need to be established as the current speaker multiple times on the same page, such as in chapters with a lot of conversation between 4 or more people.

    Repetition is a little bad stylistically, but being confusing is much worse.

    And really it's how people are talked about in real life. William, Bill, Mr. Gates, and "my boss" can all refer to the same person depending on how familiar you are with them.
    Sure, different people will call one person different names, but the same person will generally stick to one.

    Someone might well be referred to by their name and title to clarify that the two apply to one person, but rotating around a set of monikers to avoid repeating one, when it's the same person all the time is silly, and doing that for four or more people at once is confusing and bad writing IMO.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  20. - Top - End - #1010
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    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    Eh. Pact was better.
    That is legitimately the first time I've heard someone put Pact above any of his other works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    That is legitimately the first time I've heard someone put Pact above any of his other works.
    I personally like Pact over Twig, though I still think Worm is the best work.

    To me, Pact feels like a more coherent world than either of the others. We know the fundamental systems Pact runs on, in a way that's nowhere near as true for Twig or Worm, even if those systems are deliberately vague (in fact, the vagueness itself fits the system). And that gives a lot more "oomph" to certain reveals. Everything is interwoven as setup, in a way that reinforces the core themes of the story

    It never manages to hit the emotional highs the others do - there's no
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    New Delhi
    , there's much less character growth due to the abbreviated timescale, and there's much less chance to explorer the world (for the same reason), but the "mechanics" of the world are stronger and more strongly tied into the story than the other two.

  22. - Top - End - #1012
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    That is legitimately the first time I've heard someone put Pact above any of his other works.
    I like Pact as well and would rank it on par with Worm. While Worm hast a good start and great midgame, getting weaker towards the end, Pact in my opinion starts slow but really picks up in the second half. I do especially like the world building and magic system. Twig did not manage to hold my attention.


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  23. - Top - End - #1013
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Spoiler: Chapter 80
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    So what is Malica's endgame here? She seems to be lashing out to do as much damage as possible without having a way to actually bring about a lasting peace.
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  24. - Top - End - #1014
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
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    So what is Malica's endgame here? She seems to be lashing out to do as much damage as possible without having a way to actually bring about a lasting peace.
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    Endgame? She doesn't have one. She doesn't believe that she can win and never did and said so herself. Her goal is to knock over the game board to force her opponents to weaken themselves until they can't bring war to her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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  25. - Top - End - #1015
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    It is kinda hard figuring out what Malicia is up to.
    But all the same, if she manages to create an entire wight fleet? Ouch!
    Those things were mean when merely made out of unarmed civilians.
    Now she is instead likely to get a lesser number of armed soldiers. Whom i bet can still sail.

    Malicia can still easily just be aiming at inflicting just enough damage to the Grand Alliance,
    to ensure that the following war with the Dead King ends in a massive stalemate.
    Then there will indeed not be enough left to go fight the Wasteland.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  26. - Top - End - #1016
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    It is kinda hard figuring out what Malicia is up to.
    But all the same, if she manages to create an entire wight fleet? Ouch!
    Those things were mean when merely made out of unarmed civilians.
    Now she is instead likely to get a lesser number of armed soldiers. Whom i bet can still sail.

    Malicia can still easily just be aiming at inflicting just enough damage to the Grand Alliance,
    to ensure that the following war with the Dead King ends in a massive stalemate.
    Then there will indeed not be enough left to go fight the Wasteland.
    I don't think the zombies retain any skills after being reborn. I think that would've come up the last time we saw them.


    I suppose, but at the same time she could very well put herself in a spot where the Grand Alliance targets her first so they can actually focus on the Dead King.
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  27. - Top - End - #1017
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
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    So what is Malica's endgame here? She seems to be lashing out to do as much damage as possible without having a way to actually bring about a lasting peace.
    Spoiler: Chapter 80
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    I'm worried that Cat just got played. Kairos didn't actually say that Still Waters was being used. He implied it, yes, but that isn't quite a lie.

  28. - Top - End - #1018
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Sacrosanct excrement... That was a week ender and no mistake!
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    Got an awful lot to talk about on this one.

    First, the game itself - Cat points out that it was a ploy on Kairos's side to show her Nessie's nature. He's basically a demi-god version of Juniper, in that he will only ever make the best decision in a given situation. The thought that he would consider an path that doesn't lead to his own optimal outcome would never occur to him. This reveals a great deal of his nature - not only does it make him more predictable if you know what he considers optimal, you can then look back at his decisions thus far and figure that out. Out-maneuvering perfection is difficult, but Cat has done it before.

    The more interesting bits are what it tells us of the other players.

    Cat is nothing we didn't already know, but it was spelled out nice and in simple terms. She's the underdog (minimum starting stones) and will start any conflict indulging petty amusements (taking pleasure in ganging up on Kairos). When things begin to heat up, however, she tends to swoop in and protect the underdog and try to twist their crisis to her advantage (her pledge offer to Kairos). She considers even other enemies as vital distractions muddying a direct encounter she's not equipped to handle alone (Nessie by default had more stones than she did). As Tariq frequently points out, Cat is at her strongest in chaotic circumstances, even when she's nominally the weaker party.

    And then there's Kairos. The game seems to be an apt metaphor for his life: he was never going to win, and he's well aware of that. Heck, he even set it up himself. By antagonizing the infamously petty Cat, he set up a dynamic where she would happily screw him over and Nessie would naturally take advantage of this as a direct path to victory. There was absolutely no way Kairos could win and the Tyrant couldn't care less. The instant it became clear the victory was never going to be his, the game stopped being about the game and instead about the players and drawing out their true natures. He's just enjoying the theater as the ship sinks around him. Yet even as he is conspired against, he's not the victim - he actively refuses the weaponized charity of Cat to keep him in the game, instead looking forward to nuking his own last stone himself because Kairos Theodosian will lose on no terms but his own, even when he's fated to lose.

    Outside of that, the three secrets of the Tyrant at the end of the chapter are nicely ominous. First, that Angels can't be seen by anyone unless they wish to be seen (he explicitly points out the Augur, Nessie, the Bard, and Cat, however, subtly leaving himself off the list). Second, that someone Cat has a treaty with is about to betray her. Third, that the Twilight Way can lead to more places than just creation.

    The first one suggests three options to me. First, and most obvious, is that Cat's assumption that what Cordelia's dredging up is an Angel corpse. How could the Augur point Cordelia to an Angel corpse if she's unable to see it? Either that isn't an Angel, it isn't a corpse, or this is being done with Angelic support. Second, the Choirs are playing a far heavier hand in this conflict than anyone other than the Tyrant realizes. Or, third, a Hero (Tariq, Hanno, or a third player with angelic ties) has observing everything she does and her blindness to that observation is going to bite her.

    The second doesn't say much, since Cat has treaties with pretty much everyone. This includes Kairos, who would be a default assumption for potential betrayal, but also includes Cordelia, Nessie, Tariq, the dwarves, and the Blood. Nessie and Kairos are too obvious to be worth the warning. Cordy and Tariq could work, especially given the Angel secret, but my money is on the dwarves - Cat's faith in them is too unquestioned given what we know of dwarven culture in this setting. If Nessie wants to cut Cat off at the knees, the dwarves are probably his best avenue. And, no, that was not originally intended to be a short joke.

    The third secret is either a blessing or a curse, and I can't tell which. In the fight with Nessie, it could be a complication and an utter ruination of Cat's plans. If the Twilight Ways connect to the Serenity, Nessie will now forever have a back door out of his home, meaning that the drow cannot meaningfully serve as the seal on him. Which means that this war cannot end short of Nessie's utter destruction, but at the same time it conveniently grants Cat an avenue right to his undying heart as well. Perhaps worse than this, however, is the fact that this may well make it an open highway for whatever Angels, devils, and Daemons might like to step into Creation without an express invitation. Can you just imagine what this setting would be like if you didn't need something like the Akua to summon something like the Daemon they fought in Marchford? Or even any mortal being aware of it at all? And Angels aren't a better option, as we've seen. The only Choir we've seen with any consideration for mercy is... well... Mercy and they are the ones that outright condoned the total obliteration of an innocent town in order to capture the Black Knight.

    Well, all said, I enjoyed this one a lot.
    Last edited by Calemyr; 2019-09-27 at 10:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
    It appears someone will have to saddle my goat, for we now must ride out in glorious battle.

  29. - Top - End - #1019
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    I'm worried that Cat just got played. Kairos didn't actually say that Still Waters was being used. He implied it, yes, but that isn't quite a lie.
    Well.. i dont think its somewhere he would get much out of lying?
    Its something thats quite easy to confirm swiftly. And if its not the case that Still Waters are in play, then any decision based on that,
    are likely swiftly reversed.

    and they are the ones that outright condoned the total obliteration of an innocent town in order to capture the Black Knight.
    I dont think its entirely correct to call it condoned. More like accepted Tariq's judgement on the matter.
    They didnt directly do anything themselves.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  30. - Top - End - #1020
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    Sacrosanct excrement... That was a week ender and no mistake!
    Spoiler: Chapter 81
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    Got an awful lot to talk about on this one.

    Outside of that, the three secrets of the Tyrant at the end of the chapter are nicely ominous. First, that Angels can't be seen by anyone unless they wish to be seen (he explicitly points out the Augur, Nessie, the Bard, and Cat, however, subtly leaving himself off the list).
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    I disagree about that bit of that post. I read that sentence as saying that the Augur can't see Angels (unless the Angels want the Augur to see them), Nessie, The Bard or Cat.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

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