The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #91
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Is there an ebook download of this anywhere?
    So you'll insert the horse into the Large Hadron Collider next?
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Yes, though the author does not support them.

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Crap now I am caught up. The great binge is over :/

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by oudeis View Post
    This falls just on the wrong side of the line between 'look how smart this character is' and 'look how smart I am for coming up with this character and because it is my avatar' for me.

    Ehmmm, wut?

    I mean sure, Cat is at times very Mary Sueish (interspersed with getting her face kicked in, figuratively and literally^^), but where, if I might ask, do you get your theory from?
    Its not as if anything done by Team Evil is actually advertized as "right", and "correct", which is what "Oh so clever avatars of Authors" usually do.....
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”


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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Masego casually slaughtered two people. It could be argued they were enemies.

    The Pilgrim casually slaughtered hundreds of innocents.

    Both are evil. The only difference is the Pilgrim wrings his hands over it after.
    It could also be argued they were very minor pawns in a large game, that at the current time were not certain would lead to war.
    They were mainly killed because they were annoying.

    And no, you are very, very wrong on the Pilgrim. He does not do anything casually.
    He does not kill a city "just because". He kills it because its infected with an extremely lethal disease.
    It was the kill a town to save a country dilemma.

    Yes. Because killing two people who are your enemies, and a third in self defense who is also an enemy is somehow worse than, for example, the Ashuran bureaucracy and Caste System that keeps people enslaved in thankless jobs or homeless just because their ancestors were jerks.

    Is worse than Procer's tendency to attempt to kill people and steal their lands that's been going on so long that the hatred for them is so intense that it took a literal stable hellgate to get everyone to go 'Ok, maybe the imperialistic jerks have a point.'?

    Is it worse than the Grey Pilgrim's casual sacrifice of an entire town to get to his enemy?

    Is it worse than Williams plot to literally enslave the entire population of Liesse?
    Well.. since about all those statements are incorrect in some fashion..
    Then Yes.
    next?

    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  6. - Top - End - #96
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayDeath View Post
    While that is not one of the more awesome parts, t leads to some, so I dont quite get how you are tethering on giving up?

    I mean yeah, spelling and grammar are oftentimes all over the place, but Setting, Plot and Cool Factor more than make up for this. Trust me. ;)
    I just can't believe in the lead,
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    She's getting into life or death duels, and the snarky internal and external monologue doesn't waver by a hair.


    She feels like a 21st century teen playing a videogame, not an inhabitant of the world.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    I just can't believe in the lead,
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    She's getting into life or death duels, and the snarky internal and external monologue doesn't waver by a hair.


    She feels like a 21st century teen playing a videogame, not an inhabitant of the world.
    It is definitely a meta story. There is very little pretension to medievalism, the characters all think and act like post-modernists.

    I think the series is by and for people who are steeped in fantasy and rpgs, but it does a more than decent job of deconstructing concepts like nationalism and fate.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Spoiler: Spoiler level - current
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    It could also be argued they were very minor pawns in a large game, that at the current time were not certain would lead to war.
    They were mainly killed because they were annoying.

    And no, you are very, very wrong on the Pilgrim. He does not do anything casually.
    He does not kill a city "just because". He kills it because its infected with an extremely lethal disease.
    It was the kill a town to save a country dilemma.

    Spoiler
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    An extremely lethal disease he infected them with in the first place!

    I have no idea what point you were trying to make here.

  9. - Top - End - #99
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    I just can't believe in the lead,
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    She's getting into life or death duels, and the snarky internal and external monologue doesn't waver by a hair.


    She feels like a 21st century teen playing a videogame, not an inhabitant of the world.
    That doesn't bother me so much because of how the setting has tropes woven into its actual laws of physics - she acts that way because she's a main character Named, snarky dialogue and wisecracking oneliners are mandated for her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Spoiler: Spoiler level - current
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    It could also be argued they were very minor pawns in a large game, that at the current time were not certain would lead to war.
    They were mainly killed because they were annoying.

    And no, you are very, very wrong on the Pilgrim. He does not do anything casually.
    He does not kill a city "just because". He kills it because its infected with an extremely lethal disease.
    It was the kill a town to save a country dilemma.



    Well.. since about all those statements are incorrect in some fashion..
    Then Yes.
    next?

    Spoiler
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    As stated, HE INFECTED THE TOWN WITH THE DISEASE. And quite frankly, it didn't even save the country as it only stopped the portion of the legions with the Black Knight. The Scribe, who as we all know is far more dangerous, is still out there with over half a legion. Mind you, there was literally no purpose to infecting the town with the disease. The Sword Saint could have stopped them just fine. But no. Disease away.

    Also, what's incorrect about all those examples?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

    Torumekian knight Avatar by Licoot.

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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    That doesn't bother me so much because of how the setting has tropes woven into its actual laws of physics - she acts that way because she's a main character Named, snarky dialogue and wisecracking oneliners are mandated for her.
    Spoilering below, though it's a spoiler for "magic system" workings (aka "Name Lore") and not plot; it is therefore safe to read for those not far into the story that don't mind spoilers of that particular nature.

    Spoiler
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    More to the point, her having a Name in some ways MAKES her act that way. Being Named amplifies all of your traits to exaggerated levels; the good and the bad. Cat was always a smart aleck and her being Named makes her nearly pathologically incapable of not mouthing off, even when she's consciously aware of it being a bad idea at the time.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    So i discovered there are bonus chapters you can only find by looking at the bonus chapter section at the bottom of the webpage.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    So i discovered there are bonus chapters you can only find by looking at the bonus chapter section at the bottom of the webpage.
    Or by reading everything in order. I'm guessing they don't appear if you're navigating chapter by chapter via the ToC or something weird?

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Spoiler: Up to Interlude: Calamities III
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    One thing is very clear in this series - "Good" very much isn't, despite what it might claim to be. They are, in fact, worse even that the same plot point that's been Redcloak's arc in OotS.

    Bard, I am fairly sure, is not a hero remotely, but a direct servant (well, more like "slave" or "puppet" I suspect) of The Narrative, which is specifically trying to sustain itself as a constant round of bloody wars across the continent.

    Hell, I would not be entirely surprised that the Gnomes are allowed their technological advantage to SPECIFICALLY keep Calernia primative, so that there is no chance of technology improving the standards. After all, happy content people with plenty of food have neither cause to invade their neighbours nor to get excited about some callow youth (or Callow youth...!) ranting about how much better it would be if they changed the flags.

    The gods above and below clearly care absolutely sod all for the lives or blood that is shed so they can have their little moral argument. Which would be fine if half of them were supposed to be, y'know, not actually good-aligned.



    A point in one of the comments this chapter was that out of all of the heroes in the entire series to this point, the only ones that seem to be actually real capital-G Good (not what the angels claim they are) might have been Hedge and Ash Priestess (Bumbling Conjurer maybe, we never saw enough of him to make a determinaion, but, frankly [expletive] Presto, Orco and all the rest of that paradigm.



    Another interesting point, one that occurred to me as I thought of the Aotrs1. All the narratives in play are very human-culture-based - i.e., based around transitory things (death, replacement etc). Black is essentially trying to change those narratives by changing the culture, and apparently he's so dangerous that the Narrative is having to try and directly intervene.

    Co-incidence that the Dead King, who has been around long enough and strong enough to set his own culture seems pretty mcuh impregnable? Could it be that HIS narrative HAS already done that, and replaced itself with its own cultural narrative of permenance that apparently, neither the Gods Above or Below, nor the Narrative itself can break, by sheer dint of "this is not your story, it is MINE?"




    1It is kind of fascinating to wonder what things would be like if this sort of narrative-fuelled events happened in the Aotrs, which after a good couple of thousand years of rule by a single LE master, has a completely different set of myths and cultural values to most human societies - the fundemental shift between "the next generation is the key to the future/mentors die to motivate student (et al)" to "no-one ever stops growing and learning and advancement is a continuous curve" is enormous on its own...
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2018-10-27 at 06:55 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Or by reading everything in order. I'm guessing they don't appear if you're navigating chapter by chapter via the ToC or something weird?
    Some don't seem to show in the table of contents. Archer meeting Ranger for instance.

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Spoiler: Up to Interlude: Calamities III
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    One thing is very clear in this series - "Good" very much isn't, despite what it might claim to be. They are, in fact, worse even that the same plot point that's been Redcloak's arc in OotS.

    The gods above and below clearly care absolutely sod all for the lives or blood that is shed so they can have their little moral argument. Which would be fine if half of them were supposed to be, y'know, not actually good-aligned.
    Spoiler: Good v. Evil
    Show

    The whole Good vs. Evil conflict in PGtE is probably better framed, names aside, as Law vs. Chaos. The 'Gods Above' favor heavy-handed, direct intervention and guidance in the lives of mortals, always for their benefit of course. The 'Gods Below' prefer being hands-off and letting mortals shake things out for themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Spoiler: Good v. Evil
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    The whole Good vs. Evil conflict in PGtE is probably better framed, names aside, as Law vs. Chaos. The 'Gods Above' favor heavy-handed, direct intervention and guidance in the lives of mortals, always for their benefit of course. The 'Gods Below' prefer being hands-off and letting mortals shake things out for themselves.
    Spoiler: Good v. Evil
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    I'm not sure it is even that (I mean, Black and Cat are basically more or less the poster-children from Lawful Evil1 and the "good" side hates them for not being THEIR brand of "Lawful") or even "determinism verses free will;" it seems more like "control freaks" verses "impluse control issues" both coming from the Evil pool - or perhaps just "two crowds of asshats."

    Though I am reminded, to be honest, of the Volans and Shadows from Babylon 5 and so help me Lichemaster if this is where those frackers went after Sheridan kicked them out...



    1Both the Calamities and the Woes would fit right into the Aotrs near-perfectly... (Okay, maybe not Archer, Ranger and Thief so much, but the rest...)

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Spoiler: Good v. Evil
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    The whole Good vs. Evil conflict in PGtE is probably better framed, names aside, as Law vs. Chaos. The 'Gods Above' favor heavy-handed, direct intervention and guidance in the lives of mortals, always for their benefit of course. The 'Gods Below' prefer being hands-off and letting mortals shake things out for themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Spoiler: Good v. Evil
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    I'm not sure it is even that (I mean, Black and Cat are basically more or less the poster-children from Lawful Evil1 and the "good" side hates them for not being THEIR brand of "Lawful") or even "determinism verses free will;" it seems more like "control freaks" verses "impluse control issues" both coming from the Evil pool - or perhaps just "two crowds of asshats."
    Spoiler: More Good vs. Evil
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    Glyphstone does have a point with the Order/Good and Chaos/Evil associations. Black and Cat are indeed the poster children of LE, but they and Malicia are also really the only examples of LE Named, with everyone else being Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil, or Stupid Evil. Conversely, Thief and Archer started off as definite heroes but shifted to Cat's side with a tentative alliance when they saw her as the lesser of multiple evils, and both are two facets of the Robin Hood unlawful-with-good-intentions CG archetype. Not coincidentally, both LE and CG are traditionally the alignments most likely to ally with the enemy, the former to further their own plans and the latter as allies of convenience to achieve a greater good.

    So the gods set the Narrative up as basically LG vs. CE, with those trying to change the Narrative (or at least not follow their Roles to the letter) skewing LE and CG. Which makes sense with their goals, because as soon as you have more than one axis and different kinds of Good and Evil at odds with one another, you get nuance and philosophical differences and other things that are anathema to storytale logic, all the better for having a chance of undermining the Narrative and breaking the cycle.
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  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Yes, though the author does not support them.
    Ok, where? I'd like to download the first book (easier to read than on the computer), but I can't find it.
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  20. - Top - End - #110
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    An extremely lethal disease he infected them with in the first place!

    I have no idea what point you were trying to make here.
    Mainly that if your going to leave out important bits, then so will i.

    As stated, HE INFECTED THE TOWN WITH THE DISEASE. And quite frankly, it didn't even save the country as it only stopped the portion of the legions with the Black Knight. The Scribe, who as we all know is far more dangerous, is still out there with over half a legion. Mind you, there was literally no purpose to infecting the town with the disease. The Sword Saint could have stopped them just fine. But no. Disease away.

    Also, what's incorrect about all those examples?
    For a large part they were comparing aples to cheese. The culture of a entire nation at its worst against the actions of a single family at a random part.

    And actually, he more created that specific disease on the spot.
    Because it might, or might not have saved a sizeable chunk of the country. Black was rampaging around with an army.
    There were noone around that could catch it since he had a aspect that speeds his army up. And the Dead King was stirring.
    So they could really, really not afford any distractions.

    And i dont think the Sword Saint can defeat an army on her own. We have not really seen any hero take the role of army killed.
    Besides that she is getting old, and has endurance issues.

    A point in one of the comments this chapter was that out of all of the heroes in the entire series to this point, the only ones that seem to be actually real capital-G Good (not what the angels claim they are) might have been Hedge and Ash Priestess (Bumbling Conjurer maybe, we never saw enough of him to make a determinaion, but, frankly [expletive] Presto, Orco and all the rest of that paradigm.
    I would also make a point in favor of Thief at least being good, even if not deserving the capital letter.
    Though im surprised at what disqualify White Knight.

    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by keybounce View Post
    Ok, where? I'd like to download the first book (easier to read than on the computer), but I can't find it.
    Given the author does not support the release of unauthorized ebooks, as they hurt his chances of securing a real publishing deal down the line, I'm going to assume that this does or should fall under the same clause in the forum rules against linking to pirate sites, since all ebooks are essentially pirated copies of the serial.

    Your phone or Kindle also has a web browser; you do not need to read at a desk.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2018-10-28 at 12:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
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    Mainly that if your going to leave out important bits, then so will i.



    For a large part they were comparing aples to cheese. The culture of a entire nation at its worst against the actions of a single family at a random part.

    And actually, he more created that specific disease on the spot.
    Because it might, or might not have saved a sizeable chunk of the country. Black was rampaging around with an army.
    There were noone around that could catch it since he had a aspect that speeds his army up. And the Dead King was stirring.
    So they could really, really not afford any distractions.

    And i dont think the Sword Saint can defeat an army on her own. We have not really seen any hero take the role of army killed.
    Besides that she is getting old, and has endurance issues.



    I would also make a point in favor of Thief at least being good, even if not deserving the capital letter.
    Though im surprised at what disqualify White Knight.

    Spoiler
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    ... Except there's still an army. And it has an Angry Scribe at it's head. You remember, the Scribe who seemed to simply appear an entire army out of nowhere that one time? The Scribe whom if you annoy you simply dissapear as a statistic?

    Also, the Sword Saint EXPLICITLY was beating armies on her own just a couple of years ago during the Proceran Civil War. In fact, it's explicitly stated that Hero's can beat armies on their own, just like Villains can. Mind you, she doesn't NEED to beat them by herself, because hey. There's four other heroes there. But yeah. They also don't need to beat the army. They just need to kill Black.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    I suddenly wonder if the reason all the typos haven't been fixed (because they don't appear to have been, not for lack of people pointing them out, even the really bad ones i that one chapter where the oepnign speech marks are absent) is because the author believes they need to have it done by a professional editor from the theothetical publisher, solely to avoid any legal troubles with people claiming they did it in the comments and wanting payment. I could see that being a bit of a quagmire, potentially, given how crappy big companies often are about this sort of thing.

    Though if they did publish it, I'd snap their hands off...

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by keybounce View Post
    Ok, where? I'd like to download the first book (easier to read than on the computer), but I can't find it.
    I remember bloxp working but maybe I had to adjust the settings, not sure.

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Spoiler: book 2 chapter 17
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    We are ever grateful to the Exiled Prince for his beautiful demonstration.

    May it serve as a reminder why we should always wear our bloody helmets.
    Seriously, the friggin idiot was asking for this.
    That his own armor caused the attack to hit is only the icing on the cake.

    Wearing an arrow redirecting suit of armour and then foregoing part of that protection.
    When dealing with villains.
    Challenging their leader to single combat.

    Seriously, what was the man thinking?
    I mean, even if you need the heroic look for the challenge put the friggin bucket on your empty noggin afterwards.

    Unless your life-goal is to star in „Funny Deaths Callow Edition” of course.
    If that was the plan he did everything right.

    So I once more wish to thank the prince for his grand sacrifice.
    It served to entertain err... educate us all.
    May he be never forgotten.
    For future generations deserve a good laugh.
    Last edited by Kantaki; 2018-10-28 at 05:32 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Spoiler: Helmets
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    Well, he's just playing into the rules of the universe isn't he? A hero challenging a villain in shining armor with his helmet off is practically a universal heroic trope. Shooting him should have never worked.

    It's not like he can be expected to know that Catherine is an unsufferable Mary Sue and the way his universe works has arbitrarily changed from "heroic tropes vs villainous ones" to "lol Good people so dumb!11!" *holds up spork*
    Last edited by Anteros; 2018-10-28 at 06:30 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #117
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
    The Glyphstone's Avatar

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Spoiler: 2-17
    Show

    Though let's not forget that he issued the challenge specifically because his close ally and fellow Hero, the Wandering Bard, advised that this was the best way to kill Foundling. Almost like she knew what the end result would be ahead of time, hm?
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Spoiler: Helmets
    Show
    Well, he's just playing into the rules of the universe isn't he? A hero challenging a villain in shining armor with his helmet off is practically a universal heroic trope. Shooting him should have never worked.

    It's not like he can be expected to know that Catherine is an unsufferable Mary Sue and the way his universe works has arbitrarily changed from "heroic tropes vs villainous ones" to "lol Good people so dumb!11!" *holds up spork*
    Spoiler: book 2, chapter 17
    Show
    Personally, I DESPISE that whole "hero challenges villain to a duel" nonsense with the white hot fire of a thousand suns - I really, really, REALLY do. It is incomparably stupid, idiotic and incompentant (and I could go about it for hours, but I'd rather be reading more of the webserial, so I won't).

    So I laughed out loud for several minutes at the moron getting EXACTLY what he royally deserved.

    Hell, I would have done EXACTLY the same.

    (And have done, actually, though I prefer using a SK-series Snake anti-tank missile launcher instead of an arrow myself, just to make that point VERY clear. Come to that, in the Aotrs, rather than a refusal making the force believe their commander is a coward, a commander that actually ACCEPTED such a challenge would be considered a blithering idiot incompetant who would like as not be shot at the same time as the hero when they started their idiot duel.)
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2018-10-28 at 08:37 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Spoiler: Helmets
    Show
    Well, he's just playing into the rules of the universe isn't he? A hero challenging a villain in shining armor with his helmet off is practically a universal heroic trope. Shooting him should have never worked.

    It's not like he can be expected to know that Catherine is an unsufferable Mary Sue and the way his universe works has arbitrarily changed from "heroic tropes vs villainous ones" to "lol Good people so dumb!11!" *holds up spork*
    Spoiler
    Show
    The tropes are not a perfect protection from common sense failures. Especially when you fail to properly note your role in a story. The Prince is a bit character, and thus not afforded the full benefits of herodom.

    Not that it matters; you're clearly hate-reading this for some reason.

  30. - Top - End - #120
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Your phone or Kindle also has a web browser; you do not need to read at a desk.
    My phone is a flip phone.
    My kindle is a keyboard; my other is a paperwhite. Web browser? The keyboard's browser is basically worthless, and the paperwhite's ... well, they call it "experimental" for a reason :-).
    So you'll insert the horse into the Large Hadron Collider next?
    GENERATION ω+1: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. Remember, ω + 1 comes after ω.

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