The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Spoiler: W.B. Spoiler
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    Hmm.. yeah i know what your talking about. Im just not certain its what triggered her.
    I mean from a story perspective the Tyrant seems utterly harmless. Going full on ham mode as a villain.
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    The Heirarch and the Tyrant are two different people, remember. The Tyrant is the ham villain. The Hierarch is the crazy diplomat from Communist Democracy who hates himself for being special.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    The ham mode villains are supported by the narrative, which is why Akua as a lone name took 5+ named to put down. The Tyrant isn't just a named, he is just as aware of the narrative structure as Black and Malicia but willing to use it to further his own ends.
    Yeah i know that mode is supported. Its why the Tyrant could fight off a team of heroes.
    Though to whose ends do you think Black and Malicia have been playing the Narative structure?
    So far that just makes him the CE version of Black.

    The Heirarch and the Tyrant are two different people, remember. The Tyrant is the ham villain. The Hierarch is the crazy diplomat from Communist Democracy who hates himself for being special.
    Yeah i know who he is. He is the one who is truely mad. And that does make me think he is rather harmless.
    He dont have any agenda of his own, or for that matter any passion. He isnt a player, he is a piece on the board.
    And so i dont think the Bard would go into full alarm mode at someone who could be handled simply by having a few normal humans stuff him into a sack and carry him off by boat.

    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Spoiler: W.B.
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    Yeah i know that mode is supported. Its why the Tyrant could fight off a team of heroes.
    Though to whose ends do you think Black and Malicia have been playing the Narative structure?
    So far that just makes him the CE version of Black.



    Yeah i know who he is. He is the one who is truely mad. And that does make me think he is rather harmless.
    He dont have any agenda of his own, or for that matter any passion. He isnt a player, he is a piece on the board.
    And so i dont think the Bard would go into full alarm mode at someone who could be handled simply by having a few normal humans stuff him into a sack and carry him off by boat.

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    So that means it couldn't be who he Is, it had to be something he Said. Remember that WB doesn't consciously control her Wandering ability, it's a reflexive protection against harm. So, for some reason, the Story recognized the Heirarch declaring the Bard (and by extension, the Story) an Enemy of the People and guilty of Treason, as being a genuine threat. The question is, why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Spoiler: W.B.
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    Yeah i know that mode is supported. Its why the Tyrant could fight off a team of heroes.
    Though to whose ends do you think Black and Malicia have been playing the Narative structure?
    So far that just makes him the CE version of Black.



    Yeah i know who he is. He is the one who is truely mad. And that does make me think he is rather harmless.
    He dont have any agenda of his own, or for that matter any passion. He isnt a player, he is a piece on the board.
    And so i dont think the Bard would go into full alarm mode at someone who could be handled simply by having a few normal humans stuff him into a sack and carry him off by boat.

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    They aren't exploiting it, they are subverting it. Black even admits that he is weak for a black knight because they are struggling against the narrative.

    The Tyrant plays the part full throttle, but is clearly going to deviate from it at a shocking moment. Akua was given immense power by playing into her part, and would have been a continent wide threat if not immediately put down. The Tyrant strikes me as being the smarter individual, he has gotten attention turned to other villains first and is free to play the board.

    I think the point of the Hierarch is that by refusing to make choices he is free of the narrative. This lets the Tyrant undermine it by proxy while maintaining his full powers. I expect the plot twist there to be a deep one.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    So that means it couldn't be who he Is, it had to be something he Said. Remember that WB doesn't consciously control her Wandering ability, it's a reflexive protection against harm. So, for some reason, the Story recognized the Heirarch declaring the Bard (and by extension, the Story) an Enemy of the People and guilty of Treason, as being a genuine threat. The question is, why?
    Well.. thats still only if the initial assumption, that it is the Hierach that has send the Bard into Red Alert level panic.
    And now it could of course be possible that it is the Tyrants little pet who are responsible.
    But it could also be whatever else had been set in motion around that time, or until her talk with the Dead King.
    That the Bards defence triggered is less interesting i think. The Hierarch is a rather obscure named. It can easily be any sort of esoteric mental/reality attack his declaration unleashed.

    They aren't exploiting it, they are subverting it. Black even admits that he is weak for a black knight because they are struggling against the narrative.

    The Tyrant plays the part full throttle, but is clearly going to deviate from it at a shocking moment. Akua was given immense power by playing into her part, and would have been a continent wide threat if not immediately put down. The Tyrant strikes me as being the smarter individual, he has gotten attention turned to other villains first and is free to play the board.

    I think the point of the Hierarch is that by refusing to make choices he is free of the narrative. This lets the Tyrant undermine it by proxy while maintaining his full powers. I expect the plot twist there to be a deep one.
    Well.. exploiting.. subverting.. thats rather subjective terms its a waste of time to debate.
    But yes. It has already been stated that the Tyrant goes full Ham, and have gotten a staggering amount of power from it.
    So far he plays it by the book. And we have not yet been given any clear signs of him actually wanting to break the narrative.

    That the Hierarch gets freedom by not making choices is something i disagree with. If anything that blocks him from influencing things.
    The Narrative should have experience dealing with stuff like that. If something does not make choices then its scenery or a NPC.


    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Spoiler: W.B.
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    I think that's it, really. By their definition and nature, Named are the agents by which the Story is told. But Alexadres or whatever his name is refuses to cooperate. He's taking it one step further than even the Evil protagonists in consciously and stubbornly refusing to fulfill his Role despite everything the story does to convince him otherwise. Whatever place the Heirarch is supposed to play in the cycle of fate, apparently uniting the Free Cities under one banner, isn't happening until he starts playing ball. When the Bard tries to sway him into doing his job, he rejects her so completely and thoroughly that she 'dies'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Arse.

    I have now reached the leading edge of the story.

    I suppose in many ways, this is probably as well, as I now can catch up on all the other fanfictions and TV shows and such I have largely ignored as I have read this, and perhaps now will be less inclined to feel that I’m only playing an hour or two of my games to space out time before supper to read more Guide…

    But, the major downside is now “must wait for more guide.”

    Book Three has been the weakest of the four thus far, I think (the Oder of the Pheoni as it were), and even then only in that is was “merely” very good as opposed to truely excellent; I spent much of books one and two laughing my ass off at every turn. It is almost unheard of for me to read about characters I can actually RELATE to for once. Even my favourite villains of all time (Grand Admiral Thrawn and Madara Uchiha) are more entities I admire or aspire too.

    (Cat, meanwhile, is standing closer behind Jubilee again, That Look on her face and Jubes is starting to feel maybe a bit nervous...)



    I am hoping that by the end of the series Cat will have gotten so many powers, she'll be able to basically go punch out the Gods - especially the Above ones, since they have reached Shi'Ar levels of punchability. Lichemaster, the sheer unbridled arrogance, self-delusion and hypocracy...



    (And if it doesn't end well for them all in the end, I'mma scour the multiverse until I find an appropriate reality offer at least Cat, Amaedus and Harkam a job, post-humous or otherwise...!)

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Is there a way to download the series in PDF or in .mobi files? I would like to have an offline version of the books.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Not by any legal means, no. Uncertain why the author hasn't made one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Not by any legal means, no. Uncertain why the author hasn't made one.
    As I understand it, because they want to publish it eventually, and for some reason (probably the messy world of publishing) it being available in any form but the one it is would apparently be detrimental to that.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Arse.

    I have now reached the leading edge of the story.

    I suppose in many ways, this is probably as well, as I now can catch up on all the other fanfictions and TV shows and such I have largely ignored as I have read this, and perhaps now will be less inclined to feel that I’m only playing an hour or two of my games to space out time before supper to read more Guide…

    But, the major downside is now “must wait for more guide.”

    Book Three has been the weakest of the four thus far, I think (the Oder of the Pheoni as it were), and even then only in that is was “merely” very good as opposed to truely excellent; I spent much of books one and two laughing my ass off at every turn. It is almost unheard of for me to read about characters I can actually RELATE to for once. Even my favourite villains of all time (Grand Admiral Thrawn and Madara Uchiha) are more entities I admire or aspire too.

    (Cat, meanwhile, is standing closer behind Jubilee again, That Look on her face and Jubes is starting to feel maybe a bit nervous...)



    I am hoping that by the end of the series Cat will have gotten so many powers, she'll be able to basically go punch out the Gods - especially the Above ones, since they have reached Shi'Ar levels of punchability. Lichemaster, the sheer unbridled arrogance, self-delusion and hypocracy...



    (And if it doesn't end well for them all in the end, I'mma scour the multiverse until I find an appropriate reality offer at least Cat, Amaedus and Harkam a job, post-humous or otherwise...!)
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    Hakram especially is an amazing character. His arc with Thief is one of my favorite bits of writing in the series, I'm hoping for more chapters from his perspective.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Spoiler: Up to Interlude: Inheritance
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    And the Gods Above just reached the top of my list, along with Shi'Ar, Gladiator, Vampires and Nagato.

    The sheer hypocracy and arrogance of them stuns me. They are quite willing to actually be the ones to escalate to direct divine intervention first (the thing the bad guys ALWAYS do...), just so they can sustain their endless cycle of killing untold number of people to prove they have the biggest reproductive philisophical organ. While having the sheer gall to claim they are the "good" guys. That offends me on just about ever single level.

    I would even settle for some actual good gods to come along, and give them a good right old judgement and smite them into bloody fragments.

    Oh my Lichemaster.



    And that is SO going to backfire. If Zeze can tell 'em to shut-up now, what's he gonna do a bit down the line?

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    I'm pretty pleased with the divine intervention myself. Masego was about to be removed from play, which would dramatically undermine Cat's position against the Tower. Instead he lives, the last of the calamities is taken out, and Praes is going to be invaded by sea. The escalation of the war is Callow's best hope at this point, being able to act as a lever and playing the sides off against each other. That is how most minor powers work their way up to major powers.

    Too bad the Crusade declared against Cat as an Archenemy, it makes things more difficult.

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    And before a fuse is blown i think it should be pointed out, team evil already had 2 of the likely most powerful active villains on one side of that conflict.
    One of them a person powerful enough to.. what did he do.. bring a layer of hell up to overlap with the ocean?

    And at the same time we dont know the rules for miracles. It can easily be the case that the fleet were loaded with priests of light.


    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Spoiler: Last chapter
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    And before a fuse is blown i think it should be pointed out, team evil already had 2 of the likely most powerful active villains on one side of that conflict.
    One of them a person powerful enough to.. what did he do.. bring a layer of hell up to overlap with the ocean?

    And at the same time we dont know the rules for miracles. It can easily be the case that the fleet were loaded with priests of light.


    Spoiler
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    Yup, one of Warlock's Aspect tricks - Imbricate means overlap. Has similar results to Catherine and Masego's 'Absolute Positioning' trick for dropping select parts of Arcadia on people's heads, although apparently doable on a broader scale.

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Spoiler: Last chapter
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    And before a fuse is blown i think it should be pointed out, team evil already had 2 of the likely most powerful active villains on one side of that conflict.
    One of them a person powerful enough to.. what did he do.. bring a layer of hell up to overlap with the ocean?

    And at the same time we dont know the rules for miracles. It can easily be the case that the fleet were loaded with priests of light.


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    I mean, the requirements for literal divine intervention don't seem to be particularly high. We had William a handsbreadth away from summoning one of the Hashmallim in the very first book.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

    Torumekian knight Avatar by Licoot.

    Note to self: Never get involved in an ethics thread again...Especially if I'm defending the empire.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
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    I mean, the requirements for literal divine intervention don't seem to be particularly high. We had William a handsbreadth away from summoning one of the Hashmallim in the very first book.
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    Not that easy, I suspect - William had the benefit of having a physical piece of an angel to use as the ritual key, performed in a place that was noted several times as being magically potent, required seven days and nights of casting prayer, and still would have required his life as a sacrifice. A caster-focused hero might have been able to do it faster, perhaps, but I suspect it would not have been possible at all without the angel-feather sword as a material focus.

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    “Obviously you can’t kill me now: your enmity is with the Dread Emperor of Praes, and I’ve already abdicated. I am now but a humble shoemaker, and what kind of hero slays a shoemaker?”
    – Dread Emperor Irritant, the Oddly Successful. Later noted to have made surprisingly nice shoes during his three abdications.
    Oh.. this guy cracks me up every single time.

    Spoiler: Previous chapter
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    And that wasnt even direct divine intervention.
    While the Hashmallim is powerful its still not a god
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Spoiler: Book 4 chapter 68
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    *frantically scribbling notes*

    Dammit, there has to be a way to modify Aotrs Gate spells to open in solid objects so we can just steal whole seas, mountains and possibly planets...

    Jubilee, start getting worried again...


  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Starting book three now (heh. seems significant.) and I have to say Anaxares and the Tyrant are some of my favourite characters.
    Something about having nothing to loose makes them really amusing.
    And terrifying in Tyrant's case.

    Ranger being friends with the Dead King was great too.
    And they are friends, no matter how much he denies it.
    I mean if he really didn't want her to visit he could make it far more unappealing.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

    Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
    (Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")



  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    Starting book three now (heh. seems significant.) and I have to say Anaxares and the Tyrant are some of my favourite characters.
    Something about having nothing to loose makes them really amusing.
    And terrifying in Tyrant's case.

    Ranger being friends with the Dead King was great too.
    And they are friends, no matter how much he denies it.
    I mean if he really didn't want her to visit he could make it far more unappealing.
    The only way to make a place unappealing to Ranger would be to have nothing for her to fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    The only way to make a place unappealing to Ranger would be to have nothing for her to fight.
    I find Ranger a little irritating honestly. Having The Predator as a neutral background character who could slaughter all their problems but doesn't give a fig feels very Forgotten Realms to me.

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    The only way to make a place unappealing to Ranger would be to have nothing for her to fight.
    Well, yeah.
    Not throwing his (un)Named at her would already help with keeping his collection.

    On the other hand that might only motivate her to fight through his realm till she finds them.

    On the gripping hand Named aren't immortal and leading her on a wild goose chase through hell might exhaust her enough to do the trick.

    Then again it might not. Occasionally sacrificing a toy or two would be preferable to having some madwoman decimate his corner of the hells.

    And doesn't that sound like a great base for a true and deep friendship?
    Last edited by Kantaki; 2018-11-07 at 02:55 PM.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

    Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
    (Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")



  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Best warcry ever:

    "Yoink!" XD

  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

  26. - Top - End - #206
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    I am not a fan of this shipping. Seems like the purpose is the author trying to establish that Cat is now a Fey in truth, but I don't see the point when we have already been shown that lots of times.

  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    I am not a fan of this shipping. Seems like the purpose is the author trying to establish that Cat is now a Fey in truth, but I don't see the point when we have already been shown that lots of times.
    Spoiler
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    Which Shipping?


    Anyways I'm all caught up, and I have to say that I do think it's fascinating that this story has swapped the traditional roles of Good and Evil gods.

    To explain, in this story it seems that the Good Gods are the ones that think they should rule over everything, and the Evil Gods are the ones who believe mortals should be guided to greater things.

    Which yeah, is the opposite of what you typically see. Normally the Good Gods are all about championing free will and mortal potential while the evil gods are demanding obedience and slaves.

    It probably explains why there haven't been any really 'good' heroes and why the Good Gods all seem to be a bunch of raging ****heads.
    Spoiler: I'm a writer!
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    here[/URL]
    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

    I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP

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    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
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    Which Shipping?


    Anyways I'm all caught up, and I have to say that I do think it's fascinating that this story has swapped the traditional roles of Good and Evil gods.

    To explain, in this story it seems that the Good Gods are the ones that think they should rule over everything, and the Evil Gods are the ones who believe mortals should be guided to greater things.

    Which yeah, is the opposite of what you typically see. Normally the Good Gods are all about championing free will and mortal potential while the evil gods are demanding obedience and slaves.

    It probably explains why there haven't been any really 'good' heroes and why the Good Gods all seem to be a bunch of raging ****heads.
    I don't think that's exactly accurate. Evil is still Evil, it's just that they believe in survival/dominance of the fittest; with no rules except 'the strongest makes the rules', you get something very much like Praes. Good is, at best, the 'smothering protective' sort of Good; they insist on active meddling and control for the mortals' own good, because left to their own devices they'll get into trouble and cause harm to each other. And they're willing to break as many eggs as they need to make that omelette - the Good of the many outweighs the Good of the few, apparently. Which isn't very Good at all, but there you have it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  29. - Top - End - #209
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    I don't think that's exactly accurate. Evil is still Evil, it's just that they believe in survival/dominance of the fittest; with no rules except 'the strongest makes the rules', you get something very much like Praes. Good is, at best, the 'smothering protective' sort of Good; they insist on active meddling and control for the mortals' own good, because left to their own devices they'll get into trouble and cause harm to each other. And they're willing to break as many eggs as they need to make that omelette - the Good of the many outweighs the Good of the few, apparently. Which isn't very Good at all, but there you have it.
    Evil is evil sure. I mean the Gods Below are always pushing people to do the wrong thing. But it's always the persons choice, while the Gods Above seem to be all about taking that choice away. Which isn't good.

    I suppose that might be my biggest problem with the story. Evil is evil, but Good isn't good. We haven't had a single major character who is a good guy.
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  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Evil is evil sure. I mean the Gods Below are always pushing people to do the wrong thing. But it's always the persons choice, while the Gods Above seem to be all about taking that choice away. Which isn't good.

    I suppose that might be my biggest problem with the story. Evil is evil, but Good isn't good. We haven't had a single major character who is a good guy.
    Well no, thats the problem with a story thats focused on team evil. All the major characters are at best neutral.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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