Homebrew alteration to ranger casting balance.

[Dudewithknives]

Long story short:

Playing a revised ranger, who wants to rely more on their spellcasting and does not mind losing other things for it.

1. Play a revised ranger and make thier spellcasting short rest renew, but take out some other parts of the class.

2. Give the warlock the ranger spell list and drop mystic arcanum. Giving them a fighting style at 2 to make up for it.

3. Just say no.

[nickl_2000]

I vote #3 with an addition of "just play a Ranger/Druid multiclass or Ranger/Cleric Multiclass" It can certainly work well.


#1 is a struggle since they get a lot of spells. So refreshing on a short rest seems a little bit broken.
#2 will be a struggle since a warlock requires cantrips to get through the day and a fighting style isn't enough.


If they don't want to multiclass then what about this.
Take the Druid base class make a new subclass, they lose wildshaping abilities.

Level 2 they get Martial weapons, fighting style, favored enemy, and a spell addition list (hunter's mark, zephyr strike, and whatever else makes sense).
Level 6 they get a second attack, favored terrain, and second favored enemy
Level 10 second favored terrain and 3rd favored enemy and dash as a bonus action (fleet of foot)
Level 14 You get Vanish and Hide in Plain site.

Very rough, but it will be a lot easier than trying to rebalance the Ranger's casting ability

[Kadesh]

What's wrong with Ranger Casting?

[Dudewithknives]

I vote #3 with an addition of "just play a Ranger/Druid multiclass or Ranger/Cleric Multiclass" It can certainly work well.


#1 is a struggle since they get a lot of spells. So refreshing on a short rest seems a little bit broken.
#2 will be a struggle since a warlock requires cantrips to get through the day and a fighting style isn't enough.


If they don't want to multiclass then what about this.
Take the Druid base class make a new subclass, they lose wildshaping abilities.

Level 2 they get Martial weapons, fighting style, favored enemy, and a spell addition list (hunter's mark, zephyr strike, and whatever else makes sense).
Level 6 they get a second attack, favored terrain, and second favored enemy
Level 10 second favored terrain and 3rd favored enemy and dash as a bonus action (fleet of foot)
Level 14 You get Vanish and Hide in Plain site.

Very rough, but it will be a lot easier than trying to rebalance the Ranger's casting ability

I agree with most of that except that warlocks need cantrips to get by.
I have seen quite a few pact of the blade who went archer and did not take EB.

[Dudewithknives]

What's wrong with Ranger Casting?

It is very good and all, but he wants to just be able to cast their spells more often.
Essentially he wants to play a ranger as a caster class archer.
More things like Hail of Thorns, conjure barrage and the like and less just mundane archer with some tiny magic backup.

He had the idea of giving up their second attack at 5 and favored enemy to get warlock casting style for their ranger spells, with the mysitic arcanum coming from the druid list.

Not sure if that is balanced or not.

[Spectrulus]

Long story short:

Playing a revised ranger, who wants to rely more on their spellcasting and does not mind losing other things for it...

It sounds counter intuitive, but the Fochlucan Lyrist style Bard might work. Lore probably. It would allow a good selection of druid spells, plus other things they'd want.

[Man_Over_Game]

One thing I allow for Warlocks is the ability to use alternate spellcasting attributes, but it has to be specific to each Patron. You could offer the same.

Great Old One can use Intelligence.

Archfey can use Wisdom.

Undying uses any non-physical attribute of your choice and Constitution, using the lesser of the two.

He'd have to multiclass, but the regenerating spell slots make a great addition to anyone.



For a less homebrew approach, tell him to go Land Druid. He'll get plenty of options that help in combat (like Blur, Mirror Image and Misty Step) and you can regenerate some spell slots per druid level.

[Dudewithknives]

One thing I allow for Warlocks is the ability to use alternate spellcasting attributes, but it has to be specific to each Patron. You could offer the same.

Great Old One can use Intelligence.

Archfey can use Wisdom.

Undying uses any non-physical attribute of your choice and Constitution, using the lesser of the two.

He'd have to multiclass, but the regenerating spell slots make a great addition to anyone.



For a less homebrew approach, tell him to go Land Druid. He'll get plenty of options that help in combat (like Blur, Mirror Image and Misty Step) and you can regenerate some spell slots per druid level.

The issue is that he specifically wants to play a magical archer using the ranger spell list.

Multiclassing will not work by normal rules because he would not be learning any of his new ranger spells after going druid/warlock.

His favorite character back in the day was his arcane archer. Mainily an archer who cast spells to make their shots ever better.
However, in 5e the Arcane Archer does not cast spells at all.
The only way to really cast more spells from the ranger list, is to not even play a ranger. you could play a lore bard and be a better ranger than the ranger.

If there was an archer school for wizards that would be great, but the only ones I have seen is homebrew and I would rather not add completely new stuff, just alter what is in the game already.

[Man_Over_Game]

The issue is that he specifically wants to play a magical archer using the ranger spell list.

Multiclassing will not work by normal rules because he would not be learning any of his new ranger spells after going druid/warlock.

His favorite character back in the day was his arcane archer. Mainily an archer who cast spells to make their shots ever better.
However, in 5e the Arcane Archer does not cast spells at all.
The only way to really cast more spells from the ranger list, is to not even play a ranger. you could play a lore bard and be a better ranger than the ranger.

If there was an archer school for wizards that would be great, but the only ones I have seen is homebrew and I would rather not add completely new stuff, just alter what is in the game already.

Hmm....

How about at 5th level, he loses his second attack but gains the ability to replenish his spell slots on a short rest, akin to a Warlock?

It SOUNDS strong, but most of the Ranger spells rely on an attack roll anyway. It wouldn't really increase the attack power of the Ranger by much, as it'd really only make its spellcasting more sustainable.

[Rfkannen]

The personal way I would do it would be by altering the warlock class. Give it the druid cantrips and spells level 6-9. Give it the ranger spells levels 1 through 5. You can pick 2 skills from the ranger list, and get one less cantrip but profiecy with bows on top of what warlocks normally get (they can get other martial weapons by going pact of the blade. I would also suggest going archefey.

[Specter]

4) Make a Fighter/Druid.

[Dudewithknives]

Hmm....

How about at 5th level, he loses his second attack but gains the ability to replenish his spell slots on a short rest, akin to a Warlock?

It SOUNDS strong, but most of the Ranger spells rely on an attack roll anyway. It wouldn't really increase the attack power of the Ranger by much, as it'd really only make its spellcasting more sustainable.

Yeah, I was thinking of making a subclass for the revised ranger.

The RR does not normally get a second attack at 5th, they get their effective second attack based on subclasses.

I was thinking basically:
Woodland Archer Subclass:

3rd:
You gain the option of learing certain druid spells when you hit certain levels and like some of the newer subclasses get bonus spells.
They also learn 2 cantrips from the druid class.

5th:
Either their spell casting for ranger spells becomes short rest renewal, or when they cast a spell, they can refresh a spell level one level lower.
ex. cast a level 2 spell and regain a level 1.
With their rather small spells per day it would kind of even out.

7th:
When you cast a ranger spell of level 1 or higher you can make a weapon attack as a bonus action.

11th:
You may use your bonus action to fire your spell in your arrow.
If you fire a spell that requires a spell attack either melee or ranged, you use your weapon's range and make a ranged weapon attack to deliver the spell.
If you fire a spell that requires a reflex save, the enemy has disadvntage on that save if the attack hits.

15th:
Your ranged attack are never made with disadvantage.

[Grod_The_Giant]

How 'bout a custom Druid subclass that adds a couple key Ranger spells?

Take Land Druid, replace the extra cantrip with a Fighting Style, and have a list of, oh...

*Ensnaring Strike, Hail of Thorns
*Cordon of Arrows, Pass Without Trace
*Conjure Barrage, Lightning Arrow
*Grasping Vine, Guardian of Nature
*Conjure Volley, Swift Quiver

Maybe throw in Extra Attack at 6th or 10th.