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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    If the PC's background is such that he can be goaded at first level to basically commit suicide by a standard movie trope then the problem is the PC. Make a better character.

    It's possible that the DM was a railroading DM but the PC killed himself before we got to that point.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by guachi View Post
    It's possible that the DM was a railroading DM but the PC killed himself before we got to that point.
    You seem to have missed that thw DM was apparently railroading and goading the entire party before the player even got to that point.
    Last edited by Tanarii; 2018-10-21 at 12:57 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Beholder

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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Note for future reference: Once you were down, it should have only taken two hits made by attackers within 5 ft. of you to kill you.
    https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Combat#toc_55:
    If damage reduces you to 0 Hit Points and fails to kill you, you fall Unconscious (see Conditions ). This unconsciousness ends if you regain any Hit Points.
    https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Conditions#toc_15:
    Unconscious
    An unconscious creature is incapacitated (see the condition), can’t move or speak, and is unaware of its surroundings
    The creature drops whatever it’s holding and falls prone.
    The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity Saving Throws.
    Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.
    Any Attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.
    https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Combat#toc_56:
    Damage at 0 Hit Points: If you take any damage while you have 0 Hit Points, you suffer a death saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer Instant Death.
    As for killing your character while he's down... Normally, I'd say that that was at least justifiable by saying that it was a good tactical decision. HOWEVER, magic is outlawed in your campaign and none of your party members appeared to be mid-combat healers, so someone healing the Barbarian (letting him get up again after being dropped to 0) mid-combat shouldn't have been something that the pirate captain needed to account for (after determining if your party had any mid-combat healers, of course).

    Furthermore, unless other (emotional) factors were in play, the captain should have opted to go for nonlethal damage over lethal damage. You could have made an excellent slave for his slave trader buddy, and, IIRC, you take no direct penalties for attempting to deal nonlethal damage over lethal damage in 5e.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    I am also really confused why this slaver decided to kill this dwarf rather than get another slave. And using his ferret familiar to deliver the final blow seems... Malicious at best.

    Parading the corpse through town also seems, like wait what? That's done entirely to spite the player, not some kind of logical outcome. There's gotta be a smarter way to do things as a DM.

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stupidfy View Post
    I spoke to him about retconning it a tad for my character to have lived, albeit barely. He has refused the notion and instead my PC will be paraded in town on a pike. I've decided to respectfully leave the campaign.
    I think that's fair. I think a good compromise would be, the slaver captain brings you back, to be sold as a slave (A Fate Worse Than Death). Then you can easily have a story arc be your allies rescuing you, perhaps you working from the inside to incentivise your fellow slaves to rise up.

    So for generations did the sainted skull of Caius Anicius Magnus Furius Camillus Æmilianus Cornelius Valerius Pompeius Julius Ibidus, consul of Rome, favourite of emperors, and saint of the Romish church, lie hidden beneath the soil of a growing town. At first worshipped with dark rites by the prairie-dogs, who saw in it a deity sent from the upper world..
    - H.P. Lovecraft, "Ibid".

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by terodil View Post
    A thought just occurred to me: What are the chances that the reason he has Mr. Boss-Pirate parade your head around town is that he wants you to bump head-first (sorry) into the resident high-level priest who just so happens to feel extraordinarily altruistic and resurrects you? It'd be a bit twisted, but I could just imagine some of my friends pulling off something like that...
    So, speaking as a DM, if I had something like that planned? I'd be telling my player *something will come of this*. Setting up a PC's death that will have narrative ramifications should be discussed with that player. If the goal is to have the PC's spirit resurrected as part of some larger plot device, fine, but make them aware that this is part of the story. Shelob "killing" Frodo leads to him being brought *into* Mordor by the orcs, and gives Samwise the impetus to go after him and have development. If your DM wanted your dwarf to "die", so the others will be inspired to help end the slave trade, and have him resurrected by a priest who's working on the inside to take down the system, then he should simply say "there is a reason, please roll with me for now".

    But honestly, it sounds like this is not the case here.

    So, if you go ever choose to go back? Beast ranger, with a dire weasel, and Favoured Enemy - Pirates.

    So for generations did the sainted skull of Caius Anicius Magnus Furius Camillus Æmilianus Cornelius Valerius Pompeius Julius Ibidus, consul of Rome, favourite of emperors, and saint of the Romish church, lie hidden beneath the soil of a growing town. At first worshipped with dark rites by the prairie-dogs, who saw in it a deity sent from the upper world..
    - H.P. Lovecraft, "Ibid".

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    One: Its never the players fault if they play it by their back story.

    Two: If a DM attacks downed characters to kill characters outright......I wouldn't play with them.

    Three: You still need to find away to work inside your background. If you know you can't beat them, then you will have to wait and plan something when you are able to beat them.
    Last edited by MThurston; 2018-10-22 at 11:01 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #68
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stupidfy View Post
    On the last turn, my character is dropped to 0 hp on the first attack. Following this, the NPC attacks with his other 2 attacks and then a 4th with the aid of a pet causing me to instantly die with no saves/healing. No other party member was attacked until I was dead.
    I think that it's a bit odd for the NPC to actually finish off your character when other threats were present - especially if he's the slaving type. Perhaps your DM wanted to create a sense of threat for future combats to teach you that characters actually can die, or perhaps no one was pressuring the NPC, so he had the time to finish you off, and felt that you were enough of a threat to warrant that response.

    When I DM, I typically don't have an enemy try to actively attack an already-downed character unless either A) The creature is just looking for a bite to eat, has killed a party member, and wants to drag it off to its lair or B) they're a villain (like Strahd or Acererak), who's hungry for blood/souls,and I want the party to know just how seriously to take this guy (and how trivial of a threat that the villain thinks they are).

    Attacking downed players is good for building dramatic tension if done properly. From what we read (which is only your side of things), it sounds like your DM wanted to play "optimally", and wasn't as concerned with the NPC's behavior (he would leave him unconscious because he could be used later) or message he was trying to send.

    Were I in the DM's shoes, I would have had the bandit captain barter for his life, holding a knife to the neck of their downed comrade, forcing the players to make a decision. The captain backs out slowly (I would actually act this out with my own body as I go into the adjoining room), while the character's player rolls the death saving throws every six seconds, and the players are left to make a choice...
    My first homebrew: 5e Strategist

  9. - Top - End - #69
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by ruy343 View Post
    I think that it's a bit odd for the NPC to actually finish off your character when other threats were present - especially if he's the slaving type. Perhaps your DM wanted to create a sense of threat for future combats to teach you that characters actually can die, or perhaps no one was pressuring the NPC, so he had the time to finish you off, and felt that you were enough of a threat to warrant that response.

    When I DM, I typically don't have an enemy try to actively attack an already-downed character unless either A) The creature is just looking for a bite to eat, has killed a party member, and wants to drag it off to its lair or B) they're a villain (like Strahd or Acererak), who's hungry for blood/souls,and I want the party to know just how seriously to take this guy (and how trivial of a threat that the villain thinks they are).

    Attacking downed players is good for building dramatic tension if done properly. From what we read (which is only your side of things), it sounds like your DM wanted to play "optimally", and wasn't as concerned with the NPC's behavior (he would leave him unconscious because he could be used later) or message he was trying to send.

    Were I in the DM's shoes, I would have had the bandit captain barter for his life, holding a knife to the neck of their downed comrade, forcing the players to make a decision. The captain backs out slowly (I would actually act this out with my own body as I go into the adjoining room), while the character's player rolls the death saving throws every six seconds, and the players are left to make a choice...
    Very good view on this. Bad form on your DM.

  10. - Top - End - #70
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Remake the character but switch your race to revenant from ua. Fixed.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Ivor_The_Mad's Avatar

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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Did the DM KNOW your backstory? If so then I agree that this was an unfair scenario. Your character was bated into attacking a group of high-level NPCs. What did the DM expect you to do? Ignore the situation which directly relates to your personality. From what it sounds like is that the DM meant for you to die and put you in a fatal situation. I don't blame your DM too much but situations like that aren't so fun sometimes.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor_The_Mad View Post
    Did the DM KNOW your backstory? If so then I agree that this was an unfair scenario. Your character was bated into attacking a group of high-level NPCs. What did the DM expect you to do?
    Probably what I expect most people to do: Realize attacking right now might be suicide and plot their revenge for later when the situation is more favourable/profitable.

    OR:

    Be ok that your character's story ends with them dying fighting for their cause...which is better than the "eaten by wolves" epitaph on most D&D character's gravestones.

    I'm not saying the DM isn't at fault for the way he handled it, but this idea that OP was forced to kill his own character!?! is probably BS.

  13. - Top - End - #73

    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by ruy343 View Post
    Were I in the DM's shoes, I would have had the bandit captain barter for his life, holding a knife to the neck of their downed comrade, forcing the players to make a decision. The captain backs out slowly (I would actually act this out with my own body as I go into the adjoining room), while the character's player rolls the death saving throws every six seconds, and the players are left to make a choice...
    This only works if you change the 5E rules on death saves. You can't ready a multiattack, so by strict 5E rules, this tactic is just an invitation for a PC to let you make your attack (-2 death saves) and then cast Healing Word to completely negate your attack AND get the PC back up to positive HP all in one bonus action. The threat is therefore ineffective, under vanilla PHB rules.

    But if you change the death rules to something like "each failed death save costs you 20% of your HP, rounded up, and you die when you reach -100% of your max HP; a successful death save or receiving magical healing stabilizes you" then this threat can be effective to some extent since you're threatening an auto-crit and Healing Word will heal far less damage than your auto-crit will inflict. Even better if you also rewrite the rules for readied actions so that Multiattack still works.

    Both of these changes are good ideas for their own sake already, but the fact that they allow hostage-taking in this scenario is a nice bonus.

    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    Probably what I expect most people to do: Realize attacking right now might be suicide and plot their revenge for later when the situation is more favourable/profitable.
    Part of the problem here seems to be a mismatch between backstory (a gladiator who's already fought his way to the top) and reality (he's still a first-level PC).
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2018-10-22 at 05:18 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    Probably what I expect most people to do: Realize attacking right now might be suicide and plot their revenge for later when the situation is more favourable/profitable.
    This remark doesn't resemble most D&D players. Committing suicide-by-axe-attack the moment a more powerful enemy taunts them is definitely more their métier.

    Although to be fair, sometimes that's the DMs fault for not telegraphing. And sometimes it's other DMs fault for training them to think no matter what, every encounter will be level appropriate and winnable.

    Be ok that your character's story ends with them dying fighting for their cause...which is better than the "eaten by wolves" epitaph on most D&D character's gravestones.
    Seriously. I've gleefully sent characters into certain death to die heroically (or villainously as the case may be) many times. Just so long as it didn't happen in a way that made me feel stupid.

    Otoh Death By (not giant) Ferret Bite would certainly make me feel like my heroic attempt to die fighting slavers was stupid.

  15. - Top - End - #75
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by MThurston View Post
    One: Its never the players fault if they play it by their back story.
    Wrong.

    If the player's back story is used as motivation to grief other players, it's the player's fault. If the player's back story is used as justification to not help the other PCs, for example, it's the player's fault. The player controls his PC. He can come up with a justification to not grief other players or not commit suicide or help his fellow PCs out.

    This lame excuse is the equivalent of "I was just following orders".

    Quote Originally Posted by MThurston View Post
    Two: If a DM attacks downed characters to kill characters outright......I wouldn't play with them.
    Maybe the DM was just playing the NPCs by their back story.
    Last edited by guachi; 2018-10-22 at 09:20 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merudo View Post
    Anyone with three attacks a round is either level 5+ and dual wielding / using Polearm Mastery, or level 11+.
    Or a NPC like a Gladiator or Champion and not a NPC built like a levelled PC (which are rare; even nonexistent in core rules save for an individual DM statting one out).

    I expect NPCs to not have levels at all. For the most part that's accurate.

    And it was a **** move by the DM. You should have been knocked unconscious and not killed.

    That said, would killing this guy have stopped the Slave trade? It seems like you werent thinking much about the consequences of your actions.

  17. - Top - End - #77
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    I'm not saying the DM isn't at fault for the way he handled it, but this idea that OP was forced to kill his own character!?! is probably BS.
    Yes, it's BS. But it's BS on the behalf of the DM's side of things. He had a lot of options for that fight or that entire scenario that other people have outlined, that didn't involve killing the character.

    Sometimes players act out of character and do something that stupid that you could not have planned for as a DM. But in this scenario, it almost seemed like everything was set up to antagonise and test the players.

    Look at it in a different perspective, if he had decided to overlook the dwarf slaves right in front of him, can you be sure the DM wouldn't later dock him for ignoring their plight? You can't be sure in this situation. It's just a stupid player trap.

  18. - Top - End - #78
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by guachi View Post
    Wrong.

    If the player's back story is used as motivation to grief other players, it's the player's fault. If the player's back story is used as justification to not help the other PCs, for example, it's the player's fault. The player controls his PC. He can come up with a justification to not grief other players or not commit suicide or help his fellow PCs out.

    This lame excuse is the equivalent of "I was just following orders".



    Maybe the DM was just playing the NPCs by their back story.

    SMH.

    Most people have a backstory. They should feel that when a DM enters into it the player should bite.

    So there should never be a problem with taking bites to your back story.

    DM: You think you see your long lost sister's face in the crowd.

    Player: Cool, I go sell my loot.

    A DM should never attack downed players while the group is still standing. (Unless a dumb animal is trying to eat and even if the animal had 8 attacks, I would only attack once per turn to give the party a chance to save them.)

    With this situation, making the PCs slaves would have been better. You don't just attack PCs to kill them.

    Not a game I am willing to play.

    Let me give you an example.

    Your fighter goes down. Each hit while you are down equals 2 failed saves. (I believe this is correct) So an enemy wizard could launch 3 MMs, hitting the fighter twice and someone else once.

    Wash and repeat and your whole party is dead.

    There is a difference in playing enemies smart and outright abusing the group.

    So much roleplaying was lost by not capturing the group or some of the group.
    Last edited by MThurston; 2018-10-23 at 04:31 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    DrowGirl

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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by MThurston View Post
    Most people have a backstory. They should feel that when a DM enters into it the player should bite.

    So there should never be a problem with taking bites to your back story.
    There's one half-phrase that I'm desperately missing in this post and others that express the same opinion: within reason.

    A backstory does not absolve you, as the player, from responsibility for your actions, nor does it protect you from having to face the consequences for them, if you decide to play it out against all warnings that that little thing called 'common sense' is yelling at you. Besides, a backstory that consists of a single big red button with no failsafe is a bad backstory.

    (This is just a comment on the 'a player can never be wrong and should never face consequences if his/her character acts according to his/her backstory'. I'm not getting into the debate of the OP's situation again, everything has been said there IMO.)
    Last edited by terodil; 2018-10-23 at 05:19 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #80
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by terodil View Post
    There's one half-phrase that I'm desperately missing in this post and others that express the same opinion: within reason.

    A backstory does not absolve you, as the player, from responsibility for your actions, nor does it protect you from having to face the consequences for them, if you decide to play it out against all warnings that that little thing called 'common sense' is yelling at you. Besides, a backstory that consists of a single big red button with no failsafe is a bad backstory.

    (This is just a comment on the 'a player can never be wrong and should never face consequences if his/her character acts according to his/her backstory'. I'm not getting into the debate of the OP's situation again, everything has been said there IMO.)
    I agree and disagree. I agree with the concepts, and I think I'm only on disagreement with your wording. I don't think a character following their background can ever be 'wrong' but they absolutely should have consequences.

    My example is I have a player who had made themselves a 'raised by wolves' style ranger beast master. She was just arrested when she had her animal companion carry the severed leg of a human into a major city. It was from a bandit and I allowed her to get off with a slap in the wrist after explaining herself, with a warning from the guard that this kind of behavior isn't tolerated in civilized places, even if the leg was attached to someone who attacked you first. Self-defense doesn't justify dismemberment. (Unless you are a sufficiently Powerful Noble that can get away with making a show of things like that)

  21. - Top - End - #81
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by terodil View Post
    There's one half-phrase that I'm desperately missing in this post and others that express the same opinion: within reason.

    A backstory does not absolve you, as the player, from responsibility for your actions, nor does it protect you from having to face the consequences for them, if you decide to play it out against all warnings that that little thing called 'common sense' is yelling at you. Besides, a backstory that consists of a single big red button with no failsafe is a bad backstory.

    (This is just a comment on the 'a player can never be wrong and should never face consequences if his/her character acts according to his/her backstory'. I'm not getting into the debate of the OP's situation again, everything has been said there IMO.)
    It is the job of the DM for put plot hooks. My issue is not with having a powerful foe. My issue is assassinating a character for no reason.

    Again, I would have not come back to the table. Any DM that does this has issues. A slaver would never kill when thry can sell.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    DrowGirl

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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by MThurston View Post
    It is the job of the DM for put plot hooks. My issue is not with having a powerful foe. My issue is assassinating a character for no reason. [...] Any DM that does this has issues. A slaver would never kill when thry can sell.
    Plot hooks are an invitation to engage, not to fly off the handle. Again, engage within reason. If a player throws all reason out of the window because 'it says so on my character sheet', then that's the point where things have already gone wrong. An experienced and confident DM could and would have salvaged the situation but let's not forget it was the player first who 'had issues', the DM second, although I don't really see much point in playing the blame game here. Regrettable errors were made on all sides that lead to the implosion of a potentially great campaign.

    Also, just for the sake of preventing unfortunate incidents in the future, it's a completely unwarranted assumption that slavers would never employ deadly force, especially when attacked.

    @Galithar: I believe we are in agreement with only semantic issues slightly muddying the waters ('wrong', 'player vs. PC'). I agree with how that tasty crunchy leg was handled. Then again, having a fluffy wolf carry a treat around is slightly different from trying to axe a slaver in the face, right? ;)
    Last edited by terodil; 2018-10-23 at 06:36 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by terodil View Post
    Plot hooks are an invitation to engage, not to fly off the handle. Again, engage within reason. If a player throws all reason out of the window because 'it says so on my character sheet', then that's the point where things have already gone wrong. An experienced and confident DM could and would have salvaged the situation but let's not forget it was the player first who 'had issues', the DM second.

    Also, just for the record, it's a completely unwarranted assumption that slavers would never employ deadly force, especially when attacked.

    @Galithar: I believe we are in agreement with only slightly semantic issues muddying the waters ('wrong', 'player vs. PC'). I agree with how that tasty crunchy leg was handled. Then again, having a fluffy wolf carry a treat around is slightly different from trying to axe a slaver in the face, right? ;)
    This right here is the issue.

    Oh, I am sorry. Did I over react to my backstory. So the punishment is death.

    Again, attacking the character so they lose their character while the party is still up is lame.

    Not a DM I am willing to play with.

    Again, it sounds like the DM has issues. Maybe you do also.

    The story should never be bigger than the players. And every attempt should be made to not kill the players for silly reasons.

    Ie, the group has really bad rolls and they all are knocked down.

    Do you kill all of them?

    No, they wake up captured. Sold or held ransom.

    Sometimes the story after a failure is the best drama.

    Now again, my issue is with attacking a down PC. Not that he died.

    Sounds like the NPC died, so wasting those attacks on a down PC was stupid. All it did was cause issues with the PCs that lived.

    They now know that the DM will attack down PCs.

    Not someone I want to be my DM.
    Last edited by MThurston; 2018-10-23 at 06:37 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Oh yes, they're different which is why she was allowed to be released. Though it's still in poor form to kill this character for going after the slaver. The DM knew the backstory and this NPC blatantly taunted him. Consequences sure, but as keeps getting said in regards to the player, within reason applies to the DM as well.

    Threaten him, restrain him, throw him overboard, enslave him. All of these are good. Kill him... With a weasel. Really?

  25. - Top - End - #85
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    DrowGirl

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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by MThurston View Post
    This right here is the issue. Oh, I am sorry. Did I over react to my backstory. So the punishment is death. [...]
    Look, what kind of story are you cooperatively telling at your table if the players know that they can fly off the handle with absolute impunity because they can just point at the GM and say s/he 'has issues' if one of them dies? Our core disagreement is obviously at the point of what killing a PC 'for silly reasons' means. It's a rather fuzzy phrase and I think you'd do well to refrain from gratuitous ad-hominems until you clarify your position further. I certainly believe there are situations that can very quickly lead to a PC kill, and possibly even a TPK. It's not a good idea for a level 1 adventuring party to make a beeline for the ancient dragon's lair, even if their backstories say they're all dragon hunters, just because the DM had it circle overhead to create a sense of foreboding. Sure, any reasonable DM would give them several warnings and shots before the bow but at some point, the PCs make their own beds and have to lie in it.

  26. - Top - End - #86
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DrowGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galithar View Post
    Though it's still in poor form to kill this character for going after the slaver. The DM knew the backstory and this NPC blatantly taunted him. Consequences sure, but as keeps getting said in regards to the player, within reason applies to the DM as well. Threaten him, restrain him, throw him overboard, enslave him. All of these are good. Kill him... With a weasel. Really?
    Oh I completely agree and my earlier posts in this thread already made my position clear, i.e. it was the weasel that pushed me from 'the DM was right, albeit too harsh' into 'the DM did this for out-of-game reasons and it's a symptom of something bigger' camp.

    I'm just taking exception at the position that PC death is basically excluded from the list of potential consequences of even the most irrational PC actions.

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Jan 2007
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    Norway
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    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    The DM puts everything in the story into the game. If he puts a slave in front of the player, there's probably a reason for it. He could always have never pointed out the slaves. Or just not had slaves. He could have made them pirates that were more interested in loot and booty. But he put the slaves in there. Possibly well aware of the type of reaction he'd get from his players. That means it is his responsibility.

    I would have frankly been like "oh, is this my cue?" if it happened in my game. If they were an appropriate challenge, this would have been an opportunity. Heck, the DM controls that too! The fact that the DM decided to put powerful pirates in a room with a player with a backstory that can't handle seeing slavery to show him slavery, that's beyond doubt tempting bait. There's at least three other ways he could have handled it and he chose the most antagonistic method.

    There's really no excuse for this situation. That doesn't mean that flying off the handle because "backstory" is always going to fly either, there's within reason and if you ask me, this player was well within reason to act as he did, given what we've been told. Surely the DM has a third(OP and a second player have given theirs) point of view, but we're not privvy to that.

    But this is why I am always in heavy favor of DM vetting backstory, carefully reading them and actually work with their players to create their character and flesh them out before play. D&D isn't played like in the old days where you didn't need to think of a name until you reached level 4, you can invest into them at level 1 now and expect them to go out in a blaze of glory later.

  28. - Top - End - #88
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by terodil View Post
    Look, what kind of story are you cooperatively telling at your table if the players know that they can fly off the handle with absolute impunity because they can just point at the GM and say s/he 'has issues' if one of them dies? Our core disagreement is obviously at the point of what killing a PC 'for silly reasons' means. It's a rather fuzzy phrase and I think you'd do well to refrain from gratuitous ad-hominems until you clarify your position further. I certainly believe there are situations that can very quickly lead to a PC kill, and possibly even a TPK. It's not a good idea for a level 1 adventuring party to make a beeline for the ancient dragon's lair, even if their backstories say they're all dragon hunters, just because the DM had it circle overhead to create a sense of foreboding. Sure, any reasonable DM would give them several warnings and shots before the bow but at some point, the PCs make their own beds and have to lie in it.
    It's not flying off the handle.

    Attacking a princess that has a pet bird in a cage is flying off the handle.

  29. - Top - End - #89
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by terodil View Post
    Look, what kind of story are you cooperatively telling at your table if the players know that they can fly off the handle with absolute impunity because they can just point at the GM and say s/he 'has issues' if one of them dies? Our core disagreement is obviously at the point of what killing a PC 'for silly reasons' means. It's a rather fuzzy phrase and I think you'd do well to refrain from gratuitous ad-hominems until you clarify your position further. I certainly believe there are situations that can very quickly lead to a PC kill, and possibly even a TPK. It's not a good idea for a level 1 adventuring party to make a beeline for the ancient dragon's lair, even if their backstories say they're all dragon hunters, just because the DM had it circle overhead to create a sense of foreboding. Sure, any reasonable DM would give them several warnings and shots before the bow but at some point, the PCs make their own beds and have to lie in it.
    Don't let this guy be your DM. He does not get it.
    Last edited by MThurston; 2018-10-23 at 07:22 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #90
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: My character died am I wrong to be frustrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by MThurston View Post
    It's not flying off the handle.

    Attacking a princess that has a pet bird in a cage is flying off the handle.
    How is attacking a bad guy out of anger when you're surrounded by their allies not flying off the handle?

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