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  1. - Top - End - #301
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    I'm getting the impression that what Maya ACTUALLY hates about Incubus is that Meti liked him better than her as a student.
    I don't think Meti can be described as liking people as students. It's really not the correct verb.

    Meti's entire philosophy is that mastering the sword is a terrible idea for idiots who make everything worse. And yes she does include herself in this category.

    She teaches that to master "sword law", you need to be completely absorbed by the act of cutting. You need to not think about anything else -- not why you're doing it in the first place, not how you plan to survive, not what happens after you win, or after you lose. Just the Cut. You need to think only about this, but so strongly that you can do it even if you lose your sword, even if you lose your life. Cutting is the only thing you should ever focus on, if you want to be good at it.

    And that's why she has the most total contempt for those who, like her, go down that road, because they're completely useless.

    Maya is her apprentice because, like Meti, she finds the whole thing appalling. That's what made her a terrible student, but it's also what made her a student in the first place, instead of an object lesson. Incubus just went with the flow, accepting Meti's lessons without ever questioning them, and never adopting the same disgust that Meti had. Consider that Meti, while she was the most badass warrior in the setting, chose to live as a hobo in a barrel instead of conquering a realm and ruling as a queen. She could have, who could have opposed her? At the very least she could have been some hero of the realm kind of thing, if she didn't want to rule directly. She could still have lived in wealth and comfort. But no, she purposefully rejected all of that to live like Diogenes.

    Maya once led the Middle Army and it's been implied that she held one of the Keys of creation, she could have been one of the Demiurges. But she abandoned her throne to live as a mendicant knight. Incubus took the throne Maya abandoned and still rules as a Demiurge. Perhaps he was a better student than Maya for pure swordfighting; but it's pretty clear that he wasn't really a student of Meti; otherwise he'd be living in a barrel and encouraging people to learn how to cook noodles instead of pushing them on magical ambition drugs. (It's interesting that Incubus' junkies do end up as destitute hobos anyway, but not of their own inititative like Meti and Maya.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Well, this comic about the rat was unexpected. Maya says she believes that Meti thought of her as her only true pupil. Now, I have no doubt Maya believes that.

    I have, however, some little doubts that Meti really thought that. The previous comics have shown Meti as very approving of Incubus while disapproving of Maya. This newest comic suggests otherwise - but if Meti is all about teaching the wisdom of the right (preventive) action at the right time, her entrance qualifications of having a shaved head... are... pretty strange.

    Also, her teachings are worrisome. Let's think this through:
    - If Maya was wanting to kill the rat right on the behest of Meti, she should have killed the rat right away. (Or competed with Incubus on the honor.) That would have not been the wise action, just following the order.
    - If Maya was not wanting the rat dead, she should have killed Incubus? Just like that? Would THAT course of action have been the wise path that Meti wanted to guide her on?
    - If Maya was not willing to kill Incubus over a rat, what should she have done?

    Well, it all comes down to that: If you can see where the current situation will lead things to develop (i.e. know that Incubus will kill the innocent rat), are you willing to do the necessary preventive actions (i.e. kill Incubus to have the rat alive) and live with the universe that unfolds BECAUSE OF HOW YOU (not) ACTED in some way.
    The latest comic suggests that Maya is contemplating all of this thoroughly. Obviously too much so.

    With regards to the previous discussion about the nature of the seven demiurges and whether or not they correspond to the seven sins of Catholicism: Maya would seem to be like an extremely good fit for Sloth. She is so good at not acting (for various reasons) that she doesn't even rule "her" domain. [Again, this is a conjecture of everything we have seen about her: She is a good-natured person, she thinks about consequences, but she rarely takes the decisive actions she would need to be a proper ruler.] Incubus has been said not to be the true demiurge of his domain, but I somehow doubt Maya is really a full demiurge.

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  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post
    Well, this comic about the rat was unexpected. Maya says she believes that Meti thought of her as her only true pupil. Now, I have no doubt Maya believes that.

    I have, however, some little doubts that Meti really thought that. The previous comics have shown Meti as very approving of Incubus while disapproving of Maya. This newest comic suggests otherwise - but if Meti is all about teaching the wisdom of the right (preventive) action at the right time, her entrance qualifications of having a shaved head... are... pretty strange.

    Also, her teachings are worrisome. Let's think this through:
    - If Maya was wanting to kill the rat right on the behest of Meti, she should have killed the rat right away. (Or competed with Incubus on the honor.) That would have not been the wise action, just following the order.
    - If Maya was not wanting the rat dead, she should have killed Incubus? Just like that? Would THAT course of action have been the wise path that Meti wanted to guide her on?
    - If Maya was not willing to kill Incubus over a rat, what should she have done?

    Well, it all comes down to that: If you can see where the current situation will lead things to develop (i.e. know that Incubus will kill the innocent rat), are you willing to do the necessary preventive actions (i.e. kill Incubus to have the rat alive) and live with the universe that unfolds BECAUSE OF HOW YOU (not) ACTED in some way.
    The latest comic suggests that Maya is contemplating all of this thoroughly. Obviously too much so.
    The lesson is "do whatever it takes to get what you want." It doesn't matter if your goal is "wise" or not, or what the consequences will be. All that matters is what you're willing to do to attain it. Same with the haircut - it was never about the hair, it was about how far Maya would go to get Meti to teach her.

    This, I suspect, is the essence of Sword Law.
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  4. - Top - End - #304
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post
    Well, this comic about the rat was unexpected. Maya says she believes that Meti thought of her as her only true pupil. Now, I have no doubt Maya believes that.

    I have, however, some little doubts that Meti really thought that.
    Maya's sword manual refers to her "only apprentice" as "an idiot speck of a girl with more talent for eating than skill with the blade."

    It is really hard to see how that applies to Incubus.

    This newest comic suggests otherwise - but if Meti is all about teaching the wisdom of the right (preventive) action at the right time, her entrance qualifications of having a shaved head... are... pretty strange.
    Admittedly, it's cheating a bit to rely on comprehensive knowledge of Abaddon's twitter, but no, you have Meti exactly wrong. Abaddon has said that the entire point of her character is that she could easily beat anyone and doesn't.

    The point of this lesson isn't that Maya should have killed Incubus. Obviously Maya did not want to (and should not have) killed Incubus over the life of a rat.

    The point of this lesson is that the way of the sword is futile and self-defeating.

    Again, reread Meti's sword manual, which gives us a lot more insight into Meti's philosophy than the few in-comic appearances you're trying to interpret. It's pretty plain in context that she thinks that Inucubus is an idiot and that his strategy of murdering things until he's won is both reprehensible and pointless. For instance:

    A man who finds pleasure in the result of cutting is the most hateful, crawling creature there is. A man who finds pleasure in the act of cutting is an artisan.
    Which of those two do you think "winning is all that matters" Incubus is?

    Or maybe more tellingly:
    The weak swordsman clings to victory. He thinks of his life, his obligations, the outcome of the battle, his hatred for his opponent, his training, his pride in his mastery. By doing so, he is an imperfect vessel for the terrible fires of Will. He will surely crack. He will not laugh uproariously if he is cleft in two by his opponent’s blade. When his sword is shattered, his hands will be too reserved to tear his enemies’ flesh.
    This one could have (and may very well actually have) been written as a screw-you to Incubus specifically. She straight-up says that his philosophy makes him weak.

    Quote Originally Posted by rooster707 View Post
    The lesson is "do whatever it takes to get what you want." It doesn't matter if your goal is "wise" or not, or what the consequences will be. All that matters is what you're willing to do to attain it. Same with the haircut - it was never about the hair, it was about how far Maya would go to get Meti to teach her.
    Yes, but I think Maya passed and Incubus failed (and became an object lesson for Maya.) The fact that determination can cut the world doesn't mean that it should cut the world. That's the core of Meti's teaching - the sword is an ugly piece of metal and its adherents idiots.

    It's obvious at a glance that Incubus was never going to internalize this and only cared about learning how to separate men from their vital fluids.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2019-04-28 at 01:10 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #305
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post
    Well, this comic about the rat was unexpected. Maya says she believes that Meti thought of her as her only true pupil. Now, I have no doubt Maya believes that.

    I have, however, some little doubts that Meti really thought that.
    It's what she wrote in her Sword Manual, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post
    The previous comics have shown Meti as very approving of Incubus while disapproving of Maya.
    Do you really think this is approval?

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post

    This newest comic suggests otherwise - but if Meti is all about teaching the wisdom of the right (preventive) action at the right time, her entrance qualifications of having a shaved head... are... pretty strange.

    Also, her teachings are worrisome. Let's think this through:
    - If Maya was wanting to kill the rat right on the behest of Meti, she should have killed the rat right away. (Or competed with Incubus on the honor.) That would have not been the wise action, just following the order.
    - If Maya was not wanting the rat dead, she should have killed Incubus? Just like that? Would THAT course of action have been the wise path that Meti wanted to guide her on?
    - If Maya was not willing to kill Incubus over a rat, what should she have done?

    Well, it all comes down to that: If you can see where the current situation will lead things to develop (i.e. know that Incubus will kill the innocent rat), are you willing to do the necessary preventive actions (i.e. kill Incubus to have the rat alive) and live with the universe that unfolds BECAUSE OF HOW YOU (not) ACTED in some way.
    The latest comic suggests that Maya is contemplating all of this thoroughly. Obviously too much so.
    The essence of Sword Law is that when swords are involved, death is unavoidable. Your only choice is in whether you are the one who kill, or the one who let the kill happen. It's basically the trolley moral dilemma. Violence cannot be escaped.

    Meti is pretty much like the Very Wise Frog.
    https://killsixbilliondemons.com/com...-thrones-5-41/

    Note that the Very Wise Frog dies to prove its point to Kassardis. Meti lets Incubus kill her to prove her point to Maya.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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  6. - Top - End - #306
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Honk. tenchar
    I solemnly swear,
    To devote my life and abilities,
    In defence of the United Nations of Earth,
    To defend the Constitution of Man,
    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
    From the depths of the pacific, to the edge of the galaxy.
    For as long as I shall live.

  7. - Top - End - #307
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Honk. tenchar
    Shooooooosh

    pap


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  8. - Top - End - #308
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    So.. it seems the clown god.. send a clown messenger with a clown invitation for some clowning.
    This is in no way a little scary.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  9. - Top - End - #309
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Why does he seem more terrifying that many other characters we have seen?

    Also, he's wrong. There are no Gentlemen here.
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by PraetorDragoon View Post
    Why does he seem more terrifying that many other characters we have seen?

    Also, he's wrong. There are no Gentlemen here.
    He (it? It's an emissary of Gog-Agog, it might not actually be a gendered person as such..) is just doing the usual intro-script for a carnival barker/ringmaster. He would probably do exactly the same thing if he was doing the introduction to empty air.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Or, it might be a targeted barb? This comic has taken gender pronouns seriously before - why stop (especially since the author could have figured out a way not to make it its own panel).
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    How would said barb target anyone?
    Especially when it could be taken as a traditional circus greeting?
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    How would said barb target anyone?
    Especially when it could be taken as a traditional circus greeting?
    Because there are no gentlemen in the group being addressed. As far as diplomacy is concerned, the person is either an idiot for not adjusting their greeting accordingly, or being sarcastic. I lean towards reading it as sarcasm hidden behind a fairly thin layer of plausible deniability.
    Truth resists simplicity.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Or he was trained to say "Ladies and Gentlemen" by Gog-A-Gog in all circumstances as though he was at the circus so that's what he'll say.
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    He may have been taking a shot at Chains.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Leewei View Post
    He may have been taking a shot at Chains.
    That was my guess. It might be unintentional; angels are supposed to all be male (or at least masculine), right? Female ones might be uncommon enough that most people don't know they exist, or just assume any angel they meet is male anyway.

    Slightly off topic: I'm going to shill for LANCER one more time, then I'll stop, I promise. There's about a day and a half left on the Kickstarter, and we're only $20,000 away from the final stretch goal. If you're a fan of RPGs, mechs, military sci-fi, science fantasy, or just Abbadon in general, I think you'll like it.
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Angels aren't male, they are supposedly all lacking a gender as a matter of being some kind of platonic ideal of the universe or some such. The thing is as time goes on it looks like just about all of them are gaining one or at least identifying with one, but they still act like its a big deal and give people that show it off crap.
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    He may have been taking a shot at Chains.
    It seems like its just Allison and Chio he is adressing.

    But yes, all the same then all the angels are suposedly, if not male then masculine.
    It is kinda a big deal mostly i think, because they spring from the White Flame of UN.
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Well that seems like a perfectly reasonable reaction.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Mottom - Glory
    Flame - Incubus
    Tower - Mamon
    Beast- Gog Agog
    Diamond - Solomon

    Leaving The Blade & The Mind.

    I'm full in on Jag being Mind now.
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by mystic1110 View Post
    Mottom - Glory
    Flame - Incubus
    Tower - Mamon
    Beast- Gog Agog
    Diamond - Solomon

    Leaving The Blade & The Mind.

    I'm full in on Jag being Mind now.
    Almost certainly not, Jadis is almost literally nothing BUT a mind at this point.

    I'm still surprised Mammon was Tower, though, so anything could happen.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    Angels aren't male, they are supposedly all lacking a gender
    I'm gonna be pedantic but you cannot be lacking a gender, it's impossible. Gender is (also, and initially) a linguistic property of nouns. Not only do you have necessarily a gender, but you also actually have multiple ones -- at least one per language, and it's not necessarily masculine/feminine/neutral/common since some languages use different gender types, such as "animate/inanimate" for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    I'm gonna be pedantic but you cannot be lacking a gender, it's impossible. Gender is (also, and initially) a linguistic property of nouns. Not only do you have necessarily a gender, but you also actually have multiple ones -- at least one per language, and it's not necessarily masculine/feminine/neutral/common since some languages use different gender types, such as "animate/inanimate" for example.
    When discussion immortal cosmic representations of the white fires of creation in a world where god killed themselves to create reality then wandered back into it to teach people because logic is a falsehood that chains the mind from the truth of the universe then I'm fairly certain something can be totally lacking in gender
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    I did not expect Gog-Agog to show up in a magical girl outfit. I now demand the rest of the Seven in similar outfits. The Seven Scouts

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsandlich View Post
    I did not expect Gog-Agog to show up in a magical girl outfit. I now demand the rest of the Seven in similar outfits. The Seven Scouts
    Huh?

    1) It's not a magical girl outfit. It's a court jester's outfit.

    2) It's the same outfit that it was wearing every time we've seen it before

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    Huh?

    1) It's not a magical girl outfit. It's a court jester's outfit.

    2) It's the same outfit that it was wearing every time we've seen it before

    Its different than her previous jester outfits. The pose and the sceptre-staff are very magical girl. Also, the bursting out of the clown minion is a grotesque parody of magical girl transformations
    Last edited by Hamsandlich; 2019-05-10 at 07:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Wow, er, that was quite the entrance.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    She did learn something from Mottom, didn't she?
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsandlich View Post
    Its different than her previous jester outfits. The pose and the sceptre-staff are very magical girl. Also, the bursting out of the clown minion is a grotesque parody of magical girl transformations
    The pose, yes, but the scepter is very typical for clowns, fools and jesters, too. I mean, there's some of both, but overall, it's very jester.

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    Last edited by Eldan; 2019-05-11 at 08:45 AM.
    I solemnly swear,
    To devote my life and abilities,
    In defence of the United Nations of Earth,
    To defend the Constitution of Man,
    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
    From the depths of the pacific, to the edge of the galaxy.
    For as long as I shall live.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    When discussion immortal cosmic representations of the white fires of creation in a world where god killed themselves to create reality then wandered back into it to teach people because logic is a falsehood that chains the mind from the truth of the universe then I'm fairly certain something can be totally lacking in gender
    Only if no one ever talks about it.

    Did you see that? I just gave it a gender by talking about it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
    Hark! An avatar drawn by Kate Beaton!

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