Results 31 to 60 of 232
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2018-10-29, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Esslingen, Germany
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Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
What parallel universe have I ended up in which nobody has heard of Dungeon Keeper, of all things? It might be one of the most well-known games of the 90s across all genres, let alone settlement management games.
This signature is boring. The stuff I write might not be. Warning: Ponies.
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2018-10-29, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
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- Between SEA and PDX.
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Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
I guess I'm a little younger than most who know about it. The first game is near impossible to get running on an XP computer, and probably requires a few hacks to get working on anything modern. The first I've ever heard about it was around 10 years ago, well over it's shelf life.
Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2018-10-29 at 05:13 PM.
5th Edition Homebrewery
Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!
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2018-10-29, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
Back in the day, it was on the cover of most gaming magazines on the month it came out.
Also I remember a recent-ish spiritual successor-ish thing called Dungeons 3, where they tried to slap together Dungeon Keeper and Warcraft 3, but it was pretty meh, to me at least.
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2018-10-29, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
Hand of Fate 2.
It's a somewhat boardgamey roguelite with pseudo-Arkham-style combat (which is its weakest point, but still really good) and a card-based unlock system.
EDIT: As the title implies, it's a sequel to one Rodin listed. It's even better than that one, though, and by a large margin.Last edited by enderlord99; 2018-10-29 at 07:14 PM.
I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.
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2018-10-30, 01:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
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- Germany
- Gender
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
Well, I guess I'll forgive you for being too young.. But as was pointed out, DK was extremely famous back in the day. I think its mascot is still kind of famous.
Also, I dare say its direct sequel is actually a huge improvement on the original. Somehow studios have failed to emulate the formula in the past decade, but War for the Overworld did a decent job of copying it.
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2018-10-30, 02:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
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- Secret Lair on Sol c
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2018-10-30, 04:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
I'm sure people have heard of them, but I've never heard anyone discussing them...
Galaxy 5000 for the NES. It's a racing game with hovering space ship-like vehicles and some combat mixed in. It had a clear visual aesthetic that worked well to create that pseudo-3D look for itself, the ships handled well, and the combat was fun without taking over the racing experience. Of the NES collection my father has, outside of the Mario games, Final Fantasys, and Micromachines it's probably the one I played the most.
Again, I don't know how popular it was at the time, but Assault Suits Valken for the SNEs. It's a side-scrolling mecha action game with elements of a shmup. In terms of embodying that mecha-style fantasy it was pretty well done, the visual style had this heavy industrial-armoured feeling to everything and was neatly anime but in a more utilitarian fashion than the hyperbolic style that genre can go into, it was pretty hard difficulty-wise without feeling needlessly punishing, and it mixed the Megaman-esque platforming levels with these free-floating space combat ones and the faster-moving shmup sections all while keeping the feeling of being in this heavy mecha. Apparently it was re-titled Cybernator in the international release, which is... fine, I guess.Last edited by Kitten Champion; 2019-03-14 at 09:30 PM.
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2018-10-30, 05:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
Since many people are referencing more recent games, let me dig into my Steam portfolio and check out the less popular ones:
Black Closet: Made by Hanako Games (which probably means something to some people), it's a management game with you being the student council president and solving "cases" for the school. There are quite a few ways to attack a case, though, and that plus the time constraints make things pretty hectic as the game progresses. Also the writing isn't half bad.
Framed: A stylish little noir-themed puzzle game in which you sort out the panels of a storyboard to let the story flow correctly.
Hero-U: I'm surprised that this didn't explode much. It's made by the creators of Quest for Glory, and you play a student in the "Hero University" as a member of the "Disbarred Bards" class, which is named because if you call them Rogues, you've pretty much destroyed the point of Rogues. A pretty good time management/RPG/point-and-click adventure hybrid with no hand holding.
Last Word: A short little crime-solving adventure game with a nice gimmick: the "battle system" is actually the two parties discoursing and trying to stump the opposition.
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2018-10-30, 06:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
Shantae series, currently four games, all but the first are on Steam btw.
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2018-10-30, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
I guess since there's been some other moderately well known games mentioned, I thought I'd mention my favorite mostly-overlooked RTS.
Sacrifice. You're a dimensional-hopping sorcerer looking to establish a life for yourself in a new world. There are 5 gods in this world who aim to give you missions to perform for them, and as the game progresses some gods get mad at you for things and won't want to work with you anymore. It's got a pretty good story going on and some choices through the story will offer more insight into events than others do.I write a horror blog in my spare time.
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2018-10-30, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
- Gender
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
Sacrifice is awesome and really, really underappreciated.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2018-10-30, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
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- Between SEA and PDX.
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Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
One I really liked for the PS1 was
Unholy War: A combination of battle arena and turn-based strategy. Each unit isn't just a unit, but a character you can play in battle. Each tile isn't just a tile, but an arena with various different traps and environmental effects, like traps, portals, lifts, conveyor belts, lasers, and other things you can use for your battle strategy. The game plays by default on the grid, and when two opposing units step on the same tile, a battle commences where both players duke it out until one is left standing. Each unit has its own playstyle and abilities, and they're designed to have individual counters with each unit. Units retain life lost from a battle, so even if you lose, you can soften up the enemy for the next fight. On the grid, you can earn resources that will let you spawn more units, and each unit also has special abilities they can use to manipulate the board. Very much like the original Archon, with actually playable controls. The game has two factions, the native monsters vs. the immigrant robots, with some units being able to replicate themselves, fly, shoot missiles or teleport, so there's a lot of strategy involved.Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2018-10-30 at 10:17 AM.
5th Edition Homebrewery
Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!
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2018-10-30, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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2018-10-30, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
- Location
- Between SEA and PDX.
- Gender
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
One obscure one I liked was Bahamut Lagoon, an SNES game that never made it into an official English translation, but there's an unofficial translated version online. It's a turn-based tactics RPG, where each of your heroes also controls a dragon that's its own unit and its own abilities that it can choose to do in combat. Where you can control the heroes, the dragons have their own AIs that you can help teach how to act based on general commands (Attack, Protect Me, etc) or feeding them items that design them around that playstyle (weapons make them angry, and more likely to attack in melee combat, books make them smarter and want to cast spell more, etc). The game also does a good job of using environmental interactions, such as casting Ice on a group of units, which also turns the nearby water into a makeshift frozen bridge for the next few turns, similar to what some turn-based strategy games are only now implementing. On top of that, combat between units when they attacked took place in a pseudo Turn-based JRPG format, where each "tactical unit" was made up of a group of "JRPG" units, causing a further element to plan around when determining to use a single target vs. AoE attack. The game seems like it took a lot of elements from another, less obscure game, Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen.
Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2018-10-30 at 02:11 PM.
5th Edition Homebrewery
Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!
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2018-10-30, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Gender
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
I loved Bahamut Lagoon. Fan translation was awesome.
Blaster Master: Blasting Again, a PS1 entry into the Franchise that was... early 3D. A fun game but very much called back to it's Nintendo Hard routes with almost no guides around.
Legend of Dragoon. It's simultaneously well known and pretty obscure. Definitely a cult following I guess. Turn based combat, but attack patterns required button press inputs and some enemies could counter, with longer attacks late in the game becoming harder, but also allowing for multiple counter points. Plus it had an epic story.I am trying out LPing. Check out my channel here: Triaxx2
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2018-10-30, 10:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
One game I never hear about is Return Fire. It was a strange combination of puzzle game/capture the flag with single and two-player modes. You had certain numbers and types of vehicles to perform basically a reverse tower-defense scenario. Enemy bases had turrets that could shoot your vehicles down and destructible walls that you needed to breach in order to find a flag, which you then had to capture with a basic jeep/humvee type vehicle. I remember a helicopter and a tank, but I think there were more vehicle types.
I played tons of it on the original Playstation, though now that I have the page up on Wikipedia I see it was also on PC and 3DO. I would love a modernized version of it with a map editor and community uploads.
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2018-10-31, 12:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2018
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
Hey Guys! I found a new upcoming board game. Hope you guys will found interesting. Have a look
DOOMSDAY: ATLANTIS
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2018-10-31, 02:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
Most of my favorite obscure games fall into "cult classic" territory, so "that nobody's heard of" might be a bit much... But here goes:
Carrier Command: A really fun early 3D simulation strategy game where you control one of two automated battle carriers converted into a science research platform, and have to use your carrier to take down the more advanced second carrier, which had been hacked by terrorists. At some point the game had its name stolen and used for some awful looking sci-fi novel product placement game that's on Steam.
Starglider 2: Starfox's big brother, made by the same team before they went to work for Nintendo and made the SuperFX chip. The Super FX story is fairly well known at this point, but Starglider 2 is an absolutely awesome sandbox game. You get to fly around an entire solar system freely, and basically run a fedex quest to help rebels build a weapon you can use against an enemy super-dreadnaught of some sort. Sadly I was too young to understand the game way back when and never beat it. I keep meaning to go back and finish it, but there's never enough time.
Live A Live: Calling this obscure is probably a stretch as it is a Squaresoft RPG, but it doesn't get anywhere near enough love. This game was an experiment in genre blurring gameplay mechanics and in my opinion turned out much better than most of Square's failed experiments. Lots of interesting mechanics like tactical movement in combat and it managed a very interesting Dragon Quest deconstructing meta-plot.
Royal Stone: Imagine Sega made an S/RPG that wasn't Shining Force. Now imagine they made it on the Gamegear, made it look like an end of life SNES squaresoft RPG, and let it die in obscurity as a Japanese only title for no apparent reason. This game is surprisingly good, and while it's no Thracia 776, does a lot of interesting things with the combat side of things. It has good art, and again, it looks like an end of life SNES game despite being on the Gamegear. The second game of the Arliel series, the first game came out in English as Crystal Warriors. Although it doesn't look nearly as good, it had most of the same mechanics.
Treasure of the Rudras: Octopath Traveler claims to be a spiritual successor to FF6, but it is actually a spiritual successor to Rudra no Hihou. Has a super fun magic system where you can just make up your own spells. Sadly it was too big and too late in the SNES' life to make it to the states.
I'll also give D&D Shadows over Mystara another shoutout, although it's not obscure. Played that game with some friends on steam until we were sick of it. This game needs a sequel so bad.
Crystalis: Cult classic, not that obscure, but it deserves a place on any list.
Metal Combat: Falcon's Revenge: The most fun light gun game Nintendo has ever made.
Metal Marines: While on the note of giant robot games, this was a really fun Japanese made Windows 3.1 RTS game that was dramatically different than all of its peers. The SNES port got some attention, but if you ever get a chance, play the original in a Windows 3.1 emulation setup. The experience is very unique and the game design is pretty good.
Castle of the Winds: If you had Windows 3.1 and played shareware game packs, this game was probably your first introduction to Roguelikes. Really solid roguelike, has a strong fan community.
Wild ARMs XF: Popular series, but this ends up being an obscure PSP exclusive spinoff game in the franchise. I loved this game back when I found it in 2010, it was amazing, I've recently started streaming it because the FFT 1.3.8 hack ticked me off and I wanted to show off what a well designed "FFT but harder" game looks like. Uses hexes instead of tiles to great effect.
Berwick Saga: Another Hex based S/RPG. I've talked about it in some other threads like this before. Really fun and hard, last I saw it was finally getting a fan translation, although I've no idea how close to completion the project is.Last edited by Alent; 2018-10-31 at 03:30 AM.
My Homebrew A Return to Exile, a homebrew campaign setting.
Under Construction: Skills revamp for the Campaign Setting. I need to make a new index thread.
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2018-10-31, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
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- Western Maryland
- Gender
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
I loved NetStorm, but I never got to play the full version, only a slightly hacked demo that gave me a little more of the game than the standard demo(but I played the hell out of that demo, over and over again). Heck, I'd play it now if Steam or GOG released it, just to see how the memory holds up.
Edit: To add to this list, I present The Adventures of Willy Beamish(I'm not 100% on the title). It's a point and click puzzle game where you roam around your house and outside, though I don't quite remember what the story was. I specifically remember having to fight a vampire and not figuring out I had to use the vacuum cleaner to suck it up when it was a bat until I had died to it like 20x over(minimum).Last edited by Starwulf; 2018-10-31 at 08:20 PM.
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2018-10-31, 03:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- Germany
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
I really enjoyed playing Rent-a-Hero, which i think came at the tail end of the point and click adventure glut. Not sure if it was a good adventure, but it had that cartoony, gold and pink lighting look that was a thing at the time and that somehow really worked for me.
Last edited by Yora; 2018-10-31 at 03:45 AM.
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2018-10-31, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
For a couple games that people will really not know (unless you're British and over the age of 30): Games from the venerable BBC Micro!
Stryker's Run - an early Contra-style sidescroller with pilotable vehicles and aircraft. I spent far too much time playing this when I was 4 years old.
Palace of Magic - an early Metroidvania-style game where you gain access to different parts of the palace by gathering items from various areas in it. For example, you have to get a bowl from one area, bring it to a water source in another, in order to put out a lake of fire in a third. All while platforming about and dodging enemies. Very difficult, never beat it, but it helped form my love of videogames.Last edited by Rodin; 2018-10-31 at 05:18 PM.
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2018-11-01, 02:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
Heck, if we're going back that far then I'd have to throw a couple of Spectrum games into the mix:
Strangeloop - You're a chap in a space suit trying to shut down an automated robot factory, but oddly enough, the enemy isn't robots, it's flying pieces of razor-sharp swarf that cut your suit and cause leaks that deplete your limited oxygen supply. Never actually finished the game, but still remember it very fondly.
Skool Daze - you're a boy in a school who has to steal his report from the headmaster's safe and forge the results so you don't get in trouble with your parents. The thing about the game is that you had regular lessons that you had to attend, and instead of health you had lines--get too many lines and you'd be expelled from school and lose the game.
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2018-11-01, 03:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
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- Secret Lair on Sol c
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Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
I think I'm going to top everyone...
The Apprentice - Probably the least bad game on the massive Failure of the Philips CD-i ... A difficult vertical platformer, with a quite distinct and cute visuals.
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2018-11-01, 06:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
Hey, I worked on a couple of CD-i games, you dissing me?
Seriously, I did actually work on games for that platform, and the experience just told me that it was not designed for gaming in any way, shape or form. The fact anybody managed to produce anything halfway playable from it is amazing.
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2018-11-01, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
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- Between SEA and PDX.
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Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
I actually played the Zelda game that everyone disses on (I think it was bugged, as most walkthroughs hinted at progressing further when I couldn't), and a Mario Hotel game that was fun. Definitely not designed for gaming, but I applaud you for the amazing effort it must have took.
Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2018-11-01 at 11:34 AM.
5th Edition Homebrewery
Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!
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2018-11-03, 03:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Gender
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
I got a couple people haven't mentioned yet.
- Lagoon (Sharp x6800/SNES): an action/adventure game, in the vein of Legend of Zelda and the Soul Blazer trilogy (which also has Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma), with tons of RPG elements. You play as Nasir, a young warrior tasked with traveling to the eponymous Lagoon castle to figure why the waters of the world have gone foul. As you go, you realize a few secrets, while you conquer the dungeons and castles, fighting monsters and whatnot. The difficulty is insane (your hitbox is laughably small, which isn't so bad for monsters but brutal when dealing with bosses; you get awesome spells, but can't use them in boss battles, and you can only get one copy of each healing item, which you can't get anymore after a certain point...oh, and it has top-view platforming), but it has awesome music, and the twist right near the end isn't half bad.
- Zaxxon (multiplatform): a shmup, one of the first ones, known for being one of the first few with isometric view. You move your ship in semi-3D, passing stages to face the alien Zaxxon. Alongside the better known Donkey Kong, Pac-Man and Combat, this was one of the first games I truly loved, when I was a wee child. Played it on the Atari, years after the Video Game Crash.
- Legend of Mana (PSX): one of the lesser-loved entries in the Mana series, but still recognizable enough. It changes a few aspects of the Mana series, such as the entire combat system, the magic system, and...well, it's almost an entirely different game. You play as one of two teenagers (a boy or a girl), who are tasked by the Fairy of the Mana Tree to reconstruct the world. As you do, you start unraveling the story within the world, doing various sidequests and dealing with three main quests (a fight between two Dragoons and their servants, the plea of a Shrine Maiden and a former friend of hers, and the last members of a dying race being hunted for their "cores", which resemble jewels - this last one is arguably the most depressing storyline ever), until you reach the Mana Tree. It's unique in that the positioning of each land influences the rest, and can make enemies stronger, items in towns much, much better, and so forth. Plus, the music is awesome (of course, it was composed by Yoko Shimomura, and if you don't know who she is, you...probably haven't played a Square game recently. Or old-school Capcom games, as she belonged to Alph Lyra, the company game BGM group).
- The Dark Spire (DS): a throw-back to old-school dungeon crawlers like Wizardry and the first few Might & Magic games, as well as Basic D&D. The plot is bare-bones: a wizard called Tyrfing stole the Sword of Light and climbed the eponymous Dark Spire, and it's up to you and your team to climb the tower. If you like Wizardry and other dungeon crawlers, it's a great game with awesome music. Sadly, it didn't get a sequel, compared to games on a similar time frame (Etrian Odyssey, Class of Heroes).
- Syndicate (PC/SNES): a cyberpunk/heist game with hints of conspiracy theory. As you know, most cyberpunk games focus on the rebels (Shadowrun has the shadowrunners, Cyberpunk focuses on the down-on-their-luck warriors and criminals) fighting against the corporations. Syndicate turns that around; you play as an executive, using your corporate agents to do missions on behalf of your corporate masters. You control four agents, each of which you can upgrade with cybernetics and weaponry you research (and pay for), and you can get new agents by "recruiting" (more like instant brainwashing by hacking into their mind chips). There was a sequel, Syndicate Wars, where the corporation has to face a cult trying to take over the world...after you took over, that is. A nice turnaround to the cyberpunk genre, since few games let you play as the corporates.
Retooler of D&D 3.5 (and 5e/Next) content. See here for more.
Now with a comprehensive guide for 3.5 Paladin players porting to Pathfinder. Also available for 5th Edition
On Lawful Good:
T.G. Oskar profile by Specter.
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2018-11-03, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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- Toledo, Ohio
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Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
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2018-11-04, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
- Location
- Germany
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
I actually never heard of most of the games here. That's quite impressive, in a way.
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2018-11-05, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Back forty.
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Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
A Blurred Line.
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2018-11-05, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
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- Raleigh, NC
- Gender
Re: What are your favorite games that nobody's heard of?
Playground Marco Polo
This works best on a large piece of playground equipment, something that has multiple platforms and slides and perhaps some monkey-bars connecting different parts. Since so much involves the honor system (and the potential for hurting oneself is pretty high), it's best played with a mature group of friends that trust each other & aren't jerks. Also after hours when you're the only people who want to use the playground.
One person is "It", and moves around as quickly as they feel safe with their eyes closed, trying to tag any of the other players, who then becomes It. Usually, the most mobile/sober player stays nearby to tell them if they're about to hurt themselves (I prefer a one-syllable safe word, like "STOP" or "BAR" or "STAIR"). People generally can't climb very well with their eyes closed, so this isn't as big a disadvantage as you might think.
A "fish out of water" rule works best- if someone is out of the "pool" and It get the whole phrase out of their mouth before they're back in, they've been caught.
Popful Mail (Sega CD/Working Designs version)
A fantasy platformer with hilarious writing, surprisingly good voice acting, and devilish difficulty. Generally, there's entirely different dialogue for each of the characters, which is the real joy of the game, but the boss battles & exploration are pretty dang fun too.
You have 3 characters you can switch between freely, who use (in order of appearance) swords & boomerangs, staves, and claws & breath weapons. Your down-on-her-luck bounty hunter gets caught up in a quest to save the world, and meets this guy. And you can get through the whole thing in about 8 hours if you don't die too often.
Princess Tomato in the Salad Kingdom (NES)
An adventure game retelling of the 1917 Russian Revolution using sapient fruits & vegetables & the occasional giant robot. It looks cute and cheery, but even at age 8 I could tell it was dark as (redacted). After most of the royal family is killed and Princess Tomato is taken hostage to act as a puppet leader, the last loyal retainer (Sir Cucumber) must rescue her from the evil minister and the farmies, who trying to use eachother as they fight to establish their power. See too-old fruits shipped of too gulags, undesirable vegetables disappeared by the secret police, and money become only usable at the black market, all while being followed by a cheery young persimmon who can't swim but will remember details for you in case you need that hint from 3 chapters back.If it's not obvious, insert a after my post.