Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 31 to 39 of 39
  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Honest Tiefling's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: The DM who says yes too much

    I'm laying the blame on the players. Some groups really do work as a test of skill between DM and players, where they have a agreed upon ruleset and try to outsmart each other. This probably wouldn't work for most people.

    The problem isn't the DM saying yes, the problem is that the players aren't using this to expand upon the setting, to make cool moments for the group or anything beneficial, but trying to oppose the DM. For instance, Lizard Druid guy mentioned above didn't seem like he wanted to be overpowered, but have some cool flavor while not being useless. If the view of the players is to break the game or to get one past the DM which isn't the sort of game the DM wants then I think some serious discussion needs to go on.

    'Yes, but...' only works if the DM isn't swamped and doesn't have to constantly worry about the player's intentions, and most importantly, enjoys the extra work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oko and Qailee View Post
    Man, I like this tiefling.
    For all of your completely and utterly honest needs. Zaydos made, Tiefling approved.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The DM who says yes too much

    Generally, I don't think DM's saying "yes" is a huge problem, as long as that "yes" means "you can try".

    Players changing their cantrips because they aren't happy with their current ones should be shrugged off, that's minor stuff, kind of like a fighter changing his weapon of choice and it's between the DM and that player. If a specific player does this frequently, maybe some manner of halting should be put in place, but it's generally not worth getting stressed out over.

    Meanwhile, if a player wants to leap a 20 foot gap between two buildings while somersaulting, then "you can try" really comes into effect and the DM can require a roll for that to pass. I think the rules otherwise are fairly clear on what goes and what does not.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: The DM who says yes too much

    Honestly, I don't think I've ever run into a DM who said no too often. Probably the worst experience I've had was with a group of new players who were very pushy to the first time DM, who usually caves if you pester him insistently enough. It was like dealing with rules lawyers who won't let anything go except they weren't even arguing from a rules pov, just...arguing a lot. Usually by picking up some aspect of their backstory and trying to convince the DM that it was relevant here and should give them some mechanical effect. It made running the game more stressful for the DM, and slowed the game down for everyone else. The constant concessions to them made it less fun for me, and if I ever voiced my opinion on it they would argue with me, which obviously made the game less fun for me. Eventually the game fell apart.
    DMs need to reclaim the word no.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Jay R's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The DM who says yes too much

    The problem is having an answer you prefer to give before knowing what the question is.

    Consider two players. One keeps making reasonable requests, and the other keeps asking for the absurd. Giving them both the same answer is unfair -- and giving inconsistent answers.

    As a DM, I'm trying to run a self-consistent, rational world. When a player asks for something, the answer is "yes" if it makes sense within the mechanics of the world, and "no" if it does not fit within the mechanics of that world.

    I prefer to say "yes" most of the time, but that statement is semantically equivalent to saying I prefer for my players to make reasonable requests.

    If the player is getting too many "no" answers, that's because of the questions he's asking.
    Last edited by Jay R; 2018-11-05 at 09:59 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Thinker's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The DM who says yes too much

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    But it's important to understand the original context of it.

    A DMs job includes world design/mechanics selecting, and adjudicating actions.

    Not saying no didn't have anything to do with what fits in the world vs what mechanical selections a player chooses to make when designing their characters. It was about adjudication.

    The mantra to not say no, as opposed to "no, but ..." And "yes, and ..." or whatever the jargon is now, is supposed to apply to how you respond to a players declared actions during a session. Not to just shut them down and tell them things won't work. At the minimum give them alternatives.
    I can agree with this. It's a mechanism to provide players options and to further encourage creative thinking while working within the framework the group agreed to in the beginning. You won't let a player jump off a cliff and fly, but you might allow a player to invent a glider, depending on resources and time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    Obviously that's just as much a load of nonsense as allowing players to make whatever mechanical choices they want. Some things won't work. And when the player asks if they can blah blah, the appropriate response is "there's no way that will work." And allowing it will break everyone's suspension of disbelief, even in a elf & magic game.

    That said, what blah blah is varies heavily from table to table. I've seen a poster write about how they did a flying leap onto the back of a dragon, stabbed it with their daggers, and used them as handlebars to steer it. If you tried that last part in a game I was running I'd laugh, and then when I realized you were serious I'd laugh harder. But clearly it worked for that table.
    It doesn't need to be said that players shouldn't be allowed to violate the rules, tone, or physical properties of the game. That's pretty self-intuitive.
    "Only I may walk in the shadow between realms. Though I go mad, I do so to awaken those who came before and shall once more come again."

    "Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it." ~ Mark Twain

    - Fair Use has a Posse -

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Troll in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: The DM who says yes too much

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    'Yes, but...' only works if the DM isn't swamped and doesn't have to constantly worry about the player's intentions, and most importantly, enjoys the extra work.
    My usual DM has gotten to saying "yes... but my allowing it here doesn't mean it'll always work if you figure out something broken."

    So he'd allow us something creative or cool, but if we tried to pull shenanigans with it later on, he'd be fine breaking internal consistency of the game to keep us from breaking the game itself.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The DM who says yes too much

    We have a player that often asks if he can play Chaotic Lawful, so "no" is definitely sometimes necessary.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2018

    Default Re: The DM who says yes too much

    I wonder what cantrips you have said yes too....please post.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Jay R's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The DM who says yes too much

    I have no control over how often I say ďYesĒ or ďNoĒ. That depends entirely on the questions, which depend entirely on the questioner.

    No, Glen, you canít buy a pistol. Itís a medieval world. Your character has never heard of a pistol

    Yes, Rob, you can buy a sword.

    No, Glen, you canít buy a rifle, even described as a "crossbow without the bow, that throws pellets by burning gunpowder". There is no gunpowder in this world.

    Yes, Rob, you can buy a bastard sword. This is a small village, though, and the local smith is better at horseshoes. You might want to wait until you get to a larger town.

    No, Glen, you canít buy a grenade. Explosives donít exist.

    Yes, Rob, you can buy a greatsword. The local smith said he's never made one before. I urge you to buy one in a large city.

    Yes, Glen, you can ask the wizard for a magical rifle. He offers you a wand of magic missiles.


    The player who keeps pushing for what doesn't exist will keep getting a "No".

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •