Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2018

    Default Alignment scale 5e

    I know that strictly speaking there is no functional change with alignment but i am curious if the alignments exist on a scale.

    I have a character who is without a doubt Lawful Good at the start of his background (scholar). His wife and daughter are murdered. Joins the army in an attempt to get away from his pain...only finds more pain and a thirst for revenge. I believe at this point his alignment has shifted

    Coming back home with revenge his only desire it is snatched from him and in his despair he accepts the offer of a fiend to become a warlock. When he next leaves the house he has a renewed sense of purpose towards his goal of revenge against the people/system who let him down (think Law Abiding Citizen).

    His focus is on the the murderers -2, judge, corrupt crowns guard?, political benefactor (maybe a couple of others but i don't know the judicial system), but i think that he will become more accepting of collateral damage as he makes his way thru his list and thats not even considering what the fiend may require in return.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Knaight's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleG View Post
    I know that strictly speaking there is no functional change with alignment but i am curious if the alignments exist on a scale.

    I have a character who is without a doubt Lawful Good at the start of his background (scholar). His wife and daughter are murdered. Joins the army in an attempt to get away from his pain...only finds more pain and a thirst for revenge. I believe at this point his alignment has shifted

    Coming back home with revenge his only desire it is snatched from him and in his despair he accepts the offer of a fiend to become a warlock. When he next leaves the house he has a renewed sense of purpose towards his goal of revenge against the people/system who let him down (think Law Abiding Citizen).

    His focus is on the the murderers -2, judge, corrupt crowns guard?, political benefactor (maybe a couple of others but i don't know the judicial system), but i think that he will become more accepting of collateral damage as he makes his way thru his list and thats not even considering what the fiend may require in return.
    You can change alignment just fine, and this character sounds like the sort of person who absolutely would see that change - probably in two directions.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

    I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that.
    -- ChubbyRain

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Clistenes's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Monte Cook uses an alignment scale:

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Monte Cook uses a gradation for Evil/Good and Chaos/Law:

    Level of Good
    1 Doesn’t like to see bad things happen to others
    2 Helps others occasionally, particularly friends
    3 Willing to help strangers on occasion
    5 Gives of himself to help others, whether it be time, money, possessions, or something else
    7 Takes concepts like purity, innocence, and other higher principles very seriously
    8 Would sacrifice anything, even his life, for others in a heartbeat
    9 Refuses to harm anything or anyone, even if it brings misfortune or death on himself

    Level of Evil
    -1 Finds joy in the misfortune of others, but usually wouldn’t act to hurt others
    -2 Willing to cause others pain or misfortune to better himself
    -3 Actively enjoys lying, stealing, and inflicting pain on others
    -4 Willing to cause harm even to friends to get ahead
    -5 Willing to kill to better himself
    -7 Will kill for the sheer pleasure of bringing pain and death to others
    -9 Hates life, goodness, and light and does everything in his power to destroy them

    Level of Law
    1 Generally tries to keep his promises and, when in doubt, follows the rules
    2 Has a set of guidelines he generally lives by
    3 Genuinely respects authority figures for their positions
    4 Willing to see one person killed or hurt if it helps large numbers of people
    5 Willing to follow a code or a strict set of principles even if it brings misfortune on himself
    8 Would be willing to see many people harmed or killed if it helped society as a whole
    9 Follows a set path in such an orderly manner that it risks blind self-destruction. Despises and fears individuality.

    Level of Chaos
    -1 A bit of a nonconformist or free spirit
    -2 Will lie if it suits him, hates to be ordered around
    -3 Disorganized but extremely easygoing
    -5 Rejects the idea of majority rule
    -6 Would prefer anarchy to any other form of organization
    -7 Occasionally destroys things in reckless abandon
    -9 Hates structure and order so much that destruction for its own sake becomes desirable

    An individual needs a level of at least 2 or -2 to be considered Good/Evil/Lawful/Chaotic. Somebody with a level 1 of Good or Law or a level -1 of Evil or Chaos registers as Neutral to all alignment-detecting spells and effects.
    For reference, your average Paladin is Good 5 and Lawful 5...
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2018-11-03 at 05:45 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Superhero in the Playground Moderator
     
    Mark Hall's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    One of my favorite things to reference in cases like this is the Great Wheel cosmology.

    In the NW portion of the Great Wheel, you have Lawful Good... the Seven Heavens are Pure Lawful and Pure Good. Slightly south of the Seven Heavens is Arcadia, which is Pure Lawful, and slightly less good... its inhabitants might be LG or LN. Slightly east of the Seven Heavens are the Twin Paradises, which is Pure Good, but slightly less Lawful. Its inhabitants might be LG or NG.

    Every alignment is a spectrum. Lots of True Neutral druids tend a bit Lawful and Good, because they live within a society and are generally helpful to the people around them, even if it's not in a completely altruistic way. Others tend Chaotic and Evil, because while they embrace balance, their idea of balance involves dismantling society, even if it hurts some people.
    The Cranky Gamer
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
    *Savage Scrolls: A Savage Worlds/Elder Scrolls Conversion
    *The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
    Avatar is from local user Mehangel
    API Anthology 1 from Drivethru RPG.
    If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2018

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Monte Cook uses an alignment.
    Very interesting if not disturbing for my character as it indicates that at least at his purist intent he will be chaotic evil (7/7). His everyday actions would not be but certainly he could be at times.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Tanarii's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    5e doesnt have Law vs Chaos and Good vs Evil as partiularly meaningful to Alignments, in terms of seperate concepts on crossing axis defining the alignment, as previous editions. Each alignment is given its own single sentence individual associated behavior.

    Of course can still see the clear trends / commonalities between the associated behaviors of the Lawful alignments or Chaotic Alignments etc. But they are provided as 9 whole packages, not a coordinate system of two crossed axis.

    Also, nothing in 5e says a player cant choose to change their PC Alignment when they want to. And outside of a few specific circumstances, there isnt anything to recommend that a DM can force a player to change their PC alignment either. It can easily be viewed as the domain of the player, and RP tool for their use.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Fighting Demons!

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    5e doesnt have Law vs Chaos and Good vs Evil as partiularly meaningful to Alignments, in terms of seperate concepts on crossing axis defining the alignment, as previous editions. Each alignment is given its own single sentence individual associated behavior.

    Of course can still see the clear trends / commonalities between the associated behaviors of the Lawful alignments or Chaotic Alignments etc. But they are provided as 9 whole packages, not a coordinate system of two crossed axis.

    Also, nothing in 5e says a player cant choose to change their PC Alignment when they want to. And outside of a few specific circumstances, there isnt anything to recommend that a DM can force a player to change their PC alignment either. It can easily be viewed as the domain of the player, and RP tool for their use.
    I did have a DM tell a player that "After that, you're no longer CG. You're CN."

    And, while I feel that it was a little excessive, it didn't REALLY matter. Virtually nothing procs off alignment in 5E, so it literally just required him to erase Good and put Neutral. That's it.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

    Current Avatar by AsteriskAmp, who is awesome!

    Spoiler: Former Avatars
    Show
    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Professor Gnoll!
    Show


    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Cdr. Fallout!
    Show

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Monte Cook uses an alignment scale:
    There seems to be some entries missing, like good 4, or evil 8.
    My D&D 5th ed. Druid Handbook

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2018

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Yeah just spotted that too

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Clistenes's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Quote Originally Posted by hymer View Post
    There seems to be some entries missing, like good 4, or evil 8.
    The table Monte Cook gave was incomplete too. It is supposed to work as general guidelines in order to know where to put a character in the alignment scale...

    A -2 Evil character may raise the rent to a poor family; a -7 character will kidnap, torture and kill children if they can get away with it... A Paladin using Detect Evil would react very differently to both...
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2018-11-05 at 09:35 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    . A Paladin using Detect Evil would react very differently to both...
    That depends on how sensitive the spell is. It may not be able to tell the difference between -1 Evil and -7 Evil.
    Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
    New Marut Avatar by Linkele

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Mid-Rohan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    That depends on how sensitive the spell is. It may not be able to tell the difference between -1 Evil and -7 Evil.
    The 3.5 version DOES say that you can discern the relative strength of the auras, but it seems to be referring to what level the evil cleric is compared to the one casting the spell.

    It's unclear if using an optional alignment scale would also register in the aura.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Some play RPG's like chess, some like charades.

    Everyone has their own jam.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Orc in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2018

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    What if you do super bad things but you also do super good things on the whole and most think you're a good guy... who does bad things.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Pleh View Post
    The 3.5 version DOES say that you can discern the relative strength of the auras, but it seems to be referring to what level the evil cleric is compared to the one casting the spell.
    Nope - it just refers to level of target only.

    Whether you are 1st level or 51st level doesn't matter - a 51 Hit Dice evil-aligned creature will radiate an Overwhelming aura of Evil:

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm

    however, if you are Good, and have half (or less than half) the Hit Dice/level of the generator of the Overwhelming aura, you will be stunned by it.
    Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
    New Marut Avatar by Linkele

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Mid-Rohan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Um.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD (that you linked)
    3rd Round
    The power and location of each aura.

    Aura Power
    An evil aura’s power depends on the type of evil creature or object that you’re detecting and its HD, caster level, or (in the case of a cleric) class level; see the accompanying table. If an aura falls into more than one strength category, the spell indicates the stronger of the two.
    That's pretty much what it says. An Evil Cleric's Aura is based on their class level.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Some play RPG's like chess, some like charades.

    Everyone has their own jam.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    I thought you were saying that level compared to caster of spell, matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pleh View Post
    it seems to be referring to what level the evil cleric is compared to the one casting the spell.

    The point I was trying to make is that Aura Strength of a cleric of a given level, is always the same. It doesn't matter if the caster of the Detect Evil spell is 1st level or 20th level - a 5th level cleric will always have an aura of the same strength.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2018-11-05 at 01:41 PM.
    Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
    New Marut Avatar by Linkele

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Clistenes's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Nope - it just refers to level of target only.

    Whether you are 1st level or 51st level doesn't matter - a 51 Hit Dice evil-aligned creature will radiate an Overwhelming aura of Evil:

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm

    however, if you are Good, and have half (or less than half) the Hit Dice/level of the generator of the Overwhelming aura, you will be stunned by it.
    Monte Cook's Sword & Sorcery system uses slightly different rules than standard 3.5; I'm not sure, but I think their Paladins could sense your Evil scale rank in addition or instead of your character level... I would have to seek the books...

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Mid-Rohan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    The point I was trying to make is that Aura Strength of a cleric of a given level, is always the same. It doesn't matter if the caster of the Detect Evil spell is 1st level or 20th level - a 5th level cleric will always have an aura of the same strength.
    Point taken.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Some play RPG's like chess, some like charades.

    Everyone has their own jam.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2018

    Default Re: Alignment scale 5e

    Every alignment is a spectrum. Lots of True Neutral druids tend a bit Lawful and Good, because they live within a society and are generally helpful to the people around them, even if it's not in a completely altruistic way. Others tend Chaotic and Evil, because while they embrace balance, their idea of balance involves dismantling society, even if it hurts some people.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •