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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default I think I might be done

    I'm struggling with the idea of quitting the hobby

    So much of the magic that attracted me to D&D and tabletop roleplaying in the first place seems to have disappeared from the hobby over the years. I don't know if it's because I'm jaded from experience, or something about the games has changed, but that old spark has become harder and harder to ignite.

    It used to be that, as a DM, I could throw my players into an encounter with a monster and the reactions would be genuine and exciting. They would approach a group of goblins with the same caution and anticipation as a dragon. Now....now if I drop a handful of goblins in front of a group of 1st-2nd level PCs, the players charge in with no hesitation because they know goblins are weak monsters. Even when, by all rights, their characters have never faced a goblin and have no idea what they are capable of, the players know and it influences their decisions.

    There was a time I could put a powerful monster in a low-level dungeon, and the players would spend long minutes wondering if they could take it. What tactics they could try. Now...now they take one look and turn away because they know it's above their level. Even if they don't mean to meta-game, they still know and it influences how they act.

    The very fundamentals of how most players play the game have changed. They play it safe, only taking on challenges they KNOW they can win, and they EXPECT to win every time. If they don't win, they get upset because they didn't get to be the hero they wanted. They complain that it was unfair. That the monster were too high a level for them. That they didn't get the loot they should have.

    I feel like it's a reflection of the "me first" entitled society the world has become.

    I digress. This is all irrelevant and only a small part of how I feel. I am aware that likely, not all players share these traits. I am aware there are ways to mitigate these problems and find solutions.

    But...I'm tired. I don't have the energy to fight the tide any more. The fire in my soul that had me spending long hours drawing dungeon maps and writing stories has dimmed and guttered. All that's left is a dull warmth, reminding me of the fun I used to have.

    Even when I can fan the flames enough to put together an adventure, as soon as I see the characters my players have brought to the table, the fire goes out again. I see it over and over. PCs built to be main characters, not part of a team. Everyone can wield a sword and cast spells and pick locks. No one is specialized anymore. Why play a fighter at first level, when you can play a spellsong dance weaver of shadows, or a star warlock of the holy axe, or whatever other ridiculous hybrid uber class that will grant you all the powers and abilities it used to take hard work to earn?

    I'm tired, and I think I might be done...
    but I don't want to be....

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Knowledge breeds contempt. You know how it is: The moment your players kill their first dragon, using those loses its charm and mystique. (The trick is to actually never have them fight a dragon...)

    Basically, IŽd say that you're actually suffering from two problems at a time.

    First, modern D&D, starting with 3E, has moved from the old school roots to empowering players (and, by extension, their characters) more and more, which can be fun but also robs the game of a lot of tension, mainly tension created be the unknown and fear of losing.

    Second, certain systems put a premium on system mastery. Once a player has attained that, it tends to suck the fun out of a game if not handled correctly and a lot go gms actually don't see the point in "ramping up their game" to be on the same level and design scenarios/encounters for full effect.

    Personally, at this point, IŽd actually either start recruiting fresh gamers with no RPG experience, if you want to continue with D&D, or switch system to have a "reset" with your current players, for example, from D&D to Shadow of the Demon Lord or Legend of the Five Rings.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    The issues I see are:

    1. You are running the stock setting, and your players know what is in it already. Simply reskinning everything would resolve this; goblins becoming ant people, dragons as giant hell wasps, etc.

    2. You have classic DM burnout. This is best resolved by taking a break from DMing and either being a player character or just taking some time off.

    3. You don't like game optimization. For this no one can really help you except to point out that it really has no effects on roleplaying. People playing Cleric Malconvokers in 3.5 were just as into roleplaying as the Warlock/Bard multiclasser who couldn't do much but be invisible.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    I've been feeling much the same. As a player. I just feel we have done everything, ya know? In several games, in fact. And I am **** as a GM, soooo...

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    If your player know too much about the monsters they're facing, then it's time for a little homebrew. Not necessarily write your own monsters, just a little tweaking might prove sufficient. Have them face goblins with the template of Hobgoblin Warlords. A very powerful monster that isn't immediately hostile, but wants to bargain for something. Look up Tucker's Kobolds and have fun with that. Change things around enough to throw them off, so they can't assess a situation before combat. It should make them look at monsters differently.

    What you could also try is another game system. I haven't tried many yet, but I did have a few sessions using FATE that I really enjoyed. You could look into such other systems and see if a change of scenery sparks your enthusiasm again.

    There's just one thing that I found a bit strange:

    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
    They play it safe, only taking on challenges they KNOW they can win, and they EXPECT to win every time. If they don't win, they get upset because they didn't get to be the hero they wanted. They complain that it was unfair. That the monster were too high a level for them. That they didn't get the loot they should have.
    I don't know what kind of players you have around you, but to me this sounds nothing like the players I know (not only those I play with, but also other friends). If this is the kind of players you have, then you may want to look at other people to play with.
    Just remember... if the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    I see a lot of suggestions to try a new system.

    I've toyed with the idea a bit and have looked rather extensively at Mutants & Masterminds. I'm not extremely keen on a superhero game, but I can see the system being used for other types of settings.

    I've also got books for Savage Worlds and True 20, but I haven't studied them enough that I would feel comfortable running them.

    I also see people suggesting I find a new group. That just isn't possible. There are no other players in my area. My best bet would probably be online, which is one of the reasons I joined these forums.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
    I'm struggling with the idea of quitting the hobby
    You have the right to take a break. Just don't go away with the mentality "I'm quitting forever". You may be just missing an a group of player adequate to you.

    So much of the magic that attracted me to D&D and tabletop roleplaying in the first place seems to have disappeared from the hobby over the years. I don't know if it's because I'm jaded from experience, or something about the games has changed, but that old spark has become harder and harder to ignite.
    Games change as the people who plays it change. Video games are scientifically optimised to maximize the fun of their target audience. There is clear progress in term of game design, but it has some consequences on what players expect from games.

    It used to be that, as a DM, I could throw my players into an encounter with a monster and the reactions would be genuine and exciting. They would approach a group of goblins with the same caution and anticipation as a dragon. Now....now if I drop a handful of goblins in front of a group of 1st-2nd level PCs, the players charge in with no hesitation because they know goblins are weak monsters. Even when, by all rights, their characters have never faced a goblin and have no idea what they are capable of, the players know and it influences their decisions.
    On this particular exemple, you are subject to a culture clash. Goblins in modern culture are comic relief, easy to kill, that have a fair chance to kill themselves with their own weapons while trying to attack you. At least, that's what your players expect (maybe in a less extreme way), and that's what they think their character know about them. By using old-style goblins, you are deviating from what players know and expect about goblins. (That's why I prefer hobgoblins, the players rarely have an idea of what is supposed to be an hobgoblin.)

    There was a time I could put a powerful monster in a low-level dungeon, and the players would spend long minutes wondering if they could take it. What tactics they could try. Now...now they take one look and turn away because they know it's above their level. Even if they don't mean to meta-game, they still know and it influences how they act.
    Or they will blindly run to their death by attacking it, thinking that "if it is here, that mean we have the level to kill it".
    Unless said otherwise, the players will not consider there is a choice to be done. They will consider that there is an expected behavior by the DM, and if they don't follow it they will be punished (no loot, death, ...).
    My main DM is usually quite honest when there is a choice to be done like that, by saying something like "you can either find a way to kill it, or avoid it", and it usually launch the tactical discussions you are expecting.

    The very fundamentals of how most players play the game have changed. They play it safe, only taking on challenges they KNOW they can win, and they EXPECT to win every time.
    This is mostly right. Failure is not something really present in modern gaming. (if you die, you reload)
    But this is something that can be changed, sometimes as easily as "By the way, don't expect to win everytime."

    If they don't win, they get upset because they didn't get to be the hero they wanted. They complain that it was unfair. That the monster were too high a level for them. That they didn't get the loot they should have.
    No they get upset because they feel betrayed by you, they feel that you broke the underlying promise of the game. If they take time into trying to win an encounter, only to see that they can't, they will consider this time as "wasted".

    I feel like it's a reflection of the "me first" entitled society the world has become.

    I digress. This is all irrelevant and only a small part of how I feel. I am aware that likely, not all players share these traits. I am aware there are ways to mitigate these problems and find solutions.

    But...I'm tired. I don't have the energy to fight the tide any more. The fire in my soul that had me spending long hours drawing dungeon maps and writing stories has dimmed and guttered. All that's left is a dull warmth, reminding me of the fun I used to have.

    Even when I can fan the flames enough to put together an adventure, as soon as I see the characters my players have brought to the table, the fire goes out again. I see it over and over. PCs built to be main characters, not part of a team. Everyone can wield a sword and cast spells and pick locks. No one is specialized anymore. Why play a fighter at first level, when you can play a spellsong dance weaver of shadows, or a star warlock of the holy axe, or whatever other ridiculous hybrid uber class that will grant you all the powers and abilities it used to take hard work to earn?

    I'm tired, and I think I might be done...
    but I don't want to be....
    Aside from taking a break, I seriously encourage you to do "one-shot scenario with pregenerated characters".

    Just look around you and look at what people take as a inspiration for a team of adventurers:
    + Either a "team" with a main character and few others (including a romantic interest and a comic relief)
    + Either a Avenger-like team: everyone is an autonomous hero that don't need help, but they team up against a greater threat.
    Even in video games where everyone has a "role", you are encouraged to be autonomous because your random team-mate may be dummies unable to do their job.
    Most people just don't know how to work in a team, trust your team-mate, ... And D&D may be the first time of their life they learn to do so.

    I'm personnaly part of the "new generation of DM". And the most valuable things I've learn were not "how to do worldbuilding", "how to create a scenario", or "how to role-play NPC correctly". It was "how to manipulate players into having a fun and intersting game", "how to force players to care about the other charaters of the team", ...

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    First suggestion is simple: Take a break. If you never have any urge to come back that is fine as well.

    Second suggestion is a bit more complicated: Maybe it is time to adjust your game. If you don't like the type of game you are playing now you can find a different type of game. And if you are willing to run that game it is even easier to find it.

    I mean the idea of just turning around because you aren't sure you can win is kind of strange to me. Trying other methods is one thing, but why are they fighting this monster in the first place? What is driving them forward? Maybe you need better stakes, ones the players care about and are willing to risk a (reasonable) chance of character death to save. That's one example, but you aren't in the inevitable end points of all games, there are things you can do to improve the game.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    As much as THEIR fun is the point of the game, YOUR fun is meant to be as well. You're just as entitled to run the game as you see fit as they are at having a reasonable chance of success.

    But there are even MORE ways to shake things up than changing systems and reskinning monsters (great suggestions, mind you). There are more ways to run encounters than through combat.

    First off, expand your monster base and look in other books than the core monster book. Next, don't tell them what it is unless they make their knowledge check. Instead, describe it with the audio/video appearance paragraph at the start of the monster entry.

    Have them sneak around a dreadful fiend's lair, shunt them off into a foreign plane of existence where they have to adapt to an unusual environment, have them chased by a monster they have no hope of defeating (and give them rewards for surviving), give them a death trap puzzle, give them a bored guardian who will let them pass if they play a game of riddles, have their quest giver trick them into helping the BBEG, have dungeon monsters polymophed or glamered to seem easier to beat than they are, run a social encounter in town (and give them encounter rewards), run a Defense or Escort quest where they can't choose their fights and must fend off whatever comes after them, attack their camp at night (if they never get attacked at night, their choice to set up a watch rotation was useless).

    They say, "give us adventures that are fair," and you say, "just because you didn't expect it doesn't mean it wasn't fair."
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Some play RPG's like chess, some like charades.

    Everyone has their own jam.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Aneurin's Avatar

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Is this a problem you're having in other systems, too? Or is it a D&D/d20 exclusive?


    Either way, I'm going to echo several other posts with 'take a break' and 'look at new systems'. Step right away from D&D and d20 in general and have a look at other systems with other resolution mechanics.

    In particular, given your problems, I'd recommend taking a look at Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e, which is a percentile-based system and pretty easy to learn. There really aren't any super-special careers, everyone starts out at the bottom of the heap - the best you'll get is starting as a squire or an apprentice wizard (which is something of a quick road to insanity), and at the other end of the spectrum you have rat-catchers, farmers and dung collectors. At no point is a group of goblins a negligible concern - even Champions, Knights and Wizard Lords find a spear to the guts is a spear to the guts if they don't watch it, though naturally they do become far less threatening as time goes by and better armour is located.

    Magic items are rare and special. Fights aren't in any way linked to mechanical advancement (e.g. you don't get experience for killing things), and best avoided or treated with care when possible. That said, dungeon crawls don't really work in WFRP and it's not very combat focused - damage adds up too quickly, and permanent injuries are a thing. Healing magic is very, very rare and non-magical healing slow.



    Oh, and if you're looking for an online platform then the Finding Players forum here is good for play-by-post games and has the odd live game, in the event you haven't found it yet. There's also Roll20 which caters to live gaming, featuring video, voice, or live text-based gaming at your option and features the occasional play-by-post. Fantasy Grounds also does live gaming, but I've never used it myself.
    Amazing Banshee avatar by Strawberries. Many, many thanks.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Darth Ultron's Avatar

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    The two suggestions of take a break or change games are both OK things to do. ...but not the only things you can do.

    I suggest:

    1.Being a Hard Person-This is simple enough, but few people do it. Just remove anyone toxic or that you don't like from your game (and your life). Things will be so much better if you do. So if someone shows up late or a game or tries and exploit in the game, just kick them out. Someone sits around playing on their phone, send them home where they can play on their phone all they want. And so on. Only keep people around that want to game as much as you do.

    2.Change Up the Game-Make a unique game play style and a set of house rules to support it. This is the best way to get a game exactly like you want. Some players won't like it and will leave, but some players will like it and stay. Again, you are only keeping around people that want to play the game like you do.

    3.Make your own Players-It can be true that a lot of the experienced players out and around are set in their ways, and will never change. So don't bother. Go for new players. Introduce the hobby to people. A great way to get a player that likes the same game style that you like is to teach that person your style while they are a blank slate. Also, not all experiences players are so set in their ways. A great many simply have never seen or even heard of any other way. Everyone they know plays the game in just one style, and maybe they don't like it themselves. This is the type of player you can convert to your play style.

    The above does take time and energy....but it is worth it in the long run.

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Jay R's Avatar

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    You're acting like you have a life-long decision to make. You don't.

    If it's no fun right now, then don't play right now. Maybe you'll decide to play again in six months, or a couple of years, or twenty years. If so, fine. If not, also fine.

    But today you're not deciding what you'll do twenty years from now. Today you're deciding what you will do today.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    This is burnout. Take a break.

    Maybe stop running games and become a player for a while or just take some break. I took a break where I played very little for 3-4 of years and came back revitalized.

    Changing systems and/or settings also help

    More drastic could be finding a new group. I found a group of newbies that were unspoilt and not jaded. It was funny to gauge their reactions to everything.
    Optimizing vs Roleplay
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    If roleplaying is no fun then stop doing it. Unless of course you are roleplaying at gunpoint then you should roleplay like your life depended on it.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Jay R's Avatar

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Also, you can fix the problem. The last game I played, I included the following in my introduction to the players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Introduction to D&D Campaign
    DO NOT assume that you know anything about any fantasy creatures. I will re-write many monsters and races, introduce some not in D&D, and eliminate some. The purpose is to make the world strange and mysterious. It will allow (require) PCs to learn, by trial and error, what works. Most of these changes I will not tell you in advance. Here are a couple, just to give you some idea what I mean.
    1. Dragons are not color-coded for the benefit of the PCs.
    2. Of elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, kobolds, goblins, and orcs, at least one does not exist, at least one is slightly different from the books, and at least one is wildly different.
    3. Several monsters have different alignments from the books.
    4. The name of an Undead will not tell you what will or won’t hurt it.
    5. The first time you see a member of a humanoid race, I will describe it as a “vaguely man-shaped creature.” This could be a kobold, an elf, or an Umber Hulk until you learn what they are.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Quote Originally Posted by Aneurin View Post
    Oh, and if you're looking for an online platform then the Finding Players forum here is good for play-by-post games and has the odd live game, in the event you haven't found it yet. There's also Roll20 which caters to live gaming, featuring video, voice, or live text-based gaming at your option and features the occasional play-by-post. Fantasy Grounds also does live gaming, but I've never used it myself.
    Thanks. I have found the recruitment board here and it is one of the reasons I joined.

    I'm thinking of starting up a game soon and trying out some new ideas I've had for a game. I'm hoping a slower pace and fresh players might help refresh my enthusiasm for the game.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
    I feel like it's a reflection of the "me first" entitled society the world has become.
    This statement shows that you have become jaded and look down on people for wanting different things and doing things differently than how it was done in "the good old days".

    I suggest a healthy amount of self reflection, before you turn into an old man yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    As others have suggested, I 'd try being a player for a while, preferably in a quick, simple system. But everything gets boring after a time; you might just need a break for 12 months. Put tabletop gaming out of your head for a while. You'll be back is my guess. See you in 2020.
    Last edited by Psikerlord; 2018-11-04 at 07:06 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    You need to trade in your veterans for rookies. If you can't change your group, I'd change the game.

    It's crazy how much more fun the game can be by switching from jaded veterans to fresh newcomers. You describe an Umber Hulk and the players actually say "Damn..what is that? That seems really tough.." as opposed to "...Umber Hulk, CR 5, don't look at it directly, you do this..you do this..ok we won"

    If D&D has become the latter, play Symbaroum. Your master 5e players may know when they can stroll through the Sword Coast, but they don't know s**t about the Davokar.
    Last edited by mephnick; 2018-11-04 at 07:44 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Orc in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Why don't you write your own monster stats if you don't like that your players already know them?

    WotC's monster stats are rubbish anyway.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
    There was a time I could put a powerful monster in a low-level dungeon, and the players would spend long minutes wondering if they could take it. What tactics they could try. Now...now they take one look and turn away because they know it's above their level. Even if they don't mean to meta-game, they still know and it influences how they act.

    The very fundamentals of how most players play the game have changed. They play it safe, only taking on challenges they KNOW they can win, and they EXPECT to win every time. If they don't win, they get upset because they didn't get to be the hero they wanted. They complain that it was unfair. That the monster were too high a level for them. That they didn't get the loot they should have.

    I feel like it's a reflection of the "me first" entitled society the world has become.
    Right, first thing is to agree with everything that's being said that if you think you need to take a break, then that's all the signal you need that you must take a break. Disillusionment only gets worse if you try and press on without making big changes, and like it or not, life's too short to waste hours on pretendy funtime games if you're not getting any funtime out of it.

    That said, I would like to offer a certain degree of Devil's Advocate on this: what you are seeing is entirely expected behaviour from a group of well-experienced group of people
    (1) who put a lot of work into their characters and
    (2) who expect D&D to work with the certainty that some video games offer.

    Basically, you've hit the point where your players do not think there's an acceptable return in taking risks with their characters. I suspect their awareness or expectation of Wealth By Level "rules" may be part of this. If you "know" that somewhere between Level X and Level Y your DM will have to award you Z quantity of gp in treasure or loot, then there is roughly zero incentive in taking on fights where you are uncertain of victory. Because you know the DM will have to throw something at you allowing you to acquire that level of wealth eventually. Hence the comment that they didn't get the loot they "should" have received.

    Here's another possibility for how they got to this point. And this is a matter for self-reflection only, only you can know whether this possibility is true or not. You might ask yourself whether they have been punished for taking risks, or punished for not thinking tactically. Not punished by you, necessarily: punished by the game, if you like. How often were they TPKed despite being cautious about how they approach an enemy? Conversely, how often were their elaborate and cinematic plans against a monster utterly irrelevant to how they eventually defeated it? Were they dismissed with a DM smile and a "Yeah, nah, that swinging off a chandelier doesn't make that creature flatfooted to you."?

    I'd argue that by retreating from any fight they're not sure they can win the players are behaving in a very rational, human way: why the hell would I step into a ring with a Conor McGregor if I have no idea how much money I'm going to get at the end for risking basically my entire being? What is the return on the risk I'm taking? What is the payoff? If there's a chance I could get nothing out of this, is it an acceptably low chance that makes it worth me taking this fight on?

    In short: this might not be a reflection of a "me first" entitled society. It may be the evolution of players who have been smacked around by railroaded adventure paths, it may have been players who value their characters and the work they put into them such that they don't want them to die easily. If you want to control metagaming, then the first thing to do is to get rid of the completely artificial distinction between the player and the character. Have a general rule that what's said OOC is being said IC.

    As said, the other part of it is partially D&D 3.5's fault. It sets WBL. It sets up the general (which then becomes absolute and universal) rule that if a player wants a magic item, they should be able to buy it.

    One way to change this sense of "entitlement" (which it isn't, it's an expectation the game itself vomits up and leaves the DM to clean up the mess) is to change the assumptions right from the start. And the only fair way to do that is right at the Session Zero point. On the other hand, you have to be aware that people respond to incentives, and they plan according to the rules they're given: if you're not subtle enough about this and just say "WBL is being thrown out the window", then expect a lot more T1 casters and classes that don't have to rely as heavily on gear and treasure to function.

    Another way to deal with the issue: give more meaningful choices not related to combat. Players ruminating over tactics is exactly what you want, because a RPG is ultimately about player agency, the ability for those people to make choices that at least appear meaningful in the game world. Make the players choose between opposed goods rather than good vs. evil. Give them choices about what route they take to reach a destination, and make the choice a real one: one route faster but more dangerous, the other route slower but safer ... in which the time it takes also has an impact (will you reach the outpost in time or not.)

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Take a break and then when you feel like playing again, either write your own rules or play a different game.
    Re: 100 Things to Beware of that Every DM Should Know

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    93. No matter what the character sheet say, there are only 3 PC alignments: Lawful Snotty, Neutral Greedy, and Chaotic Backstabbing.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Quote Originally Posted by tensai_oni View Post
    This statement shows that you have become jaded and look down on people for wanting different things and doing things differently than how it was done in "the good old days".

    I suggest a healthy amount of self reflection, before you turn into an old man yelling at kids to get off his lawn.
    Nah. The statement is entirely true. The fundamental changes that came along with 3E and grew more pronounced in 3.5E and 4E around the whole "player empowerment"-thing can be pretty annoying and they rob the gm of their fun, which they're entitled to have, too.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Knaight's Avatar

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Nah. The statement is entirely true. The fundamental changes that came along with 3E and grew more pronounced in 3.5E and 4E around the whole "player empowerment"-thing can be pretty annoying and they rob the gm of their fun, which they're entitled to have, too.
    The original quote said nothing about games in particular, but was instead a comment about what "the world has become".
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

    I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that.
    -- ChubbyRain

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    The original quote said nothing about games in particular, but was instead a comment about what "the world has become".
    Read the paragraph directly before that. It makes an observation how player behavior in the game has changed, following up by liken that to the "me first" mentality.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Between Tucker's Kobolds and Goblin Slayer anime running currently, I'd think people would have plenty of ideas for dastardly stuff the goblins can come up with, so I think you either are presenting the encounters too plainly or are suffering from burnout.

    Now, burnout is normal, get a few weeks or months off, play as a player in the meantime with one of your players acting as a DM in the meantime while you play something that allows you to observe the others and act as the weak link in the party that truly has something to fear from the world around him. Your fear can transfer to the players and in turn some of that magic of not knowing what you are facing will help make the world more interesting again.

    Read more, watch more documentaries, read fantasy you haven't tried yet, maybe you can find some inspiration you felt was missing.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Jul 2017

    Default Re: I think I might be done

    You should talk to your players about what kind of experience you all want to have.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Nov 2018

    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Thank you everyone for your advice and thoughts. I believe I will take a break from my RL group for a bit.

    In the meantime I think I will try running a game here on the forum. A slower pace with new players I think will be refreshing.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    d6 Re: I think I might be done

    Know one says that there is treasure in every encounter.
    If the players are expecting something that is there problem. Make them deal with NPCs run a talking situation a town adventure put roadblocks in there way. Enforcement of alignment.

    There are other aspects of D&D that are strictly DM.

    Example real life game

    Nuetral dwarf at start of session

    We have a player hit by a spell that reduces wisdom intelligence and charisma to 3. End of game play. Next week I arrive to the game to this. Player with bad stats killed.
    Turns out the Neutral cleric started to say we should just kill the other player character.

    A 1/2 orc fighter CN and the dwarf cosnider the proposal. They move in for the kill. The dwarf does the deed. Where are the alignments now?

    Later the dwarf goes and helps a paladin out. Who is calling for help. Player states the only reason he helped the paladin is because that was the last monster on the field, otherwise he would never respond to the Paladin's cry for help.

    The 1/2 goes to a CG cleric and asks for an atonement. Seeks advice on becoming a good person.

    All of this happens after the paladin detects evil on the party and gives a warning to the entire party those two are pinging slightly evil. But not dangerously yet.

    For me as a player this is all neat to watch unfold how would you feel as a DM?
    Last edited by denthor; 2018-11-05 at 02:07 PM.
    9 wisdom true neutral cleric you know you want me in your adventuring party


  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    Aside from burnout, I think you and your group are simply suffering from mismatched expectations. You want a tense combat-as-war type game, where everything is strange and dangerous and player tactics are more important than mechanics. Your players seem to prefer a lighter combat-as-sport type game, where things are familiar and straightforward and can be enjoyed without much stress. Neither style is inherently better, but preferring one and getting the other is certainly no fun. You need to take a break, then come back with a strange new setting, maybe even system*.



    *Not M&M, though. Much as I love M&M and have used it for different genres, it's a superhero game at heart. It's meant for mowing down hordes of unthreatening mooks and brawling with equally-powerful foes; "tension" doesn't really enter into it so much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Major Works

    I also write superhero trash, if you like to read.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Superhero in the Playground Moderator
     
    Mark Hall's Avatar

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    Default Re: I think I might be done

    As others have said, a lot of this feels like burnout. For that? Take a step back. Do related things you're still interested in, don't sell your whole collection, and let it rest for a while. I've been there before, and now I'm working on stuff again, though I'm not eager to sit at the table with anyone.
    The Cranky Gamer
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
    *Savage Scrolls: A Savage Worlds/Elder Scrolls Conversion
    *The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
    Avatar is from local user Mehangel
    API Anthology 1 from Drivethru RPG.
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