Planar Binding is SLAVERY

[Deophaun]

Devilish Bribes and Gifts is just that, bribes and gifts. If you want to bribe the devil you need to follow those rules. If you don't want to bribe the devil you don't use those rules. Simple as that.

No. Flat out wrong.

A spellcaster who calls a devil using a planar binding spell MUST negotiate terms for its service, offering girfts and sacrifices to secure the desired assistance.

[RoboEmperor]

No. Flat out wrong.

Read the section above it

Planar binding spells are not as clear cut, stating only that the caster must make a series of offers and bribes to gain the outsider’s willing service, with higher offers generating better bonuses on the caster’s required Charisma check. For a more detailed look, see the Devilish Bribes and Gifts sidebar.

You use those rules for WILLING service. You must use the sidebar for WILLING service. Unwilling you use PHBI's rules just like how Regenar did with the Pain Devil.

Those rules don't list Freedom as Payment and I've established that it can be the sole payment. Bribes and gifts are optional therefore those rules are optional rules.

[Arbane]

Well, first of all, let's keep in mind that rolling a 1 on your charisma check to bind the creature automatically results in it breaking free,

In optimizerland, rolling dice is for muggles.

[Deophaun]

You use those rules for WILLING service. You must use the sidebar for WILLING service.

The sidebar is worded universally. You are using formatting to justify your argument. The fact that negative Charisma modifiers automatically fail cuts strongly against your highly questionable interpretation.

[Particle_Man]

Another data point: Malconvokers are good at binding evil outsiders and as a class ability can cast evil spells without it affecting their alignment.

[RoboEmperor]

The sidebar is worded universally. You are using formatting to justify your argument. The fact that negative Charisma modifiers automatically fail cuts strongly against your highly questionable interpretation.

No it's not. The title clearly says Bribes and Gifts. The section I quoted says Bribes and Gifts. I don't see how the sidebar would apply to spellcasters who don't use bribes and gifts because it's solely for bribes and gifts. You can't take one sentence out of the context it was used in and call it proof.

I refer you to once again to the Pain Devil that was enslaved in the same book by Planar Binding. Does the Devilish Bribes and Gift mention slavery? With all those cultist worshippers, sacrifices, and money? No. It does not. You cannot enslave a devil with those rules. A devil has been enslaved in the same book with Planar Binding. And Bribes and Gifts are optional. There is only one conclusion you can reach with all these facts. That sidebar only applies to spellcasters who wish to employ a devil's WILLING service.

Your interpretation betrays Planar Binding's text, several of the quotes I quoted on the 1st page, the text in Infernal ALLIANCES section, and the Pain Devil's monster entry text. My interpretation betrays none.

[Rhedyn]

No. Flat out wrong.

Excuse me, but why is a DM trying to justify their running of planar binding with RAW from splat books?

1. The only justification you need for houserules is "My game works this way"

2. RAW arguments about how a core book spell works should only reference rules in the core book. Otherwise you are saying the core book's RAW changes with the existence of splat books, which is nonsense.

3. This is a super lazy way to curtail planar binding abuse that succeeds in only preventing the DM from having to do some roleplaying.

[Segev]

Nothing in the rules prevents you from "bribing" and "negotiating" by means other than what one might consider ordinary bribery (e.g. money or sacrifices). You could offer it freedom to pursue its own aims within certain limits as long as it also serves you. This might even take the form of "I'm going to ask you to hunt down and kill Bob the Guy You Really Hate," getting the fiend to say, "I'm in! Let's do this!" Or you might do it by casting charm monster or dominate monster and cajolling/compelling it to accept servitude (and repeated applications of the appropriate spells to keep it controlled). Heck, you might already be allies, or even friends. Nothing says fiends are incapable of friendship, just that they're not good people. Villains can have friends, even loved ones. And a deliberately botched planar binding is a way that a cult could bring their fiendish overlord into the world. Or one of their overlord's other servants. This may be closer to a planar ally in concept, but in practice, if you don't have a cleric but do have a wizard...

In short, the more you treat it like an interaction with NPCs, the more your options for how to work it open up.

[magicalmagicman]

No it's not. The title clearly says Bribes and Gifts. The section I quoted says Bribes and Gifts. I don't see how the sidebar would apply to spellcasters who don't use bribes and gifts because it's solely for bribes and gifts. You can't take one sentence out of the context it was used in and call it proof.

I refer you to once again to the Pain Devil that was enslaved in the same book by Planar Binding. Does the Devilish Bribes and Gift mention slavery? With all those cultist worshippers, sacrifices, and money? No. It does not. You cannot enslave a devil with those rules. A devil has been enslaved in the same book with Planar Binding. And Bribes and Gifts are optional. There is only one conclusion you can reach with all these facts. That sidebar only applies to spellcasters who wish to employ a devil's WILLING service.

Your interpretation betrays Planar Binding's text, several of the quotes I quoted on the 1st page, the text in Infernal ALLIANCES section, and the Pain Devil's monster entry text. My interpretation betrays none.

Holy crap! I've never seen anyone beat that sidebar before! I always used the argument Rhedyn used!

You seem to be the true Planar Binding master of this forum.

[Nifft]

You seem to be the true Planar Binding master of this forum.

If Planar Binding has a master, then I guess it really is slavery.

[Arbane]

Well, now we've got our next campaign's apocalyptic plot: "The Outsiders have unionized".

[OgresAreCute]

Well, now we've got our next campaign's apocalyptic plot: "The Outsiders have unionized".

Does hell have socialized healthcare?

[One Step Two]

Does health have socialized healthcare?

Many outsiders have cleric levels, so I would assume yes!

[Zanos]

The sidebar is worded universally. You are using formatting to justify your argument. The fact that negative Charisma modifiers automatically fail cuts strongly against your highly questionable interpretation.

Isn't PHB going to be a primary source? The original printing of the spell clearly says the Charisma modifier ranges from +0 to +6. The entire FC sidebar at odds with the original writeup, actually.

[RoboEmperor]

Holy crap! I've never seen anyone beat that sidebar before! I always used the argument Rhedyn used!

You seem to be the true Planar Binding master of this forum.

Thanks for the compliment but I'm not trying to "beat" anything. I'm just trying to use the spell as intended by its writers in my games which is enslavement of a powerful creature at great risk to your person and all this rule citation is simply to stop DMs trying to pervert the spell's text into their warped house rule and call that RAW or RAI.

Just to be clear I'm not talking about anyone in this thread, I'm solely talking about the DMs that caused me to hunt for these citations.

[Braininthejar2]

If that were true, much of the Enchantment school would have the [Evil] label.

In Dragonlance setting, school specialisations are divided between alignments - Black robes get necromancy or enchantment. It is messing with people's will. And there is a lot of arguments between real life "magic practitioners" that love charms should not be considered white magic.

[Oblivionsmurf]

Read the section above it
You use those rules for WILLING service. You must use the sidebar for WILLING service. Unwilling you use PHBI's rules just like how Regenar did with the Pain Devil.

I disagree with this interpretation of the sidebar in Fiendish Codex II, primarily because it seems to assume that a caster using Planar Binding can somehow elect between willing service and compulsion. Planar Binding merely provides:

If the creature does not break free of the trap, you can keep it bound for as long as you dare. You can attempt to compel the creature to perform a service by describing the service and perhaps offering some sort of reward. You make a Charisma check opposed by the creature’s Charisma check. The check is assigned a bonus of +0 to +6 based on the nature of the service and the reward. If the creature wins the opposed check, it refuses service. New offers, bribes, and the like can be made or the old ones reoffered every 24 hours. This process can be repeated until the creature promises to serve, until it breaks free, or until you decide to get rid of it by means of some other spell. Impossible demands or unreasonable commands are never agreed to. If you roll a 1 on the Charisma check, the creature breaks free of the binding and can escape or attack you.

(Emphasis added).

There is only one form of service permitted under Planar Binding: compulsion by means of an opposed Charisma check, with rewards offered solely as a means to increase that Charisma check.

This is reinforced by Fiendish Codex II, which provides (at page 29):

Some devils can be summoned with summon monster spells. Such a spell gains the evil descriptor when used to conjure an evil creature, so anyone who uses it in this way gains 1 corruption point (see Corrupt Acts, below). While such spells provide quick and useful services from the summoned beings, the duration is quite limited.

For longer service, spellcasters can employ planar ally and planar binding spells, both of which involve actually calling a devil from Baator and making a bargain for its aid. As stated in the spell descriptions, planar ally requires a gift of 100 gp per HD of the summoned creature for tasks requiring just a few minutes, up to 500 gp per HD for tasks requiring hours, or 1,000 gp per HD for tasks requiring days. Planar binding spells are not as clear cut, stating only that the caster must make a series of offers and bribes to gain the outsider’s willing service, with higher offers generating better bonuses on the caster’s required Charisma check. For a more detailed look, see the Devilish Bribes and Gifts sidebar.

Even though this passage mentions 'willing service', it doesn't distinguish between that 'willing service' and pure compulsion; it instead merely notes that Planar Binding allows for longer service than summon monster spells, but that this services requires a 'bargain' and 'willing service'. Put another way, it is telling that Fiendish Codex II does not also include a passage to the effect of 'you can also bind a Devil without gaining its willing service', or similar (particularly in circumstances where it is otherwise describing mechanisms for securing longer service by Devils).

I should emphasise that I agree with you that the ordinary principle is that freedom can be a sufficient reward for a Planar Binding spell (see generally Tome of Magic, page 7); however, Fiendish Codex II seems to be authority for the proposition that Devils require something more. That is, I think it is more likely that Fiendish Codex II sets down rules for what constitutes an 'unreasonable command' for a Devil than for Planar Binding to have separate 'compulsion' and 'willing service' limbs (when that is not supported by the primary text).

Let me know what you think.

[RoboEmperor]

I should emphasise that I agree with you that the ordinary principle is that freedom can be a sufficient reward for a Planar Binding spell (see generally Tome of Magic, page 7); however, Fiendish Codex II seems to be authority for the proposition that Devils require something more. That is, I think it is more likely that Fiendish Codex II sets down rules for what constitutes an 'unreasonable command' for a Devil than for Planar Binding to have separate 'compulsion' and 'willing service' limbs (when that is not supported by the primary text).

Let me know what you think.

A wizard named Regenar used a planar binding spell to enslave a pain devil. The devil tortures its master’s prisoners, teasing out secrets with profane skill. It relishes the moment when it can turn its talents on the mortal who bound it.

1. The Devilish Bribes sidebar is in Fiendish Codex II
2. The above quote is in Fiendish Codex II. In other words they are both from the same book.
3. It is impossible to enslave a Devil using the rules in the Devilish Bribes sidebar.
4. Yet in the same book a wizard used the Planar Binding spell (not dominate monster) to enslave a Devil.

Therefore...
1. FCII directly says Devils can be enslaved
2. The only way you can enslave Devils is if you ignore that sidebar.
3. Therefore in conclusion you only use the Devilish Bribes sidebar during a consensual planar binding when you're using bribes and you ignore it if you are not trying to obtain a devil's willing service.

You got two things fighting you here.
1. The sidebar was used to elaborate willing service under Infernal Alliances.
2. The sidebar is incompatible with slavery.

Your logic might put up a fight with 1 but not 2.

[Oblivionsmurf]

1. The Devilish Bribes sidebar is in Fiendish Codex II
4. Yet in the same book a wizard used the Planar Binding spell (not dominate monster) to enslave a Devil.

We're down to semantical criticism here. The use of the word 'enslave' here is equivalent to 'compel' in the primary text. There remains only one form of action permitted by Planar Binding: compulsion, with a Charisma check supported by rewards (and with Devils automatically refusing any Charisma check where the base modifier is below 0).

[RoboEmperor]

We're down to semantical criticism here. The use of the word 'enslave' here is equivalent to 'compel' in the primary text. There remains only one form of action permitted by Planar Binding: compulsion, with a Charisma check supported by rewards (and with Devils automatically refusing any Charisma check where the base modifier is below 0).

You forgot willing. Enslave =/= Willing.

It's up to you how you interpret it but the sidebar fails to give a charisma modifier for threat of death which results in the devil's demotion. Are devils really going to choose demotion which will take thousands of years to recover from over serving a mortal for 1day/caster level?

I understand your argument. You're saying there's only one type of compulsion in Planar Binding but that's not true. The bound outsider can be happy and not seek revenge because of the bribes or be angry and bloodthirsty if he was threatened into service. The "compulsion" can be you using your charisma to charm the guy, or in the Malconvoker's case, using his Bluff check to lie to the guy and make him a willing helper. According to your interpretation such a difference in behavior cannot be achieved.

The Bribes and Gifts sidebar is for cultists and devil worshippers who strike bargains with devils, not wizards who enslave devils under threat of death or the like.

For a charisma check that results in no vengeance you use roleplay, bribes, or gifts. For a charisma check that will result in vengeance you just roll the dice and kill the outsider if you fail.

I think it's clear the sidebar is for consensual agreements only and there's enough RAW to support this claim and if the player decides to go another way it wouldn't apply.

[Oblivionsmurf]

You forgot willing. Enslave =/= Willing.

I think it's clear the sidebar is for consensual agreements only and there's enough RAW to support this claim and if the player decides to go another way it wouldn't apply.

But the introduction to the sidebar itself expressly refers to compulsion/enslavement:

Occasionally, a foolish mortal dabbles in forbidden knowledge and lore without realizing the danger it holds. Perhaps initial experiments go well enough, emboldening the seeker to continue. But the deeper such an amateur delves, the greater the risk of attracting infernal attention, until at last a devil arrives to seduce and cajole the fool who has been witlessly exploring the obscene and forbidden.

More informed mortals sometimes actively seek to enslave devils and use them as tools to serve their own ends. Such efforts usually backfire, and the hubris of the act has a way of catching up with such casters. Some devils can be summoned with summon monster spells. Such a spell gains the evil descriptor when used to conjure an evil creature, so anyone who uses it in this way gains 1 corruption point (see Corrupt Acts, below). While such spells provide quick and useful services from the summoned beings, the duration is quite limited.

For longer service, spellcasters can employ planar ally and planar binding spells, both of which involve actually calling a devil from Baator and making a bargain for its aid. As stated in the spell descriptions, planar ally requires a gift of 100 gp per HD of the summoned creature for tasks requiring just a few minutes, up to 500 gp per HD for tasks requiring hours, or 1,000 gp per HD for tasks requiring days. Planar binding spells are not as clear cut, stating only that the caster must make a series of offers and bribes to gain the outsider’s willing service, with higher offers generating better bonuses on the caster’s required Charisma check. For a more detailed look, see the Devilish Bribes and Gifts sidebar.

I agree, however, that the sidebar does not include a circumstance modifier for threats of death, which must surely boost the Charisma check modifier (though I am not aware of any RAW regarding that).

[RoboEmperor]

But the introduction to the sidebar itself expressly refers to compulsion/enslavement:

I agree, however, that the sidebar does not include a circumstance modifier for threats of death, which must surely boost the Charisma check modifier (though I am not aware of any RAW regarding that).

Again you forgot to highlight "willing service".

More informed mortals sometimes actively seek to enslave devils and use them as tools to serve their own ends. Such efforts usually backfire, and the hubris of the act has a way of catching up with such casters.

is a fun fact.

Some devils can be summoned with summon monster spells. Such a spell gains the evil descriptor when used to conjure an evil creature, so anyone who uses it in this way gains 1 corruption point (see Corrupt Acts, below). While such spells provide quick and useful services from the summoned beings, the duration is quite limited.

is a completely different fact not related to slavery. Summoning =/= slavery. Subject has been changed.

For longer service, spellcasters can employ planar ally and planar binding spells, both of which involve actually calling a devil from Baator and making a bargain for its aid. As stated in the spell descriptions, planar ally requires a gift of 100 gp per HD of the summoned creature for tasks requiring just a few minutes, up to 500 gp per HD for tasks requiring hours, or 1,000 gp per HD for tasks requiring days. Planar binding spells are not as clear cut, stating only that the caster must make a series of offers and bribes to gain the outsider’s willing service, with higher offers generating better bonuses on the caster’s required Charisma check. For a more detailed look, see the Devilish Bribes and Gifts sidebar.

is a completely different fact related to willing service and tells you to look at the sidebar for more elaboration about this willing service. Planar Ally is NOT slavery. You cannot enslave anything with Planar Ally.

As you admitted there is no threat of death modifier, or "freedom" modifier since freedom is the payment. And you really can't ignore the sidebar's title: Devilish BRIBES and GIFTs. Tell me, if a Planar Binding attempt has 0 bribes or gifts, why would this sidebar be invoked? There are no bribes or gifts so no one would look up or use rules pertaining to bribes or gifts.

[Florian]

I'm just trying to use the spell as intended by its writers

And this is where you're incorrect. Binding and Ally didn't really change along the editions, with the 3E version being the worst update of the spells, mostly because of the faulty translation of some rules aspects that made sense in AD&D, but don't in d20.

If you want to go with "intended by the writers", you actually have to go back to Gygax (and then blame him for the idea to put everything in the format of single spells).

The basic idea is to create a trap (magic circle), lure an outsider into it (it´s largely unexplained how that should happen, because it works like a high precision reverse plane shift, something that doesn't exist outside of Gate) and than bribe/haggle/coerce/force into a deal (the CHA and gp part of it).

Now the thing with 3E, 3.5E and PF is, that we have a massive overlap happen on things that now exist by the rules, but didn't in AD&D, where many of the original ideas, tropes, items and spells come from. The point about RAW is, that in any of these three editions, the GM section is pretty clear about how to adjust that overlap, namely by disallowing it and saying "nope". PF is even clearer about it, suggesting to allow an overlap maybe once or twice, but should a pattern emerge, put the foot down on it, hard (And yes, the GM section is the only relevant RAW of the game that matters. The best example is actually an item of permanent True Strike, to understand the whole concept).

That overlap is the major thing here, tho, which needs to be pointed out to understand how a GM should/will adjust the rules here. You will always have to look at the bigger picture and handle the costs accordingly. Yeah, we're using certain tropes a lot and stumble into creating new ones that we try to justify with the given rules we work with. No-one actually cares whether that "Guardian Daemon" is bund to protect the vault for eternity or replaced every 12 days, it doesn't matter, its a trope, no one really cares. But once you start to infringe on Create Wondrous Item or Create Construct territory, things are going to get interesting.

[Segev]

Now the thing with 3E, 3.5E and PF is, that we have a massive overlap happen on things that now exist by the rules, but didn't in AD&D, where many of the original ideas, tropes, items and spells come from. The point about RAW is, that in any of these three editions, the GM section is pretty clear about how to adjust that overlap, namely by disallowing it and saying "nope". PF is even clearer about it, suggesting to allow an overlap maybe once or twice, but should a pattern emerge, put the foot down on it, hard (And yes, the GM section is the only relevant RAW of the game that matters. The best example is actually an item of permanent True Strike, to understand the whole concept).

That overlap is the major thing here, tho, which needs to be pointed out to understand how a GM should/will adjust the rules here. You will always have to look at the bigger picture and handle the costs accordingly. Yeah, we're using certain tropes a lot and stumble into creating new ones that we try to justify with the given rules we work with. No-one actually cares whether that "Guardian Daemon" is bund to protect the vault for eternity or replaced every 12 days, it doesn't matter, its a trope, no one really cares. But once you start to infringe on Create Wondrous Item or Create Construct territory, things are going to get interesting.

I'm afraid your "there exists an overlap of things" has lost me, because you're not clearly connecting this "overlap" to whatever it is you're arguing against. What "things" exist in this "overlap" that RoboEmperor (or others) are abusing, misunderstanding, or otherwise need to know should just be "nope"'d away by the DM for Gygax's intent to be followed?

I'm not even arguing against you here: I can't figure out what you're trying to say other than "I disagree." I can't parse the why.

[unseenmage]

I'm afraid your "there exists an overlap of things" has lost me, because you're not clearly connecting this "overlap" to whatever it is you're arguing against. What "things" exist in this "overlap" that RoboEmperor (or others) are abusing, misunderstanding, or otherwise need to know should just be "nope"'d away by the DM for Gygax's intent to be followed?

I'm not even arguing against you here: I can't figure out what you're trying to say other than "I disagree." I can't parse the why.

Same. I think that I could guess at the intent but that would be a guess.

[Selion]

You forgot willing. Enslave =/= Willing.

It's up to you how you interpret it but the sidebar fails to give a charisma modifier for threat of death which results in the devil's demotion. Are devils really going to choose demotion which will take thousands of years to recover from over serving a mortal for 1day/caster level?

I understand your argument. You're saying there's only one type of compulsion in Planar Binding but that's not true. The bound outsider can be happy and not seek revenge because of the bribes or be angry and bloodthirsty if he was threatened into service. The "compulsion" can be you using your charisma to charm the guy, or in the Malconvoker's case, using his Bluff check to lie to the guy and make him a willing helper. According to your interpretation such a difference in behavior cannot be achieved.

The Bribes and Gifts sidebar is for cultists and devil worshippers who strike bargains with devils, not wizards who enslave devils under threat of death or the like.

For a charisma check that results in no vengeance you use roleplay, bribes, or gifts. For a charisma check that will result in vengeance you just roll the dice and kill the outsider if you fail.

I think it's clear the sidebar is for consensual agreements only and there's enough RAW to support this claim and if the player decides to go another way it wouldn't apply.

I won't judge if your table likes to play according by RAW and theorycrafting, everyone is free to play the way he likes. D&D and RAW are not best friends anyway, the lone sheer volume of rules makes impossible to have even a vague balance and DM is usually needed to prevent abuses, even if abuses follow the rules. Every DM has a way to do it, someone just says "nope", someone is able to insert plot hooks that makes the abuse exploitable, there are cheap ways (interplanar rescue squad) and elegant ways to obtain the same result, but a DM should interfere when something may break the players amusement or the game atmosphere (i repeat, if players are happy with a guy morphing himself immune to fire to walk inside a demon i won't complain, i just have a different taste)

[Florian]

@Segev:

Overlap happens when you can gain the same result, using entirely different (sub)systems and rules to get there.

For example, when the game system treads a permanent minion as something that is either a class feature (ex: Druid animal companion, Wizard familiar) or has to be "bought" via feat (ex: Squire, Torchbearer, Leadership) or WBL (ex: Ultimate Campaign Mass Combat system), then a permanent Planar Binding doesn't fit there. It infringes on other rules that are already established (ex: Leadership would actually allow only for a whopping 2 Barbazu at extremely high level)

[Deadline]

I'm just trying to use the spell as intended by its writers

The issue here is, you are reading more into the spell than is there. You are assuming that the spell is naturally intended to interact with other spells not mentioned in its description. The spell really is as filled with DM interpretation as it appears to be in the PHB. Compiling a list of rules quotes from a dozen books doesn't speak to the intent, because you are trying to take the interpretations of dozens of writers and editors and claim that they somehow show intent for writers of the original spell. Except that can't possibly be the case (certainly not without a time machine).

At best, your quotes show a possible reading of how to interpret the spell consistently. The main issue you seem to be running into here is that your interpretation leans heavily into the consequence free area, which is counter to the spell description itself, and also problematic for game balance at many tables.

It also doesn't help that you make sweeping declarative statements like "Fiends don't get rescue teams," "Fiends must free themselves", and "shove these rule quotes in your DM's face". And then also try to say that you aren't trying to claim that DM's are RPing fiends wrong if they do those things.

You seem to have this weird chip on your shoulder regarding how you think things should be, and I can't tell if it's because of interactions you've had here, or if you are viewing all of the criticism of your argument through your personal lens of bad experiences with a DM in the past. Heck, it's very possible I'm misunderstanding your argument, so please clarify if I'm missing something.

[Rhedyn]

It also doesn't help that you make sweeping declarative statements like "Fiends don't get rescue teams."

Hahaha, yes this 5th level spell binds the most powerful demons and devils and gods by preventing them from saving this Imp.

Hahaha No.

[RoboEmperor]

I won't judge if your table likes to play according by RAW and theorycrafting, everyone is free to play the way he likes. D&D and RAW are not best friends anyway, the lone sheer volume of rules makes impossible to have even a vague balance and DM is usually needed to prevent abuses, even if abuses follow the rules. Every DM has a way to do it, someone just says "nope", someone is able to insert plot hooks that makes the abuse exploitable, there are cheap ways (interplanar rescue squad) and elegant ways to obtain the same result, but a DM should interfere when something may break the players amusement or the game atmosphere (i repeat, if players are happy with a guy morphing himself immune to fire to walk inside a demon i won't complain, i just have a different taste)

I always end up looking like a rule lawyering theorycrafter when I use rules to stop DMs from rule lawyering to nerf planar binding. As others said there is no way a splat book can change how a core spell is used and my rule lawyering just proved that the splat book in question did NOT in fact change how the core spell is used.

The issue here is, you are reading more into the spell than is there. You are assuming that the spell is naturally intended to interact with other spells not mentioned in its description. The spell really is as filled with DM interpretation as it appears to be in the PHB. Compiling a list of rules quotes from a dozen books doesn't speak to the intent, because you are trying to take the interpretations of dozens of writers and editors and claim that they somehow show intent for writers of the original spell. Except that can't possibly be the case (certainly not without a time machine).

At best, your quotes show a possible reading of how to interpret the spell consistently. The main issue you seem to be running into here is that your interpretation leans heavily into the consequence free area, which is counter to the spell description itself, and also problematic for game balance at many tables.

It also doesn't help that you make sweeping declarative statements like "Fiends don't get rescue teams," "Fiends must free themselves", and "shove these rule quotes in your DM's face". And then also try to say that you aren't trying to claim that DM's are RPing fiends wrong if they do those things.

You seem to have this weird chip on your shoulder regarding how you think things should be, and I can't tell if it's because of interactions you've had here, or if you are viewing all of the criticism of your argument through your personal lens of bad experiences with a DM in the past. Heck, it's very possible I'm misunderstanding your argument, so please clarify if I'm missing something.

I'm not reading more into the spell, it's the opposite. I'm stopping DMs from reading more into the spell. The spell description makes it clear bribes and gifts are optional and can just roll a charisma check to obtain service. It's the DMs who read more into the spell and claim "free service is an unreasonable command" and that's where the rule lawyering war begins. If I didn't have these quotes a lot of forum members here would've yelled "unreasonable command" and demanded wealth or a favor (usually very evil) in return for the service.

The list of rule quotes does speak intent. If a player doesn't want to use bribes and gifts and just roll a charisma check he can and the list of rule quotes show he definitely can. That's it.

The fiend debate was just for fun because why not? I was voicing my opinion on how fiends in d&d behave and voiced my disagreement with others that fiends act in a unionized mutually beneficial fashion with each other. Telling DMs they're roleplaying their own monster in their own world wrong is one of the best ways to ruin everyone's fun, especially the DM's so I don't talk about FCII lore with anyone except people online.

My abrasiveness is just the way I communicate. As Psyren noticed my arguments tend to go into extremes. "Impossible or completely vulnerable". It's just who I am, I end up talking like that without even noticing it even when I don't meant to say it that way.

As Deophaun pointed out with an intelligent enough player it is impossible for Planar Binding to have consequences and I am such player. The main most dangerous part of Planar Binding is rolling a 1 and I completely eliminated that risk with Surge of Fortune. I've eliminated the enslaved fiend's ability to conduct espionage by forcing it to act like a dumb brute and prevent it from communicating with anyone but me and if you stack a couple more stuff on top of this you got a consequence free planar binding as a result of my preparation and efforts.

Now some people have a problem with this. Because of how good I am with Planar Binding, Planar Binding now seems like a consequence free spell that gives me slaves for free at no risk at all, but that's because I'm better at the game than the DM. If a DM gets angry at how I made planar binding risk-free he might send rescue teams over and over resulting in other PC deaths at which point the other players gang up on me to not use planar binding. In this scenario I leave the table because the DM is a douche. If a DM doesn't get angry and throws a rescue team or two just for fun and does NOT use it as a way to discourage players from using planar binding I stay, and I believe this is how a good DM is supposed to behave.

edit: I just remembered when one of my DMs sent a hit squad of celestials or adventuerers instead of a rescue team of devils to slay the fiend I bound. We took them all out nonlethally and dropped them off in town. And he did not do this out of spite but just to give us the whole "you're trafficking with evil!" vibe. I really respected this DM.