Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 31 to 53 of 53
  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Max_Killjoy's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    The Lakes

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Satinavian View Post
    Yes, 5th edition made Lichdom really unattractive and stupid.

    Not only is the soul maintenance a big vulnerability, it also negates one other central benefit of earlier Lichdom : That you could exist and do your own thing without bothering anyone else, thus avoiding making enemies or drawing attention.

    Instead now you are just another undead parasite that has to be fought to protect whatever community is nearby. And making the transformation ritual more likely to generate victims didn't help either.





    I mean, i see why the change was done. So that adventurer groups actually have a reason to fight lichs instead of looking like douchbags for killing reclusive passive inoffensive researchers just to take their stuff. But that also destroyed any incentive for reclusive passive inoffensive researches to try to become a lich in the first place. It is no longer a way to do your own thing and research arcane knowledge for millenia while not having to pay attention to the rest of the world anymore.
    Also, given some past conversations and general observations of literature/stories, there's also evidently a strong undercurrent of "wanting to be immortal is actively evil, a blasphemy against nature and/or the divine", to the extent that some believe quite vehemently that any method or means of gaining immortality must be evil and destructive and horrible.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    Planet Mercenary RPG Discussion

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    here
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    I still use the 3e lore that becoming a lich requires an act so horrible none speak of it.

    So right after becoming a lich, and probably for a few generations after (elf generations folks....) you'll be remembered as that jerk who did the thing, and it will be up and coming heros with big egos who try to put you in your place. But after the heros stop showing up and everyone forgets the thing you did, or at least quits blaming you? Time to make up for it.

    Pick the city with the highest crime rate, with threat of monster invasion nightly, where kingdoms fight over not wanting to claim it as a part of their lands. Then? make it perfect. Start a rumor that speaking a word in the dead of night will summon a guardian for children. Eventually a child will be found outside their home late at night, surrounded by half wild dogs, and they will speak whatever nonsense word you spread around to trigger your teleportation to their location. It may not go well at first, there will be some details to address, and false summons will need to be dealt with. But soon, maybe three years, maybe in thirty, people will walk the streets at night unafraid, not knowing that a lich has adopted their city as its own. It's been 2000 years, you did your studying, now it's time to put that knowledge to use.

    And soon after? A vampire rogue comes to town, hearing of the nightly events, trying to set up shop. Maybe a Death Knight fighter comes with the rogue, as old friends do travel together often. A century later, a Mummy Lord Cleric rolls into town, having heard from anonymous gods that it may be needed. Not a decade later, epic elder evils start to target the town, and an adventuring party that traveled together 2300 years ago stands at the ready yet again.
    Check my wife's art out at Deviant Art
    And my occasional motivator or short story.
    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    You are my favorite kind of villain.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Superhero in the Playground Moderator
     
    Mark Hall's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    An immortal being who seeds obscure libraries with texts about how to become a lich that will actually make the person undergoing the process their slave.
    The Cranky Gamer
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
    *Savage Scrolls: A Savage Worlds/Elder Scrolls Conversion
    *The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
    Avatar is from local user Mehangel
    API Anthology 1 from Drivethru RPG.
    If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Mid-Rohan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silly Name View Post
    The first might be seen as getting rid of a time-consuming necessity, while how aggravating the latter is depends entirely on the person.
    I would expect the biological imperative most people feel would stop with the body's life energy. Liches probably don't feel the same impulse as the living.

    But even if the memory of it were a nuisance, you could probably permanency a Calm spell on yourself. Might protect you from making irrational mistakes.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Some play RPG's like chess, some like charades.

    Everyone has their own jam.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Orc in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2018

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    At some point though, you're going to unravel those mysteries you gave up life for (I mean the lvl 8 clone spell seems easier...)

    But, what about the grand feasts, Harems... oh I'm a simple man, but all the lich has left to enjoy is fine architecture and groveling servants who'll perform for him/her, and maybe killing things... all things you can enjoy without lichdom, probably moreso for the former.

    I dont know if you can have more than one clone waiting for you, but it's a nicer method.
    Last edited by The Jack; 2018-11-09 at 10:39 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    At some point though, you're going to unravel those mysteries you gave up life for (I mean the lvl 8 clone spell seems easier...)

    But, what about the grand feasts, Harems... oh I'm a simple man, but all the lich has left to enjoy is fine architecture and groveling servants who'll perform for him/her, and maybe killing things... all things you can enjoy without lichdom, probably moreso for the former.

    I dont know if you can have more than one clone waiting for you, but it's a nicer method.
    Which brings on the Star Trek argument that the clone isn't you its just a identical copy of you

    Also from an expert on the subject http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Millstone85's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Which brings on the Star Trek argument that the clone isn't you its just a identical copy of you
    Star Trek is ambiguous on the existence of souls. But in D&D, the spell explicitly transfers your soul to the new meatsuit.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Honest Tiefling's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Also, given some past conversations and general observations of literature/stories, there's also evidently a strong undercurrent of "wanting to be immortal is actively evil, a blasphemy against nature and/or the divine", to the extent that some believe quite vehemently that any method or means of gaining immortality must be evil and destructive and horrible.
    Probably because if the setting wasn't firmly against immortality, you'd have a few too many hanging around and the party will want to be one. If immortality can be obtained without having to kidnap people who talk in theatres, why hasn't it been done for sages and other great people? It could be done, but I think it would be very far away from the archetypal 'Young vagabond becomes embroiled in schemes' thing that most people tend to play that it'll be quite niche.

    I mean, elves present enough problems as is. Oh, it took you 80 ****ing years to get to level one, you complete buffoon? Oh, I see why YOUR people haven't taken over yet, yup.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oko and Qailee View Post
    Man, I like this tiefling.
    For all of your completely and utterly honest needs. Zaydos made, Tiefling approved.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Millstone85's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I mean, elves present enough problems as is. Oh, it took you 80 ****ing years to get to level one, you complete buffoon? Oh, I see why YOUR people haven't taken over yet, yup.
    To be fair, whether your human character is a 10-year-old street urchin or a 60-year-old veteran, they will start at the same level and gain many more in a much shorter in-story time.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Orc in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2018

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Somewhat.
    We also have stories where people live a long time or grow rediculously old. Tolkien gives us a history of races that had a perfect start but then generally had shorter and shorter lifespans, weaker and weaker abilities, and were morally weaker (there are a few outliers).

    One extremely notable book begins with a bunch of dudes living 900 years, but then the creator of man told them He'd give them a cap of 100 or so. Some notable figures still live longer because they're favoured.

    Now, most importantly, if we look at chinese mythology; immortals are everywhere. Using exercises and chi and alchemy and secret techniques a person can become immortal. They've got so many immortal stories, and of late have been churning them out.

    But, these immortals often fight eachother, fight gods/demons, are greedy, or sequester themselves in mountains. So low teir play is very possible.

    ps; In a western context, zues and odin could be a couple of chinese-style immortals
    Last edited by The Jack; 2018-11-09 at 12:51 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Honest Tiefling's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Just because Yoda exists doesn't mean all DMs want him to be playable as opposed to your Reys and Lukes. Most of the time the immortal characters are guys hanging around inaccessible locations to dispense wisdom and the occasional plot Macguffin. Even Lord of the Rings seems to focus far more on Aragon and the Hobbits, who don't usually get past 100 if I remember correctly.

    Yes, higher tier play is possible, but most stories are going to lean to the idea that your character is probably going to be Han at best when starting. So most settings really don't want immortality to come without some strings attached.
    Last edited by Honest Tiefling; 2018-11-09 at 03:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oko and Qailee View Post
    Man, I like this tiefling.
    For all of your completely and utterly honest needs. Zaydos made, Tiefling approved.

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    Star Trek is ambiguous on the existence of souls. But in D&D, the spell explicitly transfers your soul to the new meatsuit.
    In 3.x (possibly 5e, I don't know enough about that edition).
    Pre-3.x it made an exact copy of you at the time your pound of flesh was taken. If more than one instance of you was active, the newest version to come online went mad and tried to kill all other versions in existence in order to be the real one. This, you might perceive, played merry hell with the concept of souls if you tried to reconcile the two.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    At some point though, you're going to unravel those mysteries you gave up life for (I mean the lvl 8 clone spell seems easier...)

    But, what about the grand feasts, Harems... oh I'm a simple man, but all the lich has left to enjoy is fine architecture and groveling servants who'll perform for him/her, and maybe killing things... all things you can enjoy without lichdom, probably moreso for the former.

    I dont know if you can have more than one clone waiting for you, but it's a nicer method.
    The issue with Clone is that you can still die of old age, and this spell can't stop that. It is more of an emergency backup if you get killed, but it isn't effectively immortality.

    I also think you're downplaying the number of pleasures one can enjoy even without flesh: what about the many, many forms of art that exist? As a lich, you can witness the creation of masterpieces and remember them for all of eternity. You can take your time to perfect so many crafts and disciplines, and all this time is enhanced by not having to worry about bodily functions or needs. You could explore all the world, and then the planes beyond. And as long as your phylactery is kept safe, you can take on a bunch of risks other forms of immortality can't.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Millstone85's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by BWR View Post
    In 3.x (possibly 5e, I don't know enough about that edition).
    Pre-3.x it made an exact copy of you at the time your pound of flesh was taken. If more than one instance of you was active, the newest version to come online went mad and tried to kill all other versions in existence in order to be the real one. This, you might perceive, played merry hell with the concept of souls if you tried to reconcile the two.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silly Name View Post
    The issue with Clone is that you can still die of old age, and this spell can't stop that. It is more of an emergency backup if you get killed, but it isn't effectively immortality.
    I was reading the 5e version of the spell.

    And not only does it transfer your soul when you die, but it also allows you to make a younger clone if you so choose, independently from the cubic inch of flesh used as a component.

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by hotflungwok View Post
    Obsession with magic can do some weird **** to a mind, just look at whoever first made a Wand of Wonder.
    What are you talking about? Wand of Wonder is, like, up there with Bag of Beans in competition for coolest item ever!

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Probably buried somewhere in that vague "unspeakable vile acts" clause.
    Quote Originally Posted by RandomNPC View Post
    I still use the 3e lore that becoming a lich requires an act so horrible none speak of it.
    Well,

    Spoiler: The Unspeakable, Spoken
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by BWR View Post
    Sure.


    There are three versions, actually, at least three I am familiar with. The aforementioned Dragon Mag one, an updated version in Wizard's Spell Compendium vol 4. and the VRGtL one.

    Dragon Magazine # 26
    - Must be 14th level or higher
    - Must have magic jar, trap the soul, enchant an item
    - must create the phylactery with at least 2000 cp worth of materials (insert 1e ad hoc crafting rules). The phylactery is called a 'jar'.
    - create a potion consisting of:
    - 2 pinches pure arsenic
    - 1 pinch belladonna
    - phase spider venom less than 30 days old
    - wyvern venom less than 60 days old
    - blood of a dead humanoid infant killed by phase spider venom
    - blood of a dead humanoid infant killed by a mixture of arsenic and belladonna
    - the heart of a virgin humanoid killed by wyvern venom
    - 1 quart vampire blood
    The potion is mixed by the light of a full moon, added to each other in the order listed.

    Roll percentile dice!
    % result
    1-10 all hair falls out. no other result
    11-40 coma 2-7 days, but potion works
    41-70 Feebleminded. Each attempt to remove the feeblemind has 10% chance of killing target. Potion works
    71-90 Paralyzed 4-14 days, 30% chance of 1d6 Dex drain. Potion works
    91-96 Permanently deaf, dumb or blind. Wish to remove condition. Potion works
    97-00 Dead. Hope you can be resurrected.

    This version doesn't create new bodies, it inserts the soul of the lich into corpses near the phylactery. Corpses receive a saving throw, modified by their in life alignment. Lich can retry once per week until successful on its own corpse, but other corpses are immune after a successful save. If in a body other than its own, the lich has limited abilities until it finds the remains of its original body and consumes those. The only way to completely destroy the original body is to disintegrate it. Returning to a jar costs a level and if its level went lower than 11 the lich died the next time it is returned to the jar. They cannot level up or use scrolls.



    WSC
    Mostly the same as above, but they added Nulathoe's ninemen to required spells and a 100 000+ gp research cost.
    The ingredients are the same as above except that they removed the infant blood (wussies!) and change them to:
    - heart of a humanoid killed by the arsenic/belladonna mixture
    - reproductive organs of 10 giant moths, dead less than 10 days.

    Potion is sparkling black with blusish radiance and must be drunk within 7 days of creation, and over the course of six rounds the changes occur. Once a potion works, you don't die or transform quite yet. Craft the phylactery in no more than nine days (insert 2e crafting rules), using EAI, then TtS, and NN and MJ within 10 minutes of each other. Your soul is drawn into the phylactery and you lose one level and the top three spell levels are wiped clean from your memory until you have rested 1d6+1 days in your own body. Now you are a lichnee (I'm not quite dead, sir) until you die. After this, the same as the DrMg version, including failure chance for potion. No mention of inability to increase level or use scrolls. Phylactery can be anything.



    VRGtL
    Phylactery must be an amulet worth at least 1500 gp, The interior (itmust be able to contain things) is engraved with the wizard's sigil and filled with silver. Spells required are enchant an item, permanency, magic jar and reincarnation.
    The potion is less specific, but said to contain arsenic, belladonna, nightshade, heart's worry, the blood of any number of rare venomous creatures, then the following spells must be cast: wraithform, cone of cold, feign death, animate dead, permanency. No fancy table, just a System Shock to survive the process and hope you don't fail because if you do you are dead and gone for good. No Wish can help you now.


    It looks like there's some historic precisely for what that "unspeakable horror" looks like.

    Thanks, BWR!

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomNPC View Post
    I still use the 3e lore that becoming a lich requires an act so horrible none speak of it.

    So right after becoming a lich, and probably for a few generations after (elf generations folks....) you'll be remembered as that jerk who did the thing, and it will be up and coming heros with big egos who try to put you in your place. But after the heros stop showing up and everyone forgets the thing you did, or at least quits blaming you? Time to make up for it.

    Pick the city with the highest crime rate, with threat of monster invasion nightly, where kingdoms fight over not wanting to claim it as a part of their lands. Then? make it perfect. Start a rumor that speaking a word in the dead of night will summon a guardian for children. Eventually a child will be found outside their home late at night, surrounded by half wild dogs, and they will speak whatever nonsense word you spread around to trigger your teleportation to their location. It may not go well at first, there will be some details to address, and false summons will need to be dealt with. But soon, maybe three years, maybe in thirty, people will walk the streets at night unafraid, not knowing that a lich has adopted their city as its own. It's been 2000 years, you did your studying, now it's time to put that knowledge to use.

    And soon after? A vampire rogue comes to town, hearing of the nightly events, trying to set up shop. Maybe a Death Knight fighter comes with the rogue, as old friends do travel together often. A century later, a Mummy Lord Cleric rolls into town, having heard from anonymous gods that it may be needed. Not a decade later, epic elder evils start to target the town, and an adventuring party that traveled together 2300 years ago stands at the ready yet again.
    That sounds bloody awesome!
    Last edited by Quertus; 2018-11-09 at 07:07 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Oh, to answer the OP, let's ignore these modern wussy immigration Lich wannabes. What does being a Lich entail?

    Immortality, in a setting where such was all but unheard of.

    Self-Resurrection, in a setting where resurrection was all but unheard of.

    Self-Resurrection, on an evil character, in a setting where evil characters were often cartoon backstabbing villains, and good characters would murderhobo you for being evil. (Translation: nobody was gonna resurrect you, sucker!)

    Vulnerable to being turned? Are you joking? Clerics didn't have the power to destroy the mighty Lich back in the day.

    And there was no WBL, no LA, and probably (?) no listed cost for the phylactery. Even if there was, there were no magic shops, so "wealth" and "magic treasure" were two completely unrelated entries in your ledger.

    So, aside from a few minor physical inconveniences (which old age probably took from you / made more inconvenient already - and you were in a setting where there was almost no way to turn back the clock), it was purely a Power-Up.

    Unless you knew that crazy changes to the laws of magic were coming, why wouldn't you become a Lich?

    If you were already an evil Mage, that is.

    Oh, and in the really old days, before time itself, apparently there was such a thing as a good Lich.
    Last edited by Quertus; 2018-11-09 at 08:49 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    For the 3.x Lich:
    It's not the best form of immortality in the long run, but it may be the best you can achieve alone at 11th level, without stuff like "infinite Wishes at low level" on the table. A lot of the "casters are invulnerable" stuff comes online at 17th level (or by using methods that make 90% of the game moot). And unlike many forms, it doesn't require allies, or ongoing sources of supplies, or anything. You can pretty much ignore the rest of the world.

    In most settings, the super-rapid pace of advancement for PCs isn't available for everyone, and so a given NPC Necromancer might never reach past 12th level within their normal lifespan.

    In 5e:
    It's a worse deal, but there also aren't as many alternatives. No way to replicate the inherent immunities AFAIK, and a phylactery is easier to guard than a clone. Plus the whole "being available earlier, and there's no guarantee you make it to higher level" thing.
    Last edited by icefractal; 2018-11-09 at 09:11 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Also, given some past conversations and general observations of literature/stories, there's also evidently a strong undercurrent of "wanting to be immortal is actively evil, a blasphemy against nature and/or the divine", to the extent that some believe quite vehemently that any method or means of gaining immortality must be evil and destructive and horrible.
    That's just in Western civilization where the default assumption is that the afterlife will either be infinitely good or infinitely terrible, so the only people that would want to stay in the mortal world forever are the ones that know they are headed for the infinitely terrible afterlife. In the Sinosphere, immortality is not a bad thing, but it takes a really long time to achieve it. You can't work on immortality as a hobby. It's a full time occupation that requires living like a hermit up in the mountains, so it's not really compatible with an active adventurer/conquering warlord lifestyle.

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Millstone85's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    Oh, and in the really old days, before time itself, apparently there was such a thing as a good Lich.
    More recently, the 3.5 book Monsters of Faerūn gave archliches and baelnorns as examples of good liches, and the 4e book Arcane Power offered the Archlich epic destiny.

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    More recently, the 3.5 book Monsters of Faerūn gave archliches and baelnorns as examples of good liches, and the 4e book Arcane Power offered the Archlich epic destiny.
    Well, that's certainly something to look into.

    I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and guess that they didn't require unspeakably vial acts to achieve?

  21. - Top - End - #51
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Millstone85's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    Well, that's certainly something to look into.

    I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and guess that they didn't require unspeakably vial acts to achieve?
    Most likely.

    The idea seems to be that:
    * the path to archlichdom is longer, refusing any pact or theft.
    * baelnorns are a community effort, with the help of the Seldarine.

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2018

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    So you can remain around to look after the place / family / people you love.

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Mid-Rohan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why would you bother with lichdom?

    Quote Originally Posted by mymanga003 View Post
    Lichdom wouldn't be interesting if it wasn't as gruesome a deal as it is. It takes rather a lot of determination to carve out your own heart with a dull knife in the hopes that the recipe for immortality you're reading from isn't just some long dead bastards idea of a really funny practical joke. Thus, lichdom - from a literary or story perspective - really isn't about becoming immortal, but about what drives you to that choice, and what sort of person that makes you.
    In its generic form, yes. Lichdom (and more generally, undeath) can have profound subtext in a setting. In one of my custom worlds, undeath is produced due primarily to the way death and the afterlife interact. Messing with a person's corpse can afflict their existence in the afterlife. Robbing their grave and moving their bones might be enough to make them come back from the afterlife to repossess their body and defend their grave, but necromancy involves using magic to dominate their remains. Having your remains animated is torturous and can break the spirit's will, causing their soul to fragment and erode into nothingness.

    Hence lichdom, in that world, is worse than just cutting your own heart out with a dull spoon. That's just a painful moment in your life. Animating yourself is to subject yourself to an eternally tortured existence. You'll never die, but you'll never find peace (like the Curse of the Black Pearl). And it's especially bizarre because death isn't even the end for your soul normally in that world. You are signing on for eternal misery to stay here instead of starting your next life. The heck of it is that most people can't conceive of a less pleasant afterlife than lichdom, so why would anyone in their right mind do that to themselves? Surely even hell is better (and doesn't require you to cut out your heart with a dull spoon).

    Ultimately the common consensus is that only two kinds of people become liches voluntarily in that world. There are the wizards obsessed with their study and refuse to let the afterlife stop their research, and then there are mad men who have some dangerous delusion that somehow they're special and they'll be stronger as a lich or that the side effects surely won't affect THEM.

    In any case, becoming a lich isn't evil in and of itself in that setting. It's your own business if you want to damn yourself. But such individuals are usually deemed too dangerous for society and get hunted and destroyed if they hang around too close to civilization (or their graveyards).

    And this is only one example. Any setting that adds nuance to the subject can spin this any number of ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Some play RPG's like chess, some like charades.

    Everyone has their own jam.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •