How many secret plans are in progress right now, anyway?

[martianmister]

Belkar's plan to fake character development.
MitD's plan to hinder Xykon and Redcloak.
Xykon's plan to use MitD against Redcloak.
Not a plan, but Haley has a secret about her origin.

[Ruck]

Not a plan, but Haley has a secret about her origin.

Eh? What do you mean?

[martianmister]

Eh? What do you mean?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...you-would-call

[Ruck]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...you-would-call

I thought this was intended to be either a reference to her bisexuality or to her not actually being in the Thieves' Guild. Or, as Kish mentions in that thread, her self-loathing manifesting itself.

[martianmister]

I thought this was intended to be either a reference to her bisexuality or to her not actually being in the Thieves' Guild.

She already said both.

Or, as Kish mentions in that thread, her self-loathing manifesting itself.

As I said there, she had no reason to hide something like this from Vaarsuvius.

[Peelee]

As I said there, she had no reason to hide something like this from Vaarsuvius.

No reason that you agree with, you mean. She could easily not see herself as not exactly what you'd call a good person, for instance, and still want to hide that from people.

[martianmister]

No reason that you agree with, you mean. She could easily not see herself as not exactly what you'd call a good person, for instance, and still want to hide that from people.

Why would she hide it from V?

[Peelee]

Why would she hide it from V?

Because she was trained from childhood to hold her cards close to her chest, regardless of what those cards may be? That's kind of what her entire aphasia arc was about.

[martianmister]

Because she was trained from childhood to hold her cards close to her chest, regardless of what those cards may be? That's kind of what her entire aphasia arc was about.

Except, she already shared her more important secrets with Vaarsuvius.

[Peelee]

Except, she already shared her more important secrets with Vaarsuvius.

More important in your mind. Not necessarily in hers. Haley is neither you nor a perfectly rational person.

[Ruck]

Except, she already shared her more important secrets with Vaarsuvius.

More important in your mind. Not necessarily in hers. Haley is neither you nor a perfectly rational person.

I generally agree with this stance, but even assuming martianmister's reasoning is correct: How do you know she hid her self-loathing from Vaarsuvius?

[Peelee]

I generally agree with this stance, but even assuming martianmister's reasoning is correct: How do you know she hid her self-loathing from Vaarsuvius?

To be fair, Haley prefaces the secret with "Even V doesn't know that one."

ETA: To be more fair, regardless of what she was going to say, I doubt that qualifies as a secret plan.

[Ruck]

Except, she already shared her more important secrets with Vaarsuvius.

To be fair, Haley prefaces the secret with "Even V doesn't know that one."

ETA: To be more fair, regardless of what she was going to say, I doubt that qualifies as a secret plan.

Oh, right. I'm really skeptical in part because so many of the theories about "Haley's secret origin" are along the lines of "She's actually half-Celestial, just like the hero of Dragon Quest IV! which is how she and Sabine are opposites!" when the actual ways in which they are opposites has been confirmed by Rich.

[Fyraltari]

I'm really skeptical in part because so many of the theories about "Haley's secret origin" are along the lines of "She's actually half-Celestial, just like the hero of Dragon Quest IV! which is how she and Sabine are opposites!".

Wouldn't that require Sabine to be half-human, anyway?

[TRH]

We can't know for sure. It's a secret.

[The Pilgrim]

Master Fyrion's son.

He is the key to unraveling all this conundrum.

[TRH]

Master Fyrion's son.

He is the key to unraveling all this conundrum.

I thought Xykon killed him, too. Or do you mean he'd solve it from the afterlife?

[Sir_Norbert]

It's said that Xykon killed Fyron and his son, but...

Spoiler: SoD spoilers

Show

when we actually see the events, no son is visible. Thus one of OotS' long-standing unresolved mysteries was born.

Some have suggested it's a retcon and we're meant to take SoD as the real version and the son never existed. But that doesn't quite work, because the son was mentioned again after SoD was published.

It may just remain forever unresolved, but it could be something that was left in deliberately to be returned to later -- the story has had plenty enough of those that it's not absurd to suggest this could be one.

[Talion]

It's said that Xykon killed Fyron and his son, but...

Spoiler: SoD spoilers

Show

when we actually see the events, no son is visible. Thus one of OotS' long-standing unresolved mysteries was born.

Some have suggested it's a retcon and we're meant to take SoD as the real version and the son never existed. But that doesn't quite work, because the son was mentioned again after SoD was published.

It may just remain forever unresolved, but it could be something that was left in deliberately to be returned to later -- the story has had plenty enough of those that it's not absurd to suggest this could be one.

Spoiler: SoD spoilers

Show

Its also possible that Fyron's son could have been killed elsewhere in the building before the showdown between the man himself and Xykon. On the other hand, he's also not mentioned by Eugene at all during the flashback, despite having lived with him/them for several years and stopping by on at least a weekly basis. Hard call to make.

[martianmister]

More important in your mind. Not necessarily in hers. Haley is neither you nor a perfectly rational person.

Funny, people used to use the same reasoning to claim that she's definitely talking about her virginity.

Spoiler: SoD spoilers

Show

Its also possible that Fyron's son could have been killed elsewhere in the building before the showdown between the man himself and Xykon. On the other hand, he's also not mentioned by Eugene at all during the flashback, despite having lived with him/them for several years and stopping by on at least a weekly basis. Hard call to make.

I semi-seriously suspect that Eugene did something to him. He has seen Fyron as the father figure he never had.

[Peelee]

Funny, people used to use the same reasoning to claim that she's definitely talking about her virginity.

... and your point is?

[Talion]

Funny, people used to use the same reasoning to claim that she's definitely talking about her virginity.



I semi-seriously suspect that Eugene did something to him. He has seen Fyron as the father figure he never had.

In your mind, would you say it was on purpose or in one of those "Now would be a good time to teach you about image resolution" moments?

[martianmister]

... and your point is?

People are too quick to assume things.

In your mind, would you say it was on purpose or in one of those "Now would be a good time to teach you about image resolution" moments?

Maybe a heated argument after Fyron's murder?

[Kish]

People are too quick to assume things.

Does that include your assumption that that line refers to some mystery yet unrevealed? 'Cause you're the one who brought it in with an absolute statement here.

[martianmister]

Does that include your assumption that that line refers to some mystery yet unrevealed?

That's a fact, not an assumption. Here is the line:

"Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call..."

It's a secret that we're not allowed to see. Rich Burlew did hide it from us. Even if it's revealed to be a reference to Haley's suspicions about her alignment, we still don't know if that's the case.

'Cause you're the one who brought it in with an absolute statement here.

Like Aveline's post, everything in my first post here were guesses.

[thelivingmonkey]

That's a fact, not an assumption. Here is the line:

"Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call..."

It's a secret that we're not allowed to see. Rich Burlew did hide it from us. Even if it's revealed to be a reference to Haley's suspicions about her alignment, we still don't know if that's the case.



Like Aveline's post, everything in my first post here were guesses.

I mean, technically it is a secret. She could have been about to say something super obvious ("Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call an ogre, and I'm not") but it is still a secret, because we don't know what she was going to say. Given context, it is likely something not obvious and as it has not been specifically pointed out we may not know the secret yet.

I personally think it was some twist that we already know and just hasn't been specifically pointed out that that was what she was going to say, because why would the comic point that out, that is nonsensical to me.

"I'm not X, which is something I was going to tell you one time when I couldn't talk" seems entirely ridiculous to me.

[Peelee]

People are too quick to assume things.

I agree.

As I said there, she had no reason to hide something like this from Vaarsuvius.

[Kish]

I agree.

Didn't you get the memo? martianmister's assumptions are facts, not assumptions.

[thelivingmonkey]

Didn't you get the memo? martianmister's assumptions are facts, not assumptions.

Well you know what they say about assuming...

[martianmister]

Didn't you get the memo? martianmister's assumptions are facts, not assumptions.

Of course not, only you have that kind of power.

I agree.

You still didn't show me any reason for her to hide something like that from Vaarsuvius, other than the classic "she's trained to be secretive about herself since childhood" argument. She learned to be secretive to not give away her personal information, so that info can't be used against her. Both her interest in Elan and her clash with the guild were more important secrets that could be used against her, her doubts about alignment is not something people could use against her.