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2018-11-19, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
exactly what it says in the title.
By this time, everyone else in the party can afford an animated shield for a relatively low price, and get a nice boost to AC. Can a monk get something? if I read it correctly, an animated shield still interferes with monk abilities. There is the ring of force shield, I'm not sure if it interferes with monk abilities, but it's only a meager +2. Getting a permanent shield effect as per the spell would be a +4, but susceptible to be dispelled; we don't use persistency sheanigans at our table anyway.
What else?In memory of Evisceratus: he dreamed of a better world, but he lacked the class levels to make the dream come true.
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2018-11-19, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
A riding shield, an exotic saddle (A&EG), and a sentient small or tiny buddy to ride the monk into battle as a mount.
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2018-11-19, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Wand of Shield + UMD
Persistent Shield is a lv 5 spell. Should be affordable to get an item of it if you were considering an Animated Shield
A 1/day item of it should cost 22k if I got my math correct, and it follows the main rule for custom magic items which is having a similar price to existing items. A +2 animated darkwood heavy shield offers +4 Shield Bonus and no ACP for just over 16k, so paying 22k for a dispellable, non upgradable item of +4 AC bonus sould be perfectly fine (though animated shields are super cheap imo and I houserule them to be a +5 bonus instead of +2)Last edited by heavyfuel; 2018-11-19 at 06:53 PM.
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2018-11-19, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Doesn't a Mithril Buckler have no Armor Check Penalty? So using a +5 Mithril Buckler gets you a fairly cheap +6 Shield Bonus to AC. But since a monk is not proficient in shields, he takes the (-0) penalty to all his attack rolls.
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2018-11-19, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Feat intensive method, two weapon defense and improved two weapon defense.
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2018-11-19, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-11-19, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Trade all of the monk class features that say they don't work with a shield for alternative class features that don't say that?
Play some sort of monk / sorcerer / abjurant champion / enlightened fist build?
Wear armor and a shield, and don't sweat the loss of wis to AC, fast movement, and flurry of blows?
Play an unarmed-variant swordsage?
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2018-11-19, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-11-19, 10:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
A multiclass monk is still a monk. And the last one was a joke.
Monk 17 / Sorcerer 1 / Abjurant Champion 2 allows you to cast Shield as a swift action, and gain a +6 bonus from it.
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2018-11-19, 10:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Red Mage avatar by Aedilred.
Where do you fit in? (link fixed)
RedMage Prestige Class!
Best advice I've ever heard one DM give another:
"Remember that it is both a game and a story. If the two conflict, err on the side of cool, your players will thank you for it."
Second Eternal Foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.
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2018-11-19, 10:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Arguable.
A Swift Hunter Scout X/C. Cleric 1/Ranger X doesn't play like a Cleric, even if he has a single level in Cleric. This character can't solve the party's clerical needs effectively (healing HP, healing other things, buffing, removing debuffs, summoning, controlling undead, etc)
If I ask for advice for a Fighter and you say "Take 2 levels in Fighter for the Bonus feats and then 18 levels in Warblade" I won't really be playing a Fighter. I'll be playing a Warblade that dipped Fighter for Bonus Feats.
Saying "Go play another class" is dumb advice, especially for someone like King of Nowhere who clearly knows of these classes and chose not to take them.
As for it being a joke, well, it's hard to tell with writing. There are honest suggestions like that.Last edited by heavyfuel; 2018-11-19 at 10:54 PM.
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2018-11-19, 11:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
The cheap RAW item you're probably looking for is the Drow House Insignia (Drow of the Underdark). 1/day 1st level spell with cl 5, for far less than the formula price would give out cl 5. They set the caster level at 5th because there are three different versions up to 3rd level spells, so the umbrella entry using the MiC format sets them all to cl 5, nice job *eyeroll*. There's a list of "typically" contained spells, which already includes Shield. You can easily afford to buy however many you want, just like the underpriced Healing Belt.
The alternative I would use is to get the DM to fix the monk class, the most important part of which is their lack of AC turning them into punching bags instead of dodgy kung-fu masters. I use 2 +1/2 level (+wis) for the total monk bonus, which never stacks with any form of armor or shield bonus except Bracers of Armor (or Monk's Clothes of Armor). This means their "armor" bonus starts out at leather and ends up at super ultra plate, with a standard enhancement formula item to boost it, and the wis bonus shouldn't scale past +9 or +10 pre-epic, making it go from heavy shield to +5 tower shield in value.Fizban's Tweaks and Brew: Google Drive (PDF), Thread
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2018-11-19, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Personally, I tend to be lenient with such things with pure-classed Monks (but your mileage may vary, ask your DM). You might also ask if you can get Magic Vestments on it from a UMD'd wand (at high caster level, of course).
Are custom items up for consideration? Shield is a 1st level spell with a minutes/level duration. In theory, the Estimation Section says it's either spell level * caster level * 2,000 gp * duration modifier = 1 * 1 * 2,000 gp * 2 = 4,000 gp, or it's "AC bonus (other)" at bonus squared * 2,500 gp = +1 Shield AC for 2,500 gp, +2 Shield AC for 10k, +3 for 22.5k, +4 for 40k (and so on).Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2018-11-19, 11:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Monk 7 / Sorcerer 1 / Abjurant Champion 2 / Enlightened Fist 10 is a whopping 17 levels of monkly-goodness. Just 3 levels of dipping to get a +6 shield bonus as a swift action.
And if you don't like Enlightened Fist, take more monk levels. Or take levels in one of the many other prestige classes that gives continued advancement of Monk abilities.
I figured you may as well go Enlightened Fist, but it's not mandatory. The Sorcerer 1 / Abjurant Champion 2 dip still does it's job of ensuring you'll have a +6 shield bonus to AC even if you never wind up gaining access to 2nd-level spells.
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2018-11-20, 12:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Last edited by Zaq; 2018-11-20 at 12:23 AM.
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2018-11-20, 02:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Closest thing would be manople. Give up feat for proficiency if you wish to retain AC for attack with it ( otherwise, you can just not attack with it ). It's a weapon that can be treated like a shield ( and not be a shield ). +1 shield bonus to ac. Is a gauntlet you were over your hand that is a sai with 3 blades or something IIRC. Your hand cannot be used for anything whether it is carrying things within it, casting spells or using skills. So you have magic gloves ( like of the uldra ). Just wear the manople OVER it. By RAW, it isn't a shield and doesn't violate monk ac bonus. I coulda sworn there was another weapon, but couldn't find one that fit this criteria.
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2018-11-20, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Another variant of this (and the one that I use for my monk): Wand of Shield (or scrolls if your DM is a stickler), a compatriot with one level or more of arcanist, bloodrager, investigator, magus, occultist, psychic, sorcerer, spiritualist, summoner, or wizard (or, yes, someone with a good chance at a DC 21 UMD check), and a Cracked Vibrant Purple Prism Ioun Stone for 2,000gp. Instant one-minute duration of Shield any time the monk wants it at the cost of one standard action. Just add casting at some point before combat - even days, weeks, or months beforehand.
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2018-11-20, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
A class says "you can wear pretty much nothing", people take it and then come here asking how to wear the things they cannot wear.
Monk is not a class, is a trap. The answer is you should avoid it.
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2018-11-20, 07:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Shield (UMD, Dragonmarked), Force Screen (tattoos, UPD, Hidden Talent). Both of these could be made into a custom continuous item.
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2018-11-20, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
All the newbies who **** on the Monk aren't contributing. OP had a specific question.
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2018-11-20, 09:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
We are not particularly high in optimization, and I am the best optimizer of the party - I picked a monk also to avoid overshadowing other players, though I also had a nice backstory in mind. Plus I got some goodies when we freed a godlike being and he granted us all something wish-like.
Long story short, my character is pretty effective, and does not need any boost. I could not ask for one with a straight face.
It's just that I have a bunch of extra money and I bought all the cheap items, and I was wondering if there was a way to tap into that nice potential source of AC.
So, it seems I will have to look for a custom-made item. Eventually, cause 20thousand is still not that cheap at the moment.
thanks to everyone who gave meaningful answers.
Well, the druid class says you can't cast spells when in animal form, and yet there isn't a single druid who's not casting while wildshaped. Oh, and the rules say that you can't cast in antimagic field, but guess what, there are ways to do just that. And persistent spell says you have to use a slot 6 levels higher, but a lot of people do it for free.
in this game, "you can't do x" simply means "you have to find a circuitous route"; possibly spend a feat or buy a specific item.
Monk is not a class, is a trap. The answer is you should avoid it.In memory of Evisceratus: he dreamed of a better world, but he lacked the class levels to make the dream come true.
Ridiculous monsters you won't take seriously even as they disembowel you
my take on the highly skilled professional: the specialized expert
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2018-11-20, 09:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
I don't know what's your table's opinion on Pathfinder material, specially 3party Pathfinder material but Monk of the Silver Fist can get shield bonus to AC when wearing a gauntlet (even a rope gauntlet).
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2018-11-20, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Couldn't you ask the DM to not interpret the clause about using shields in a less stringent way? Yes, one could make the RAW argument that an Animated Shield would interfere with the Monk's abilities, but I think an argument can be made that RAI one could ignore that.
If that is a no, keep in mind that Animated Shields are susceptible to dispels, too, so getting a Permanent Shield spell isn't strictly worse. I am also pretty sure that a Ring of Force Shield shouldn't interfere with your monk features.
Does the bonus have to be of the Shield type? Since the Monk's armor bonus is untyped, you can add pretty much anything on it. Amulet of Natural Armor, Bracers of Armor and Ring of Protection don't give you a shield bonus, but they still increase your AC, and I would say a Ring of Protection is better than any shield since deflection bonuses apply to touch attacks as well.
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2018-11-20, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
There is an exotic weapon that gives a shield bonus. I'm like 99% sure of it.
These might violate the prohibition on using a shield due to RAW. Manople from sandstorm. also dwarf buckler axe and gnome tortoise blade from races of stone.
This is absolutely RAW allowed: Sang Kauw from OA.Last edited by daremetoidareyo; 2018-11-20 at 09:58 AM.
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2018-11-20, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Monk 1 or 2 / psion or ardent X with force screen and inertial armor would get you more AC than you can shake a monk at.
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2018-11-20, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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2018-11-20, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
No, the difference is that the description of Animated Shield explicitely calls out that you incur the normal penalties for using a shield even if your shield is floating half a foot from you and you aren't physically carrying it. Thus, a case can be made that an Animated Shield would interfere with the "no carrying shields" clause of the Monk's Armor Bonus feature.
The Ring of Force Shield creates a weightless, encumbrance-free Wall of Force which grants a +2 AC bonus to the wearer. It can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a shield, but it clearly doesn't follows the normal rules for shields.
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2018-11-20, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Red Mage avatar by Aedilred.
Where do you fit in? (link fixed)
RedMage Prestige Class!
Best advice I've ever heard one DM give another:
"Remember that it is both a game and a story. If the two conflict, err on the side of cool, your players will thank you for it."
Second Eternal Foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.
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2018-11-20, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
Not exactly what you want, since it isn't a shield bonus, and a bit cheesy, but a +5 Defending shuriken is rather inexpensive. (Iirc, defending doesn't have a melee only limitation, though the srd inexplicably calls it out as a sword in the description.)
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2018-11-20, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk
In addition to what's already been mentioned:
- Gnome Battle Cloak (exotic shield, RoS p.155): "not really a shield" - make of that what you will; although later in the description says "retrieved and readied just like other shields". Probably not going to count.
- Phrenic (template): force screen 1/day.
- Twin Sword Style (regional feat, PGtF p.46): +2 shield bonus against one opponent.
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