What to do with 18, 18, 12, 9, 9, 8 stats

[CTurbo]

Starting at level 3
Single class only


Things I've considered so far-

1. M Dwarf Barb with 20 Str, 12 Dex, 20 Con to start. Stay unarmored and just feat out from there GWM, PAM, Sentinel, ...?

2. 20 Con, 20 Wis Cleric with Res(Con) and/or Warcaster early. Hill Dwarf could have 20/20 and Res(Con) at level 4 which is crazy. Also heavy armor. But which Domain? I love Tempest but have played 4 different Tempests already.

3. Monk starting with 20 Dex and 18 Wis. 12 Con is a bit too low for my liking on a Monk though. This might be a perfect time to bust out that Lizardfolk Monk I've been thinking about. Man I'd hate to "only" start off with 18 Dex and Wis though lol

4. Stone Sorcerer seems interesting concentrating only on Con and Cha. Could take Inspiring Leader at 4 which would be OP having 20 Cha so early

5. Half-Elf something with 18, 18, 12, 10, 10, 10 stats

6. Mountain Dwarf Abjurer with 10 Str, 12 Dex, 20 Con, 18 Int, 9 Wis, 9 Cha. I'd probably drop a +2 Dex at some point right before or right after maxing Int so not as many feats as the others but still awesome build

7. Dex Fighter with 7 or 8 feats lol. Could I even find that many feats? I guess stuff like Alert, Mobile, Lucky, Magic Initiate, and Res are good on every character

8. Something with the PAM + Spell Sniper + Warcaster + Booming Blade

9. High Con Hexblade



What do you guys think? What would you do with such lopsided stats?

[Tawmis]

Starting at level 3
Single class only
What do you guys think? What would you do with such lopsided stats?

Honestly, if this is for you - what are you looking to play, is what it really boils down to.

Is there a character race/class you're interested in playing?

Because it's pointless if you're going to make a race/class character that you're not interested in really playing.

For example, despite my love of D&D - I've never cared for playing any form of Magic User (Wizard, Sorcerer, Warlock, etc).

So for me, those stats would go into something for a Fighter or Ranger type character.

[MaxWilson]

Single class only sort of kills the vibe, otherwise I'd probably make it a warbearian or a monklock. Single class only means two 18s are not much different from rolling a single 17 or 18. I guess I'd probably just make that a Bladesinger, since the best alternative to Bladesinger involves multiclassing, so the chance to play a high-AC wizard is probably fairly rare at that table.

[Trustypeaches]

Starting at level 3
2. 20 Con, 20 Wis Cleric with Res(Con) and/or Warcaster early. Hill Dwarf could have 20/20 and Res(Con) at level 4 which is crazy. Also heavy armor. But which Domain? I love Tempest but have played 4 different Tempests already.

Try out the new Order Domain.

It's an amazing controller / support.

[jdolch]

No one can tell you what you want to play.

I know what I would make but that doesn't mean it's the best for you.

Single-class-only makes the choice somewhat "obvious" since you don't have to deal (or get to deal) with all the nitty gritty combinations. It basically just depends on what you want to play as.

Going through your list i think, that skipped step one and you have no idea what you actually want to play, that is something you have to get clear on first. Optimizing is step 2, not step 1.

The only thing to keep in mind is that you only have 2 stats to work with here. Even the 12 can be considered a dump stat.
So it's probably not a good Idea to choose something that depends on 3 stats.

Edit: Is multiclassing out for ever or just as a start and you can multiclass later ?

[Xrposiedon]

The choice is obvious, a tortle. Barbarian or Monk if you are looking to optimize. However, the ac bonus from tortle will give you room to go other classes.

[CTurbo]

Ok fine show me some multiclass options

[jdolch]

Well what do you want to play? Tank, melee DD, ranged DD, Healer, Caster ?

If you don't care and just want to go for power, here is a good chart:

PetenutButter's Ultimate Optimizer's Multiclassing Guide

But i still think you should sit back, throw on your thinking cap and try to figure out what you actually want to play. There is about a gazillion good builds that you can do with those stats.

Here is ONE possible (very powerful) example:

Start as Paladin2/Hexblade Warlock1. From Paladin you get Heavy Armor and all Weapon Profs. You also get Divine Smite. From Warlock you get Hexblade's Curse and Hex-Warrior. That makes you use only CHA and CON for basically anything important, STR becomes irrelevant except you need 13 to multiclass in the first place. With Half-Elf as Race you come out at: STR(13) DEX(9) CON(19) INT(8) WIS(9) CHA(20). From there either take another Warlock level for Agonizing Blast + Eldritch Blast combo or immediately go Paladin until you reach Paladin6/Warlock1(2). This gives you Aura of protection with +5 on all saving throws for you and everyone in 10ft radius. Take Warcaster as first feat, so you can cast with a Shield equipped and your Concentration is less easy interrupted. From there go Sorcerer all the way.

Here is a good Guide for that Multi-Class. The only variation you'll be doing is going Hexblade Warlock 1. That is necessary because you only have 2 good Attributes. Sorcadin need CHA/STR/CON. With one level in Hexblade you cut out STR (apart from 13 minimum) and then it fits with your stats. Having a 20 in CHA makes you pretty strong when you do that.

Unlimited Blade Works The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

Thematically you can go in several directions with this.
(Special mention: Hexblade is not evil. Maybe a bit Emo, but that depends on how you fluff it.)
One option is to go Devotion Paladin/Divine Soul Sorcerer and make Hexblade a necessary compromise you had to make. This could even play into your characters flaw.
Another option is to take a more gritty Paladin Oath like Vengeance or Conquest and then lean heavily into the Hexblade Lore and double down on it by going Shadow Sorcerer.

That's definitely ONE of the most powerful things you can do with this. Not the only one, but a strong option.

[djreynolds]

You got 2 18s.

Mountain dwarf paladin of devotion
20, 8, 14, 9, 9, 18

Grab GWM at 4th

Grab magic initiate for a ranged cantrip at 8th

At 12th, if you find a magic glaive grab PAM or take resilient con

16th max chr

[jdolch]

Mountain dwarf paladin of devotion
20, 8, 14, 9, 9, 18

Grab GWM at 4th

Grab magic initiate for a ranged cantrip at 8th

I like the Mountain Dwarf angle but the ranged cantrip is kinda ugh. How about PolearmMaster and Sentinel?

If you really want that ranged cantrip, 1 level of Caster (e.g. Warlock or Sorcerer because of CHA) is the way to go. It only delays the feat by one level and doesn't completely waste it. And you get a BUNCH of goodies on top of that.

[dgnslyr]

Ok fine show me some multiclass options

TL, DR: Pick your favorite full-caster and take it straight to 20.

Do you really need to, at this point?

With two phenomenal stats and four mediocre ones, you should be looking at a class that only cares about two stats - in other words, most casters. With two 18s and a feat on the way, I'd look for a race that gives a +2 to a casting stat, and a +1 in CON, so you can even out your CON with Resilient(CON) next level.

Dwarf Cleric has already been mentioned, but due to the way the ability score increases work out, you won't actually get the 20/20 scores you want. If you really want to play a cleric, you can play a VHuman cleric instead, so you have an extra half-feat to bump up your WIS to 20; Observant is a good choice, for example, since you'll always have to deal with Spot checks. Without much Strength, you'll have a hard time cracking heads without taking either Nature or Strength domain so you can get Shillelagh from the Druid cantrip list - I personally prefer Strength since you won't always be around nature, but you will always be making attack rolls. Otherwise, if you'd rather hang in the back and blast, you can take either Tempest or Light and be sickeningly effective without ever getting into close quarters.

So that leaves Half-Elf and Abyssal Tiefling as the two races that actually fulfill the desired condition - you can pick whichever you prefer, although Half-Elf gets access to Elven Accuracy, which is pretty strong. They're also both CHA-increasing races, so your choice of classes are going to be Sorcerer and Bard. I'm personally of the belief that Bard is probably the strongest and most versatile class in the game, since they're good at everything, but Sorcerer is up there too in terms of power.

In terms of builds, there are a lot of good choices.

You could go straight Lore Bard to 20 and be a high-powered support caster that can pretty much shut down any given enemy in any given encounter - not bad.

If you really want to hit things, you can dip into Hexblade Warlock for armor and Hex Warrior, and even pick up the Blade cantrips - Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade. The cantrip scaling makes up for your lack of Extra Attacks, too. War caster should be your next feat, though, or else you'll have a hard time casting with your hands full.

Sorcerer to 20 is fine as well, although dipping into Paladin is also an option. It's not as appealing without Hexblade to really turn on your weapon attacks, though, and that's a lot of multiclassing for a slow payoff, so I wouldn't recommend it given the circumstances. There aren't a lot of wrong choices if you decide to go straight Sorcerer 20, though.

Another race/class combination that gets 20/20 attributes is Rock Gnome Wizard. It's the same deal as above, and you can play it however you want.

The last thing you can do is play a VHuman and spend your free first feat on Resilient(CON) and your next one on any half-feat that increases your casting stat. Combined with your Human ability score increases, this also gets you the 20/20 statline, and opens you up to any casting class, including WIS-based ones.

General feats to consider as you progress include Magic Initiate(Wizard) for Owlvantage, War Caster, and Elven Accuracy.

I can't think of a really great reason to multiclass - martial characters typically need more than two stats, high as they are, and casters don't want to delay spell progression. And despite what anyone might say, no matter how much has changed since 3.5, casters are still king, even if the floor is higher and the ceiling is lower.

[jdolch]

TL, DR: Pick your favorite full-caster and take it straight to 20.

You can't TL;DR a topic this complex, especially if you yourself just wrote a wall of text about it.

With two phenomenal stats and four mediocre ones, you should be looking at a class that only cares about two stats - in other words, most casters.

No, not "in other words, most casters". Again you are oversimplifying things. Fighter for example needs only 2 Stats: Either STR and CON or DEX and CON. Is he a Caster? I don't think so and that is just one example.

I can't think of a really great reason to multiclass -

And yet you gave 2 good reasons in this very post alone. I named another one a few posts earlier.

[lunaticfringe]

Warforged Envoy Monk Way Your Choice. 18 Dex, 18 Wis, 14 Con, 10/10/8 the rest.

Technically Vehicles(Land) are a tool. Integrate a humble Cart & transform into the party's u-haul trailer.

[dgnslyr]

You can't TL;DR a topic this complex, especially if you yourself just wrote a wall of text about it.



No, not "in other words, most casters". Again you are oversimplifying things. Fighter for example needs only 2 Stats: Either STR and CON or DEX and CON. Is he a Caster? I don't think so and that is just one example.



And yet you gave 2 good reasons in this very post alone. I named another one a few posts earlier.

I think the builds mentioned without multiclassing are better than the ones with, in an absolute sense, but it's still an option if you want to be a charisma-based caster that can also crack heads in melee.

I guess a heavy-armored Fighter also only cares about two stats, but you're also stuck playing a fighter - the greatest lie ever told in D&D is giving you the choice of being A Person Who Hits Things and A Person Who Shapes The Very Fabric Of Reality and pretending they're somehow equal and equivalent. Compared to 3.5, the floor is higher and the ceiling is lower, but the gap is still pretty massive. It's fun to have choices, and nobody has more choices than full casters, I think.

As for the TL;DR, I like to think of it as an abstract for the post, and abstracts go in the beginning so you know what you're getting into before grinding through a whole wall of text.

[Aett_Thorn]

Gnome Barbarian. With those stats you’ll be fine on the physical side (especially after an ASI or two). And Gnome covers the mental weaknesses by giving you advantage on most mental saves. Go Forest Gnome or Svirfneblin for 18 13 18 9 10 9 stats, and even up Dex at level 4 with a half feat.

[supergoji18]

Half-Elf Paladin looks promising

go 18 Strength and Charisma, 12 in Con, and the rest wherever you like. You'll have 20 Charisma right off the bat, so when your spellcasting is pretty strong and your aura (when you eventually get it) gives you a full +5 bonus to saving throws. Your first ASI can be used to bump up strength, and from there you're good to go.

Sorcadin is also an option, but since you said single class only I'm assuming you don't want to do so.

[MilkmanDanimal]

Starting with two 18s gives you the opportunity for more fun, non-optimized combos. This is your opportunity to play a Tabaxi Wizard, Gnome Champion, or some other goofy combo. Hexblade is a bit more CON and DEX dependent for defense, but play a Bugbear blastlock. You get weird options here, do something strange.

[KorvinStarmast]

Half Elf Monk (Any Way ....)
S 10 D 18 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 18, Ch 10
First ASI to Con at level 4. Dex or Wis to 20 at level 8.
No minuses.
Background: Acolyte
Skill Proficiencies (A) Insight, Religion (M) Acrobatics, Stealth ; (1/2 E) Perception, Persuasion.
Languages (additional) (A): Two of your choice (pick two that fit your world)

Equipment: A holy symbol⁠ (a gift to you when you entered the priesthood), a prayer book or prayer wheel, 5 sticks of incense, vestments, a set of Common clothes, and a pouch containing 15 gp.

This is sorta handy:

Feature: Shelter of the Faithful; ... you command⁠ the respect of those who share your faith, and you can perform the religious ceremonies of your deity. You and your Adventuring companions can expect to receive free Healing and care at a temple, shrine, or other established presence of your faith, though you must provide any material Components needed for Spells. Those who share your Religion will support you (but only you) at a modest lifestyle.

There is a lot of neat RP potential if you are a traveling agent for your order/deity/religion/temple.

[Willie the Duck]

Things I've considered so far-
1. M Dwarf Barb with 20 Str, 12 Dex, 20 Con to start.
2. 20 Con, 20 Wis Cleric with Res(Con) and/or Warcaster early.
3. Monk starting with 20 Dex and 18 Wis.
4. Stone Sorcerer seems interesting concentrating only on Con and Cha.
5. Half-Elf something with 18, 18, 12, 10, 10, 10 stats
6. Mountain Dwarf Abjurer with 10 Str, 12 Dex, 20 Con, 18 Int, 9 Wis, 9 Cha. . Dex Fighter with 7 or 8 feats
8. Something with the PAM + Spell Sniper + Warcaster + Booming Blade
9. High Con Hexblade

Well, you've done a good job of describing a bunch of 'lean into' builds, but what about 'lean out of' builds? You have two 18s, which is where a bunch of point-buy or array style games are at level 8 if you pick the right race to get two 16s in the right place at level 1. You get to be good from the jump even though you don't choose the optimal race! Now's your chance to play a Str-based Halfling fighter (Str/Con 18), the hill dwarf paladin (with 18 Str or Dex, 14 Con, 18 Cha), the Yuan ti Monk, or whatever weird concept you've had floating in the back of your head. Provided it doesn't need 18/18/14+ where the racial bonuses don't support the 14 (as you said in #3, a 12 Con Monk can be problematic), you're golden.

[CTurbo]

Hey thanks for all the answers. I'm seeing some really fun stuff.

I am a very experienced player and character creation an development is possibly favorite aspect of the game. I could sit down and create a dozen awesome characters in 20-30 minutes, but that's almost more of a curse than a blessing because I'm so damn indecisive about choosing just one to play with lol. That's why I like seeing other peoples' opinions too.

I do LOVE playing the odd race/class combo and this really is the perfect time to make that happen, but at the same time, it's rare to have the opportunity to start out with a 20/20(or close to it) max stat character too.

I don't hate multiclassing I just don't like that most everybody seems to think that every character has to be multiclassed.

I don't know why but I personally don't like the Shillelagh or Hexblade abilities of being able to use your casting stat to attack with. I'm sure these stats would make an amazing Dwarf Nature Cleric or +2 Ch any race Hexblade, and I would consider running a full class Hexblade, but I will NEVER make a Hexadin no matter how much synergy there is. I just hate the idea of it. Maybe I just don't like how broken that Hex + everything combo is. I dunno.

I do like my characters to be a little tougher than normal so I kinda like the idea of starting with 18-20 in Con, but I'm not sold on the idea.

Would also like to make a character that relies on holding concentration which Cleric is the first thing that comes to mind. Having 20 Con + Warcaster and maybe even Res(Con) would be crazy.


Anyway keep the ideas coming. I still have over a week to decide.

[Willie the Duck]

I don't know why but I personally don't like the Shillelagh or Hexblade abilities of being able to use your casting stat to attack with. I'm sure these stats would make an amazing Dwarf Nature Cleric or +2 Ch any race Hexblade, and I would consider running a full class Hexblade, but I will NEVER make a Hexadin no matter how much synergy there is. I just hate the idea of it. Maybe I just don't like how broken that Hex + everything combo is. I dunno.

I agree. I wouldn't mind it in a version of the game where you could not grab such things by dipping or the various cantrip-borrowing abilities (bard, tomelock, magic initiate). Basically if Shillelagh were something specific to druids and nature clerics, for instance. Likewise, I probably wouldn't mind Hexblades if 1) it weren't a clear and obvious attempt to fix bladelocks, and 2) the #1 people taking hexblades were paladins taking a dip for it and a ranged attack.

Honestly, Cha-synergy classes have ruined a lot of things for me. I like half-elves. I like Paladins, Bards, Sorcerers, and 5e warlocks (in isolation). While we're at it, I also like halberds (just to pile on things ruined by being the obvious go-to things). But because the obvious way to make a straightforward Power Build (tm) is some combination of these components, they are kinda ruined for me for this edition. I'll play a single class (non-1/2 elf) bard or paladin or tomelock or a fighter1/non-hexblade bladelock or a half-elven fighter-rogue (or halberd wielder without PAM), but not with too many of the pieces fitting together.

[Wildarm]

Double 18 start is good for any build you want. Probably want to lean toward feat heavy builds or MAD builds.

Mountain Dwarf Fighter would be my first choice - 20 STR/CON - Grab PAM/GWM by level 6 and go to town
V Human Forge Cleric - Choose Heavy Armor Master at Level 1 - Start with 20 STR. Grab Observant at Level 4 to round out WIS. Super tanky and a full caster to boot.
Half Elf Hexblade Crit Fisher - 10 Str, 13 Dex, 19 Con, 8 Int, 9 Wis, 20 Cha - Round out Dex to 14 with Elven Accuracy at LV4. Round out Con to 20 with Res(CON) at Lv8
High Elf Bladesinger - 8 Str, 20 Dex, 12 Con, 19 Int, 9 Wis, 9 Cha - Round out Int to 20 with Elven Accuracy at LV4. Hello 23 AC /w Mage Armor at Level 4. 28 with Shield.
V Human Sentinel Barb 1/Rogue X - 13 Str, 19 Dex, 18 Con, 9 Int, 9 Wis, 8 Cha - Sentinel at Lv1, Bump Dex/Str or Wis at Level 5, Warcaster at 9 - High HP Melee Rogue who can potentially get sneak attack damage in twice a round with reaction. Unarmored AC of 21 with Rapier/Shield. Take Booming Blade as arcane trickster to increase DPS and provide more stickiness.

[strangebloke]

Wood Elf Kensei.

start with 19 AC. You can dodge as a bonus action.

Level 3, you can add 2 to your AC on each turn, for 21 AC.

At level four you can grab Observant or Elven Accuracy and get your AC up to 22. Alternately, just grab Wood Elf magic and become a stealth master over night.

Then at level five your stunning strikes have DC 16 which is absurd at that level.

Bracers of defense for another 2 AC gets you to 24. Cloak of Resistance gets you to 25. Remember, you can still dodge as a bonus action. Once you finally get Diamond Soul, you'll be basically untouchable.

HP will be a bit low, but eh.

[RSP]

Bladesinger. I’d go Eladrin, but up to you. Start with 8 Str, 18 (20) Dex, 18 Con, 9 Int, 12 Wis, 9 (10) Cha.

Get a Headband of Intellect at first chance to bump that Int to 19. Without ASIs spent you’re at 20 Dex, 18 Con and 19 Int.

If no magic items, this might not work as well...

[Teaguethebean]

I would argue you could play a very effective Hob goblin wizard putting in your stats as 8 18 14 19 9 9 perhaps on an asi you can bump up int and con then grab resilient con and then go wild with feats. You get with studded leather a 16 ac +3 con +5 int perhaps using some martial finesse weapons and you could truly be a versatile threat whichever school you like would be fine.

[CTurbo]

I actually thought about a Tortle Wizard probably abjurer.

I'm still thinking about a Lizardfolk Monk.

Also thought about a Warforged Sorcerer Blaster and reflavoring the magic as weapon technology.

The Gnome Barb was a great idea, but I've been a Hafling Barb before.

EK Fighter with PAM, Warcaster, Spell Sniper and Booming Blade sounds fun. Could have that up and running at level 6.

[Sception]

Mountain dwarf paladin of conquest, 20 str, 14 con, 18 cha, +2 cha at lvl 4, resilient [con] at level 8, further asi's any combination of magic initiate/spell sniper (for ranged cantrip), inspiring presance, sentinel, shield master. If UA is allowed, take menacing at 4, +1 cha/+1 con at 8, resilient con at 12, any of the previously mentioned pile after that.

Grab the heaviest armor and shield you can find, lock down enemies with fear spells and control aura, shove them over and smash them with a hammer. Very satisfying, high party utility as a cc/tank without overshadowing your allies with massive damage, and cha skills let you take a central part in role play scenes. Plus its got that great moody edge lord /dark knight vibe.

It's an extremely fun subclass, and one that usually doesnt get to play with as many feats as you'll get, due to the split attack stats. Certainly not without multiclassing, which comes at the cost of delayed progression and a lost capstone.

[bid]

3. Monk starting with 20 Dex and 18 Wis. 12 Con is a bit too low for my liking on a Monk though. This might be a perfect time to bust out that Lizardfolk Monk I've been thinking about. Man I'd hate to "only" start off with 18 Dex and Wis though lol

That's the perfect time to pull out the hill dwarf monk.
AC18 + Con14 + extra hp is more than enough. (8 18 14 9 19 9)

[CTurbo]

I'm seriously considering an Aarakocra Totem Barbarian starting 18 Str, 14 Dex, 18 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 9 Cha

Eagle Totem at 3,
Mobile at 4,
Eagle Totem at 6,
Res(Wis) at 8,
+2 Str at 12,
and either Elk or Tiger at 14

Go unarmored, probably use a Spear because I like the flavor, but willing to consider other options. I'd like Ritual Caster at 16(I like Ritual Caster on Fighters and Barbs), but I wouldn't technically qualify.

[Prophet_of_Io]

Wood Elf Monk?

8 20 12 9 19 9

High dex and wisdom give you good initiative and perception. Monk gives you an AC of 19. I guess Barbarian with Con does virtually the same with better damage but I'll throw out Monk as a class I don't see played a lot that you could probably have a lot of fun with. No Int or Cha because they've lived their entire life in a Monestary.