General Food Discussions

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Oh wow I didn't know that!

Thank you for dropping some knowledge on me @Grey_Wolf_c!

That actually makes Spanish Flamenco seem like an equivalent to American Blues/Jazz/Ragtime/R&B/Rock n' Roll to me, an art "gifted" to a nation by a minority within it which is then gifted to the world.

Like cuisine.

But Blues and Jazz (and, say, Rap) are not "American music", they are to this day "African American music". That's my point. And Flamenco isn't "Spanish music", it is "Spanish Roma music". It wasn't gifted to Spain, who then gave it to the world. It was the Roma people themselves who slowly expanded their reach beyond national boundaries.

Similarly, (Razade's thesis aside), BBQ shouldn't be claimed to be American cuisine if it was in fact African American cuisine (again, assuming it was; it seems it might not be).

Rock and Roll is a good example, though - there is quite the heavy baggage to go with its history. I became most familiar with the topic because of Back to the Future, and the bad taste it left in certain segments when some white kid teaches Chuck Berry how to Rock & Roll. It is a perfect encapsulation of the whole problem - but I'm not qualified to talk about it, so I mention it just so you can do your own research into the issue.

Grey Wolf

[Florian]

I think Wolfs point needs a bit of explanation.

Continental Europe went thru a hard phase of cultural consolidation and recognizing ethnicity-based cultural values and heritages. We don't have any problems accepting and incorporating certain things, but we make sure to never try to shift the ownership of that thing to us, at least since the world wars.

Simply put, we don't have the "melting pot" situation and actually tread that as a faux-pas. For me as a German, popular dishes from Austria, Hungary or Italy are just that and have to be respected in their way.

[Peelee]

But Blues and Jazz (and, say, Rap) are not "American music", they are to this day "African American music". That's my point. And Flamenco isn't "Spanish music", it is "Spanish Roma music". It wasn't gifted to Spain, who then gave it to the world. It was the Roma people themselves who slowly expanded their reach beyond national boundaries.

Similarly, (Razade's thesis aside), BBQ shouldn't be claimed to be American cuisine if it was in fact African American cuisine (again, assuming it was; it seems it might not be).

Rock and Roll is a good example, though - there is quite the heavy baggage to go with its history. I became most familiar with the topic because of Back to the Future, and the bad taste it left in certain segments when some white kid teaches Chuck Berry how to Rock & Roll. It is a perfect encapsulation of the whole problem - but I'm not qualified to talk about it, so I mention it just so you can do your own research into the issue.

Grey Wolf

American cuisine is broken up by region, often. BBQ is also classified as Southern food, if that makes it more palatable for you.

Also, by the way Back to the Future works, Chuck Berry only got that from Marty in the new timeline; in the original timeline there was no Marty McFly in 1955, yet he still came up with it. And to be fair, Marvin was certainly dialed into what Chuck was looking for, since he immediately notified him when he heard it.

Lastly, I'm a big fan of the melting pot ideology, and dislike separating "American" and "African American" in situations like this. We're all Americans over here.

[Sholos]

Foodies, rate this salad comp, please:

Arugula
Spinach
Chickpeas
Grape tomatoes
Edamame
Apples
Basalmic vinaigrette

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Lastly, I'm a big fan of the melting pot ideology, and dislike separating "American" and "African American" in situations like this. We're all Americans over here.

African Americans disagree. And [politics] means I accept their arguments on this matter. Although, as I said, I am hardly an authority on the subject.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

African Americans disagree.

A portion do. A portion do not. There are issue with it, sure, but there are also good things. I agree that that's about as much as we should go into it, which is a shame, because I think I'd enjoy discussing it with you.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

A portion do. A portion do not. There are issue with it, sure, but there are also good things. I agree that that's about as much as we should go into it, which is a shame, because I think I'd enjoy discussing it with you.

As always, we'll add it to the list if I ever find myself in Alabama, I suppose.

I hear you have a guest house, even

Grey Wolf

[Anonymouswizard]

I think Wolfs point needs a bit of explanation.

Continental Europe went thru a hard phase of cultural consolidation and recognizing ethnicity-based cultural values and heritages. We don't have any problems accepting and incorporating certain things, but we make sure to never try to shift the ownership of that thing to us, at least since the world wars.

Simply put, we don't have the "melting pot" situation and actually tread that as a faux-pas. For me as a German, popular dishes from Austria, Hungary or Italy are just that and have to be respected in their way.

Bare in mind that America has been at war surprisingly few times, I'm telling you that's not healthy for a continent.

Anyway, I'm off to cook sweet sweet cultural appropriation curry. If you want a real curry go to India, they seem to have a better idea.

[Peelee]

As always, we'll add it to the list if I ever find myself in Alabama, I suppose.

I hear you have a guest house, even

Grey Wolf

It's very nice, despite our contractor's best efforts. I kid. There were issues, but he's a great guy.
ETA:

I think Wolfs point needs a bit of explanation.

Continental Europe went thru a hard phase of cultural consolidation and recognizing ethnicity-based cultural values and heritages. We don't have any problems accepting and incorporating certain things, but we make sure to never try to shift the ownership of that thing to us, at least since the world wars.

Simply put, we don't have the "melting pot" situation and actually tread that as a faux-pas. For me as a German, popular dishes from Austria, Hungary or Italy are just that and have to be respected in their way.

You say that, but then like half a dozen countries claim spaetzle is theirs.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Bare in mind that America has been at war surprisingly too ??? times, I'm telling you that's not healthy for a continent.

(??? mine)

You seem to be missing a word there. Too few, or too many?

(Yesterday I learnt about the time the US invaded Mexico in 1914)

Grey Wolf

[the_brazenburn]

Foodies, rate this salad comp, please:

Arugula
Spinach
Chickpeas
Grape tomatoes
Edamame
Apples
Basalmic vinaigrette

Sounds amazing except for the chickpeas. I never liked chickpeas in salad, otherwise I'd eat that.

With balsamic salads, I like to use goat cheese or walnuts (or both).

[JeenLeen]

EDIT: I somehow missed a page 2 of his discussion before posting, so sorry if the below seems a bit non-sequitur at this point


On American BBQ, I think BBQ can vary drastically depending on region. I know there's variety on what is the appropriate type of BBQ sauce (mustard vs. vinegar vs. ketchup-based, I think... but I can't keep straight which I prefer). There's also a difference in meat.

My wife grew up in south Texas right by the border, and to her BBQ meant chicken, maybe beef brisket. Where I am (the 'South'), it usually means pulled pork. You can get brisket or chicken BBQ here, but it's usually not as good as the pork since it's not the focus.

I can't comment too much on the quality, though. I have found a dissatisfaction for meats when the meat is rather flavorless itself but just the BBQ sauce adds the flavor. That can be good, but I'd rather have some meat with flavor (even if from soaking in a marinade or herbs).

(As to chicken, I don't have anywhere near as many reference points, but I understand that in the US, you only eat white meat chicken, exporting the brown meat to other countries - especially Russia, IIRC - which tells me right there that your chicken is also likely completely bland).

I think most chicken dishes use the breast meat, but if you get fried chicken, you can get the dark meat pretty easily.
When I was a kid, I liked the white meat, but now I find it rather flavorless. It can be doing really tastey, but it's hard to find it not just bland and a touch dry.

[the_brazenburn]

(Yesterday I learnt about the time the US invaded Mexico in 1914)

That was... complicated.

To be fair, a Mexican warlord had attacked American settlements. We were also aware that there was a possibility that Mexico could have joined Germany and invaded us, as would later become the impetus for joining the war with the Zimmerman Telegram. We were worried that this was a preemptive strike against us.

[Peelee]

I completely missed the chicken discussion. I, for one, am a huge fan of dang near everyone here loving white meat, as it drives down the price of the dark, which actually tastes good. I eat better for cheaper because of those schmucks. Couldn't ask for a better arrangement.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

To be fair, a Mexican warlord had attacked American settlements. We were also aware that there was a possibility that Mexico could have joined Germany and invaded us, as would later become the impetus for joining the war with the Zimmerman Telegram. We were worried that this was a preemptive strike against us.

You must be talking about a different time the US invaded Mexico, because the one I'm thinking was caused by the US sending 9 soldiers who didn't speak Spanish on a supply run from a US ship to a city under siege during the Mexican civil war by rowboat. One of the sides arrested them (including, crucially, two that were left on the boat), not being sure what the heck they were doing there, took them to a guy that spoke English, who figured it out and released them. The US demanded an apology involving hoisting the US flag over Mexican territory (and a 21 gun salute), Mexico said "no", and the US invaded.

(Source: Revolutions podcast)

Grey Wolf

[the_brazenburn]

You must be talking about a different time the US invaded Mexico, because the one I'm thinking was caused by the US sending 9 soldiers who didn't speak Spanish on a supply run from a US ship to a city under siege by rowboat. One of the sides arrested them (including, crucially, two that were left on the boat), not being sure what the heck they were doing there, took them to a guy that spoke English, who figured it out and released them. The US demanded an apology involving hoisting the US flag over Mexican territory (and a 21 gun salute), Mexico said "no", and the US invaded.

(Source: Revolutions podcast)

Grey Wolf

You are correct. I was thinking of the more famous Punitive Raid against Pancho Villa two years later.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

You are correct. I was thinking of the more famous Punitive Raid against Pancho Villa.

I must not have got to that bit yet. As of the last episode, Pancho Villa is still the US's darling.

No spoilers, please.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

That's the most American thing I've heard in a while. I love it.

[Florian]

Foodies, rate this salad comp, please:

Arugula
Spinach
Chickpeas
Grape tomatoes
Edamame
Apples
Basalmic vinaigrette

The list alone doesn't really help, sorry.

[Peelee]

The list alone doesn't really help, sorry.

Put it in a bowl and shake it all up?

[halfeye]

Bare in mind that America has been at war surprisingly few times, I'm telling you that's not healthy for a continent.

Anyway, I'm off to cook sweet sweet cultural appropriation curry. If you want a real curry go to India, they seem to have a better idea.

India doesn't do curry, that name is a British invention (all the spices are indian, they just call the dishes korma, tandori, etc, not curry).

However, my main linguistic complaint is that there are two spellings of bare/bear. The animal spelling is also the one for lifting things. So it's bear in mind, as in carry in mind, not take the clothes off in mind.

[Florian]

Put it in a bowl and shake it all up?

Nah. It depends on what exactly is in the lead and which ingredient is there for the flavor.

You can make it rather middle east/northern african style with a focus on the chickpeas, you could go for a rather Waldorf-style with a focus on the apples or classic french-style, which is basically what you mean. The results will be quite different.

[Peelee]

Nah. It depends on what exactly is in the lead and which ingredient is there for the flavor.

You can make it rather middle east/northern african style with a focus on the chickpeas, you could go for a rather Waldorf-style with a focus on the apples or classic french-style, which is basically what you mean. The results will be quite different.

I vote for Peelee style, which is ditching everything but the tomatoes and then chomping on tomatoes until they're gone. I really love me some crisp grape tomatoes.

Anyway, I figure the list is descending in order of concentration.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

Has anyone here had capybara? The reason I ask this is a bit hard to explain so please don't ask. All I'll say is that it comes from me trying to learn how to say soy sauce brazed capybara in Chinese.

[GloatingSwine]

First mistake right there. Every restaurant in Texas claims they have the "best barbecue in Texas." Hell, Waffle House likely has a sign saying "best barbecue in Texas." You never listen to a place that says "best barbecue in [state];" sure, it'll be true for a few, but it's largely a meaningless statement.

Statistically it can only be true for one...

[Peelee]

Statistically it can only be true for one...

Actually it can only be a natural number, since it's conceivable that multiple places could taste the same or equivalent. And taste is subjective, so whole the majority may agree on one or more, an individual may disagree.

Plus, there's the legal precedent of puffery, in any event. Sorry, Grey Wolf, the United States holds the position that you could not reasonably believe that was the best barbecue in Texas.

[Razade]

African Americans disagree. And [politics] means I accept their arguments on this matter. Although, as I said, I am hardly an authority on the subject.

Grey Wolf

African Americans aren't a monolith and not all of them disagree. It's also really weird that, arguing to segregate culture as you are, you're the one taking up the argument when you're neither African, American or African American. You at least offer you're not an authority or qualified (in the post about how a very complex subject as the evolution of music) but it rings sort of hollow when you're...still making the argument and trying to back it up with an appeal to race.

Jazz and Blues (and...rap...that you added for some reason even though rap traces its roots not just back to Jazz and Blues but vaudeville and skaldic traditions) like BBQ have a deep history with a lot of hands in the pot so to speak. The United States is a culture of immigrants, immigrants who brought their cultures with them and had to blend them in with other cultures to fit.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

you're neither African, American or African American.

I do love when people tell me what I am and not am over the Internet.

By all means, enlighten me. On what basis do you state I am not African?

Grey Wolf

[Razade]

I do love when people tell me what I am and not am over the Internet.

By all means, enlighten me. On what basis do you state I am not African?

Grey Wolf

Hey, I'll own up to that one! Can't say you're not African. You're not American though, by your own words and thus not African American. Doesn't invalidate the rest either.

[Sholos]

I vote for Peelee style, which is ditching everything but the tomatoes and then chomping on tomatoes until they're gone. I really love me some crisp grape tomatoes.

Anyway, I figure the list is descending in order of concentration.

Not a bad idea for a snack on the go, actually...

The salad is about equal parts spinach and arugula, then about a half cup each of the others, all mixed together in a bowl with the dressing.