Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 91
  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    Warlock is a pretty good class on its own
    Quote Originally Posted by Callak_Remier View Post
    Warlock 1-20 is just fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    I have played warlocks as high as 18th level. They work great.
    To echo what several others have already said by this point:

    Don't let the groupthink fool you; straight class Warlocks are good.

    Let's try an example:



    Let's say you just hit level 5 with a bog-standard blaster fiend/tomelock. The multiclass guy doesn't even have third level spell slots yet. In fact they might not even have an ASI yet. You, on the other hand, can toss out 6 fireballs in a standard adventuring day (vs a Wizard's 3). And you have 19 AC, because it only took 1 half-feat for you to get there, unlike the other arcane casters (who usually don't qualify due to lack of light armor). And you have a constantly regenerating 9 temp HP buffer. And you have an Agonizing Repelling Eldritch Blast knocking people around 20 feet at a time for healthy damage and good CC. And you have cantrips and rituals known from every class.

    So here you are, riding around on your Phantom Steed, knocking people back with Agonizing Repelling Eldritch Blasts with an 8-hour Hex, and half of the Monster Manual can't even get in range to fight you in any meaningful capacity if you have space to maneuver. And if they can get in on you, you have 19 AC, regenerating temp HP, and tools like Shillelagh/Booming Blade or, you know, your actual spell slots.

    Also, in a real game, you basically can get long-term buffs for free. Start your morning by casting Hex then take a short rest... it'll be there for 7 hours after you get up (or 23 hours later on).



    It's not just at level 5 either. You just keep gettin' better.

    Dark One's Own Luck at 6 gives you an average +5.5 to saving throws or ability checks (LIKE INITIATIVE) when you need it, and you do it after seeing the initial roll. And you do that once every short rest! This puts abilities like Indomitable to shame. Heck, you can even combine it with the fact that you get Guidance for another +2.5 (on average) to your Initiative. Maybe toss on Alert since you've got extra ASIs over those multiclassing folks. So here I am with an average of +16 to initiative (and I only have to blow a resource if I see that someone else rolled higher than me). And I can use my stealth and social skills to try to maneuver myself into situations where I can get Surprise, so that I can go twice before Team Monster does, with all of my blasting potential, so that the enemy is dead before anyone else even acts.

    Fiendish Resilience at 10 gives you resistance against whatever damage type you want. And you can change what type it is not even every long rest, but every short rest. As if you weren't already resilient enough for a caster.

    And then at 14 you get Hurl Through Hell. If any of your Eldritch Blasts hit, you can just tack on an extra 10d10 psychic damage and, even more importantly, Banish them with no save for a round. Goodbye, Legendary Resistance boss fight! It's only once per day but it doesn't need to be any more than that. This is a straight up boss-killer.

    By high levels, you're swimming in resources. 8 Invocations. An Eldritch Blast that's better CC and damage than some actual spell slots from other classes. 4 5th level spell slots. 1 6th level, 1 7th level, 1 8th level, and 1 9th level. 7 cantrips known. Hurl Through Hell. Every ritual. And that's all before you take a single short rest.



    So yeah. The Warlock dip builds are good, but that doesn't preclude the single-classed Warlock from also being good.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2018-12-03 at 02:54 AM. Reason: Line formatting

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Cerefel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Probably somewhere
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexacia View Post
    But barring martial Hexblade (a decidedly non-spellcaster-oriented build and an actually-good build at that, unlike caster-oriented Warlock), a Sorlock does all of this and does it better. That's the problem. The thread you're in is literally titled "Is Warlock a dip only class in general" and all but one of your criteria is either satisfied or satisficed by a Warlock dip attached to a real primary caster. And that sole exception as I said both in this post and earlier in this thread is indeed the only proper use case for a monoclass Warlock that isn't strictly superseded by a Warlock dip.

    Warlock doesn't have the resources to exercise this much-vaunted versatility, and everyone singing its praises in this fashion always conveniently fails to acknowledge that.
    Even if a multiclass build does all of those things better, that wouldn't make a full warlock any less functional in an adventuring party. Even if there's a more optimal build, straight warlock is perfectly viable and plenty of fun. Though for the record, I do think some of those roles are better filled by a pure warlock.
    I'm a vestige!

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    JakOfAllTirades's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    The Summer Court
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    1) They get up to 9ths. Their 6th-9th slots are special, called Mystic Arcanum, but yeah, they get 9ths.

    2) That's true of a lot of classes. The idea is that you can get your concept ready soon, rather than waiting till level 14 or whatever.

    3) Yeah, that's a problem for Monks and Fighters (though Fighters to a lesser extent) too.

    And yes, there is. If you have a wide variety of adventuring days, you get more spells with oomph than any other caster, as well as a lot of at-will abilities.
    This is exactly what I was going to say, so thank you.
    I CAN EXPLAIN IT FOR YOU, BUT I CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT FOR YOU.


  4. - Top - End - #34
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Astofel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    New Zealand
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    If warlock was a dip-only class they wouldn't have made 20 levels of it.

    Beyond that I can really only echo what others have said. All the warlocks I've played and seen in play have performed fine, they are perfectly apt at performing their role. Not sure why sorlocks also being able to do the same things is relevant, they're still part warlock after all and it's not like even other classes aren't allowed to overlap in Things They Can Do. Plus a lot of the sorlock's infamous power comes from a broken exploit that will cause many DMs to question your place at their table.
    Thank you to Honest Tiefling for my awesome avatar!

    Spoiler: Astofel's Simple Rules for a Happy Life
    Show

    1. Always stop to pet a cat
    2. Don't be a donkey
    3. Always take the opportunity to make a dumb joke

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2015

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexacia View Post
    But barring martial Hexblade (a decidedly non-spellcaster-oriented build and an actually-good build at that, unlike caster-oriented Warlock), a Sorlock does all of this and does it better. That's the problem. The thread you're in is literally titled "Is Warlock a dip only class in general" and all but one of your criteria is either satisfied or satisficed by a Warlock dip attached to a real primary caster. And that sole exception as I said both in this post and earlier in this thread is indeed the only proper use case for a monoclass Warlock that isn't strictly superseded by a Warlock dip.

    Warlock doesn't have the resources to exercise this much-vaunted versatility, and everyone singing its praises in this fashion always conveniently fails to acknowledge that.
    * be a primary healer via celestial patron
    * be a ritual caster via Tome
    * be a diplomat, spy, impersonator, or thief
    * serve as secondary or primary controller (eldritch blast invocations and utility spells)
    * be the magic detector, or other weird things a warlock does best

    I'm pretty sure all of these are better done by the single-classed warlock too. You need to actually provide proof for your theory, not just repeat your hypothesis.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Mjolnirbear's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2015

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexacia View Post
    But barring martial Hexblade (a decidedly non-spellcaster-oriented build and an actually-good build at that, unlike caster-oriented Warlock), a Sorlock does all of this and does it better. That's the problem. The thread you're in is literally titled "Is Warlock a dip only class in general" and all but one of your criteria is either satisfied or satisficed by a Warlock dip attached to a real primary caster. And that sole exception as I said both in this post and earlier in this thread is indeed the only proper use case for a monoclass Warlock that isn't strictly superseded by a Warlock dip.

    Warlock doesn't have the resources to exercise this much-vaunted versatility, and everyone singing its praises in this fashion always conveniently fails to acknowledge that.
    You may not have noticed, but a dip only gives you two or three invocations. You can choose one of my examples and do well with a dip, or you can choose two and do it adequately, or you can stay in the class, do multiple roles brilliantly, and adjust to further roles as needed throughout your adventuring career.

    Sure, your sorcerer can dip lock and pick up agonizing and repelling. It makes him better at cantrips for sure, gives him more resources on a short rest, at the cost of an ASI and a delay in spell level advancement. But if the sorcerer in my theoretical party did that, the warlock can choose hexblade (assuming character creation post-level 2). Or if the character subclass is locked in, he can switch: be a mighty morphing power scout, or get one of the better Oh-**** buttons (Tomb of Leviticus). Or he could have a permanent damage Aura, make his curses more serious and more flexible, cast spells at will, become Sir intrigues-a-lot with disguise self, or other things. And the warlock can adjust if the campaign changes; he can switch invocations every level.

    Warlock is the only class with this versatility, and you lose it when you dip. As with all class dips, you can snag some great stuff. You say the warlock doesn't have the resources for this, and you're wrong; only the warlock has resources for this. The warlock dip, however, is stuck with his dip, useful though it may be.

    A dip can help with your chosen role. Your sorlock wants to be a better archer, so dips. Or he wants free disguise self, so dips. A fighter dip can make a better caster, because action surge. A barbarian dip can make a better moon druid, cause rage. A rogue dip can make a better valour bard swashbuckler (theme, not subclass). A wizard dip adds ritual casting and some of the best spells available.

    A dip can help a character concept, and the warlocks bag of fun tricks can help a lot of varied concepts. It's great for dipping and literally no one would argue otherwise. But saying it's only good for dipping is doing the class a severe disservice.
    Avatar by the awesome Linklele!

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnirbear View Post
    The party is Sorcerer, Paladin, Fighter, Warlock. As warlock, you can:
    * be a primary healer via celestial patron
    * be a melee damage via hexblade
    * be a ritual caster via Tome
    * be a diplomat, spy, impersonator, or thief
    * serve as secondary or primary controller (eldritch blast invocations and utility spells)
    * be the magic detector, or other weird things a warlock does best
    * be the best archer ever

    And most of those roles aren't exclusive.
    Just to emphasize your point further...

    I see your most, and raise you all!

    Celestial Generalist

    VHuman Celestial Tomelock 12
    20 Cha / 16 Dex / 16 Con
    Moderately Armored (+1 Dex) / +4 Cha (ASIs) / War Caster

    Cantrips: Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade, Eldritch Blast, Mage Hand, Shillelagh, Shape Water, Guidance, Light, Sacred Flame (Yes, they know 9 Cantrips; 4 base, 2 Celestial, 3 Tome).

    Spells: Cure Wounds, Greater Restoration, Revivify, Hellish Rebuke, Synaptic Static, Thunder Step, Hypnotic Pattern, Counterspell, Armor of Agathys, Hex, Misty Step, Mass Suggestion

    Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast, Book of Ancient Secrets, Eldritch Sight, Mask of Many Faces, Maddening Hex



    Let's go down the checklist!

    HEALER? You've got Healing Light (which is like 13 Healing Words a day, or a lesser number of bonus action burst heals), the various status-removal spells, and Revivify. That's pretty much all the important bases. You also can take advantage of your short-rest recharge healing to make the party's breaks more efficient.

    DIPLOMAT/SPY/IMPERSONATOR? You have 20 Charisma, the proper proficiencies, Guidance, and Disguise Self at-will (which doesn't even use your Concentration, so you're totally using it in dungeon situations too to surprise or confuse people). Oh, and Mass Suggestion.

    THIEF? You can teleport, impersonate easily, have 16 Dex + proficiency in the proper skills, and are the magic detector (I find this comes up a lot when doing second story work). There are also some fun thievery tricks you can do with Shape Water and Mage Hand.

    MAGIC DETECTOR? Yep, you've got Eldritch Sight.

    RITUAL CASTER? Yep, you've got access to every class's rituals from Book of Ancient Secrets.

    ARCHER? You've got a 24-hour Hex and an Eldritch Blast that does 3d10+3d6+15, plus a 30 foot knockback (with no size limit, unlike most knockbacks), and Maddening Hex for a guaranteed-hit 5 damage AoE on top of that. You can just dish out that 47 damage all day. And have fun playing pinball (knock enemy into another enemy, then use the Maddening Hex AoE).

    MELEE? You have the AC of a dex fighter, a bonus action heal better than Second Wind, Armor of Agathys, Shillelagh, and Green-Flame Blade that gets buffed by Radiant Soul and your 24-hour Hex. Oh, and War Caster, so if they try to move past you, they get a Booming Blade OA for 6d8+5 (or perhaps something spending an actual spell slot). You also get 16 temp hp every short rest from Celestial Resilience (and your teammates get some too). And if somehow they get through all of that and you need to get out of dodge, you can use Thunder Step to damage them, get out, and rescue a teammate while you're at it!

    Someone attacking you in melee could take 25 damage per melee hit from AoA, then take 6d10+5 (38) from Hellish Rebuke, then get whacked by Green-Flame Blade for 3d8+1d6+10 (27) and another 3d8+5 (18.5) to the person standing next to them. Oh, and you have a familiar, so you can make that attack with Advantage.

    CONTROLLER? You've got Synaptic Static, Hypnotic Pattern, Mass Suggestion, and 30 foot knockback on your Eldritch Blast. Oh, and moving past you in melee provokes nasty War Caster OAs.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2018

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    The healing dice recharge on a long rest but other than that you got everything right. This is the perfect example of what mkaes warlocks good.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2018

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    If the dm has to tailor the game pacing so your class does not suck, your class sucks.

    The guidelines for an adventuring day is 2 shorts and a long, but many dms donít bother..
    Ill be honest i have heard this arguement and its garbage. I don't see anyone polling Dm's about thier style of pacing. Most i have asked keep 2-3 short rests per long.( due to sample size i can't make assumptions about the broader community)
    Truth is Pacing Varies to suite the Plot & Characters in it.

    I have a straight Warlock in My campaign as the only Arcane caster and i hear no complaints from him.

    I am of the Mind that Those who complain about the Warlocks Power Level Want to Have the Best of Both Worlds
    Upfront Powerful Early levels that Scales to obscene levels of Power with no Draw backs.

    The Class plays Thematically appropriate.

    Trade your soul for Power only to ultimately find out you didnt get quite the Deal you wanted.
    Last edited by Callak_Remier; 2018-12-03 at 11:46 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Purgatory
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Callak_Remier View Post
    Ill be honest i have heard this arguement and its garbage. I don't see anyone polling Dm's about thier style of pacing. Most i have asked keep 2-3 short rests per long.( due to sample size i can't make assumptions about the broader community)
    Truth is Pacing Varies to suite the Plot & Characters in it.

    I have a straight Warlock in My campaign as the only Arcane caster and i hear no complaints from him.

    I am of the Mind that Those who complain about the Warlocks Power Level Want to Have the Best of Both Worlds
    Upfront Powerful Early levels that Scales to obscene levels of Power with no Draw backs.

    The Class plays Thematically appropriate.

    Trade your soul for Power only to ultimately find out you didnt get quite the Deal you wanted.
    If you play or run a game that regularly has two short rests per long rest you are very lucky.

    Also if the theme of the class is appropriate as you say that you made a deal for power but did not get it, that kind of proves my point.

    If a game follows the SSL resting cycle, then yes Warlocks are fine, maybe on the weaker side of combats last a while but they are good.

    Nobody else looses so drastic an amount of their class power from missing a short rest as much as warlocks do.

    As far as my sample size goes, which is rather large, either the dm purpously uses optional rules to help out the warlock, like short rests being 10 mins and can be done while walking, or as much more common, it is just the 15MAD because they donít want to write down that many encounters to deal with.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2018

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    Nobody else looses so drastic an amount of their class power from missing a short rest as much as warlocks do.
    They really don't though. Eldritch Blast with Agonizing blast is comparative to a fighter with a heavy crossbow and crossbow expert. They can choose to get that for free at all times.

    Also where are you getting your info on how many rests DMs give. As others have said there is no conclusive polls and the general consensus almost everybody on this thread has stated that DMs tend to run rests depending on the characters.

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2018

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Spastic View Post
    They really don't though. Eldritch Blast with Agonizing blast is comparative to a fighter with a heavy crossbow and crossbow expert. They can choose to get that for free at all times.
    And that is exactly the reason that dipping Warlock is so popular. You get most of their good stuff in 2-3 levels. Everything after that is weaker than if you would just multiclass something else, like sorcerer.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2018

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdolch View Post
    And that is exactly the reason that dipping Warlock is so popular. You get most of their good stuff in 2-3 levels. Everything after that is weaker than if you would just multiclass something else, like sorcerer.
    Just because it is weaker doesn't make it bad. Sure, you won't have the same power as the multiclass into sorcerer. Nobody is trying to argue that. The point that we are trying to get across is that they are not bad just because you can make something stronger by multiclassing. They have many things that still make them viable and fun at higher levels. Warlocks are the weird quirky character with a lot of fun stuff that you can completely miss out on if you just dismiss them past level 3.

    Edit: We get why it's popular, that's not the point of the thread. The point is to discuss the merits of staying a single class Warlock or only dipping. Which some of us are actually doing and backing up with evidence.
    Last edited by Mr.Spastic; 2018-12-04 at 12:37 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Spastic View Post
    The healing dice recharge on a long rest but other than that you got everything right. This is the perfect example of what mkaes warlocks good.
    Thanks, but... I already said that the healing dice recharge were per day, though?

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Oct 2018

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    Thanks, but... I already said that the healing dice recharge were per day, though?
    I read the part about taking advantage of short rest recharge healing and misinterpreted. You were refering to the spells. My bad. Great build though.
    Last edited by Mr.Spastic; 2018-12-04 at 12:41 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Spastic View Post
    I read the part about taking advantage of short rest recharge healing and misinterpreted. You were refering to the spells. My bad. Great build though.
    Ah, yeah. I was referring to the fact that they basically get 15d8+15 healing per hour of downtime, just from Cure Wounds. It's one of the nifty benefits of having a heal spell, even one like Cure Wounds, on a short rest recharge.

    Anyways, glad you like the build!

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2018

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Spastic View Post
    Just because it is weaker doesn't make it bad. Sure, you won't have the same power as the multiclass into sorcerer. Nobody is trying to argue that. The point that we are trying to get across is that they are not bad just because you can make something stronger by multiclassing. They have many things that still make them viable and fun at higher levels. Warlocks are the weird quirky character with a lot of fun stuff that you can completely miss out on if you just dismiss them past level 3.

    Edit: We get why it's popular, that's not the point of the thread. The point is to discuss the merits of staying a single class Warlock or only dipping. Which some of us are actually doing and backing up with evidence.
    To be honest I have no Idea who "We" and "Us" is. The OP did ask a question that was answered. Frankly i find a quite a bit strange that you, after just creating your "Power Gamer ruining Discussion" Thread, do the exact same thing here that you denounce there. Why the antagonism? Nobody is trying to steal your Lunch.

    Yes, of course you can play Warlock to 20. Nobody said you cannot. But the original question was:
    Quote Originally Posted by Genoin View Post
    What am I missing? Is there ever really a reason (mechanically) to play a full single class warlock rather than dipping 2-3 levels?
    And the answer to that Question is: No, there is almost never a mechanical reason to play a single class warlock. But the Warlock is not weak by any means and you can play it single class to great effect. The reason most people don't, is because it is mechanically weaker than certain multiclasses, while offering arguably no real benefit in return. BTW: Everything you can roleplay with a Warlock20 you can also roleplay with a Warlock3/Sorcerer17.

    Do you have to multiclass? No, of course not. If you want to play a pure Warlock then do that. It still has nothing to do with the Question the OP asked. But good job getting triggered and creating some mysterious US vs Them Conflict out of thin air.
    Last edited by jdolch; 2018-12-04 at 02:30 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    I feel that Hex and Eldritch Blast should be class features rather than spells so some investment is necessary.

    I would also make the higher level invocations more appealing. Maybe invocations that grant you new spells allow you to cast said spells once per long rest without a spell slot (similar to a racial).

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    There's actually some very good mechanical reasons not to go Warlock 3 / Sorcerer 17, especially if coffeelocking is disallowed (which, with the new sage advice on coffeelocks, you can expect to be an even more common ruling than it already is).

    If you go War 3 and then go into Sorcerer, you don't get an ASI until level 7. You don't get a third level spell slot until level 8. You miss out on various invocation combos and Warlock strategies that the Sorlock actually can't do. And because Rod of the Pact Keeper is a thing, and DC20+ spell saves are great with things like Banishment.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2018-12-04 at 07:13 AM. Reason: typo

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2018

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    There's actually some very good mechanical reasons not to go Warlock 3 / Sorcerer 17, especially if coffeelocking is disallowed (which, with the new sage advice on coffeelocks, you can expect to be an even more common a ruling than it already is).

    If you go War 3 and then go into Sorcerer, you don't get an ASI until level 7. You don't get a third level spell slot until level 8. You miss out on various invocation combos and Warlock strategies that the Sorlock actually can't do. And because Rod of the Pact Keeper is a thing, and DC20+ spell saves are great with things like Banishment.
    Either we make a complete list of pros and cons or we don't, but this is neither here nor there.

  21. - Top - End - #51
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2015

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdolch View Post
    And the answer to that Question is: No, there is almost never a mechanical reason to play a single class warlock. But the Warlock is not weak by any means and you can play it single class to great effect. The reason most people don't, is because it is mechanically weaker than certain multiclasses, while offering arguably no real benefit in return. BTW: Everything you can roleplay with a Warlock20 you can also roleplay with a Warlock3/Sorcerer17.
    But that's wrong. The answer is yes, unless there is literally never, not almost never. We can quibble on the almost never too.
    Quote Originally Posted by jdolch View Post
    Either we make a complete list of pros and cons or we don't, but this is neither here nor there.
    If there are any unique pros on the warlock side, and there are, then the argument is already settled. There are reasons to take single-classed warlock. Like better hit dice, higher powered patron features, more ASI, earlier access to higher leveled spells, more invocations, greater sustainable capability, and access to warlock spells not on the sorcerer list.

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mephnick's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    If you play or run a game that regularly has two short rests per long rest you are very lucky.
    Is it "lucky" to have a DM that has read and understands the system, or a base requirement?

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2018

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalabim View Post
    But that's wrong. The answer is yes, unless there is literally never, not almost never. We can quibble on the almost never too.

    If there are any unique pros on the warlock side, and there are, then the argument is already settled. There are reasons to take single-classed warlock. Like better hit dice, higher powered patron features, more ASI, earlier access to higher leveled spells, more invocations, greater sustainable capability, and access to warlock spells not on the sorcerer list.
    God, you people are exhausting.

    Fact one: Almost nobody plays pure Warlocks.

    Fact two: There is a good (mechanical) reason for that.

    If you don't want to accept that, fine. That's really your problem, not mine. Have a nice day.
    Last edited by jdolch; 2018-12-04 at 08:22 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Purgatory
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    Is it "lucky" to have a DM that has read and understands the system, or a base requirement?
    Considering how few use 2 short rests a day, yes.

  25. - Top - End - #55
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Aug 2016

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdolch View Post
    Fact one: Almost nobody plays pure Warlocks.
    Nice anecdotal you got there.
    Last edited by Daphne; 2018-12-04 at 08:35 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #56
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdolch View Post
    Fact one: Almost nobody plays pure Warlocks.
    Please provide datas as evidence to back this claim.

    Also please explain why "almost no one does X" has any incidence on the quality of doing X.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdolch View Post
    Fact two: There is a good (mechanical) reason for that.
    Please provide datas demonstrating this reason.
    Last edited by Unoriginal; 2018-12-04 at 08:52 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #57
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    For role playing purposes, you have come to an agreement with something. Why wouldnt you ride the lightning?
    Last edited by MThurston; 2018-12-04 at 09:08 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

    Join Date
    Dec 2015

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?


  29. - Top - End - #59
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Purgatory
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by MThurston View Post
    For role playing purposes, you have come to an agreement with something. Why wouldnt you rise the lightning?
    Huh?

    Nowhere does it say that YOU have to have made a deal.

    You could be a descendent of some otherworldly power.
    Your parents could have made a deal for family power and bartered their first born for it.
    You could have been blessed with it as a chosen one.

    Your source of power does not have to be all negative or just a plot hook for your DM to screw you over later if they feel like it.

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Re: Is Warlock a dip only class in general?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    Huh?

    Nowhere does it say that YOU have to have made a deal.

    You could be a descendent of some otherworldly power.
    Your parents could have made a deal for family power and bartered their first born for it.
    You could have been blessed with it as a chosen one.

    Your source of power does not have to be all negative or just a plot hook for your DM to screw you over later if they feel like it.
    You have made a deal.

    It's how Warlock opens.

    Otherworldly Patron
    At 1st level, you have struck a bargain with an otherworldly being of your choice, such as The Fiend. Your choice grants you features at 1st level and again at 6th, 10th, and 14th level.

    Pretty much says ride the lightning.
    Last edited by MThurston; 2018-12-04 at 09:11 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •