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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Mead-Brewing Questions

    I've been listening to far too much Alestorm, so I've found myself looking at a big ol' wad of honey, spice, and yeast with new intention. I've still got a few questions about brewing mead, however.

    I've got, like, a buncha stuff I wanna add, like sticks of cinnamon and the like. Also, a few drops of an, ah, capsaicin-rich sauce I posses, for heat. Should I add this stuff before or after fermentation? I know alcohol is great at leaching flavor compounds like cinnamaldehyde from spices, feels like I should add em' right off the bat, but I'm not sure if it'll interfere.

    I've heard mead takes about 2-4 weeks to brew (for reference: I've got a gallon jug, a packet of 71B yeast, and three pounds of honey). How do I get the dead yeast out after?
    Last edited by Phhase; 2018-12-02 at 11:22 PM.
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Brew time should vary according to yeast, ideal conditions and how "sugary" your base is.

    It's traditional to brew mead at home here (weak, almost non alcoholic) and that takes only a few days, week tops. But that may not be the benchmark you are looking for.

    I'm gonna say you'd put flavouring in the initial mix. Watching Moonshiners they do add flavour ingredients either in the fermentation process (also as a source of sugars) and/or as part of distilling but that's stronger alcohol that probably catches flavour more easily.

    You get the mead out of the yeast actually. It should settle at the bottom eventually. Then you skim the top off and bottle that. IIRC how my mom used to do it.
    Around here probably bottle it bit before it's done so you get a big of a fizz to the bottle as fermentation keeps going.

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phhase View Post
    I've got, like, a buncha stuff I wanna add, like sticks of cinnamon and the like. Also, a few drops of an, ah, capsaicin-rich sauce I posses, for heat. Should I add this stuff before or after fermentation? I know alcohol is great at leaching flavor compounds like cinnamaldehyde from spices, feels like I should add em' right off the bat, but I'm not sure if it'll interfere.
    I'd say that whenever you try any sort of new process or recipe that you have never done before, it pays to stick to the recipe. Otherwise, if things go south, you have essentially no way of figuring out what went wrong and are unlikely to learn how to do it. I'd never experiment on the first batch of anything.
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Or, if you have the means, do proper* science : make a batch with the original recipe, make a batch where you add the enhancer early on, one where you add it in the middle, one at the end...

    Sadly, I never made any, and I'm honestly surprised someone was able to help you for such special subjects I'd recommend looking elsewhere, just to get more information?

    *in a very broad application of the term
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Some flavors have anti-microbial properties, so if I'm not following a recipe, I'd add liquid flavors right before bottling. For solid flavors, I'd add them at secondary fermentation. Make sure to sterilize any thing you add. I usually use the microwave to boil sanitize my flavorings. To speed up the process, add a few raisins or some commercial yeast nutrient at the start to boost the population.

    Speaking of secondary fermentation, you should have a tube for siphoning and a second bottle, siphon everything above the yeast sludge from the primary fermentation vessel to the secondary, about halfway through the time you are willing to wait. Try to move the original bottle as little as possible to let the most yeast settle out before siphoning. Do a similar thing and discard the sludge again when it comes time to bottle. That will minimize the yeast flavor from the final mead.

    I just moved a batch of bochet (caramelized) mead to secondary fermentation on Saturday, it was as dark as coffee, and the sample tasted sort of like a stout. I can't wait for it to finish!
    "The error is to be human"

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Sadly, I never made any, and I'm honestly surprised someone was able to help you for such special subjects I'd recommend looking elsewhere, just to get more information?
    I'm continually surprised and amazed by both the depth and variety of specialist knowledge you can find among the Playgrounders; at this point I almost actually expect somebody around here can offer a useful comment on whatever esoteric thing you might care to ask about. The tricky part is catching their attention.

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Spojaz View Post
    Make sure to sterilize any thing you add. I usually use the microwave to boil sanitize my flavorings.
    Ah. That would probably have been smart. I cleaned the vessels, but didn't think of that. Seems fine for now, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spojaz View Post
    To speed up the process, add a few raisins or some commercial yeast nutrient at the start to boost the population.
    Raisins? I'm curious as to how this affects the process. I can throw a few in, it's only been a little while.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spojaz View Post
    Speaking of secondary fermentation, you should have a tube for siphoning and a second bottle, siphon everything above the yeast sludge from the primary fermentation vessel to the secondary, about halfway through the time you are willing to wait. Try to move the original bottle as little as possible to let the most yeast settle out before siphoning. Do a similar thing and discard the sludge again when it comes time to bottle. That will minimize the yeast flavor from the final mead.
    I see. I don't have a second bottle, but I can find a vat or something to hold the stuff while I clean out the first. The recipe I followed roughly used a more tolerant yeast, and called for about a 6 week fermentation. I'm guessing that with a gallon of liquid, 2.5 lbs honey, and 3/4 a packet of yeast that reaches a 15-17% range, it should take...4? Ish?

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    I'm continually surprised and amazed by both the depth and variety of specialist knowledge you can find among the Playgrounders; at this point I almost actually expect somebody around here can offer a useful comment on whatever esoteric thing you might care to ask about. The tricky part is catching their attention.
    Indeed! This place is a real rogue's gallery. Come January, I'll probably be back with a hangover and many questions about cryogenics!
    Last edited by Phhase; 2018-12-03 at 03:30 PM.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phhase View Post
    Raisins? I'm curious as to how this affects the process..
    The more yeast you have, the faster the fermentation. In an environment of almost entirely sugars in water, the yeast population is limited by phosphorus, nitrogen and trace elements. Without adding anything to the must, the mass of living yeast will stay pretty close to what was in the 3/4 packet you originally included. This means a slower fermentation, which can lead to a better mead, or it can just make it take forever. It depends on the yeast, the temperature, the honey and the container.

    The white powder that you wash off grapes is actually yeast, living in symbiosis with the fruit, out-competing bacteria, and allowing grapes to have a very thin skin. The grapes provide the necessary nutrients to the yeast, and those elements are still present on raisins. It's a natural, inexpensive source of what those tiny fungi crave. If you do put a few raisins in, make sure to sterilize them, wild yeast often produces bad flavors.
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phhase View Post
    Raisins? I'm curious as to how this affects the process. I can throw a few in, it's only been a little while.
    It shouldn't hinder it. We traditionally put raisins (regular dried ones) in the bottle. Most people consider the mead done when the raisins float to the top.

    I think it is mostly because it absorbs moisture over a few days time.

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    My ex and I used to brew mead, but it's been 10 years. We'd have 2-3 5 gallon bottles going in our closets, plus a 3 gallon of specialty. I'll try to check in and remember stuff.
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Hey, speaking here as somebody who has made about fifty gallons of different kinds of mead in the past year, and spent a lot of time researching the latest best practices. The rabbit hole is deep. The mead subreddit is helpful and has a great wiki.

    Add the cinnamon after fermentation is complete. It is naturally antimicrobial so you can just plonk it in safely.

    For a spicy mead, actual peppers would be a much safer and tastier addition than a hot sauce, with the vinegar and salt it is likely to contain. Soaked in vodka to make a tincture and, again, added after fermentation is complete.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phhase View Post
    Raisins? I'm curious as to how this affects the process. I can throw a few in, it's only been a little while.
    Raisins contribute some flavour and body, qualities that mead can lack, but their usefulness as a yeast nutrient is extremely small. The amount needed to get nitrogen levels of the must to the ideal would give you an overwhelmingly raisiny-tasting mead.

    A healthy fermentation is vital to making a mead that is drinkable on a time frame of months instead of years. I highly recommend getting actual yeast nutrients -- they are not at all expensive; they will add less than a dollar to the cost of your gallon of mead. Fermaid products are the best if you can find them.

    I see. I don't have a second bottle, but I can find a vat or something to hold the stuff while I clean out the first. The recipe I followed roughly used a more tolerant yeast, and called for about a 6 week fermentation. I'm guessing that with a gallon of liquid, 2.5 lbs honey, and 3/4 a packet of yeast that reaches a 15-17% range, it should take...4? Ish?
    2.5 pounds of honey in a gallon will get you about 12% alcohol. The speed of fermentation will depend on several factors, but 2-4 weeks is likely. Once the fermentation is complete, you can actually leave it for a few months in the same vessel to clear up a bit and bottle it straight from there. Leaving it on the lees is not really a problem on that time scale unless there were fruit in it. A gallon jug is conveniently small enough to put in the fridge for that process -- the cold will help it clear much more quickly.

    Use the whole packet, there is no reason not to and having a 1/4 packet of yeast in your fridge is not going to benefit you or the yeast.

    Quote Originally Posted by snowblizz View Post
    You get the mead out of the yeast actually. It should settle at the bottom eventually. Then you skim the top off and bottle that. IIRC how my mom used to do it.
    Around here probably bottle it bit before it's done so you get a big of a fizz to the bottle as fermentation keeps going.
    It is much safer to let the fermentation complete and add a very precisely calculated amount of honey or sugar when bottling. Bottling anything before fermentation is complete is a huge risk of having exploding bottles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spojaz View Post
    The more yeast you have, the faster the fermentation. In an environment of almost entirely sugars in water, the yeast population is limited by phosphorus, nitrogen and trace elements. Without adding anything to the must, the mass of living yeast will stay pretty close to what was in the 3/4 packet you originally included. This means a slower fermentation, which can lead to a better mead, or it can just make it take forever. It depends on the yeast, the temperature, the honey and the container.

    The white powder that you wash off grapes is actually yeast, living in symbiosis with the fruit, out-competing bacteria, and allowing grapes to have a very thin skin. The grapes provide the necessary nutrients to the yeast, and those elements are still present on raisins. It's a natural, inexpensive source of what those tiny fungi crave. If you do put a few raisins in, make sure to sterilize them, wild yeast often produces bad flavors.
    Respectfully, what you say about yeast is not quite accurate. The amount of yeast left over after a fermentation is always many times the amount that was pitched. The yeast biomass will attempt to reproduce until a certain critical saturation of cells to food is reached; starting from a smaller cell count, especially in the absence of best yeast practices such as oxygen and nutrition, means they will struggle to get there. Their struggle will produce undesirable esters, fusel alcohols, and hydrogen sulfide, and as you say the fermentation will be sluggish, and possibly incomplete.

    Also, this probably varies quite a bit from country to country, but around here raisins and other dried fruit are quite heavily sulfited, leaving them safely sterile. I addressed their use as a yeast nutrient above -- in short, they're better than nothing, but not by much. Even commercial wine makers, working with something made entirely of fresh grapes, use yeast nutrients; how could a few dried ones provide any significant benefit? I don't mean to pick on you, but the raisin thing is one of those pieces of homebrewer received wisdom that we work hard to correct.

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    God, its been....really over 10 years since we made Mead.... (back in College, 3 Physics Students and their try on "Applied Bio.Chemistry", we called it ^^)

    I need to do that again, thank you very much for reminding me!

    Now to get all the stuff needed....^^
    Last edited by GrayDeath; 2018-12-04 at 02:58 PM.
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayDeath View Post
    God, its been....really over 10 years since we made Mead.... (back in College, 3 Physics Students and their try on "Applied Bio.Chemistry", we called it ^^)

    I need to do that again, thank you very much for reminding me!

    Now to get all the stuff needed....^^
    Related to the boldened, a friend of mine in college maintained that he could run a meth lab out of the Chemistry department, so long as he labelled it "on-going experiment". This is pre-Breaking Bad, though.
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Well, around ehre, Meth was far less known (though I admit not having had to do much with Chemistry students....they might have been able to do the same^^), so we more or less kept to mostly legal applications of inter-Faculty Cooperation.

    No, really! ^^
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    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    I'm not really familiar with brewing mead but did brew a batch of a beer once a few years ago and think I have something I can add to the conversation.

    As many people have mentioned earlier, sterilizing your ingredients is very important. Otherwise, the contaminants will interfere and your product may not taste very good.

    My personal story:
    After fermentation it was time to move my beer from the keg to bottles, adding some sugar during the process so that it carbonates. I had a specialized measuring spoon to ensure the right amount of sugar was added to each bottle...I'm guessing I used it wrong somehow and added too much sugar. I had a girl (now my wife) come over during the weekend and we were watching a movie. Next thing you know, we hear an explosion come from my kitchen. I immediately knew what the likely source of the explosion was...my case of bottled beer. One beer must have exploded and caused a chain reaction...only 3 of the batch of 24 survived. To avoid another explosion the remaining beers were opened that night. Beer was veeeeeery fizzy. Dont add too much sugar during the bottling process. We still refer to this night as Beermageddon.
    Last edited by The Big Bear; 2018-12-04 at 04:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Preface: this is all very good stuff, but I've already had it stewing for 1.5 weeks with all the aforementioned ingredients.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kneenibble View Post

    Add the cinnamon after fermentation is complete. It is naturally antimicrobial so you can just plonk it in safely.
    Mmh. It doesn't seem to be interfering, but I'll take that advice next time. Leaving it in with the yeast doesn't run the risk of creating methanol, I hope?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kneenibble View Post
    For a spicy mead, actual peppers would be a much safer and tastier addition than a hot sauce, with the vinegar and salt it is likely to contain. Soaked in vodka to make a tincture and, again, added after fermentation is complete.
    That sounds wise. I have only added enough to coat the tip of a knife, though (It's quite thick and VERY strong. Famous Dave's Insanity). The bulk of the spice comes from powdered red pepper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kneenibble View Post
    A healthy fermentation is vital to making a mead that is drinkable on a time frame of months instead of years. I highly recommend getting actual yeast nutrients -- they are not at all expensive; they will add less than a dollar to the cost of your gallon of mead. Fermaid products are the best if you can find them.
    Noted. In what quantity, relative to yeast?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kneenibble View Post
    2.5 pounds of honey in a gallon will get you about 12% alcohol. The speed of fermentation will depend on several factors, but 2-4 weeks is likely. Once the fermentation is complete, you can actually leave it for a few months in the same vessel to clear up a bit and bottle it straight from there. Leaving it on the lees is not really a problem on that time scale unless there were fruit in it. A gallon jug is conveniently small enough to put in the fridge for that process -- the cold will help it clear much more quickly.
    A commentor made a remark about cycling the mead halfway through fermentation (Secondary fermentation). Is that wise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kneenibble View Post
    Use the whole packet, there is no reason not to and having a 1/4 packet of yeast in your fridge is not going to benefit you or the yeast.


    It is much safer to let the fermentation complete and add a very precisely calculated amount of honey or sugar when bottling. Bottling anything before fermentation is complete is a huge risk of having exploding bottles.
    Fine to just dump in the rest, then?
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Oh, mead. Terrible stuff. An acquaintance of me is a big fan, tho, so I let him talk me into a brewing session.

    Ok, some basic points:
    - Water is actually the main ingredient. Make sure to use the best tasting and cleanest water you can find. Apple juice or cherry juice are also a great basis, if you feel a little bit viking (We call that Viking blood and Odin blood).
    - The choice of yeast is extremely important. Each strain has a certain alcohol tolerance, that means the level of %ABV it can survive in an still produce more alcohol, as well as a set temperature point when it starts producing ester phenols instead of alcohol. Ester phenols are what we taste as different flavors. The "banana flavor" associated with a bavarian wheat beer comes from the yeast used, the signature cherry flavor of californian Zinfandel is also the product of the yeast used, not the grapes.
    - Know your math: The general conversion-ratio of sugar to alcohol is 2:1. You want a mead with 10% ABV, you need to dissolve enough honey in a liquid to saturate it with 20% sugar and need a yeast that can take that ABV-level.
    - Secondary fermentation is a thing. Regular yeast has a problem with metabolizing honey or caramelized sugars. If you want to go all-out on this, both, Lactobacillus as well as Brettamonyces are good for a secondary fermentation.
    - Never, ever, under no conditions, add anything before primary fermentation is done. Stuff like cinnamon, ginger, orange peel and such are cool, but have a negative impact on the whole "brewing phase" and should be added after everything critical is done.
    - It can´t be stressed enough that you have to work "clean". Everything you use has to be sterilized, because we want to control a very organic process in a controlled fashion.

    That said, I would definitely advice any home-brewer to aim for the 15% ABV barrier, as the final product will be anti-septic as well as preserving.

    - Bring your base liquid to the boiling point, then add and dissolve the honey.
    - Seal you wash/wort to prevent outside contamination and cool down below room temperature as quick as you can - 17°C. (Hint: Your wash/wort is extremely attractive to the yeast strains that are a natural part of our surroundings. You don't really want that.)
    - Use a fermentation balloon and "pitch" just enough red wine yeast to match the estimated sugar level (You did your math there, right?). If you have the ratio right, primary fermentation should take something like 5 days, depending on whether you can control the temperature. (Fermentation is an exothermal process. As mentioned above, you actually need to know when your yeast is producing alcohol or esters. The steadier you can keep the temperature to the "working environment" of the yeast, the quicker the whole process - 22°C)

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Oh, mead. Terrible stuff.
    Meh. I tried a bunch of types at a brewery once, and wasn't particularly impressed. Hoiwever, upon listening to too much pirate music, as well as discovering that making it sweeter and adding all sorts of spice-stuff is a thing you can do, I decided I can make something better myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    - Water is actually the main ingredient. Make sure to use the best tasting and cleanest water you can find. Apple juice or cherry juice are also a great basis, if you feel a little bit viking (We call that Viking blood and Odin blood).
    As long as my water doesn't somehow go soft, it should be fine. How should the sugars of a fruit juice be accounted for for the fermentation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    - The choice of yeast is extremely important. Each strain has a certain alcohol tolerance, that means the level of %ABV it can survive in an still produce more alcohol, as well as a set temperature point when it starts producing ester phenols instead of alcohol. Ester phenols are what we taste as different flavors.
    - Know your math: The general conversion-ratio of sugar to alcohol is 2:1. You want a mead with 10% ABV, you need to dissolve enough honey in a liquid to saturate it with 20% sugar and need a yeast that can take that ABV-level.
    Current specs: 2.5lb honey, total 1gal liquid, 71B wine yeast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    - Secondary fermentation is a thing. Regular yeast has a problem with metabolizing honey or caramelized sugars. If you want to go all-out on this, both, Lactobacillus as well as Brettamonyces are good for a secondary fermentation.
    Those are what? Other yeast types? Do they come in subtypes? How much should be used proportionally? Also, how do you recommend separating the yeast/secondary fermenter from the liquid?
    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    - Never, ever, under no conditions, add anything before primary fermentation is done. Stuff like cinnamon, ginger, orange peel and such are cool, but have a negative impact on the whole "brewing phase" and should be added after everything critical is done.
    Oh well. As long as I don't go blind and die it can't be too bad. How do you recommend sterilizing? I feel like boiling would leach out flavor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    (You did your math there, right?).
    No, not really. You're a little late for that. Surely for the next batch, though, still helpful.
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phhase View Post
    Mmh. It doesn't seem to be interfering, but I'll take that advice next time. Leaving it in with the yeast doesn't run the risk of creating methanol, I hope?
    Fermentation creates a small amount of methanol no matter what you do, although more when fruit is involved. Every fermented beverage you have consumed contains it. The danger of methanol is another big misconception. The blindness you hear about from drinking homemade swill during Prohibition was because the liquor was deliberately cut with wood alcohol. It is not dangerous unless you consume a lot of methanol in the absence of ethanol, which is seriously hard to accomplish even when distilling.

    Noted. In what quantity, relative to yeast?
    This here is the rabbit hole. I will point you to some reading rather than explain it in too much detail. The most current practice in the mead world is called Tailored Organic Staggered Nutrient Additions. The quantity is relative to the starting gravity (i.e., concentration of sugars) and volume of your mead, rather than the yeast -- although the amount of yeast you use would ideally be relative to that, as well. Here is an online calculator -- https://www.meadmakr.com/tosna-2-0/

    Basically, the calculator helps you determine an ideal starting cell count based on the strength of the mead, and then the amount of nutrients you need for an optimal YAN (yeast assimilable nitrogen) level in the must. The nutrients are divided into four additions to nurture a steady, healthy growth of the yeast colony. TOSNA calls for Fermaid O, which is a nutrient made from autolyzed yeast. You can use Fermaid K or the generic yeast nutrients that contain DAP, but that requires a different calculator.

    It seems complicated at first, but it gets easy with a little practice.


    A commentor made a remark about cycling the mead halfway through fermentation (Secondary fermentation). Is that wise?
    Definitely not. Leave the mead in contact with the yeast biomass at least until fermentation is complete, and then preferably for some time after. The idea of racking partway through fermentation is a technique from making wine, related to pressing the skins and removing what we call the gross lees, that does not translate to mead. It will harm your fermentation to do so.

    Fine to just dump in the rest, then?
    The yeast have probably reached peak biomass already, so there is little value to adding it at this point. I recommend mixing the leftover with a small amount of boiling water and adding it so that the living yeast can cannibalize the dead cells as nutrients.


    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Oh, mead. Terrible stuff. An acquaintance of me is a big fan, tho, so I let him talk me into a brewing session.
    Your information is mostly good, but there are a few things not. (With the exception of calling it terrible! Bad mead is terrible, of which there is a great deal. Good mead is divine)

    - Secondary fermentation is a thing. Regular yeast has a problem with metabolizing honey or caramelized sugars. If you want to go all-out on this, both, Lactobacillus as well as Brettamonyces are good for a secondary fermentation.
    This information is not correct. The sugars in honey are mostly monosaccharides in the form of glucose and fructose, and the few others are quite fermentable to yeast. Yeast might struggle to completely ferment a honey must only if they were not properly treated, in terms of rehydration, aeration, and nutrients, but that bears no relation to why they would not completely ferment caramelized sugars. Lacto and brett are totally unnecessary and also very advanced techniques for someone doing their first batch.

    - Never, ever, under no conditions, add anything before primary fermentation is done. Stuff like cinnamon, ginger, orange peel and such are cool, but have a negative impact on the whole "brewing phase" and should be added after everything critical is done.
    This information is not correct. The reason not to add adjuncts during fermentation is because the fermentation will damage the delicate aromatics, not because the ingredients will hamper fermentation. Consider that a number of beer styles include such adjuncts during fermentation by definition, and ferment perfectly fine. I just bottled a braggot that had almost 2 pounds of ginger included throughout the fermentation.

    - Bring your base liquid to the boiling point, then add and dissolve the honey.
    Current techniques do not recommend boiling of any kind, especially with fruit juices as opposed to water. The heat will damage the aromatics of the honey and/or fruit, and set pectin in the juice. The water can be heated to the edge of comfort to help dissolve the honey only if necessary.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phhase View Post
    As long as my water doesn't somehow go soft, it should be fine. How should the sugars of a fruit juice be accounted for for the fermentation?
    Fruit juice typically has a specific gravity of around 1.050. Your 2.5 lbs of honey to a gallon of must has an estimated specific gravity of about 1.090, for reference. If you want to make more mead, I highly recommend investing in an inexpensive tool called a hydrometer, which will help you in a number of ways -- such as being able to measure the starting gravity to know how much honey to add and exactly how much alcohol there will be, and to know definitely when the fermentation has finished.

    Those are what? Other yeast types? Do they come in subtypes? How much should be used proportionally? Also, how do you recommend separating the yeast/secondary fermenter from the liquid?
    Brettanomyces is a sort of wild yeast, and Lactobacillus is a bacteria for making sours. Both of these organisms are typically used to produce funky weird beers, but don't worry about them at this point in your brewing career.
    Last edited by Kneenibble; 2018-12-12 at 12:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Mead's been made for millennia without sterilization.
    Wash your hands. Wash your gear. That's about all you need. I've read meadmakers who only rinse their carboys out to get the big particles out, with the aim and intent of keeping the live microbes in there.

    Here's a recipe that seemed to work pretty well for producing a smooth, drinkable mead (technically, it's an acerglyn/bochet). I started it 10/7/18.

    1-gallon distilled water
    3 lb. of honey, caramelized
    1 lb. of grade A maple syrup (You can go darker if you want - more darker, more better)
    1 tbsp. of ground nutmeg
    1 tsp. vanilla extract
    4 bags of black tea (The tea is in small, cheap bags. I think it's about a teaspoon or two of leaves per bag. Next time, I'll probably go for a better tea and see if that improves.)
    1 tsp. of yeast nutrient (Very, very important!)
    1 tsp. of Lalvin D47 yeast

    Caramelized the honey to a nice dark brown color (I aimed to blow off the floral flavors of the orange blossom honey and burn it to somewhere around toffee and caramel in taste), then added the maple syrup. I then added the water and waited for it to cool to about room temperature, then added the rest of the materials and pitched the yeast when it hit ~70.

    The next time I do this, I'll probably add the vanilla extract and ground nutmeg after primary fermentation's done. It didn't ferment terribly enthusiastically, although it did get going and stayed going for a good long while. I really don't taste either very much in the brew, although I suppose weak is better than too strong.

    I left the teabags in for about a week. Don't leave them too long, because tea starts getting more bitter than you probably want after steeping for a while.

    Because this is Lalvin D47, it's important that you keep the temperature down in the range where the yeast is happy - 70 is about the warmest you'd want to get it. All yeasts have a temperature range where they produce the best product. Learn it, and don't let your brews get outside of it unless you want to be aging for years to smooth out that rocket fuel.
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
    Mead's been made for millennia without sterilization.
    Wash your hands. Wash your gear. That's about all you need. I've read meadmakers who only rinse their carboys out to get the big particles out, with the aim and intent of keeping the live microbes in there.
    This is true, but also remember that urine was sometimes used to correct a pH imbalance. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should.
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Hmmm...how does menthol (NOT to be confused with methanol) or other mint flavors react to the brewing process? I've always wanted to make something that tastes like the winter wind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    This is true, but also remember that urine was sometimes used to correct a pH imbalance. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should.
    Just because it was done in the past doesn't mean it shouldn't, either.
    ... Not the urine thing. We have better ways to mess with pH.

    If you're going to be aging for several years, then sure - sterilizing is useful. Otherwise, you're wasting time with overkill and risking possibly contaminating with bleach or soap flavor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phhase View Post
    Hmmm...how does menthol (NOT to be confused with methanol) or other mint flavors react to the brewing process? I've always wanted to make something that tastes like the winter wind.
    Menthol's an antiseptic. I'd add it in after fermentation's done.
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phhase View Post
    Hmmm...how does menthol (NOT to be confused with methanol) or other mint flavors react to the brewing process? I've always wanted to make something that tastes like the winter wind.
    Peppermint, at least, has some antimicrobial-and-other-single-and-small-cellular-life properties that would probably harm fermentation by risking prematurely killing the yeast colony, so if you're working with whole mint you probably want to infuse it in after the fermentation stage. I don't know about other varieties - types of mint that have less intense mint flavor may have similarly less potent oils and could be safer to mix in during fermentation, but probably best to do it during aging. If you're working with pre-extracted essential oils or flavor extracts, it'd be easy enough to just blend that into the completed mead during decanting and bottling. I'd be careful with the amount, tho - I've yet to run into a non-cream based mint-flavored alcohol that tasted very good.
    Last edited by tyckspoon; 2018-12-13 at 08:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
    Just because it was done in the past doesn't mean it shouldn't, either.
    ... Not the urine thing. We have better ways to mess with pH.

    If you're going to be aging for several years, then sure - sterilizing is useful. Otherwise, you're wasting time with overkill and risking possibly contaminating with bleach or soap flavor.
    I mean... everybody brewing anything should sanitize their equipment. That's one of the most basic things. StarSan is extremely efficient, easy to use, and cheap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phhase View Post
    Hmmm...how does menthol (NOT to be confused with methanol) or other mint flavors react to the brewing process? I've always wanted to make something that tastes like the winter wind.
    It's not going to hamper the fermentation in any way whatsoever, the only problem is (as with any such adjunct) that the fullness of the aroma and flavour might not survive the vigour of the fermentation itself. The yeast make great volumes of carbon dioxide that bubble out of solution carrying away a lot of volatile aromatics. Best to add it after fermentation for that reason. Either steep a very strong tea, or put the mint directly in.
    Last edited by Kneenibble; 2018-12-13 at 11:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kneenibble View Post
    The yeast make great volumes of carbon dioxide that bubble out of solution carrying away a lot of volatile aromatics.
    Ahhhhhh, I see. Less a chemical issue, and more like it's going through the lifetime of a soda, and becoming flat on the other side. Interesting. Is there a way to preserve more gas without risking explosion? Some kinda valve?
    Last edited by Phhase; 2018-12-14 at 12:20 AM.
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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    @Kneenibble:

    My background is industrial brewing and distilling. That pretty much shapes and informs my approach when it comes to all things alcohol-related. My focus is not on the basics of how things work, but rather on creating a controlled environment, working in a clean way and creating processes that will lead to stable and repeatable results. We're using a 5 vessel 20HL setup for production, so the tips I give are based on replicating this on a level that is doable for a home-brewer.

    Ok, for the particulars:

    - You are correct that honey is roughly 80% straight glucose-fructose. What matters are the target ABV and "Sweetness" of the final product, tho.

    - Solaris actually wrote the right thing there: Denaturalizing the honey by caramelizing will have a huge effect on the whole process. We can discuss this in detail if you want.

    - Your yeast pitch matters, especially when you don't have a fully controlled environment. If you don't use a ZKT with coolers or somehow have the ability to steady the temperature of your fermentation tanks, you should generally aim to pitch at the lowest level possible. That also means that any adjunct with anti-bacterial effects should be avoided, or rather delayed, from the fermentation to the lagering Process as the only net result you have is a higher pitch rate, which is both unnecessary and uncontrollable.

    - Boiling, or mostly sterilizing/pasteurization is more of a matter of knowing the source product and handling bacteria besides the yeast strains chosen for fermentation. The closer you come to using natural-organic products as a base, the more this will become a problem.

    - I don't really consider this to be advanced matters. They are closely related to my first point of target ABV and sweetness.

    @Phhase:

    No, there is no easy way around this. Yeast has three very distinctive phases of producing alcohol, carbon dioxide and phenols, based on the available sugars and the environmental temperature.
    In the professional beer-making business, we accepted the fact that phenols tend to cling to carbon dioxide easily, unless you go for a really extended maturation phase in which the solids truly merge with the carrier liquid.

    To make that a bit understandable: A fresh dry-hopped IPA will mostly work through the nose, while an ages IPA will wrk through the tongue.
    Last edited by Florian; 2018-12-14 at 12:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phhase View Post
    Ahhhhhh, I see. Less a chemical issue, and more like it's going through the lifetime of a soda, and becoming flat on the other side. Interesting. Is there a way to preserve more gas without risking explosion? Some kinda valve?
    I am not sure why one would want to preserve the gas. I think there are some commercial setups that capture it for use in forced carbonation. If you're thinking about the lost aromatics, just use more of the herb or spice, or add it after fermentation is complete.


    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    @Kneenibble:

    My background is industrial brewing and distilling. That pretty much shapes and informs my approach when it comes to all things alcohol-related. My focus is not on the basics of how things work, but rather on creating a controlled environment, working in a clean way and creating processes that will lead to stable and repeatable results. We're using a 5 vessel 20HL setup for production, so the tips I give are based on replicating this on a level that is doable for a home-brewer.
    I am definitely on the same page with you in theory. Controlled and clean environment with repeatable results.

    Ok, for the particulars:

    - You are correct that honey is roughly 80% straight glucose-fructose. What matters are the target ABV and "Sweetness" of the final product, tho.

    - Solaris actually wrote the right thing there: Denaturalizing the honey by caramelizing will have a huge effect on the whole process. We can discuss this in detail if you want.
    Almost the entirety of honey is fermentable, even the majority of its higher sugars. The only way to have sweetness in a mead is through inhibiting the yeast (with heat, chemicals, or filtration) and backsweetening, or by exhausting the alcohol tolerance of the yeast to leave residual sugar. Solaris's recipe for a bochet is not ideal when showcasing a unique or delicate monofloral honey, as the process destroys any varietal character. Orange blossom is one of the most desirable honeys in the US for mead, for example, and it seems a waste to use it in a bochet when a cheap wildflower honey would give you the same result. Also, from what I have read, cooking the honey (at least with the equipment one typically has at home) produces Maillard reactions with very little true caramelization, so the amount of higher unfermentable sugars is still minimal.

    - Your yeast pitch matters, especially when you don't have a fully controlled environment. If you don't use a ZKT with coolers or somehow have the ability to steady the temperature of your fermentation tanks, you should generally aim to pitch at the lowest level possible. That also means that any adjunct with anti-bacterial effects should be avoided, or rather delayed, from the fermentation to the lagering Process as the only net result you have is a higher pitch rate, which is both unnecessary and uncontrollable.
    This seems to be an example of the commercial scale not translating to the homebrew scale. I'm sure precise temperature control is critical with the exothermicity in a massive 20HL tank, but the 4 to 23 litre sized-batches that a homebrewer is typically working with will at most rise 2 or 3 degrees above ambient temperature no matter the pitch rate. In a mead, at a homebrew scale at least, you definitely want to pitch a robust amount of yeast and treat them well -- increasingly so the higher the starting gravity. They will be sluggish and smelly otherwise, and may stall. I suppose the other piece here is that lager yeasts are fairly rare in mead-making; wine yeasts are the most common, and ale yeasts to a lesser degree, which mostly do not require the colder temperatures.

    - Boiling, or mostly sterilizing/pasteurization is more of a matter of knowing the source product and handling bacteria besides the yeast strains chosen for fermentation. The closer you come to using natural-organic products as a base, the more this will become a problem.
    This may be another example of scale, where the risk to 20HL of product is too great to bear. Honey is innately antibiotic right up until it gets diluted, and the yeast will very quickly outcompete any latent organisms it harbours. I am certain that the big meaderies in the US, like Schramm's, don't use heat. An easier way that doesn't imperil the delicacies of the honey is to dose the must with sulfites and pitch after 24 hours. But I haven't done either, and so far all my mead has come out clean.
    Last edited by Kneenibble; 2018-12-14 at 10:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    @Kneenibble:

    When you work on an industrial scale, heating, cooling and yeast are more or less your only relevant cost factors. The other raw materials rarely matter and fluctuations there can be ignored.

    Beyond that, I get the feeling that we're talking by each other based on cultural and regional background and we should clear that up. In Germany, mead is not necessarily a "light thing" and we tend to brew it around or above the red wine range, meaning at least a specific gravity range of around 1130 for a final 15% ABV, more if possible.

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    Default Re: Mead-Brewing Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kneenibble View Post
    Solaris's recipe for a bochet is not ideal when showcasing a unique or delicate monofloral honey, as the process destroys any varietal character. Orange blossom is one of the most desirable honeys in the US for mead, for example, and it seems a waste to use it in a bochet when a cheap wildflower honey would give you the same result.
    Corn syrup will give you a similar result.
    I got the honey for about two dollars a pound, which is why I used the kind that I did (around here, that's a steal for honey). Menards had it on sale. Bought as much as the wife would let me get away with. She's still finding stashes of it hidden throughout the apartment.

    I can quit any time I want. Honest.
    Last edited by Solaris; 2018-12-14 at 07:25 PM.
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