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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Dec 2018

    Default Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    I am looking to make a angelic long bow for one of my players, and have it poses the soul of a lawful good agenel. I'am just not sure how I want to go about it, but I do know that I want it to be living with a mind of it own. I also want to it have some con's because it see its self an individual and not a bow. I also want it to have cool effects and such. I am just stumped on what they all should be, and also the flavors for it. I was love some help guys.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Depending on the power level you're aiming for you could base it's abilities off the Holy Avenger from the DMG (just not a sword).

    Alternatives would be to give it a necklace of prayer beads-esque spellcasting. You could have it require no ammunition and deal radiant damage instead (bolts of holy light appear when the bow is drawn).

    That last one is interesting as it will be sometimes useful and sometimes detrimental.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

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    The PCs, walk into a town they've never before visited together, all the villagers stop & stare at them. The PCs realise why when they get to the fountain at the centre of town, there are accurate statues of each of them, even down to the gear they currently carry. The statues have been here for generations...

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    thoroughlyS's Avatar

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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Could you give us some info about your campaign in general? What is the goal you have for your party, and can the item be tied to that in some way? What are the members of the party, and how do they act? What level are they? How powerful do you want this item to be?
    Goblin in the Playground

    Most 3.5 thing I've ever seen: RAW on RAW. Love you, Curmudgeon.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    An angel was shaped into the bow and given to a great hero, but the hero sacrificed himself in a great battle and his belongings were never recovered. The bow lay untouched for millenia before reaching the hands of the new user. The angel is still lawful good, but has gone a little bit strange, and constantly confuses past and present.

    The bow is linked to an angel warrior who doesn't like being called away from his regular duties except in the direst of circumstances.

    When the bow is wielded, the angel takes total control of the user.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomthom View Post
    Depending on the power level you're aiming for you could base it's abilities off the Holy Avenger from the DMG (just not a sword).

    Alternatives would be to give it a necklace of prayer beads-esque spellcasting. You could have it require no ammunition and deal radiant damage instead (bolts of holy light appear when the bow is drawn).

    That last one is interesting as it will be sometimes useful and sometimes detrimental.
    Definitely the bolded part, imho.

    I imagine this bow would look like angel's wings spread wide open without a string between them, but when you make the gesture of drawing the string, a radiant arrow appears to nock itself, ready to be shot (but only if no other arrow is provided; any other arrow would function as normal with a magical bow)

    Given that most people encounter angels at fairly high level (weakest of them being Deva at CR 10), I'd say that this bow would have to be at least +2 (although probably +3) weapon on its own.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2018-12-07 at 05:21 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Suggested item:

    +X Longbow
    Choose X based on current power level of group
    Bow does Radiant Damage instead of Piercing

    Special Ability - If the user dies while serving a shared purpose with the bow, the enchantment on the bow breaks allowing the Deva contained within to take physical form once again. The Deva will cast Raise Dead on the wielder at the first opportunity and remain to protect the group until the current mission is completed.

    The twist is that the previous "hero" wielding the bow ended up turning his back on his faith and died faithless and alone in the Abyss. The Deva/Bow has lain for a long time without a wielder and is hoping to find a true hero who can take up it's cause once again.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    People have made some great suggestions for the mechanics of a powerful Angelic Bow. But as far as the "cons", like you indicated in the OP it's got a mind of its own, so give it a STRONG personality.

    Maybe, as a LG Celestial being, its got the mindset of a stereotypically uptight, inflexible, judgmental Paladin and it expects the user to OBEY it. Maybe it even has a formal Oath with Tenets it insists upon the user upholding or else it refuses to function (either entirely or just no magic benefits beyond a normal longbow, kind of like a pre-5e Paladin that loses their class features for violating their code of conduct)

    Now that gives me an idea as well, if you go with the thing requiring the user to follow certain Tenets, one of the benefits (depending on how powerful you want to make it) could even be access to the Oath Spells of a Paladin. Maybe that's a feature that needs to be unlocked by abiding by the Tenets -and- using the bow to achieve some great victory for the forces of Lawful Good

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    If you have a copy of the Dungeon Master's guide, look towards the front of the magic item section, there's a few pages about personalising magic items that can give them additional minor bonuses.

    I did it for one of my characters recently, Use the charts to determine creator, who it was made for, some minor anomalous (Beneficial, flavour or minor inconvenience) properties it has then you could use the minor beneficial and detrimental charts in the artefact section and give it one of each to produce a unique weapon, such as this one below I rolled up for one of my groups characters:

    Katana was forged by a dwarf. The Blade is very durable for it's thickness and bears runes that extend 1/3rd of the way up the blade.
    An old legend tells of an ancient hero that once wielded a weapon that appeared much like this one, drawing you to it. however, it's cursed nature was revealed to you once you attuned to it, as the blade regularly peals for offerings of fresh humanoid blood, or the weapons properties cease to function.
    The weapon, when placated, whispers warning to you when an enemy is near or plans to strike, you get +2 to initiative rolls as long as you are not incapacitated
    the blade can read, speak and understand the languages you can understand.
    your blade can "hear and see" out to 30ft
    the Blade, when placated, is of good temperament and of a neutral good alignment. but when not anointed with blood, it quickly becomes temperamental and aggressive.
    The blade also has an agenda of it's own, seeking to lead a bloody crusade against the servants of a particular Deity, seeking to defeat, weaken or destroy the deity's servants wherever they may dare take root
    Whilst wielding the blade, you have resistance against slashing damage. however, animals are instinctively aware of the blade's bloodthirsty nature, leading animals to react with hostility to you when you are within 30ft.

    And an angelic one that happened to be rolled that night:

    weapon was created by celestials, the weapon is half normal weight and inscribed with feathered wings, suns and other symbols of good. fiends find the item repulsive.
    The weapon is central to an ancient prophecy and it's bearer is destined to play a key role in the unravelling of the event.
    the bearer can understand and speak Celestial.
    Whilst being wielded, you feel fortunate and optimistic about the future. Butterflies and other animals frolic in the items presence.
    can cast Sacred flame as an action.
    Your appearance takes on an angelic twist (Faint halo and transparent shining wings).

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Use the longbow as the base weapon, give it +2 to attack and damage with an extra 1d4 radiant damage tacked on, and the following feature:

    The bow has 4 charges. Once per turn, when you make an attack with this longbow, you can choose to spend a charge to conjure an arrow of light. When you loose this arrow from this bow, a line of radiant energy that is 600 feet long and 5 feet wide fires from the bow. Each creature within this line must make a Dexterity saving throw (DC = 8 + Proficiency Bonus + Dexterity Modifier), taking radiant damage equal to the bow's normal damage (1d8 + 1d4 + Dexterity Modifier +2) on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful save. Fiends and undead have disadvantage on this saving throw. The bow regains 1d4 expended charges daily at dawn.

    Once per day, you can allow the spirit of the angel within the bow to imbue you with its strength. For 1 minute, you gain the following benefits:
    - a pair of spectral angelic wings emerge from your back. You gain a flying speed of 30 feet. If you already have a flying speed, your flying speed increases by 30 feet.
    - Fiends and undead within 30 feet of you must make a Wisdom saving throw (DC 15) or become frightened of you for 1 minute. While frightened, they are vulnerable to any damage you deal to them. Creatures can repeat the saving throw at the end of their turn, ending the effect on a success.

    For the cons, have it be that the bow will never attack a non-fiend/undead unless it is in self-defense (in other words the player can't be the aggressor). The player can still fire the bow, but it will lose its magical properties against these targets (i.e. doesn't have +2, doesn't deal 1d4 radiant damage, and can't use the light arrow). You could also have a personality change occur during the angelic possession, or maybe even a blatant takeover.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    I'll toss my hat in the ring.
    Celestial storm longbow
    The soul of the arch angel (insert name here) was willingly sealed in the bow when (s)he gave his/her life for a mortal that (s)he loved. The freed spirit took residence in the bow, as the angel vowed to care for their love even after death. Centuries have passed and the bow has been forgotten by history. Now the bow appears as a regular bow carved in the shape of a pair of spread wings made of birch wood. In its inert state the bow registers as magical. When identify is cast on it it shows as a +1 bow. After the weilder does a deed the arch angel considers worthy a closer link with the bow can be forged, the user feels as if the bow is calling them. The bow continues to act as +1 until attuned to. Once attuned it gains the following traits:

    Wonderous item: requires attunement
    Prerequisite good alignment
    This bow is a longbow with a scaling affinity.
    Lv 1 +1 / lv 5 + 2 / lv 10 + 3
    Roll one trait from the minor benefits table. This trait stays the same per user of the bow and is not rerolled.
    The bow does not consume ammo. Any nonmagic arrow placed in it is instantly vaporized with a holy light. The bow instead manifests arrows of holy energy. Instead of the normal piercing damage, this bow deals radiant damage.

    The user may cast detect good and evil at will. This bow has 6 charges that can be spent on the following effects.
    The user may spend 1 charge to cast daylight.
    The user may spend 2 charges to cast death ward.
    The user may expend 3 charges to cast curewounds at 5th level.
    The user may expend 4 charges to cast conjure volley (the damage type is radiant).
    The bow regains 1d4+ 2 charges at sunrise.

    If the user's alignment changes from good or the user performs a deed that the angel deems evil, the user becomes unattuned to the bow. They may only re-attune once their alignment is fixed or they right the wrong they performed before. This might include getting an innocent person they got killed resurected, returning an item they stole, ect. The angel may ask for a specific good deed be performed. If the wrong is so vile it cannot be righted the user may not re-attune with the bow through any method except the wish spell.
    The user may mentally speak to the arch angel while attuned. The angel can percieve through the weilder's senses.
    If the user dies while attuned the angel may decide to resurrect them depending on how their relationship is.
    The bow may be destroyed with the disentigrate spell or with a +3 weapon. If the bow is destroyed by someone other than the user while the user is attuned the soul possesses the user (giving them the stats and abilities of an arch angel) for the next minute. The angel has complete control over the shared body but the user is aware. This destroys the user's body and kills them. If the user destroys the weapon themself the user's souls is damned (not free for resurrection spells), the user dies and cannot be brought back to life until their soul is retrieved from hell.
    Last edited by MagneticKitty; 2018-12-07 at 01:40 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Check out pages 214-227 in the DMG. It has rules/charts/inspiration for making both sentient magic items and artifacts.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Dec 2018

    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Hi fellow table top bro's

    I first want to thank all of you replied to my post since it grate to feel like I'm not alone in the DM 5E community. Also I love a lot of the idea you guys brought to the table, and I will for sure be looking through them to but into this angelic longbow. I will also be sure to post the final product of this think tank in here for you all.

    Okay now thats out of the way here what I was going with why the bow was made: The angel went to one the nine hell's on a mission to free a high ranking paladin of God's of light and redemption where it was tragically saline the paladin bond with it not wanting to forget his friend, so took what little was lift of the planitar angel some wings a Halo and set out to make the bow. once the bow was made it had some unexpected results since some how the spirit of the angelic planitar hero was found to be residing with in it as a gift from the padlins goddess her self. paladin use it...dies in a great battle.... and the relic is lost in the deep woods.

    okay about the player this bow will be given to, and the campaign its level one starting, and its goal will be to have the player finder there way into a corrupted dark forest being polluted by dark magic from an evil high licht wizard/alchemist named evil garry who is building a dryder bear arm of darkness, and who has also back betrayed the spider goddess lyth for the driyder position. the players are clearing out the death house 5E one shot from wizards of the cost.

    The player is getting this as a boon for writing a 3 page back story in which his dad sold him in slavery as child for a deal with a crossroad demon working for a pit fiend for over 600 years. his father did this to go from being a none magic user to a magic user and then when his son was to go free at the end of this life in prison salver thing the father further betrayed his son by becoming a lich. His son is was told by the pit fined to hunt the father down.... well you get the rest. anyways my though was since he is a ranger and hunting evil things working for a pit demon why not make things interesting have him find this angelic long bow relic, and it be kind of a jimmy cricket if you will pushing him toward the light which sound right up sarahney ally after all she is the goddess of redemption.

    now be for you all get up in arms with pitchforks and torches my fellow DM; my plan to make the power balanced for a level 1 player is make it scalable this means the bow grows in power with the player. It will gain new abilities at 3,6,9,12, and 15 where it will take on its full form. this mean at level 1 it will only have one or two abilities with like a +1 or 2+ to hit in addition two being alive with a LG angels soul who wants to do it own thing meaning the bow may not let him use its power at level one all the time which mean it will work as a generic long bow.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Quote Originally Posted by lordginger View Post
    Hi fellow table top bro's

    now be for you all get up in arms with pitchforks and torches my fellow DM; my plan to make the power balanced for a level 1 player is make it scalable this means the bow grows in power with the player. It will gain new abilities at 3,6,9,12, and 15 where it will take on its full form. this mean at level 1 it will only have one or two abilities with like a +1 or 2+ to hit in addition two being alive with a LG angels soul who wants to do it own thing meaning the bow may not let him use its power at level one all the time which mean it will work as a generic long bow.
    I wouldn't recommend handing out an item like that at Level 1. Not that it breaks up balance as you can always throw harder monsters at a strong group, but it kinda shoehorns the player into the weapon choice at a very very early stage. With it growing in power it becomes something that also takes away from player agency as the campaign goes on. They really want to keep using this sweet bow they've been given but at the same time the angel may be driving player decisions. A player should be able to walk away from a Sentient item but in this case you're probably making it pretty difficult due to the power level of it if you tack on 5-6 abilities. Finally it becomes an item a player may feel they need to make their build around. Again, limits player choice and makes losing the item a crippling blow to the character.

    Adding abilities so often is a lot of power creep. I'd recommend you look at how Vestige items are done in the Tal'Dorei campaign from Critical Role. New abilities don't open up very often and are usually tied to some event that the player actions align with the items goals.
    Last edited by Wildarm; 2018-12-07 at 08:01 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildarm View Post
    I wouldn't recommend handing out an item like that at Level 1. Not that it breaks up balance as you can always throw harder monsters at a strong group, but it kinda shoehorns the player into the weapon choice at a very very early stage. With it growing in power it becomes something that also takes away from player agency as the campaign goes on. They really want to keep using this sweet bow they've been given but at the same time the angel may be driving player decisions. A player should be able to walk away from a Sentient item but in this case you're probably making it pretty difficult due to the power level of it if you tack on 5-6 abilities. Finally it becomes an item a player may feel they need to make their build around. Again, limits player choice and makes losing the item a crippling blow to the character.

    Adding abilities so often is a lot of power creep. I'd recommend you look at how Vestige items are done in the Tal'Dorei campaign from Critical Role. New abilities don't open up very often and are usually tied to some event that the player actions align with the items goals.
    I disagree only because the way the power structure of the bow is laid out, so I would say you where correct If was just handing a bow with a laundry list of abilities. but the way I am laying it out is that the item would only work if the player chose to use good actions, otherwise it would be a normal longbow this would end up being a magor con littming the power of the bow. furthermore, the item would have a level structure its self in which the power and abilities would progress much in the same way a class skill try would, and would mirror in some way that of the power class try for a paladin of that level; furthermore, if it only has say one ability add or two at first level. how then would that be overpowered as the level structure for the bow would be another limiting factor to the power of the bow. a third limiting factor would be how powerful the abilities that I choose to give the bow, so if the lower bow level abilities are weaker gain strength as the bow scales then that would limit its power as well. also for the charcht its self narratively speaking when this item is found and for the player it would fit well with their own back story.

    The other assumption is that I would railroading the player into LG, and the direction they would want to go. This would not be in fact the purpose of the angel spirit, but it would rather be that of jimmy cricket in which the bow acts a kind of wise sage guiding the character while still letting the character and player have free will to make their own choices. the bow its self has its own free will not only with choosing weather or not it would want to be used by the player or allow the player to use its abilities, but it could very well chose to leave the player seeking out another member of the party or an npc to go. the other factor is being a LG alignment item it would not seek to control the charter only an evil align item would make such a move, and also a sert it will on to the character case in point the evil blad grog wild that tried to eat his soul. also being the agnel would be a representation of Sarenrae and follower of the paladin code or taints of the ever light church it would go against what she is about. I feel given this and the character has free will to keep or lose the bow it would fallow up to the player weather or not they would keep the bow itself.

    As I said scaling is everything about this item, and i'm not just going to hand a player a nuclear device at level one to see what happens. but I will keep your points in mind, thanks for the heads up.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Okay guys this is the beta version let me know what you think

    Angelic Longbow of Zealander
    Bows name: keeshond which means protector of light, and also known as bow of the ever light



    Lore:
    Long ago the order of the dawn flower sent one of their own into the nine hells upon the order of sarenrae herself to save a soul she had redeem, and who was restored back to the ever light. They chose Commander Zealander who was a paladin of the highest caliber to do this task, and the goddess transported him to the deepest lowest tier of the hells. There in the dungeons he battle his way sallying demon and demagogy one after the other till he found this soul; however, just as Zealander was about to make his way out 6 power pit demons set a pone him. They were to powerful for him to defeat on his own, so he held up his holy avenger to call forth the power of the ever light. A Plantar angel called Keeshond member of sarenraes person guard know has protects of the ever light was summon to his side, and they alone together in the darkest part of hell fought for 7 days and nights as they made their way back to the portal the goddess had sent them. Yet just when victory seemed at hand the angel keeshond was slain with a jagged blade to the heart, He laid ding on the ground. Zeal reached up with one thrust behead the daemon who had kill his new comrade, and his heart with nothing but love pulled his fiend through the portal to safety only to find later the curliest of fates the blade that had killed his friend burnt all but the wings and halo from the once greater plantar angel. Zealander vowed before the ever light he was not forgetting he comrade and dear brother in arms. He took the wings and halo finding a ever light forge master, and gave him was left of keeshond. The forge mast asked what would you like me to do with this, and Zealander asked for a bow to strike down the hearts of darkness, so his friend may live on through his service to the ever light. It took 40 days and 40 nights to make the bow, but with ever beat of the forge hammer the bow was made. Only a strange thing happened with this long bow that neither the forge master or zeal had foreseen, for the bow its self-came to life with the very soul of the angel keeshond. It also held with it the angels powers and albites; furthermore, the voice of kees spoke to his friend thanking him for saving his very essences. Zealander took the bow and wields it on behalf of the ever light for many years till one day he diapered. The bow has been lost to time ever since then, and no one knows where it is at this time. Below is a list of the bows albites’.

    Item rarity: This bow is considered by the ever light to be mythic rare, and given its great power a priceless artifact of the ever light church.

    Stats for the bow:
    Considered two handed Composite Longbow, and its range is about 110 to 1000 ft. Its Damage is (1D10 + 1D4) for critical it is 3D6 on top of normal damage roll with a critical threat on D20 of 19+. The bow also requires attunement, and should the wilder decide to give the bow up at any time it will choose a new owner.

    Level Angelic Long Bow Abilities by Level
    1 Blessing of the dawn Flower: When the bow is attuned to it holder, they are considered to have a paladin or cleric caster level of one for the purpose of ever lights healing burst. Once a day after long rest the wielder can use this ability to channel divinity for a sun burst that radios outward in a 30ft spear healing for 2D6.

    Ever light arrow: The owner of the bow can shoot normal arrows through this bow, but they can also chose to spend an ever light charge embowing the arrow with the light of sarenrae in which the arrow becomes a red hot scorching sun burst adding 2D6 radiant damage. The bow holds 4 charges to expend per long rest.

    3 Cleric/paladin casting level 3
    Ever light arrow: 2 additions charges
    Blessing of the dawn flower: 3D6
    Rather of the dawn flower: owner of the bow can spend ever light arrow charges to cast smite on a single arrow dealing 3D8 radiant damage

    6 Cleric/paladin casting level 5
    Ever light arrow: 3 additions charges
    Blessing of the dawn flower: 5D6 twice a day now
    Rather of the dawn flower: owner of the bow can spend ever light arrow charges to cast smite on a single arrow dealing 5D8 radiant damage
    Sight of the ever light: the owner of the bow gain the ability to see undead/evil with for 1 minute per caster level with a DC 17 wisdom check
    Dawn flowers gift: while holding the bow its wilder gain divine health similar to that of a paladin

    9 radios also expands to 60 ft in addition user can choose to spend all for charges of dawn flowers blessing for AOE that not only heals 4D8, but now can also deal radiant damage for that amount as well now as the dawn flowers bloom in which radiant flaming pedals of sun light bloom out ward for 60ft targeting evil, undead, and fined
    Rather of the dawn flower: owner of the bow can spend ever light arrow charges to cast smite on a single arrow dealing 5D8 radiant damage
    Glow of the ever light: an Aura emits outward from the bow through the holder for 30ft in which they can choose to see the bow once per long rest to the following list of auras: aura of good, aura of courage, aura of resolve, and aura of justice.

    12 Cleric/paladin casting level 7, Ever light arrow: 4 additions charges
    Blessing of the dawn flower: 5D8 and can now do 6 per day
    Rather of the dawn flower: goes up to 2D12
    Angelic ally: Once per day as a full action, you can summon a movanic deva to aid you. You gain telepathy with the movanic deva to a range of 100ft. the deva follow your commands perfectly for 1 min per hit die you own before vanishing back to the ever light. The deva doesn’t follow commands that would cause it to violate its alignment by committing evil acts, and it could even attack you if the command is particularly egregious.
    Domain of the dawn flower: the bows owner now a the sun domains benefits

    15 Cleric/paladin casting level 8
    Ever light arrow: 2 additions charges
    Blessing of the dawn flower: 5D8 and can now do 6 per day
    Wings of the ever light: 3 times per day chose to take on the wings of the bow for 1 minute per caster level in addition to the bow despairing you are now able to make the gesture of drawing the bow string with your hangs to shoot arrows of light equal to the number of charges you have.
    Rather of the dawn flower: 3D12 and can be down 4 times per day with no charge cost

    18 Ever light arrow: 4 additions charges
    Blessing of the dawn flower: 5D8 and can now do 6 per day
    Rather of the dawn flower: goes up to 4D12 and can do it 6 times a day
    Bloom of the dawn flower: radios increases to 80ft
    Power of the deva: the bows owner now gains the stats of a deva again class angel, and grows wings matching that of the bow.

    Touch of the ever light: bows owner can touch 2 twice per day to being an individuals of their choosing back to full hit points, and gains blessing of the ever light for 1 min per level giving them advantage on all attach rolls.

    DC 14 wisdom check grants all who pick up this bow one conversation with keeshound, and access to the Notes from Zealander:

    I write this note for all who may find my friend keeshound if you should find him know he is a gift from sarenrae our dawn flower. She has brought him to you for a greater purpose then you may know yourself. This being said I have found that he has a mind of his own, and he will own work or grant access to his above albites’ to those who true follow the right road of the ever light. Otherwise you may just consider him a fancy compound long bow with bird feathers sorry old friend, and the bows responded back say,’’ its okay zeal when your right your right I shall no work for those who do not follow my dawn flowers light. If you should do this then I will give great blessing a pone you my child, but you must adhere to the following of your own choice to your very soul.

    Your charge: the dawnflower values the redemptive power of compassion and patience, and extends them to all who might be capable of good in their hearts. Offer to heal a stranger of his wounds, either by using the powers I grant you through sarenrae, your own, by potions, or even scroll. Tell the stranger it is by the will of the dawn flower that you share this gift. You may also use your heal skill to perform this act of healing service if you cannot find a stanger to accept your offer stand beneath the open sky during the daylight hours then blind fold your self a red and gold and try to find the sun in the sky through the layer of fabric to gain a +3 sacred bonus on perception checks.

    Do this and I will bless you my child, and if you chose to follow the paladins code of the dawn flower even grater you shall be here is whats need if you choose this path:

    The paladins of the Dawnflower are fierce warriors, like their goddess. They provide hope to the weak and support to the righteous. Their tenets include:
    • I will protect my allies with my life. They are my light and my strength, as I am their light and their strength. We rise together.
    • I will seek out and destroy the spawn of the Rough Beast. If I cannot defeat them, I will give my life trying. If my life would be wasted in the attempt, I will find allies. If any fall because of my inaction, their deaths lie upon my soul, and I will atone for each.
    • I am fair to others. I expect nothing for myself but that which I need to survive.
    • The best battle is a battle I win. If I die, I can no longer fight. I will fight fairly when the fight is fair, and I will strike quickly and without mercy when it is not.
    • I will redeem the ignorant with my words and my actions. If they will not turn toward the light, I will redeem them by the sword.
    • I will not abide evil, and will combat it with steel when words are not enough. I do not flinch from my faith, and do not fear embarrassment. My soul cannot be bought for all the stars in the sky.
    • I will show the less fortunate the light of the Dawnflower. I will live my life as her mortal blade, shining with the light of truth.
    • Each day is another step toward perfection. I will not turn back into the dark

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Based on the proposal you made above and your references to Sarenrae, I'm assuming that you're familiar with Pathfinder to some degree. Probably playing, or running, maybe even just tangentially through Critical Role (which started as a Pathfinder game)...

    It is very important to understand the difference in scale between Pathfinder and 5e. Magic items were an expected part of character progression in Pathfinder (thanks to its roots in 3rd Edition D&D). They were assumed in the core system math, and a naked character was at an inherent disadvantage. In 5e, the game assumes no magic items. So handing out an item like the one you proposed would be pretty out of line with the system. Simply put, that kind of item is way too much at every stage in the game, and scales very quickly. If you were to look at every "upgrade" as a unique magic item, this character would be decked out like a Christmas tree.

    My primary recommendation is to absolutely pare down the list of features to a more comparable degree.



    Quote Originally Posted by lordginger View Post
    The player is getting this as a boon for writing a 3 page back story...
    This may be a difference in DM style, but I wouldn't consider a three page backstory to be so impressive as to reward with an item that eventually outpaced artifacts (plural).

    I do like that you took inspiration from the backstory to create the beginnings of a plot thread. Giving the player the option of escaping the path of darkness is pretty interesting. More on that later.
    Quote Originally Posted by lordginger View Post
    I disagree only because the way the power structure of the bow is laid out, so I would say you where correct If was just handing a bow with a laundry list of abilities.
    This would definitely qualify as a laundry list (even by Pathfinder standards). It starts off with unique weapon properties (e.g. range, damage, critical) and introduces multiple scaling magical effects. There are no comparable items in the entirety of 5e, save maybe artifacts. Items usually have one major benefit (e.g. cloak of displacement) or a few minor benefits (e.g. frost brand, weapon of warning).

    I understand the temptation to make something unique, powerful, and uniquely powerful, but this is way way overboard.
    Quote Originally Posted by lordginger View Post
    furthermore, the item would have a level structure its self in which the power and abilities would progress much in the same way a class skill try would, and would mirror in some way that of the power class try for a paladin of that level;
    Some of the features in your proposal are effectively class features. I would be really careful about that; make sure not to step on the toes of another player. Granted, I doubt anyone would be mad about the group as a whole getting more healing... Divine Smite on the other hand, might upset any paladins in the party.

    In general, I would recommend against this type of design. If a player wants those effects, they could take levels in cleric or paladin.
    Quote Originally Posted by lordginger View Post
    furthermore, if it only has say one ability add or two at first level. how then would that be overpowered as the level structure for the bow would be another limiting factor to the power of the bow. a third limiting factor would be how powerful the abilities that I choose to give the bow, so if the lower bow level abilities are weaker gain strength as the bow scales then that would limit its power as well.
    The proposed weapon properties would make this definitively the best ranged weapon in the game. Highest damage, range, critical threshold, and critical damage. This could very easily overshadow any other martial characters in terms of at-will damage. After that, the character gains free Divine Smites that deal more damage than a paladin of the same level. Eventually you can summon a creature (which isn't defined in this edition, but I'm just going to assume a Deva), which far outstrips anything a caster could summon at that point. Do you see where I'm going with this?



    Quote Originally Posted by lordginger View Post
    The other assumption is that I would railroading the player into LG, and the direction they would want to go.
    Spoiler: Railroading
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by lordginger View Post
    but the way I am laying it out is that the item would only work if the player chose to use good actions, otherwise it would be a normal longbow this would end up being a magor con littming the power of the bow.
    Quote Originally Posted by lordginger View Post
    the bow its self has its own free will not only with choosing weather or not it would want to be used by the player or allow the player to use its abilities, but it could very well chose to leave the player seeking out another member of the party or an npc to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by lordginger View Post
    I feel given this and the character has free will to keep or lose the bow it would fallow up to the player weather or not they would keep the bow itself.

    The activities you described in the above quoted posts are the one people are wary of. Sure, it's not really "railroading", but this is effectively an ultimatum. "If you don't act a certain way, this item can turn off. If you don't change how you act after that, it might go away." This is the same kind of behavior from DMs that people point to when they talk about how it used to not be fun to play a paladin. And when the thing they could lose is this powerful, it isn't really much of a choice at all.



    Quote Originally Posted by lordginger View Post
    DC 14 wisdom check grants all who pick up this bow one conversation with keeshound, and access to the Notes from Zealander:
    Locking this kind of information behind a check is unnecessary. Just use the normal rules for identifying items, listed in the DMG.
    Quote Originally Posted by lordginger View Post
    I write this note for all who may find my friend keeshound if you should find him know he is a gift from sarenrae our dawn flower. She has brought him to you for a greater purpose then you may know yourself. This being said I have found that he has a mind of his own, and he will own work or grant access to his above albites’ to those who true follow the right road of the ever light. Otherwise you may just consider him a fancy compound long bow with bird feathers sorry old friend, and the bows responded back say,’’ its okay zeal when your right your right I shall no work for those who do not follow my dawn flowers light. If you should do this then I will give great blessing a pone you my child, but you must adhere to the following of your own choice to your very soul.
    I feel like this may come across as rude, but this is poorly written. If this is supposed to be a note from the former wielder, then it shouldn't address the bow. It also shouldn't say stuff like "grant access to the above abilities".
    Quote Originally Posted by lordginger View Post
    Your charge: the dawnflower values the redemptive power of compassion and patience, and extends them to all who might be capable of good in their hearts. Offer to heal a stranger of his wounds, either by using the powers I grant you through sarenrae, your own, by potions, or even scroll. Tell the stranger it is by the will of the dawn flower that you share this gift. You may also use your heal skill to perform this act of healing service if you cannot find a stanger to accept your offer stand beneath the open sky during the daylight hours then blind fold your self a red and gold and try to find the sun in the sky through the layer of fabric to gain a +3 sacred bonus on perception checks.
    Ditto. If this is the bow talking to the player, why would it mention stuff like a bonus to a check. Also, sacred bonuses aren't a thing in this edition (bonuses don't have types).



    Spoiler: Weapon Analysis
    Show
    Stats
    Composite bows aren't a thing in 5e, and the stats don't really line up with anything that is. Critical threat ranges aren't a thing in this edition (outside of the Champion fighter) and the extra 1d4 doesn't have any explanation. Just use the stats of a longbow, and you'll be fine. It's already the weapon of choice for a lot of ranged weapon users, so you shouldn't need to give further incentives.

    Blessing of The Dawnflower
    This feature by itself would already be really powerful, especially considering that the amount healed, area, and number of uses all increase. There are also a few areas which are unclear. It mentions having a cleric or paladin caster level (which isn't a thing in this edition), but never uses it for anything. At 9th level, it mentions "expending all four charges", but this feature doesn't reference charges anywhere else. Are these supposed to be the charges from Everlight Arrow? Even then, the bow would have nine charges by that point, not four. Also, it says that you can use it six times at 12th level, which would just be ridiculous amounts of healing. That line is repeated for every "upgrade" after that, so I'm not sure if that's just a typo. All told, this is pretty much unilaterally superior to Preserve Life (from the life domain), which I'm assuming this was based on.

    Everlight Arrow
    If this triggers on a hit (meaning that you don't ever waste a charge) this is basically Divine Smite. At that point, I don't see why you would include both this and Wrath of the Dawnflower. If this is not guaranteed, then this immediately becomes obsolete after 3rd level. Why would the player ever use this when they can spend a charge for Wrath of the Dawnflower instead?

    Wrath of the Dawnflower
    This is literally just Divine Smite, from the paladin, except you can use it more often than a paladin of the same level, and it has a better cost efficiency. At 3rd level, you can use this feature six times for 3d8 damage each, when a paladin can only use Divine Smite three times for 2d8 each. At 6th level, you can use it nine times for 5d8, compared to a paladin having four 2d8 and three 3d8. Then it drops in damage at 12th level, going from 5d8 to 2d12. Even then, you're pumping out more damage than a paladin would be. And what exactly is the point of adding additional uses that don't cost charges? Why not just add charges?

    Sight of the Everlight
    I'm not even sure what this feature is supposed to do? Does it mean you can see invisible undead and evil creatures? Does it automatically detect if a creature is evil or undead? Why is there a DC? Does it have a limited number of uses? Do you need to beat the DC to use it? On top of all this, scaling by caster level isn't a thing in this edition.

    Dawnflower's Gift
    This is just straight up stapling a class feature onto this item. Bad design all around.

    Glow of the Everlight
    Ditto. And its better than a paladin of the same level, because the radius is bigger, and you get earlier access to two auras.

    Angelic Ally
    Trumps any summoning a character of the same level could do. And scaling by hit dice also isn't a thing in this edition. I'm beginning to sense a pattern for most of these features...

    Domain of the Dawnflower
    As written, this is either completely worthless, or massively unfair. There is no sun domain in 5e, so either you mean a homebrew one, or you mean the light domain. Granting all the features from a cleric domain would just be disgustingly busted. This would've been much fairer in Pathfinder, where each domain had a single minor feature associated with it (e.g. granting Greater Turn Undead).

    Wings of the Everlight
    This is one of the most reasonable features here. It comes kind of late compared to other flying items (e.g. winged boots, wings of flying). I could see this being the second feature of the bow, gained around Tier 2. Having to expend a charge to attack is pretty bad, especially if they burned through the charges smiting already.

    Bloom of the Dawnflower
    This feature is never actually described anywhere... Is this in reference to the damaging use of Blessing of the Dawnflower? If so, this is pretty unremarkable.

    Power of the Deva
    Just ridiculous. Truly flooring. Either this means you gain all the features of a Deva (e.g. Angelic Weapons for 4d8 extra radiant damage on weapon attacks) or you replace the character's features with those of a Deva. Permanantly. Either way this is awful. Poorly designed.

    If you just meant gaining the ability scores and fly speed, this would still be laughably bad. "All your ability scores become 18!"

    Touch of the Everlight
    Basically two free castings of heal (but better) plus advantage on attacks. Again, duration based on caster level isn't a thing. Still overpowered, but not nearly as bad as Power of the Deva.




    Mechanically speaking, this proposal is just too much. Not only is it ridiculously overloaded with abilities (the majority of which basically staple on class features), it's also not very purposeful. It just kind of throws a load of "angel" "cleric" and "paladin" powers at the player, not for any specific reason, just because it "fits the theme".

    I'll be making a later post with my ideas about what this item should be and do.
    Last edited by thoroughlyS; 2018-12-14 at 09:34 AM.
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  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Random ideas:
    - Holder is constantly under Protection from Good and Evil
    - Fiends and undead take an extra 2d8 radiant damage per hit
    - When you crit, the weapon deals an additional 20 damage
    - Holder can cast Fly once
    - Holder has resistance to necrotic damage
    - Holder has advantage on CHA checks against good-aligned fellas

    Mix and match.

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Default Re: Angelic Long Bow Idea Help

    Urasim
    Wondrous item, legendary (requires attunement by a creature of non-evil alignment)

    This golden chain is inlaid with a pair of fire opals on either side of a badge depicting the symbol of Sarenrae. The badge seems to shine brightest in sunlight and is pleasantly warm to the touch. You can use this holy symbol as a spellcasting focus. Urasim has 3 charges, and it regains 1d3 expended charges daily at dawn. While wearing it, you can use a bonus action and expend 1 charge to cast a prepared spell from it without requiring your concentration. Each day at dawn, the DM decides the prepared spell or determines it randomly.
    d6 Prepared Spell
    1 cure wounds (+4 modifier)
    2-3 divine favor
    4-5 protection from evil and good
    6 shield of faith
    Urasim prepares an additional spell at 5th and 11th level.
    Radiance of the Everlight. You can use an action to magically manifest halo. The halo sheds bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet. Creatures within the bright light are comfortable as if the temperature were that of a balmy day, so they suffer no ill effects from the weather's temperature extremes. The halo lasts until you use an action to douse it, remove Urasim, or are incapacitated.
    Starting at 11th level, you can expend a charge when you manifest the halo to shed sunlight in a 10-foot radius.
    Wings of Splendor. Beginning at 5th level, Urasim has 7 charges and regains 1d6 + 1 expended charges daily at dawn. While wearing it, you can use an action and expend 2 charges to manifest a pair of magical, angelic wings. You gain a flying speed of 30 feet. You can use these wings to fly for up to 1 hour, all at once or in several shorter flights, each one using a minimum of 1 minute from the duration. If you are flying when the duration expires, you descend at a rate of 30 feet per round until you land. The wings disappear after the duration is reached or after 8 hours.
    Everlight Warden. Beginning at 11th level, while wearing Urasim you can use an action to cast guardian of faith from it. While guardian of faith is active, you can cast commune. If one spell ends, so does the other. Urasim can’t be used this way again until the next dawn.
    Sentience. Urasim is a sentient lawful good holy symbol with an Intelligence of 13, a Wisdom of 13, and a Charisma of 18. It has hearing and vision to a range of 60 feet.
    The holy symbol communicates telepathically with its wearer and can speak, read, and understand Common and Celestial. While attuned to it, you can speak and understand Celestial.
    Personality. Urasim is doting and conscientious, often reminding its wearer to act in a proper manner. It takes great joy in helping others, and delights in listening to stories of heroes. Its demeanor noticeably shifts in the throes of battle, where it zealously demands that its wearer protect others.
    Urasim seeks to advance the interests of Sarenrae, the Healing Light. It always acts according to the tenets bestowed unto it by its original owner, Andberaht. Despite its dogmatic outlook, Urasim tries to understand the decisions of its wearer, instead of trying to control their every action. Urasim would like nothing more than to spread devotion to Sarenrae, but understands the arduous path of conversion.
    Conflict only arises with Urasim if the wearer commits an act of cruelty or malice.
    Urasim (whose name means "protector of light" or "boundless light") was originally borne by Andberaht, a righteous paladin sworn to the service of Sarenrae. Bearing witness to his many acts of compassion and retribution, Urasim took on a life of its own, fueled by the same fervor within Andberaht.
    The paladin taught Urasim the meaning behind his actions, and instilled in it the tenets of his oath. After his passing, Urasim was passed down a line of servants to the Dawnflower before being lost to time.

    Spoiler: Design Notes
    Show
    This item fits far better with the paradigm of 5e, having far fewer features than your initial proposal. Initially, it acts kind of like a wand, expanding the player's repertoire of spells. All of the spells are directly from the paladin spell list. I also included a nice bonus for them in the form of either a reduced casting time or automatic duration. This is a flavorful, strong, benefit that doesn't force the player into any playstyle. I wanted to avoid giving them too many new buttons, so I kept it to one spell per day. The player also gets a nice quality-of-life benefit which is thematic for both paladins and rangers (an aura that provides an exploration benefit).
    At 5th level, they get a really nice major benefit (flight is always a plus) and an expansion to their 1st level feature.
    For 11th level, I modified your idea to summon an "angel" in the form of guardian of faith. To expand on this idea, they can even ask it questions instead of having it fight. Lastly they get a nifty little bump to Radiance of the Everlight, now that they can make it sunlight. Very niche, but entirely thematic.

    This item now provides a small list of boons, which are gained over time, and don't push the player towards any specific playstyle. On top of that, changing the backstory shifts how this item would regard the players. Instead of being a literal paragon of good (an angel), this item is more like an eager former student. It won't have all the answers, but it will try to do things the way the former owner used to.
    Last edited by thoroughlyS; 2019-04-06 at 11:44 AM.
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