OK, Newbie here. I've had the Players Handbook for one whole day...

[Cyclops08]

I have a few questions.

Multi Classing. I like the Warlock/Sorcerer. In the rules it gives a new spells cast list. I get the impression that multi class becomes an amalgam of the two classes.

1) OK, if I take two levels in Warlock and the rest as a sorcerer, does my eldritch blast continue to advance in level (i.e. 2 beams at 5th level)?

2) When I get new spells, can I choose from both spell lists?

3) Is this combo overpowered? I've read several threads where some DMs do not allow multi classing. I am reading some players are able to make a One Punch Man Multiclass characters.

I plan to tie the two classes together by combining a great old one and a gold dragon bloodline.

The great old one was a gold dragon titan who favored high elves. His lineage started eons ago and now rarely shows up in the elves. The dragon-titan tried and failed to attain deity status, and now his moldering corpse lies floating in the astral plane. BUT, He is not dead yet. after aeons of death-like slumber he has awakened - but can only reach out to his kin members of his bloodline. my Half elf hero is one of that blood line, a child of adventurers.

My hero responded to his call, but the blood magic was too great and overpowered the original connection.

Thanks for any response, guys!

[Yuki Akuma]

1. Cantrips advance by total level, not by caster level - so an Elf Fighter 20 still gets some use out of his racial cantrip, for example.

2. No. You get the spells of the class you leveled up in - so as a Warlock 2/Sorcerer X you'll mostly have Sorcerer spells.

3. Nah, not really. It is good, don't get me wrong, but not overpowered.

Take special note that when multiclassing between Warlock and another class with Spellcasting, you do not follow the multiclassing rules for spell slots - Pact Magic and Spellcasting are different class features and don't combine.

You can, however, use spell slots from Pact Magic to cast Sorcerer spells, and spell slots from Spellcasting to cast Warlock spells. You can also use metamagic on your Warlock spells if you want.

[ImproperJustice]

Replying to one and 3:

1. Your right, cantrips scale with your total level which is nice, so two blasts at 5th!
3. Depends on what you end up doing with it?
Generally no.
5th edition does a mostly good job of balancing progression of single class characters vs. the versatility of multi-class characters.

2. Is more complicated mostly because Warlocks work differently than other casters.

When you advance, you will acquire spells and prepare spells as if you were a caster of the level you have in each class.

So if you are a 4th level character who is a 3rd level Sorceror and a 1st level Warlock, you have the spell slots of a 3rd level Sorceror and the spells known of a 3rd level Sorceror.
You also have the single Pact magic slot of a 1st level Warlock and the spells known of a 1st level Warlock.

What’s nice is that you can use the Pact slot to cast a single 1st level spell from either caster’s list or use your Sorceror slots to cast from the Warlock or Sorceror list.

Just to clarify, a Warlock is not a full caster so you will not use the Multi class caster table to determine your spell slots.

[lunaticfringe]

I have a few questions.

Multi Classing. I like the Warlock/Sorcerer. In the rules it gives a new spells cast list. I get the impression that multi class becomes an amalgam of the two classes.

1) OK, if I take two levels in Warlock and the rest as a sorcerer, does my eldritch blast continue to advance in level (i.e. 2 beams at 5th level)?

2) When I get new spells, can I choose from both spell lists?

3) Is this combo overpowered? I've read several threads where some DMs do not allow multi classing. I am reading some players are able to make a One Punch Man Multiclass characters.

I plan to tie the two classes together by combining a great old one and a gold dragon bloodline.

The great old one was a gold dragon titan who favored high elves. His lineage started eons ago and now rarely shows up in the elves. The dragon-titan tried and failed to attain deity status, and now his moldering corpse lies floating in the astral plane. BUT, He is not dead yet. after aeons of death-like slumber he has awakened - but can only reach out to his kin members of his bloodline. my Half elf hero is one of that blood line, a child of adventurers.

My hero responded to his call, but the blood magic was too great and overpowered the original connection.

Thanks for any response, guys!

1. All cantrips improve on Character level, so yes. At Warlock 2/Sorcerer 9 you shoot 3 beams because you are an 11 level character.

2. No you advance in classes as if you were single classed. When you gain you gain Sorcerer 3, you get to learn a new Sorcerer spell, it's got to be from the Sorcerer list and no higher than level 2. You can use Warlock Slots to cast Sorcerer Spells & vice versa.

3. Potentially. Coffee Lock is a specific Warlock/Sorcerer build that is considered broken when abused, but you can't do it with Warlock 2. Other people have a problem with Eldritch Blast scaling & quicken spell.

[Mr.Spastic]

One thing you should keep into account is that the level and number of spells you can cast will weaker than a straight sorcerer and you will have less versatility from the warlock. You also miss an ASI(ability score improvement)

For example, let's say you are level 5...

Warlock 2/ Sorcerer 3: Max spell level is 2. You have 2 invocations. You have 3 sorcery points. No ASI/feat

Sorcerer 5: Max spell level is 3. You have 5 sorcery points(more meta magic). ASI/feat

Warlock 5: Max spell level is 3(Hunger of Hadar). You have 3 invocations. ASI/feat. Pact Boon which can give you melee option, extra cantrips with option to get rituals, a familiar that can turn invisible.

While in the long run the multiclass will be able to dish out more on command damage with Quickened Eldritch Blasts, you sacrifice a lot of versatility and power in the lower levels. I really like you character concept so I'm not trying to force you to change your idea, but I do feel obligated to point out what you might be missing. Also, one way to take advantage of the multiclass is whenever you get a short rest and have Pact Magic Slot leftover, convert the Pact Magic slots into sorcery points and then convert those into spell slots that wont go away until a long rest. This basically gives you a free level one slot per short rest if you are a level two warlock.

[Cyclops08]

Warlock 2, Sorcerer 1
OK, so I will be able to cast 4 first level spells, 2 from each class plus one extra Pact spell?

The spells I will know are 3 first level WL and 2 Sorc and 2 Pact spells
plus 6 cantrips (2/4)

[Malifice]

Warlock 2, Sorcerer 1
OK, so I will be able to cast 4 first level spells, 2 from each class plus one extra Pact spell?

The spells I will know are 3 first level WL and 2 Sorc and 2 Pact spells
plus 6 cantrips (2/4)

No, you cast spells as a Sorcerer 1 (2 x 1st level spells per long rest) and a Warlock 2 (2 x 1st level spells per short rest).

Those spells can be any of the spells you know as a Warlock 2 (3 spells from memory), or Sorcerer 1 (also 3 spells from memory).

And yes; 6 cantrips total. When you learn them, they basically get rolled int a single pool (there are some slight rules interactions based on what class you learn them from though).

[Greywander]

1) OK, if I take two levels in Warlock and the rest as a sorcerer, does my eldritch blast continue to advance in level (i.e. 2 beams at 5th level)?

Cantrips scale with your character level, not your class level. This sort of thing can be tricky to get a handle on, as you need to pay special attention to the wording of the specific ability. In general, most class features scale based on your level in that class, but some exceptions do exist that scale with your character level. Cantrips are one of these exceptions. One reason for this may be that it is possible to get cantrips from non-class sources, such as racial spells or the Magic Initiate feat.

In other words, as long as you have 11 class levels, your Eldritch Blast will shoot three beam, it doesn't matter which classes you have levels in, or how many levels are in any given class, as long as the total adds up to 11 or more.

2) When I get new spells, can I choose from both spell lists?

No, you would choose spells for whichever class you gained a level in. Think of it this way, if you are a warlock 9 / sorcerer 4, and you gained a level of sorcerer (so you are now a sorcerer 5), you would choose your new spells as if you were a 5th level sorcerer with no other levels in any class. This means you could choose spells up to 3rd level from the sorcerer list, in this specific case.

Some people say that warlock multiclassing is tricky, but this is only because it works differently from other caster multiclasses. If you just think of your warlock and sorcerer classes as separate, it becomes much easier. Let's say, for example, you are a warlock 9 / sorcerer 5. What sorcerer spells can you learn, and how many spell slots do you have? You have everything a 5th level sorcerer would have (as in, ignore your warlock levels when considering your sorcerer abilities). What warlock spells can you learn, and how many pact magic slots do you have? You have everything a 9th level warlock would have (as in, ignore your sorcerer levels). So what are your total abilities? Just combine what you have as a sorcerer and what you have as a warlock together.

I suppose one thing I should point out is that you can cast sorcerer spells with warlock slots, and warlock spells with sorcerer spell slots. You still only have the spells and the slots that you would have if you were a single-classed character in that particular class, but you can "cross over" and cast spells from one class using slots from another class. In fact, warlock is the only class that works like this; other caster multiclasses have a combined pool of spell slots instead of a separate pool for each class.

3) Is this combo overpowered? I've read several threads where some DMs do not allow multi classing. I am reading some players are able to make a One Punch Man Multiclass characters.

No. If you're a new player, you don't have enough rules knowledge to make a truly broken character. Even then, 5e doesn't let you break characters to nearly the same degree that you could in 3.x or Pathfinder, and this goes for both OP broken and useless broken. Sorcerer/warlock is a popular multiclass, but so is any multiclass involving two CHA caster classes: paladin, bard, warlock, and sorcerer all see themselves combined in various configurations.

It's true that some DMs may not allow multiclassing. Some DMs might not allow warlocks. Some DMs might not allow spellcasters. This will be something you'll need to work out with your specific DM, and it's usually a good idea to clear your character concept with the DM ahead of time anyway. Multiclassing is considered an optional rule, though, and I can understand that some DMs might disallow multiclassing because of the mere potential to create unbalanced characters. Personally, I tend to be more permissive (and create/use a lot of homebrew), so YMMV on this.

I plan to tie the two classes together by combining a great old one and a gold dragon bloodline.

The great old one was a gold dragon titan who favored high elves. His lineage started eons ago and now rarely shows up in the elves. The dragon-titan tried and failed to attain deity status, and now his moldering corpse lies floating in the astral plane. BUT, He is not dead yet. after aeons of death-like slumber he has awakened - but can only reach out to his kin members of his bloodline. my Half elf hero is one of that blood line, a child of adventurers.

My hero responded to his call, but the blood magic was too great and overpowered the original connection.

Thanks for any response, guys!

I do like how you didn't let yourself be restricted by the fluff of the two classes. A GOO doesn't need to literally be a Lovecraftian horror, and it provides RP justification for your class choices.

In my opinion, I tend to view classes more as a package of mechanics that can be reflavored to fit your character theme as needed, though some class features tend to carry some obvious fluff with them that makes this difficult. But, for example, it's easy to reflavor a warlock as a cleric (use the warlock class features, but RP as a priest to your deity). Both classes get spooky powers from a higher being, so the implied fluff is already quite similar. Or you could be a sorcerer that gained your power from a contract with another entity.

In your case, you're the descendant of the servants/children of a spooky dead dragon. This would actually work as a backstory for a lot of classes, and could just as easily support a cleric or paladin as a sorcerer or warlock. In any case, the manifestation of power is a result of your bloodline, as well as (possibly) being chosen as the champion of a vestige (a dead god, basically; it's in the DMG), possibly with the goal of reviving them and helping them to attain deity status. I'm actually using a sort of similar backstory in a game I'm currently in (being the chosen one of a vestige, that is).

Warlock 2, Sorcerer 1
OK, so I will be able to cast 4 first level spells, 2 from each class plus one extra Pact spell?

The spells I will know are 3 first level WL and 2 Sorc and 2 Pact spells
plus 6 cantrips (2/4)

Let's say you are a warlock X / sorcerer Y, where X and Y are your levels in those classes, whatever they happen to be.

You will have all the spells, spell slots, cantrips, and other class features of a warlock X.
You will also have all the spells, spell slots, cantrips, and other class features of a sorcerer Y.
Your proficiency bonus, HP*, and cantrips will scale according to your character level, i.e. X+Y.

*HP is sort of class dependent. The only thing that changes, though, is the size of the hit die, which might give you a few more or less HP at a level up.

So, a warlock 2 / sorcerer 1 would indeed have 6 cantrips, 2 from warlock and 4 from sorcerer.
You would know 2 sorcerer spells, and have two 1st level spell slots that require a long rest to refresh. The same as a sorcerer 1 would have.
You would know 3 warlock spells, and have two 1st level pact magic slots that require a short rest to refresh, the same as a warlock 2 would have.
You can cast warlock spells with your sorcerer spell slot, and sorcerer spells with your pact magic slots. This can be handy since your warlock slots come back after only a short rest.

Hope this covers everything. Don't give up if you're still having trouble, rules being rules means they're still a bit of a complicated mess, especially for things like multiclassing.

[Cyclops08]

@ Graywander
Thank you, I think I've finally got it!

Nuther question. Witchbolt is on both spell lists, Does that spell scale at player level or caster level?

[JNAProductions]

Some people do see Warlock/Sorcerers as too good.

What I'd recommend doing is just talk to the DM and other players. Tell them your plan, and see if they have objections. If they don't at first, but feel overshadowed once play begins, talk to them again and see what you can do.

You seem like you're new to RPGs in general, so that's far and away the biggest advice I can give you. Talk to your fellow players when there's an issue or potential issue. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what we say on the forum (though we are a good source of rules knowledge and sanity checking) but it DOES matter what your friends think and do.

[MilkmanDanimal]

@ Graywander
Thank you, I think I've finally got it!

Nuther question. Witchbolt is on both spell lists, Does that spell scale at player level or caster level?

Witch Bolt scales at the slot level; if you cast it using a 2nd level slot, it scales up. So, if you cast it using a 2nd level slot, the initial damage is 2d12, then it's back to 1d12 in subsequent turns. If this sounds bad, it's because Witch Bolt is a really, really, really bad spell. I should throw some more "really"s in there. Anyways, a first level spell cast by a, say, 3rd level sorcerer using a 1st level slot does the exact same damage as if it were cast by a 20th level sorcerer using the 1st level slot. It's the slot that makes it scale upwards, not the caster level.

Also, if you're new, I'll give the usual advice of skipping multiclassing at first. It's a lot easier to learn the mechanics with one class, plus, well, Warlocks are weird when it comes to spellcasting and work a bit different than Sorcerers, so you've really got two sets of magical rules to learn there.

[lunaticfringe]

Why Witchbolt is Bad:

It has a short range for an attack spell. If it didn't require you to stay within 30ft of the target this wouldn't be as bad. Most creatures can move 30ft in a turn so a target can easily end your spell unless you stay right next to it for the duration, which isn't something you generally want to do as a caster concentrating on a spell.

It scales very poorly. After initial casting you can spend an Action to deal 1d12 damage, that never increases. At level 1 Fire Bolt & Eldritch Blast cost an Action and deal 1 less point of Damage on average and you didn't have to spend a Spell Slot to cast them. At Warlock 2 you can take Agonizing Blast making so you can add you charisma modifier to Eldritch Blast so it's and action to deal 1d10+3(or whatever) damage. Also most damage Cantrips scale in damage as noted earlier, so at level 5 it costs an Action to do 2dX damage without requiring concentration or a spell slot and probably from further away.

[sophontteks]

Warlock pact magic doesn't count as magic for multiclassing purposes, so your warlock levels do not count towards your spellcasting level at all. You will always be behind 2 full levels in your spellcasting power. Its a significant setback, so I'd back sure you are getting a lot out of 2 levels of warlock to make up for it. IMO a better cantrip isn't enough.

[Mr.Spastic]

At the level you are playing at it would be more productive to chose one or the other.

Sorcerer 3 has Meta Magic and Second Level Spell Slots

Warlock 3 has Pact Boon and Second Level Spell Slots

Warlock 2/sorcerer 1 has none of those things.

To give you some advice, Multi-Classing is almost always weaker than straight classes at lower levels. While at higher levels your character would make up for it, at lower levels it is more productive to just pick one class. I gave some more in depth examples in my previous post but I didn't realize that you were only level three.

Also the Pact Magic is separate from Spellcasting as others have said. Instead of having 4 level 1 slots and 2 level 3 slots that a sorcerer will have, you will have 4 level one spell slots(two of which recharge on a short rest). If you want some advice on how you can use those rules to your advantage look up any Coffeelock build. Most of them explain how those rules interact in great detail.

[Cyclops08]

OK a sample spell list:
Cantrips 2/4
------------------------------------------------
Eldritch Blast
True Strike
Prestidigitation
Mage Hand
Light
Fire Bolt


----------------Warlock spells
Protection from Good/Evil
Hellish Rebuke
Hex
----------------------------------------------
Bonus Pact spells
Dissonant Whispers
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Pact feature:
Awakened Mind. Telepathic communication, speak with any intelligent creature within 30 feet
------------------------------------------------
Invocations
Agonizing Blast
Mask of Many Faces (Disguise self at will)
------------------------------------------------------
SORCERER spells
Chromatic Orb
Detect Magic (why isn't this a cantrip?)

[lunaticfringe]

Detect Magic isn't a Cantrip because it's a Ritual Spell. If you the have Ritual Casting Feature you can cast it without using a slot.

Sorcerers, Warlocks, Rangers, Paladins, Eldritch Knights, Arcane Tricksters don't get the Ritual Casting Feature so they have to spend a slot to cast it. It's not a great choice if you are one of those classes and better left to the party Wizard, Bard, Cleric, or Druid.

There is a feat, Ritual Caster, that allows you to learn Rituals from a class' spell list. It requires 13 Int of Wis.

[GoodmanDL]

OK a sample spell list:
Cantrips 2/4
------------------------------------------------
Eldritch Blast
True Strike
Prestidigitation
Mage Hand
Light
Fire Bolt


----------------Warlock spells
Protection from Good/Evil
Hellish Rebuke
Hex
----------------------------------------------
Bonus Pact spells
Dissonant Whispers
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Pact feature:
Awakened Mind. Telepathic communication, speak with any intelligent creature within 30 feet
------------------------------------------------
Invocations
Agonizing Blast
Mask of Many Faces (Disguise self at will)
------------------------------------------------------
SORCERER spells
Chromatic Orb
Detect Magic (why isn't this a cantrip?)

As a note the "Bonus Pact Spells" are added to your Warlock Class List for following a Great Old One.. You do not automatically know them. You are allowed to pick those spells, while other Warlocks can't. But you still have to use your limited number of picks to know them.

[Cyclops08]

As a note the "Bonus Pact Spells" are added to your Warlock Class List for following a Great Old One.. You do not automatically know them. You are allowed to pick those spells, while other Warlocks can't. But you still have to use your limited number of picks to know them.

Shoot. and here I thought I was all jiggy with it.

Thanks for going the extra mile with the newb.

[Cyclops08]

Updated spell list:
Cantrips 2/4
------------------------------------------------
Eldritch Blast
True Strike
Prestidigitation
Mage Hand
Light
Fire Bolt


----------------Warlock spells
Protection from Good/Evil
Dissonant Whispers
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
----------------------------------------------
Pact feature:
Awakened Mind. Telepathic communication, speak with any intelligent creature within 30 feet
------------------------------------------------
Invocations
Agonizing Blast
Mask of Many Faces (Disguise self at will)
------------------------------------------------------
SORCERER spells
Chromatic Orb
Identify

[lunaticfringe]

Identify isn't a Sorcerer or Warlock spell, it's only on the Bard & Wizard list by default.

Here is a handy free site that you can use to sort spells by class.

[Mr.Spastic]

Also, i would recommend grabbing Hex. It is possibly the best spell in the game for a warlock.