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    Post Shadowdancer: the Rogue of Darkness

    Fairly simple; it's a shadowdancer conversion for 5e. I'm fairly new to 3.5e, but the class just looks really weak on paper. I'm converting it to be a rogue subclass.

    The Shadowdancer on the Homebrewery

    Summon Shadow
    At 3rd level, you can summon a shadow, an undead shade. There are several differences between this shadow and a normal shadow (listed below). As an interaction, you can command the Shadow to move up its speed and take an action. If not given any command, the shadow stays in place and takes the dodge action on your turn. The shadow will not go more than 60 feet away from you, and can hide in your natural shadow, becoming undetectable to nonmagical effects.

    • The shadow's alignment matches your own
    • You do not get a sneak attack from attacking an enemy within 5 feet of your shadow without advantage
    • The shadow adds your proficiency bonus to its AC and saving throws.
    • The shadow knows one language known by you of your choice.
    • The shadow only deals 2 necrotic damage on a hit from its strength drain action.
    • The shadow cannot drain a target's strength below 1.
    • Your shadow has the amount of hit dice listed in its statblock, or a number of hit dice equal to one third your level.
    • No new shadows rise from any target killed by your shadow.

    For each Ability Score Improvement class feature you have gained, your shadow's abilities also improve. Your shadow can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or it can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, your shadow can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

    If your shadow is reduced to 0 hit points, it disappears, leaving behind no physical form. It reappears at the end of a long rest.
    I'm not sure if that shadow should be summoned normally, or to allow casting Find Familiar with the Shadow as a bonus option. The changes are to increase the shadow's bulk and allow it some damage.

    Dance of Shade
    Starting at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Performance skill, if you did not already posses it, and learn the Silent Image spell. When you cast Silent Image using this ability, the resulting illusion will appear entirely in black and white. You can cast Silent Image in this way a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of once) and regain all uses at the end of a short rest. once per short rest. You can use this feature twice between short rests starting at 13th level

    If a creature uses its action to examine the image, the creature can determine that it is an illusion with a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check against a DC save of 8 + your Charisma (Preformance) Bonus. If the illusion should have noticeable color, that creature has advantage on this check.

    If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint to the creature.
    The illusion is stronger, to account for depending on it more.

    Shadow Jump
    Beginning at 9th level, while you are in dim light or darkness, you can teleport into another area of dim light or darkness you can see as a bonus action. You can teleport up to 5 feet for every rogue level you have.
    Unlimited instead of limited to a maximum distance a day, and 5 foot increments instead of 10 feet ones.

    Defensive Roll
    At 13th level, when you are reduced to 0 hit points but not killed outright, you can drop to 1 hit point instead. You can then move up to half your speed as a reaction without provoking attacks of opportunity. You can only use this ability once per long rest.
    I initially had an improved uncanny dodge with limited use, but this seems more thematically appropriate.

    Dual Shadow
    Starting at 17th level, you gain a second shadow. This shadow has the same stats and abilities as the first one, and can be given separate commands as part of the same interaction as the original shadow.

    Additionally, the damage from each shadow's strength drain action increases to 2d6 + it's Dexterity modifier strength modifier.

    If either of your shadows are destroyed, one of them will now reappear at the end of a short rest, and both will reappear at the end of a long rest.
    A power buff to the shadow, along with a second one. I'm hoping that scales reasonably well.

    Edit: I should probably link to the shadow. Alternatively, it's on page 347 of the SRD.
    Last edited by sandmote; 2018-12-11 at 12:48 PM.
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    Default Re: Shadowdancer: the Rogue of Darkness

    I suppose that's one way to do it. Although, you might want to take a closer look at the Monk's Way of Shadows. Some of these monks are colloquially known as ninjas or shadowdancers, as stated even in the Player's Handbook's description. If anything, you might want to consider borrowing some of the Way of Shadows' features.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2018-12-11 at 02:11 AM.
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    Default Re: Shadowdancer: the Rogue of Darkness

    Shadows use Dexterity, not Strength to modify to hit & Damage rolls. They have a 6 in strength.

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    Default Re: Shadowdancer: the Rogue of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by lunaticfringe View Post
    Shadows use Dexterity, not Strength to modify to hit & Damage rolls. They have a 6 in strength.
    Nothing of the sort was implied in the OP.

    FYI: Normally, shadows drain strength from their opponents when they hit; in other words, they deal damage to your strength score, and that damage can actually kill you. If you die from the Shadow's strength drain, you become a shadow yourself. It was a good move to not let the shadow that accompanies a shadowdancer kill a target with Strength drain, because it's potentially very quick death.


    Derp, my bad!
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2018-12-11 at 02:27 PM.
    My 5th Edition D&D Homebrew:
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    Default Re: Shadowdancer: the Rogue of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    I suppose that's one way to do it. Although, you might want to take a closer look at the Monk's Way of Shadows. Some of these monks are colloquially known as ninjas or shadowdancers, as stated even in the Player's Handbook's description. If anything, you might want to consider borrowing some of the Way of Shadows' features.
    I am now slightly upset, as I forgot about that subclass, and have been trying to make this separate from existing material. Still, I'm going to let Dance of Shade be used more often, in order to bring it closer in power to this.

    Any suggestions on how to differentiate Shadow Jump from the Way of Shadow's Shadow Step?

    Quote Originally Posted by lunaticfringe View Post
    Shadows use Dexterity, not Strength to modify to hit & Damage rolls. They have a 6 in strength.
    Good catch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Nothing of the sort was implied in the OP.
    It's implied in the shadow's stat block.
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    Default Re: Shadowdancer: the Rogue of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I am now slightly upset, as I forgot about that subclass, and have been trying to make this separate from existing material. Still, I'm going to let Dance of Shade be used more often, in order to bring it closer in power to this.

    Any suggestions on how to differentiate Shadow Jump from the Way of Shadow's Shadow Step?
    Honestly? I think you could make Shadowdancer a variant for Way of Shadows. Replace their spellcasting abilities with some of these. Some time ago I made a slightly less magical variant for Way of Shadows more in line with the Ninja part. That way you wouldn't have to differentiate Shadow Jump from Shadow Step at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    It's implied in the shadow's stat block.
    In the actual shadow's stat block? Where?

    Or did you mean the part you crossed over? That I didn't notice, which is weird because I used my browser's Search Function to find any mentions of Strength, and for some reason that slipped past my search. Or should I say it was like a shadow just behind the corner of my eye?
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2018-12-11 at 02:26 PM.
    My 5th Edition D&D Homebrew:
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    the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

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    Default Re: Shadowdancer: the Rogue of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Honestly? I think you could make Shadowdancer a variant for Way of Shadows. Replace their spellcasting abilities with some of these. Some time ago I made a slightly less magical variant for Way of Shadows more in line with the Ninja part. That way you wouldn't have to differentiate Shadow Jump from Shadow Step at all.
    Honestly, I'd rather modify this shadowdancer to be more distinct than make it a rewrite of the Way of Shadows.

    What if I dropped Shadow Jump entirely, and granted an ability where your shadow(s) grant more utility? Take away the shadow's sunlight weakness and give it some kind of bonus to intimidation and sleight of hand?

    Dark Specter
    Beggining at 9th level, your shadow has grown in power, even in sunlight. It no longer has disadvantage on attack rolls, ability checks, or saving throws as a result of its sunlight weakness. Additionally, when your shadow uses the help action to aid another creature and they make a check using either intimidation or sleight of hand, they can add the shadow's Dexterity modifier in addition to the normal effects of the help action.

    I fully admit that's ripped off of your thug subclass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    In the actual shadow's stat block? Where?

    Or did you mean the part you crossed over? That I didn't notice, which is weird because I used my browser's Search Function to find any mentions of Strength, and for some reason that slipped past my search. Or should I say it was like a shadow just behind the corner of my eye?
    Yes; shadows use Dexterity for their attack rolls, and I initially listed Strength instead.
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    Default Re: Shadowdancer: the Rogue of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Honestly, I'd rather modify this shadowdancer to be more distinct than make it a rewrite of the Way of Shadows.

    What if I dropped Shadow Jump entirely, and granted an ability where your shadow(s) grant more utility? Take away the shadow's sunlight weakness and give it some kind of bonus to intimidation and sleight of hand?

    Dark Specter
    Beggining at 9th level, your shadow has grown in power, even in sunlight. It no longer has disadvantage on attack rolls, ability checks, or saving throws as a result of its sunlight weakness. Additionally, when your shadow uses the help action to aid another creature and they make a check using either intimidation or sleight of hand, they can add the shadow's Dexterity modifier in addition to the normal effects of the help action.

    I fully admit that's ripped off of your thug subclass.
    Be my guest and rip off more if you like. You've deserved it :P

    Aaaanyway, I feel that removing the "shadowdancing" from a Shadowdancer is a bit counterintuitive.

    If you want to keep it a Rogue Subclass, you could just as well keep them in-line with each other. I'm AFB, but they came at the same-ish levels, right?
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2018-12-12 at 01:36 AM.
    My 5th Edition D&D Homebrew:
    Note: Blue text written in italics implies lighthearted sarcasm. Don't take it seriously.


    sarcasm
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    noun
    the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

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    Default Re: Shadowdancer: the Rogue of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Aaaanyway, I feel that removing the "shadowdancing" from a Shadowdancer is a bit counterintuitive.
    I mean, you are now dancing with literal shadows.

    What might work better? A special "dance" that grants strong bonuses similarly to the College of Satire's tumble?

    If you want to keep it a Rogue Subclass, you could just as well keep them in-line with each other. I'm AFB, but they came at the same-ish levels, right?[/QUOTE]

    Sort of; the rogue gets subclass features slightly later than the monk.
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    Default Re: Shadowdancer: the Rogue of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I mean, you are now dancing with literal shadows.

    What might work better? A special "dance" that grants strong bonuses similarly to the College of Satire's tumble?
    As I've been playing 3.5 and pathfinder in a combination for over a decade, to me it has always seemed that Shadowdancer's name refers to their ability to teleport from a shadow to another. Having a shadow as a companion is certainly another iconic thing to them. The 3.5 version of Shadowdancer is rather weak and also quite boring. I'd suggest to take a look at the Pathfinder's version for more inspiration. Maybe there's something that could be used as a guideline.

    (If you're wondering what that page is, it's Pathfinder's official SRD.)
    My 5th Edition D&D Homebrew:
    Note: Blue text written in italics implies lighthearted sarcasm. Don't take it seriously.


    sarcasm
    /ˈsɑːkaz(ə)m/
    noun
    the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!

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    Default Re: Shadowdancer: the Rogue of Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    As I've been playing 3.5 and pathfinder in a combination for over a decade, to me it has always seemed that Shadowdancer's name refers to their ability to teleport from a shadow to another. Having a shadow as a companion is certainly another iconic thing to them. The 3.5 version of Shadowdancer is rather weak and also quite boring. I'd suggest to take a look at the Pathfinder's version for more inspiration. Maybe there's something that could be used as a guideline.

    (If you're wondering what that page is, it's Pathfinder's official SRD.)
    I've started playing tabletop role playing games far more recently, and haven't gotten to pathfinder yet. At the very least, the fluff on that page is very helpful. I guess I'll leave Shadow Jump alone, although I'm still not entirely happy with how close this is to the Way of Shadow.
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