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  1. - Top - End - #721
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    I'm in the very early (read: brainstorming) stages of developing a roguelike, and I have the capstone ability for exactly one class. The class is called the "reaper" and the capstone ability is (tentatively) called "Death's Bounty" even though that name doesn't quite fit with what the ability does.

    Spoiler: Death's Bounty
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    Deals damage to one target equal to a random* amount between half their current hitpoints, rounded down, and half their maximum hitpoints, rounded up.

    *equal chance for any amount of damage within that range; I believe this distribution is called "linear."


    I'd like ideas for capstone-abilities for other classes. They should be roughly equivalent in power to Death's Bounty.
    Interesting. So it's an instant kill on almost anything with 33% HP or less.

    Not sure what the specifics are to your roguelike, but you could do something like these:

    • Taking lethal damage first has you make an attack against the target. If it kills the target, you gain HP equal to the number of excessive damage you dealt over the target's HP. Then you take damage from the target's attack as normal.
    • When you slay a target, you convert their soul into a ghost. It is hostile to all creatures that are not you, and you can see creatures adjacent to it. You can attack a ghost to instantly kill it and gain its HP as your own.
    • If you have less than 50% HP, you have a 50% chance to automatically dodge an attack and deal 50% more damage. Otherwise, your attacks have 50% lifesteal.
    • If you hit a creature with a ranged attack, you can teleport to that creature and make an extra attack against them. This extra attack is a critical hit. This ability only has a cooldown if you kill a creature with it.


    The idea of them is to incentivize reckless behavior. Roguelike players love to play it safe, and having abilities that actually allow you to play recklessly will create multiple different ways of playing. Do you play it slow and safe, or do you rush ahead and use your reckless features to their full potential?
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2019-05-08 at 01:29 PM.
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    5th Edition Homebrewery

    Prestige Options, changing primary attributes while maintaining balance with default options.
    Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
    Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
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  2. - Top - End - #722
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    enderlord99's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Interesting. So it's an instant kill on almost anything with 33% HP or less.
    Usually, but not guaranteed. I calculate that it would give a roughly 50% kill-chance at that point: anywhere from 1/6 of its max (which won't kill) to 50% of its max (which will be overkill by 1/6 of its max)
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    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
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  3. - Top - End - #723
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Finally getting around to working on the last few things Dodgeroll released with A Farewell to Arms. The Rainbow Run concept is awesome, letting you tailor your run and just have fun without worrying about if you'll get good items. It's just high octane bullet shoot-y fun.

  4. - Top - End - #724
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Finally getting around to working on the last few things Dodgeroll released with A Farewell to Arms. The Rainbow Run concept is awesome, letting you tailor your run and just have fun without worrying about if you'll get good items. It's just high octane bullet shoot-y fun.
    I've been having a lot of fun trying to unlock the Gunslinger. Managed to beat the Lich with the Paradox once so far, and my attempt with the Gunslinger was going well until I ate too much Spice and got the reaper dude following me from room to room. That proved a bit too difficult and i got dropped facing the High Dragun.

    I still have no idea how you're supposed to beat the Rat though. The only way I've come close is by getting Clone and going down on the second life, but even then he's incredibly hard.

  5. - Top - End - #725
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    Usually, but not guaranteed. I calculate that it would give a roughly 50% kill-chance at that point: anywhere from 1/6 of its max (which won't kill) to 50% of its max (which will be overkill by 1/6 of its max)
    It seems a bit underwhelming for a capstone ability. In general abilities that require you to almost kill the enemy before they go into effect are pretty bad. If I can get the enemy low without the ability, how much is it really helping me?

    It might be good if there are enemies that get stronger on low HP but that's about the only use I see for it.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2019-05-09 at 05:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    It seems a bit underwhelming for a capstone ability. In general abilities that require you to almost kill the enemy before they go into effect are pretty bad. If I can get the enemy low without the ability, how much is it really helping me?

    It might be good if there are enemies that get stronger on low HP but that's about the only use I see for it.
    ...

    You might want to reread the ability. If your target is at full health, it always cuts their HP in half; if they aren't, it cuts their remaining HP in half and then some.

    I was under the impression that Nature's Madness was a really good move in Pokemon (which, admittedly, isn't a roguelike) and this is strictly better.

    It also 3-shots things more often than not.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2019-05-09 at 06:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
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    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

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  7. - Top - End - #727
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    ...

    You might want to reread the ability. If your target is at full health, it always cuts their HP in half; if they aren't, it cuts their remaining HP in half and then some.

    I was under the impression that Nature's Madness was a really good move in Pokemon (which, admittedly, isn't a roguelike) and this is strictly better.

    It also 3-shots things more often than not.
    I guess so. To be honest I skimmed it, but I had originally read it as an ability that did more damage the more hp the enemy was missing starting at 0.

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    enderlord99's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I guess so. To be honest I skimmed it, but I had originally read it as an ability that did more damage the more hp the enemy was missing starting at 0.
    I'm confused how anyone could get that impression, no matter how fast they were reading it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    I wish it was possible to upvote here.

    I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm.
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  9. - Top - End - #729
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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I've been having a lot of fun trying to unlock the Gunslinger. Managed to beat the Lich with the Paradox once so far, and my attempt with the Gunslinger was going well until I ate too much Spice and got the reaper dude following me from room to room. That proved a bit too difficult and i got dropped facing the High Dragun.

    I still have no idea how you're supposed to beat the Rat though. The only way I've come close is by getting Clone and going down on the second life, but even then he's incredibly hard.
    Yeah, I've beat the first form and got close to the second on the Rat but man. The second form is so tanky. I took him on with some really powerful runs with Gundromeda Strain and even then he kicked my butt in.

    Working on the Gunslinger myself. Eager to see what Dodgeroll does next as well honestly. Gungeon's given and continues to give me a ton of gameplay and I can only imagine what Dodgeroll's got coming next.

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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    I'm confused how anyone could get that impression, no matter how fast they were reading it.
    Well, that's why you told other people about it - to see how intuitive it actually is to people who haven't come up with it in the first place and might be your players.

    It's super confusing, and not at all exciting, and it has this strange random element to it. If it was called "Executioner" and calculable such that you could be certain it's an instant kill against reasonably low HP opponent's, it would have a better feel.
    This signature is boring. The stuff I write might not be. Warning: Ponies.

  11. - Top - End - #731
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    I'm confused how anyone could get that impression, no matter how fast they were reading it.
    Probably because it's a random math problem and it's a subject I honestly don't care that much about, so rather than even attempting to process the formula you posted I skimmed what you wrote, looked at the other comments about it, and made an assumption based on that. My bad.

    If I had to give actual constructive feedback I would say don't make your players do math problems to decide if they want a skill. Just give them a little blurb about what it does and hide the math behind the scenes. Maybe make it available for people that really want it but not necessary to understand what's going on.

  12. - Top - End - #732
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    If I had to give actual constructive feedback I would say don't make your players do math problems to decide if they want a skill. Just give them a little blurb about what it does and hide the math behind the scenes. Maybe make it available for people that really want it but not necessary to understand what's going on.
    .. but it's a legitimate problem though, isn't it? Because the opposite is also true: If a capstone skill is advertised as 'grahhh - enormous damage' - and you somehow feel like it's being oversold, often you want to be able to check for yourself how much damage. Is 'enormous damage' 100, or 1000, or .. 10000000?!

    But yea, if I wanted to do maths, I'd be building rockets, not playing videogames =)

  13. - Top - End - #733
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    Yeah, I've beat the first form and got close to the second on the Rat but man. The second form is so tanky. I took him on with some really powerful runs with Gundromeda Strain and even then he kicked my butt in.

    Working on the Gunslinger myself. Eager to see what Dodgeroll does next as well honestly. Gungeon's given and continues to give me a ton of gameplay and I can only imagine what Dodgeroll's got coming next.
    While I'm definitely curious, I am sort of hedging my bets a bit. Gungeon became an excellent game after several years of continuous updates and free DLC releases. The initial release was pretty meh, due to a general lack of variety and having most of the guns suck. The best thing Dodgeroll have done is not give up on the game, and it just shows what a company can do if they take on board customer feedback and address the problems with their game. Synergies is the system that really took it over the top for me, since it means you can get a Pea Shooter and turn it into a cannon of death with the right support items.

    Still no saving the water cannon weapons though.

  14. - Top - End - #734
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    I got Gungeon on release and loved it from the word go. The updates certainly helped but I honestly feel like the game's a bit easy now on the general gameplay and the extra extra content is...absurd honestly. Getting to the Dragun isn't that hard for me even on runs that would normally be hard fought. But almost none of the runs are good enough to get to the Lich consistently. The synergies helped a lot and the updates added some variety and flair with enemies and whatnot for sure though.

    The water weapons are all pretty meh though, any beam weapon that just pushes sorta is unless you're in the right situation. Dodgeroll made, imho, a good game great. I don't know if they'll do it again but I'm looking forward all the same.

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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Feels weird doing a lot of the thread's posting of late, but I do like having a place to talk.
    ToME:
    finished my playthrough as a Wyrmic (dwarf). Wyrmic seemed like a decent class on the whole to me; though definitely with its weaknesses in gap closers. But good passives, and excellent AoE. Died at the end to the final bosses, but was otherwise clearing most stuff quite readily in the var'eyal zones. Was running out of decent uses for class talent points near the end.
    I tried having really good saves for fun; and they were fairly helpful, though it's hard to measure, and more stuff got through than I would've liked even with high saves. Of course near the end so many enemies just get enough stat bonuses on nightmare that saves are'nt enough. I think if I were on normal the saves would've held up fine.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-Point-system

  16. - Top - End - #736
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    I always liked Wyrmic in concept, but I think they feel a tad on the weak side in actual play. Though they have access to a lot of AoE, most of it seems to do relatively little damage once you get to later zones. It is one of the classes scheduled for a major rework next patch, so I've decided to take a break with them until the new version comes out.

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    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    I found that the aoe did plentiful damage, though it rather depends on build. The breath attacks aoe might be a bit insufficient; but the attacks that go off weapon damage are great. Wing buffet was my primary attack throughout the entire game. Good AoE, with a 2-hander and the weapon mastery it gives excellent damage. Late game I took the prodigies for +str and willpower to weapon damage. The attack would do around 1000 to the area, which is enough to clear stuff out pretty well.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-Point-system

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