Page 7 of 25 FirstFirst 1234567891011121314151617 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 210 of 737
  1. - Top - End - #181
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2007

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    I know how my healer is going to die now. He'll starve to death. Simple as that. There is still food in my inventory, but less than I burn walking to Terinyo - the only reliable source of food - and even with strength 24, I can only carry less than it takes to walk back. So since the game provides me with less than sustainable food supply - that's how this one dies.
    Only reliable source of food? Did they remove the ratling traders at the Arena? Or herbs?

  2. - Top - End - #182
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Denmark
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    Only reliable source of food? Did they remove the ratling traders at the Arena? Or herbs?
    I have a ton of herbs - precisely one was stomafilia. And I'm much further from the ratling traders than I am from Terinyo. Cooked lizard has the advantage of much lower weight than large rations, but at the cost of similarly lower satiation value.

    Let me fill you in: After getting to the second level of the dwarven halls, and killing an ancient blue dragon incidentally, I figured I'd go back to Terinyo on an errand. I want to shift my alignment to lawful, and there's that quest to kill Hotzenplotz, and the amulet it awards.

    So on my way up, I passed your ratling traders, and bought 20 cooked lizards. At that point, I had plenty of food. 1 stomafilia, a couple of rations, a couple of dwarven sausages, plus ... like a cookie and an apple, or some such. Ok? Tons of food, by any measure.

    Went up, went to HMV, sold a bit of stuff, picked up a single food item - I think there was an iron ration just lying around.

    Ran out of food on my way to Terinyo. Bought there, was entirely out around the pyramid.

    I would not have reached the ratlings alive, so I popped into ... the sinister dungeon, I think. Where I am now. Hungry, out of food, about to die.

  3. - Top - End - #183
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2007

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    I usually buy all the lizards they can sell if I'm playing a troll, for a point of comparison. Or until Strained, maybe. Also depends on how high your Food Preservation skill is, to balance it out and not always eat off of your stash.

    Also, regarding herbs, when you encounter a patch of them and if you're playing a troll, you should "ideally" tailor them to the squares where at least one should produce stomafillia. You could look up the mechanics for that, if you like. It follows the rules of Conway's Game of Life, to tell you nothing with a few words.
    Last edited by Cespenar; 2019-01-13 at 02:56 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #184
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Denmark
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    I usually buy all the lizards they can sell if I'm playing a troll, for a point of comparison. Or until Strained, maybe. Also depends on how high your Food Preservation skill is, to balance it out and not always eat off of your stash.

    Also, regarding herbs, when you encounter a patch of them and if you're playing a troll, you should "ideally" tailor them to the squares where at least one should produce stomafillia. You could look up the mechanics for that, if you like. It follows the rules of Conway's Game of Life, to tell you nothing with a few words.
    I think the ratling in question had ... just under 6000 of them. I could buy all of them, but not carry them.

    Oh I know in principle I should fiddle with the herb patches to fit some sort of pattern, but .. well, that's an entirely different discussion: When does gameplay become too artificial? I find myself unwilling to tailer the way I play a game to a pattern developed to simulate life in binary. Isn't that more or less how it was? It was something along those lines, I seem to remember.

  5. - Top - End - #185
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Silfir's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Esslingen, Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    Even with strength 24, I can only carry less than it takes to walk back.
    Well, that seems pretty much impossible. You can carry like twenty rations with that much Strength.

    Being Burdened or higher increases food consumption, though that doesn't really matter as long as it's from carrying food. Make sure that you have enough space in your inventory for it.

    You might want to skip ahead to the Caverns of Chaos, they sell better food over there. Herbalism also helps - there is a type of herb that makes for excellent food.

    EDIT: Whoopsie, missed a bunch of posts.

    Farming herbs reliably is as easy as pruning them to make 2x2 patches, or three-patch L-shapes which grow into 2x2 patches. They'll infinitely restock, and if you overpick one of the 2x2 it will fill back in.

    The rate of food consumption you describe seems completely out of whack. Are you possibly wearing a cloak of invisibility, or a cursed amulet of hunger?
    Last edited by Silfir; 2019-01-13 at 06:17 PM.
    This signature is boring. The stuff I write might not be. Warning: Ponies.

  6. - Top - End - #186
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    When I run into hunger problems from wearing artifacts I sometimes also buy the fried bats. Trolls, I think, can actually find cooked roaches edible, but everything else is trash.

    That said, I still find to have hunger problems this peculiar to be a little out of whack, even for a troll. I wouldn't get this hungry until well after all of the dwarven mystic quests...
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Mordekaiser for president.

  7. - Top - End - #187
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Denmark
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    You can carry like twenty rations with that much Strength.
    Sure, if I'm walking around naked. But with my nice crystal chain mail, and Big Punch, that's not the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    Are you possibly wearing a cloak of invisibility
    Yes. I found out yesterday that it increases food consumption, I didn't know.

  8. - Top - End - #188
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Secret Lair on Sol c
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Big punch is so heavy that its just about useless, unless you have a truely giant strength score (30+ id say) or permanent strength of atlas, and really should be stored in your stash

  9. - Top - End - #189
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2018

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    The classic way to "cheat" a Roguelike is just to back up your save in a different folder. Is that not possible with ADOM?
    (Full disclosure: ADOM is paying my bills.)

    There's a version on Steam and GOG featuring a "soft mode" that allows unlimited saves. Hint hint, nudge nudge.


    Did you guys know we're working on a sequel? ;)

  10. - Top - End - #190
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2007

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    I think the ratling in question had ... just under 6000 of them. I could buy all of them, but not carry them.

    Oh I know in principle I should fiddle with the herb patches to fit some sort of pattern, but .. well, that's an entirely different discussion: When does gameplay become too artificial? I find myself unwilling to tailer the way I play a game to a pattern developed to simulate life in binary. Isn't that more or less how it was? It was something along those lines, I seem to remember.
    Buy until Burdened or Strained then. Still, barring something really outrageously extreme, you should have no problem with hunger after encountering the ratlings.

    Also, as said above, you might try stashing Big Punch until your str gets high and do some general weight optimization as well. Replace all heavy food with lizards, stash your books, keep only about 20 rocks for throwing, only 0-1 fallback armor and 1-2 weapons, etc.

    Regarding herbs, I'm somewhat with you on that one. I usually do the least amount of fiddling with it to get a batch of morgia root and moss of mareilon, and that's it. Any more and it starts to get boring. But the system is there, if you want.

  11. - Top - End - #191
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Denmark
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    Big punch is so heavy that its just about useless, unless you have a truely giant strength score (30+ id say) or permanent strength of atlas, and really should be stored in your stash
    The armor weighs more though. I think? Isn't BP 600, and crystal chain mail is 640. I could look it up to be sure, but I'm too lazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by VexingVision View Post
    (Full disclosure: ADOM is paying my bills.)

    There's a version on Steam and GOG featuring a "soft mode" that allows unlimited saves. Hint hint, nudge nudge.

    Did you guys know we're working on a sequel? ;)
    Have the steam version already. Not for the saves, but for the freedom to build the character I want :p

    Didn't know about the sequel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    Buy until Burdened or Strained then. Still, barring something really outrageously extreme, you should have no problem with hunger after encountering the ratlings.

    Also, as said above, you might try stashing Big Punch until your str gets high and do some general weight optimization as well. Replace all heavy food with lizards, stash your books, keep only about 20 rocks for throwing, only 0-1 fallback armor and 1-2 weapons, etc.

    Regarding herbs, I'm somewhat with you on that one. I usually do the least amount of fiddling with it to get a batch of morgia root and moss of mareilon, and that's it. Any more and it starts to get boring. But the system is there, if you want.
    I bought until strained. Maybe this isn't entirely clear, but I'm not an idiot. But as a very hungry troll, wearing a cloak of invisibility, more than half those lizards are gone before I'm out of CoC. Now, I could carry a lot more lizards if my armor and weapon weighed less, and they'd last longer without the cloak.

    I do realize BP is too heavy. But it's also 5x the damage of any alternative I have. So it's not like I equipped it blind, thinking everything would be honky-friggin-dory. Melee damage is a constant problem, and even with BP, I did not have enough damage to proceed below DT, which is why I went back out.

  12. - Top - End - #192
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Silfir's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Esslingen, Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Big Punch is probably not too heavy, all things told. Melee damage is important enough that it justifies an investment in terms of weight. (Goes double for you, since you always seem to feel like you're not doing enough damage in melee - makes sense to prioritize the things that mesh well with how you play!) Granted, once you combine it with crystal chain mail that's a big chunk of your carrying capacity gone. You may have to prune your inventory aggressively. When it comes down to it, 4 PV on your character is probably not that significant - you may want to swap the crystal chain mail for the ancient mummy wrappings, or something else much lighter. (Or did you beat Rehetep in a different game? Memory is getting fuzzy, I haven't slept in a while.) Basically, between the chain mail and Big Punch, unless you found a similarly excellent weapon randomly somewhere, go with Big Punch.

    There are always two cooked lizard merchants in the Arena - make sure to buy both of them out. You may even want to spend some time on the level (reading books?) so they can restock. Fried Bat merchants will do in a pinch, though filling up on those can be a bit annoying.

    Feels kinda nice to have called it re: cloak of invisibility.
    Last edited by Silfir; 2019-01-14 at 07:11 AM.
    This signature is boring. The stuff I write might not be. Warning: Ponies.

  13. - Top - End - #193
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2007

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    I bought until strained. Maybe this isn't entirely clear, but I'm not an idiot. But as a very hungry troll, wearing a cloak of invisibility, more than half those lizards are gone before I'm out of CoC. Now, I could carry a lot more lizards if my armor and weapon weighed less, and they'd last longer without the cloak.

    I do realize BP is too heavy. But it's also 5x the damage of any alternative I have. So it's not like I equipped it blind, thinking everything would be honky-friggin-dory. Melee damage is a constant problem, and even with BP, I did not have enough damage to proceed below DT, which is why I went back out.
    It's not a matter of idiocy at all (obviously), but it's really hard to gauge someone else's "ADOM Lore" over the interwebs, especially given how complex the game is.

    Anywho, I'd remove the cloak and only equip it on hard fights. Also, I can understand if Big Punch is miles ahead of your other stuff, but you could still optimize the rest of your inventory.

    Also, the above suggestion of swapping the crystal chain for mummy wrappings is a solid one as well.

  14. - Top - End - #194
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Denmark
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    Big Punch is probably not too heavy, all things told. Melee damage is important enough that it justifies an investment in terms of weight. (Goes double for you, since you always seem to feel like you're not doing enough damage in melee - makes sense to prioritize the things that mesh well with how you play!) Granted, once you combine it with crystal chain mail that's a big chunk of your carrying capacity gone. You may have to prune your inventory aggressively. When it comes down to it, 4 PV on your character is probably not that significant - you may want to swap the crystal chain mail for the ancient mummy wrappings, or something else much lighter. (Or did you beat Rehetep in a different game? Memory is getting fuzzy, I haven't slept in a while.) Basically, between the chain mail and Big Punch, unless you found a similarly excellent weapon randomly somewhere, go with Big Punch.

    There are always two cooked lizard merchants in the Arena - make sure to buy both of them out. You may even want to spend some time on the level (reading books?) so they can restock. Fried Bat merchants will do in a pinch, though filling up on those can be a bit annoying.

    Feels kinda nice to have called it re: cloak of invisibility.
    Yes - good catch on the cloak.

    Walking around below DT, I found plenty of food - I only left because it was a massive drain on other ressources. It took most of my want charges to down the dragon, for instance. Not enough melee damage, unsurprisingly, so it had to be magic. But with lots of food down there, I didn't notice the massive drain until later. It was also where I found the cloak, obviously. So putting 2 and 2 together took a little while.

    With regards to pruning my inventory - I do try. But I don't carry much that doesn't make sense. A few rocks that I'm not good enough at throwing. Scrolls, potions and wands that weigh basically nothing. It's not like I have a spare armor and Slightly Smaller Punch in my backpack, also. I do have a spare large shield, because eventually, I'll have to go past all those bloody trees again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    It's not a matter of idiocy at all (obviously), but it's really hard to gauge someone else's "ADOM Lore" over the interwebs, especially given how complex the game is.

    Anywho, I'd remove the cloak and only equip it on hard fights. Also, I can understand if Big Punch is miles ahead of your other stuff, but you could still optimize the rest of your inventory.

    Also, the above suggestion of swapping the crystal chain for mummy wrappings is a solid one as well.
    Agreed on the idiocy. It's like IT support, right? Sooner or later, you're going to have to ask the caller whether they're actually, 100% sure the machine is turned on, and connected to the internet. Hence the Cloak of Invisibility: I didn't know it drained satiation, and wouldn't have dreamed how much if I did.

    I can cast Invisibility, even. I don't need the cloak for hard fights, but I might use it for exploring dangerous levels - where it might be awkward if the spell wears off suddenly =)

  15. - Top - End - #195
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Big Punch is at least a guaranteed weapon for people who go into the Basher talent line, which is among the better offensive talent lines [I tend to invest into TH > Speed >= PV > DV talents though].

    EDIT: While skimming Ancardia wikia, I noticed Silfir brought the concept of 4X-style Succession Games to the Adom community at large, and I just remembered that back in the days [also around 2009], I somewhat independently [without knowing of Silfir's idea, inspired by Civilization 4 succession games] brought the same concept to life on the now defunct Polish rogalikator forum, and I think we even had a gate closer in the two times we ran the event. Small world and all.
    Last edited by Winthur; 2019-01-14 at 11:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Mordekaiser for president.

  16. - Top - End - #196
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Denmark
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    Big Punch is at least a guaranteed weapon for people who go into the Basher talent line, which is among the better offensive talent lines [I tend to invest into TH > Speed >= PV > DV talents though].

    EDIT: While skimming Ancardia wikia, I noticed Silfir brought the concept of 4X-style Succession Games to the Adom community at large, and I just remembered that back in the days [also around 2009], I somewhat independently [without knowing of Silfir's idea, inspired by Civilization 4 succession games] brought the same concept to life on the now defunct Polish rogalikator forum, and I think we even had a gate closer in the two times we ran the event. Small world and all.
    I always figured running a MMO in the style of ASCII style rogue-likes would be intriguing. Always with the core idea of having a ranking, and a specific, unique artifact handed to the player at the top.

    Obviously, with enough players the ASCII graphics become an issue. Although I see ways around that.

  17. - Top - End - #197
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    trying out adom after having read this thread; the complexity is nice, but there's a lot of interface nuisances which just seem unnecessary and which could've been made more intuitive.
    like having to drop items in a merchant shop to sell them; it shouldn't have been hard to make a more obvious way than that. reading a manual should be something that helps, not something that's necessary because the interface is poorly explained. the world has come a long way in interface design after all.

    another thing that was bugging me: constant interruptions. I was in Terinyo, just trying to heal up because I don't have any way to heal other than waiting around. and it interrupts me constantly because some villager walks next to me. so I have to manually click through the healing process a whole bunch of times. that's just something that could be run more smoothly.

    and it took me quite awhile, and googling it multiple times, to figure out how to light a torch.

    it feels like the game is more about fighting the interface at this point, and many things are a struggle to just get it to do straightforward things. and I've seen plenty of flash/unity games with interfaces that're easier to use, so it's not like it's just a result of lower production values or something.

    gonna try the game somewhat more to see how it all shakes out.
    Last edited by zlefin; 2019-01-15 at 10:44 PM.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-Point-system

  18. - Top - End - #198
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Secret Lair on Sol c
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by zlefin View Post
    it feels like the game is more about fighting the interface at this point, and many things are a struggle to just get it to do straightforward things. and I've seen plenty of flash/unity games with interfaces that're easier to use, so it's not like it's just a result of lower production values or something.
    a fair share of it comes from the fact that the genre doesn't traditionally have all that much handholding (and a lot of assumed knowledge about how such games work, such as how to use the shops and the like), and that it's largely written, and with the mind that it should be able to run on a potato.

    I'm not saying your wrong through, Interface is the weakest point, but rather to acknowledge why it is as such, and that it's a genre wide problem
    Last edited by Sian; 2019-01-16 at 02:52 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #199
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2007

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    It helps to contextualize when you know the crux of the game was released in 1994 for a few megabytes by one person.

    So it's mainly about what the game can do, rather than what it can't.
    Last edited by Cespenar; 2019-01-16 at 05:35 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #200
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Caelestion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Baator (aka Britain)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    The only rogue-like I ever played any significant amount of was Angband: The Pits of Moria in the mid-90s and then again in the mid-00s. I wonder how it's doing these days.

  21. - Top - End - #201
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    It helps to contextualize when you know the crux of the game was released in 1994 for a few megabytes by one person.

    So it's mainly about what the game can do, rather than what it can't.
    Does it really though? Considering they're still monetizing it 25 years later, I don't think it's out of line to expect some improvements in that same time frame. It still very much plays like a product of its time.

    I'll also agree that the interface in ADoM is particularly unintuitive and annoying even among roguelikes. It's the main reason I have hundreds of hours in games like DCSS or ToME but less than a dozen in ADoM.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2019-01-16 at 08:25 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #202
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Denmark
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Does it really though? Considering they're still monetizing it 25 years later, I don't think it's out of line to expect some improvements in that same time frame. It still very much plays like a product of its time.

    I'll also agree that the interface in ADoM is particularly unintuitive and annoying even among roguelikes. It's the main reason I have hundreds of hours in games like DCSS or ToME but less than a dozen in ADoM.
    No no ... they started monetizing it fairly recently. You can still get the game for free, but if you want the full package - which still has the quirks you mention, as well as frequent updates, a save game function, and so on - then you'll need to pay.

    I'll freely admit the interface takes some getting used to. I won't go so far as to call it a problem. D to drop things - sell them in a shop. ! to dip your scroll of identify in a potion of holy water. Equip a torch, U to use flint'n'steel. It is, after all, not rocket science. But it has an immense number of commands, and they can't all just be .. whatever.

    But occasonally there are things you have to look up. For instance, I've read that you can examine doors to try and spot runes or traps or the like. I still have not figured out how to do that.

  23. - Top - End - #203
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    a fair share of it comes from the fact that the genre doesn't traditionally have all that much handholding (and a lot of assumed knowledge about how such games work, such as how to use the shops and the like), and that it's largely written, and with the mind that it should be able to run on a potato.

    I'm not saying your wrong through, Interface is the weakest point, but rather to acknowledge why it is as such, and that it's a genre wide problem
    It doesn't seem so genre-wide to me; more likely it's a product of being a legacy system that hasn't made efforts to update its user interface, in part because there's always the basic problem that updating/improving the interface, while it makes it better for new users and better in general, requires some re-learning on the part of long-time users. but also in part because where improvements are focused depends on the predilection and talents of the developers.


    I've played other roguelikes in the past, and they had much more intuitive interfaces with far fewer problems. like I was playing a new one being developed with Unity called Rogue Fable 3 recently. there were a few oddities (in part because it was literally in beta, those issues are getting fixed steadily) but it ran pretty smooth on the whole.
    Last edited by zlefin; 2019-01-16 at 09:34 AM.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-Point-system

  24. - Top - End - #204
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Rynjin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    But occasonally there are things you have to look up. For instance, I've read that you can examine doors to try and spot runes or traps or the like. I still have not figured out how to do that.
    I'm pretty sure you have to use the Detect Traps skill for that.

    Then again, I've played characters with it and have still never detected a trap beforehand, so *shrugs*

  25. - Top - End - #205
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Denmark
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    I'm pretty sure you have to use the Detect Traps skill for that.

    Then again, I've played characters with it and have still never detected a trap beforehand, so *shrugs*
    Ahh - see, that makes sense =D

    Now that you mention it, I knew there was a skill for it. I just never played a character that had that skill (I think - or I entirely ignored it).

  26. - Top - End - #206
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Silfir's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Esslingen, Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Detect Traps works either in conjunction with the 's'earch command (generally you want to do 'ws' searches) or 'a'pplied directly. If your skill is low, you should probably examine multiple times to be sure.

    The Alertness skill, incidentally, is used to spontaneously discover traps before you trigger them, or evade them after you trigger them. Detect Traps only helps if you specifically look for something.



    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Does it really though? Considering they're still monetizing it 25 years later, I don't think it's out of line to expect some improvements in that same time frame. It still very much plays like a product of its time.
    ADOM has made huge efforts to improve the usability of the interface, actually! There are mouse controls, so you can move around by clicking, and you can right-click on things and you'll get a list of commands that are applicable in those situations. The Return key also displays a list of useful commands - that was added a couple of years ago. Nowadays, whenever you play, you keep getting hints about useful commands for whatever situation you are in as well.

    You absolutely cannot make an informed argument that no effort has been put in. Ultimately, the game is fundamentally designed around the current control scheme; you can't fix it without completely rebuilding it from ground up. Which is pretty much what Thomas is doing at this very moment: Ultimate ADOM, the planned reboot/sequel.
    Last edited by Silfir; 2019-01-16 at 05:21 PM.
    This signature is boring. The stuff I write might not be. Warning: Ponies.

  27. - Top - End - #207
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kato's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    So... This is the ADOM thread now, do I get that right?

    After I actually started getting better I invested more time in Gungeon. I'm still not 'good' but less bad. Maybe I should play less but when I'm more focused. My reaction time might be a bit better then.
    "What's done is done."

    Pony Avatar thanks to Elemental

  28. - Top - End - #208
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    Detect Traps works either in conjunction with the 's'earch command (generally you want to do 'ws' searches) or 'a'pplied directly. If your skill is low, you should probably examine multiple times to be sure.

    The Alertness skill, incidentally, is used to spontaneously discover traps before you trigger them, or evade them after you trigger them. Detect Traps only helps if you specifically look for something.





    ADOM has made huge efforts to improve the usability of the interface, actually! There are mouse controls, so you can move around by clicking, and you can right-click on things and you'll get a list of commands that are applicable in those situations. The Return key also displays a list of useful commands - that was added a couple of years ago. Nowadays, whenever you play, you keep getting hints about useful commands for whatever situation you are in as well.

    You absolutely cannot make an informed argument that no effort has been put in. Ultimately, the game is fundamentally designed around the current control scheme; you can't fix it without completely rebuilding it from ground up. Which is pretty much what Thomas is doing at this very moment: Ultimate ADOM, the planned reboot/sequel.
    I won't argue that no effort has been put into fixing it, but I absolutely can and will argue that very little effort has been made. Mostly because people who have been playing the game for 20 years probably don't want to change at this point. There are a billion things that could be streamlined in the game that haven't been. Presumably because the "difficulty" and learning curve is part of the "charm."

    To be clear, by "charm" I mean "us older players have suffered through this to learn the system, so newer players should have to as well."

  29. - Top - End - #209
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    To be clear, by "charm" I mean "us older players have suffered through this to learn the system, so newer players should have to as well."
    Personally, I prefer ADOM's interface much more to its contemporaries like Nethack, where a separate button for wielding weapons and wearing armor feels wholly unnecessary, and there are multiple other things that feel off. Nethack also seems to have a lot more interface-level mechanics that seem simply too fidgety when figuring them out - such as every single little bit of meta-info needed to maximize the use of Elbereth.

    That said, I don't think there's that many commands you have to use and remember to do the most basic things. Most of the game is about pressing the numpad to ram into monsters. It's pickupable with just a few minutes with the manual and just getting used to the interface by moving around a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    There are a billion things that could be streamlined in the game that haven't been. Presumably because the "difficulty" and learning curve is part of the "charm."
    As someone who is still extremely unused to the fact that I no longer can pick up items the lazy way by pressing ;, I concur with these people.

    Most of the manpower efforts seem to go into making the overall game experience richer (more dungeons, more ways to play) rather than dealing with interface hurdles because most classic ASCII roguelikes already assume you have the patience to figure out their interface, and many people already have these things memorized as muscle memory.
    Last edited by Winthur; 2019-01-17 at 01:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Mordekaiser for president.

  30. - Top - End - #210
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Denmark
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    To be clear, by "charm" I mean "us older players have suffered through this to learn the system, so newer players should have to as well."
    But .... look, Skyrim has the most atrociously bad UI I ever saw. It's just ... everything, from inventory to spell casting, to equipment swapping and weapon sets and .... everything.

    That's ... what is that, is that a Top 10 AAA title over the last 10 years? Something like that.

    I Skyrim can get away with glaring flaws, I'm reasonably sure it's a little petty to blame a game you can get for free for not being perfect.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •