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Thread: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
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2018-12-22, 08:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
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- six feet under
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Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
Non caerulea sum, Caerulea nomen meum est.
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she/her
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2018-12-22, 11:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Richmond, VA
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2018-12-23, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- Raleigh NC
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Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
Curious. What state or locale does your friend practice in, and what is their specialty? Criminal law, civil law, divorces? Something else entirely?
Also, while I note that some of the video was faked, the parts that are still reckoned genuine don't modify the understanding we have; NASA engineer had packages stolen, got no help from the police, devised an over-engineered and ingenious trap intended to humiliate the thieves without actually hurting them.
Respectfully,
Brian P."Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
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2018-12-23, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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- Bristol, UK
Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
My problem was and is that he made an enormous profit by doing it. Some of the video was faked, and he was caught on those, the rest he hasn't been caught on yet. This was an extremely expensive trick machine, there were four iphones in it, that's what $1200? more?
A real thief would have taken the thing to bits and sold the phones.
People will do all sorts of things for youtube fame and profits, remember that guy who thought a book was going to be bullet proof and died when it wasn't? he thought he was going to be rich and famous, also because of one video that he hoped would go viral. This quy was actually lucky, his did go viral, and now he's probably much richer than he was.Last edited by halfeye; 2018-12-23 at 12:39 PM.
The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.
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2018-12-23, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
Great Modthulhu:Just a reminder guys, but please try to avoid giving anything that might be construed as professional/legal advice, even if secondhand.
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2018-12-23, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
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2018-12-23, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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2018-12-23, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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- Bristol, UK
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2018-12-23, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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2018-12-23, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
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Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
Yeah, the apparatus seems a bit too "Black box" (yes, yes, it's actually a white box) for anyone to realise there are phones in there without thinking harder about it than most people would while covered in glitter and subjected to a repeated olfactory assault. The only giveaway that there are phones inside is the murder-hole design that accommodates the camera angles, which I genuinely don't know either way whether or not I'd notice under the circumstances. "They'd realise there are phones in there" might be giving these people too much credit.
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2018-12-23, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
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2019-01-06, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
Glorthindel, you may be thinking of the felony murder law that most (all?) states have adopted in some form, which allows soneone who commits a felony to be charged with murder if a person dies during the commission of the felony. Some states also have a voluntary manslaughter law that does the same if someone dies during the commission of a misdemeanor.
The classic example: If bank robber A kills a guard while robbing a bank, robbers B and C and getaway driver D can all potentially be charged with murder, not just A.
However, that is still subject to reasonableness based on the circumstances. A booby trap that was designed to harm someone would probably (IANAL) not be considered reasonable."That's a horrible idea! What time?"
T-Shirt given to me by a good friend.. "in fairness, I was unsupervised at the time".
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2019-01-07, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
That's generally covered by different laws, either conspiracy or accessory to the fact for B and C and conspiracy or accessory after the fact for getaway driver D. The felony murder law is more like "If a guard kills bank robber B while bank robbers A-C are robbing a bank, bank robbers A and C and getaway driver D can all be charged with the murder of bank robber B".
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2019-01-07, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2015
Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
That is true. However, it does not preclude the fact that it's also covered by the felony murder laws.
The felony murder law is more like "If a guard kills bank robber B while bank robbers A-C are robbing a bank, bank robbers A and C and getaway driver D can all be charged with the murder of bank robber B".
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2019-01-09, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
Yeah, conspiracy requires knowledge ahead of time, so if there was no pre-existing plan to kill the guard (A just panics), then the others technically* haven't committed conspiracy.
Accessory after the fact also requires knowledge, so D would have to know they killed the guard* before he drove away.
Felony murder doesn't have the knowledge requirement... edit - for the murder. There would still have to be some knowledge/participation in a felony.
*Talking about whether or not that actually committed the crime, not what a DA might charge them with or a jury believe.Last edited by tomandtish; 2019-01-09 at 02:49 PM.
"That's a horrible idea! What time?"
T-Shirt given to me by a good friend.. "in fairness, I was unsupervised at the time".
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2019-01-09, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2019-01-09, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
Ahh, but accessory after the fact also requires knowledge.
if I drive you to the bank to rob it AND you've told me part of the plan involves you killing the guard? Conspiracy to commit murder. (And felony murder).
If I drive you to the bank because you need to cash a check, and when you come back you tell me you've killed a guard? Accessory after the fact (if I help you escape). Possible felony murder if they decide my helping you warrants a felony charge).
If I drive you to the bank with intent to rob but not harm anyone, you kill a guard, but I am unaware of that when we leave, then ONLY felony murder (can't be conspiracy for murder since there was no pre-knowledge, or accessory since there was no post knowledge of the murder).
Again, all these could be vastly different than what a DA thinks they can convict on."That's a horrible idea! What time?"
T-Shirt given to me by a good friend.. "in fairness, I was unsupervised at the time".
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2019-01-10, 09:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
I'd love to see the "when I was sitting outside the bank in a car to drive the robbers I heard a gunshot then a lot of screaming from inside, but totally didn't know that there had been a murder" argument. In any case my point was that felony murder explicitly includes deaths not caused by the people committing the crime, which is how it generally gets used.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2019-01-10, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2015
Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
I would make the slight nitpick that the original motivation behind felony murder laws was specifically to handle situations where everyone involved in the crime, in a strict sense, did cause a death, but not intentionally or in an obvious way (which is why the merger doctrine exists.) So if you're part of a group that robs a bank, but you have no intent to hurt anyone, and in fact your guns are fake, and somebody dies of a heart attack, then you're responsible for that death because you decided to commit a crime, it's reasonably foreseeable that even without real guns, something could go wrong during the commission of that crime that could hurt someone, and if you and your buddies hadn't committed that crime, your victim could have lived.
The expansion of how that law has been applied and revised has reached a point where it's pretty inconsistent where the cutoff is for being a cause of the death, and the appellate case law hasn't really seen much effort to define some sort of broad limit, so in practice there just ends up being a huge grey area where the only real question is how unsympathetic you are to the jury.
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2019-01-10, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
"That's a horrible idea! What time?"
T-Shirt given to me by a good friend.. "in fairness, I was unsupervised at the time".
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2019-01-14, 12:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
Re: NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates
{Scrubbed}
Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2019-01-14 at 03:23 PM.