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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Eh. IN THIS GAME you just have to hire a dragon at a level below the stats at which it will evolve. You can always hire a level 1 dragon, and it's fairly easy to get a character to the same level as your main guys. And you could even do it where Zodi is now, every day changes the third slot into a different beast/dragon/demihuman. Also, there are only 4 types of dragons in this game: the basic one and the three evolved forms (one for each alignment). The basic dragons come in different colors based on element, but you can choose which element as part of recruitment.

    And alignment (or even element) changing is really easy in this game - later on there are consumables that will change your alignment one step along chaos or law (one for each) and there's also a mirror of elements that will put the user's element on the target.

    This game has some annoying mechanics, but for most it's refreshingly direct.
    Last edited by tonberrian; 2019-01-18 at 04:02 PM.
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Here's my contribution! More columns will be added as more stylish plays are executed.

    Spoiler: Style Points
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    Unit Counter Kills
    Gaston 0
    Allos 1
    Deneb 0
    Flauros 0
    Kamui 0
    Leon 0
    Thelma 0

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    And you only ever get 1 xp from doing something to a character lower level than you

    Also, random encounters levels are based on Gaston's level. So if, as a main character, he gets to a higher level than anyone else, random encounters will be that much harder.
    Comparing what I've seen so far with Final Fantasy Tactics (my only real point of reference for this genre), it's these sorts of things that make me prefer FF. In that, you get XP equal to 10+level difference (so you'd get 9XP for hitting someone 1 level lower than you), which seems a lot kinder, especially since you're usually fighting people of equal level. And random encounters scale to whoever in your party has the highest level, which doesn't have to be Ramza. You don't even need to deploy him in most random encounters - is the same true of our Gaston?

    Did you forget to equip those shields, Zodi, or was that edited out?
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    With Ogre Battle, at least, part of it comes from the somewhat obscure alignment mechanisms - to reference March of the Black Queen again (because I'm not that familiar with Knight of Lodis's specific system) in order to get a higher-grade dragon you have to go hard into either the 'good' or 'evil' paths, because there is no (IIRC) top-tier 'neutral' version of the dragon. And that pretty much requires husbanding a character to that end from as early as you can, because it's very difficult to significantly modify the required stats at higher levels, and if you recruit a neutral dragon at those levels you're facing a long, frustrating, and tedious slog of abusing game mechanics to adjust them to the point that they can change into the class you want.

    (One of my favorite examples of this is how you can screw yourself out of being able to promote a Wizard - it's a low-alignment class, so trends toward 'evil', but it actually has a minimum alignment. If you get below that minimum mark and, for example, zero out alignment it's very, very hard to raise it back up, so you may wind up never being able to promote that character unless you know exactly how the game manages that stat.)
    Hoo boy. That is a... thing. A thing indeed. Little finnicky mechanics like that can be cool, but also really, really obnoxious if you have no idea how it works. So... I've got a love-hate relationship with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    Eh. IN THIS GAME you just have to hire a dragon at a level below the stats at which it will evolve. You can always hire a level 1 dragon, and it's fairly easy to get a character to the same level as your main guys. And you could even do it where Zodi is now, every day changes the third slot into a different beast/dragon/demihuman. Also, there are only 4 types of dragons in this game: the basic one and the three evolved forms (one for each alignment). The basic dragons come in different colors based on element, but you can choose which element as part of recruitment.

    And alignment (or even element) changing is really easy in this game - later on there are consumables that will change your alignment one step along chaos or law (one for each) and there's also a mirror of elements that will put the user's element on the target.

    This game has some annoying mechanics, but for most it's refreshingly direct.
    Well, that's good to know that there are mechanics in place to help correct errors once one learns more about the game. I always appreciate those, even if they're not quite as good as knowing what to do beforehand. As long as they're useable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    Here's my contribution! More columns will be added as more stylish plays are executed.
    No Style Points for Gaston executing Gaston?

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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNinja View Post
    No Style Points for Gaston executing Gaston?
    Haha, well depending on how many random names the game has to choose from, that's probably not something that's going to come up ever again, so...
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNinja View Post
    Judging by the title, I can already tell why you found our choice of name hilarious...

    I will not be counting Training kills, incidentally.
    Oh, good, we seem to be on the same train of thought with that.

    I assume you mean that random encounters will count for kill-count? If not, I'll change that.

    Spoiler: Army
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    Unit Kills
    Gaston 6
    Allos 1
    Flauros 0
    Kamui 0
    Thelma 0
    Deneb 0
    Leon 0


    Ooh, dragons and dragon tamers. That sounds like fun. But also sounds like very, very late game.
    Yeah, random encounters matter. What I meant is that it's not like, a PLOT encounter.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    Missile spells will, like that Shuriken at the edge of the building, hit obstacles (or people!) in the way.

    Also, random encounters levels are based on Gaston's level. So if, as a main character, he gets to a higher level than anyone else, random encounters will be that much harder.
    Oh boy that first one is gonna...be fun, to find out, on Monday. The joys of recording ahead!

    I also completely forgot that, good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    Here's my contribution! More columns will be added as more stylish plays are executed.

    Spoiler: Style Points
    Show
    Unit Counter Kills
    Gaston 0
    Allos 1
    Deneb 0
    Flauros 0
    Kamui 0
    Leon 0
    Thelma 0



    Comparing what I've seen so far with Final Fantasy Tactics (my only real point of reference for this genre), it's these sorts of things that make me prefer FF. In that, you get XP equal to 10+level difference (so you'd get 9XP for hitting someone 1 level lower than you), which seems a lot kinder, especially since you're usually fighting people of equal level. And random encounters scale to whoever in your party has the highest level, which doesn't have to be Ramza. You don't even need to deploy him in most random encounters - is the same true of our Gaston?

    Did you forget to equip those shields, Zodi, or was that edited out?
    Gaston also did a counter kill, coulda swore I showed it off...I may be thinking of Monday's, we'll see. Also you don't have to deploy Gaston in random encounters, I don't think you have to deploy Gaston ever really, but you should.

    I did equip the shields, mostly, but I did edit it out. Shields aren't useable on people who are using two handed weapons or two one handed weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNinja View Post
    Hoo boy. That is a... thing. A thing indeed. Little finnicky mechanics like that can be cool, but also really, really obnoxious if you have no idea how it works. So... I've got a love-hate relationship with them.
    If you like pointlessly finicky mechanics and sub-systems upon sub-systems, you'll love the Ogre Battle Saga games. None of them do it the same and often do it as an exact mirror to previous games and it's a hell of a thing.


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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Yeah, random encounters matter. What I meant is that it's not like, a PLOT encounter.
    This is just the part that confused me:
    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Once the training is done, we head off to...a random encounter because I said so. We don't be DIRECTLY pursuing random encounters, but if I do them I will show them off since unlike the training fights (which I also won't be making big use of) this doesn't count for our kill counters. .
    I figured one of the underlined was wrong (I assumed the doesn't, because you said you'd show them off), so, just wanted to clarify.

    (As an aside, for random encounters, if it ever gets to the point where you cut them to just show kills, please, please, please try to keep giving the entire order in so I can see the name, because I realized tracking's gonna be a bit harder than in FE, given that not everyone's immediately identifiable by appearance alone. )

    If you like pointlessly finicky mechanics and sub-systems upon sub-systems, you'll love the Ogre Battle Saga games. None of them do it the same and often do it as an exact mirror to previous games and it's a hell of a thing.
    As mentioned, I have a love-hate thing with them. There are times when it's just so much fun to dive in to something, and have all that nuance... but, at other times it just feels so obnoxiously obtuse.

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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNinja View Post
    This is just the part that confused me:

    I figured one of the underlined was wrong (I assumed the doesn't, because you said you'd show them off), so, just wanted to clarify.

    (As an aside, for random encounters, if it ever gets to the point where you cut them to just show kills, please, please, please try to keep giving the entire order in so I can see the name, because I realized tracking's gonna be a bit harder than in FE, given that not everyone's immediately identifiable by appearance alone. )


    As mentioned, I have a love-hate thing with them. There are times when it's just so much fun to dive in to something, and have all that nuance... but, at other times it just feels so obnoxiously obtuse.
    Like I said, I meant they're not plot fights. My ability to find the conceptually mirror of a statement and say it with 100% confidence is astounding and annoying.

    And yeah don't worry, I'll keep the order in if we end up jumping around and stuff.


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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Like I said, I meant they're not plot fights. My ability to find the conceptually mirror of a statement and say it with 100% confidence is astounding and annoying.
    Eh, happens to everyone. The important thing is that you know what you mean, and are willing and able to clarify.
    And yeah don't worry, I'll keep the order in if we end up jumping around and stuff.
    Cool. I figured you probably would, because you've been nice to trackers in the past, but, it's something that I realized during this episode that I couldn't always tell everyone apart at a glance, whoops. (I'm a little fuzzy on names, too, but I imagine that'll get better once they actually start being named after people.)

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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Gaston also did a counter kill, coulda swore I showed it off...I may be thinking of Monday's, we'll see.
    That was in the training fight, which I understand we're not counting?
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    That was in the training fight, which I understand we're not counting?
    Right, good point! My mistake


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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    As far as pointless systems go in Knight of Lodis, there's really just the Biorhythm, which you get a feel with your fortune. Everything else is pretty straightforward. Even game ending is chosen by one choice (that's clearly labelled, iirc, and determines the major game path) and bringing one unit to the final battle.
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    As far as pointless systems go in Knight of Lodis, there's really just the Biorhythm, which you get a feel with your fortune. Everything else is pretty straightforward. Even game ending is chosen by one choice (that's clearly labelled, iirc, and determines the major game path) and bringing one unit to the final battle.
    Except when you actually know what Biorhythm actually affects. Namely the fact that a high one can result in hitting about 75% of sub 50% reported hit rate attacks, and a low one can result in missing 99% attacks consistently. Its important, just hard as HELL to figure out how to manipulate (when you even can).

    Also there are technically 3 endings to the game. Though again completely under Zodi's control.
    Last edited by jindra34; 2019-01-18 at 10:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by jindra34 View Post
    Except when you actually know what Biorhythm actually affects. Namely the fact that a high one can result in hitting about 75% of sub 50% reported hit rate attacks, and a low one can result in missing 99% attacks consistently. Its important, just hard as HELL to figure out how to manipulate (when you even can).
    Isnt byorhitm just the multicolored bar below the portraits? Isnt there an emblem / class combo to move it permanently to +2? Or am I mixing it up with another game / mechanic?

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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Isnt byorhitm just the multicolored bar below the portraits? Isnt there an emblem / class combo to move it permanently to +2? Or am I mixing it up with another game / mechanic?
    Another game mechanic. The gauge under your name is morale, basically. Some class powers, items, and emblems effect it, for example evolved Chaos dragons, Vrtra, give -1 to enemies within 3 tiles, and a Dragon Tamer gives +1 to allied dragons within three squares. The emblem to permanently set it to +2 requires you to go through ALL the classes, including the secret ones (which one of requires an item that is both limited per game and used up when changing), so its not plausible to give it to everyone.
    Last edited by tonberrian; 2019-01-18 at 10:43 PM.
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    Another game mechanic. The gauge under your name is morale, basically. Some class powers and emblems effect it, for example evolved Chaos dragons, Vrtra, give -1 to enemies within 3 tiles, and a Dragon Tamer gives +1 to allied dragons within three squares. The emblem to permanently set it to +2 requires you to go through ALL the classes, including the secret ones (which one of requires an item that is both limited per game and used up when changing), so its not plausible to give it to everyone.
    Spoiler: KoL
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    Dont angel knights give +1 around them? I dont remember how, but Im pretty sure my quest team depended on the +2 to get the required damage to clear things quickly enough

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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
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    Dont angel knights give +1 around them? I dont remember how, but Im pretty sure my quest team depended on the +2 to get the required damage to clear things quickly enough
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    I'm pretty sure angel knights themselves do not, but snapping them with a snapdragon scroll I know puts that ability on the sword. And MC-kun gets the emblem for +2 by beating the game. And the Lawful evolved dragon gives +1 to allies within 3 squares as well.


    Edit:
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    I'm pretty sure there's also an emblem that gives +1 to allies within 3 squares.
    Last edited by tonberrian; 2019-01-19 at 07:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Oh yeah, did some digging on my cart of this game and the Male equivalent of Witch is Warlock. At about a billion times more useful because dark magic can actually do damage with a small chance for a side effect chaser, as opposed to the witches status effect focus.
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by jindra34 View Post
    Oh yeah, did some digging on my cart of this game and the Male equivalent of Witch is Warlock. At about a billion times more useful because dark magic can actually do damage with a small chance for a side effect chaser, as opposed to the witches status effect focus.
    WE'll talk more about things we don't have later, once we have them. I am under the impression that witches get a bonus to status effect spells but I mean I can't actually find any truly in depth information on it's mechanics.


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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    WE'll talk more about things we don't have later, once we have them. I am under the impression that witches get a bonus to status effect spells but I mean I can't actually find any truly in depth information on it's mechanics.
    Lets agree to talk more about why offensive status effect magic sucks for 99% of the classes when Deneb gets her promotion then.
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by jindra34 View Post
    Lets agree to talk more about why offensive status effect magic sucks for 99% of the classes when Deneb gets her promotion then.
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    Does petrify get a duration in this one, or is in the PSP reboot of LuCT? Although that one is still easier to run on a swordmaster I think (I keep mixing LuCT and this one so much). Witches are also the only viable gateway to sirens, so thats not nothing. I cant recall ever finding a use for Warlocks, although I admit Ive always been enamoured of valkyries despite their being not so great.

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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
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    Does petrify get a duration in this one, or is in the PSP reboot of LuCT? Although that one is still easier to run on a swordmaster I think (I keep mixing LuCT and this one so much). Witches are also the only viable gateway to sirens, so thats not nothing. I cant recall ever finding a use for Warlocks, although I admit Ive always been enamoured of valkyries despite their being not so great.
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    I always stat Eleanor up as a valkyrie, but only because there aren't any great physical classes for females, and also Longicolnis. What would you do for her? Siren?
    Last edited by tonberrian; 2019-01-20 at 10:07 PM.
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
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    Does petrify get a duration in this one, or is in the PSP reboot of LuCT? Although that one is still easier to run on a swordmaster I think (I keep mixing LuCT and this one so much). Witches are also the only viable gateway to sirens, so thats not nothing. I cant recall ever finding a use for Warlocks, although I admit Ive always been enamoured of valkyries despite their being not so great.
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    Nope, petrification is till you cure it. Sadly the only access you get to it is through a demon class, or a one copy spell. Then again, its an exception, either your immune to the ability, not in the area of target or you get turned to stone. Also status effect spells in this game are borked if your name isn't Deneb.
    Last edited by jindra34; 2019-01-20 at 10:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
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    I always stat Eleanor up as a valkyrie, but only because there aren't any great physical classes for females, and also Longicolnis. What would you do for her? Siren?
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    Oh, I do Valkyrie as well, but IIRC she can honestly be anything, like most named characters. I tend to keep randos around and not level story characters though. The game is easy enough as is (main game at least)

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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Good morning Vietnam Ovis. It's time for more this.

    Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis [4] A Them Emerges

    Video Length: 44:12

    And by theme I mean not only with regards to plot, but with gameplay as well. In this one...we get to see that I'm perhaps not as smart and yet far smarter than I give myself credit for. We head off to our next destination, and get ambushed by Cressida, an archer lady angry about the deaths of her parents 15 years ago. Lodis killed her family in the Reformation, and she wants revenge. Gaston's response is "yeah but that happened 15 years ago" which uh...probably puts into perspective the type of dude Gaston actually is? It's truly interesting, I feel, that Gaston (who is our protagonist, mind you) can look at someone who's parents were killed in the brutal Reformation that his own side did, that he doesn't even really agree with, and say "yeah but that was like 15 years ago who cares". Just a fun little...thing, to consider. I'm sure it's fine, given we're still attached to the Lodis army and this is a young, impersonally Gaston who hasn't yet learned the truth of the world, like how a certain blonde haired Final Fantasy protagonist did. And by that I mean...well, you'll see.

    But yeah, this video also has some minor desync issues. Now, the next videos WON'T have that problem, because I've figured out two very good and important ways to fix that. That being said our next actual Ogre video will be done in Sony Vegas as opposed to my typical AVS editor. It's time to actually do an upgrade. So there may be some shakiness with quality wise in the upcoming videos as I learn to wrangle that particular bucking bronco. That being said, this one is pretty good...length aside. This is one of the inevitable Issues with a tactic game like this...it's gonna run long, and have not much to really discuss. Still, I hope you enjoy our attempts at rampaging through the country beating up more or less justifiably angry archers who barely even contribute to their undying rage due to the AI being very, VERY strange.

    I also think this episode is actually pretty funny. Just as an aside. But yeah, hope you all enjoyed! Next time...well, Something Will Happen. Hope you didn't like these particular generics...


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  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Zodi you don't want to know where Gaston cannonically ends up. Though this is the only Ogre Battle game where Lodis isn't the big bad country.
    All characters generate the same MP per turn:10.
    And Zodi, late game persuasion offers some really good tricks.
    Yep, shooting your allies in the back is a thing that can happen.
    Zodi, you noticed quite a lot, you just didn't let it register in your brain.
    Archer enemies indeed do like to try and keep maximum range from you, as do casters.
    The proper way to fight: GUARD EVERYTHING.
    So rain will start to fill up that battlefield if it rains hard enough, long enough. As in squares will become water, and then the water will rise covering more squares.
    Was waiting for that, a spell to go and hit the terrain.
    You also kept the mages out of range of the burly barbarian.
    Welcome to tactics games ZODI.
    The true power of ninjas also finally shows its face, they can out run pretty much everyone. CHASE DOWN THOSE ARCHERS AND MAGES.
    79% hit rate is good in this game. If you see a 99% outside of back attacks, it means you grossly out pace the enemy.
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  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    I'm aware of the fish sauce Jindra. I've seen this game to completion I just haven't finished it. We will discuss THAT particularly plot point At An Appropriate Time. And not one whit before hand.

    Yup, I mentioned the water level rising thing.
    Last edited by LaZodiac; 2019-01-21 at 09:25 AM.


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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by jindra34 View Post
    79% hit rate is good in this game. If you see a 99% outside of back attacks, it means you grossly out pace the enemy.
    I don't know why, but I have a visceral aversion to hit rates below 95% in video games. Whether it's Pokemon, Civ, X-COM, Tactics, or even something like Valkyria Chronicles, I can't seem to stop myself from doing everything in my power to buff accuracy.

    Looking forward to watching the video when I get off work!
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    I don't know why, but I have a visceral aversion to hit rates below 95% in video games. Whether it's Pokemon, Civ, X-COM, Tactics, or even something like Valkyria Chronicles, I can't seem to stop myself from doing everything in my power to buff accuracy.

    Looking forward to watching the video when I get off work!
    To be fair in some of those games sub 95% means either a miss, or the attack is worthless. See Valkyrie Chronicles, for instance.


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  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    To be fair in some of those games sub 95% means either a miss, or the attack is worthless. See Valkyrie Chronicles, for instance.
    Certainly true in X-COM. How does one miss a point blank, 95% hit chance shot?
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    Default Re: Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure)

    Quote Originally Posted by jindra34 View Post
    Zodi you don't want to know where Gaston cannonically ends up.
    At the time though everyone who had played the one before already knew it. Knight of Lodis is a prequel for one of the most important characters in the saga.

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