The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    I have no problem with just telling the daedra to go fornicate themselves. Molag Bal? The one time I went into that house, I got out and never went back.
    What annoys me about that one is that you literally have no choice but to kill the Vigilant of Stendarr once you've gone into the house--you can't leave until he's dead! It ought to be possible to talk him down and thus give Molag Bal the virtual finger, but the game just won't let you do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    What annoys me about that one is that you literally have no choice but to kill the Vigilant of Stendarr once you've gone into the house--you can't leave until he's dead! It ought to be possible to talk him down and thus give Molag Bal the virtual finger, but the game just won't let you do it.
    Quests like that are actually an argument I use for tabletop RPGs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    The thing is, Arvak is a good horse and you're doing it a favor by letting it roam the living world again. There's nothing evil about it beyond its looks,.
    I wonder if there is a mod to make it look better? Extreme Makeover, Horse Edition?

    I should look into that.


    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    I finally figured out what to do about the idiot outside that house. Walk up, open console, click, type "disable". Boom, never have to be accosted by him again.
    Not sure if cheating or chim. XD


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Like, if I refuse Namira, I still get dialogue like I went through the whole thing.
    I think last time I played that I just slaughtered everyone. I did complete it once, but only to later sacrifice that Namira follower to another Daedric quest for... Armor? I forget which quest, but I think if you had standard options to pit Daedric followers against each other it would be fun to cause that train wreck.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    But Nocturnal's had to be the worst just because it's so mashed in with the Thieves' Guild. I still want to yell at the Thieves' Guild people sometimes.
    Even before you get to the Nightingale part I wanted to yell at the guild. But yeah, I know what you mean. Honestly if there was an option to just destroy that guild like you can do with the Dark Brotherhood, I'd take it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Quests like that are actually an argument I use for tabletop RPGs.
    A good argument!
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  4. - Top - End - #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    I wonder if there is a mod to make it look better? Extreme Makeover, Horse Edition?

    I should look into that.
    There are a few. Some have the same aesthetic but look much better, some double down on the "evil" and give it black armor decked in skull iconography. Honestly, if I could get a version without the skulls, the armor mod would be pretty awesome for some of my spellsword runs.

    One of my personal favorites, however, just trades it for a standard horse with the generic "ghost" special effect: a translucent blue horse.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    I think last time I played that I just slaughtered everyone. I did complete it once, but only to later sacrifice that Namira follower to another Daedric quest for... Armor? I forget which quest, but I think if you had standard options to pit Daedric followers against each other it would be fun to cause that train wreck.
    Boethiah's armor. Pretty cool in concept, heavy armor with muffle, but that dang poison aura effect made it hard to do anything ranged while sneaking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    One of my personal favorites, however, just trades it for a standard horse with the generic "ghost" special effect: a translucent blue horse.
    Now that looks pretty cool. I might go for that aesthetic. I'm not big on the skeletal horse motif.

    Shadowmere was a bit disappointing. Horse with glowy eyes didn't feel shadowy enough.


    Boethiah's armor. Pretty cool in concept, heavy armor with muffle, but that dang poison aura effect made it hard to do anything ranged while sneaking.
    That's the armor. Thanks. Yeah the poison aura was too problematic for me to make good use of it. Especially if you got followers.
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    One of my personal favorites, however, just trades it for a standard horse with the generic "ghost" special effect: a translucent blue horse.
    Is it this one?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Quests like that are actually an argument I use for tabletop RPGs.
    To be fair to the game, while you should get the chance to TRY to talk him down, there's really not much you can do besides decide to get a nonstandard game over otherwise. Molag Bal decreed thou shalt fight to the death, and so thou shalt, or nobody leaves that house for the rest of forever.

    The Daedric Princes are nigh omnipotent when they put their minds to it, so there's not really anything you can do to effectively defy them. The only real saving grace is they're often dumb as a box of rocks and easily bored, but Molag Bal was in somewhat dire straits there; he wasn't going to get bored and there wasn't really an effective way to trick him into letting you go.

    I'm kind of interested to see what ES6 does with the Daedra. All implications seem to point to Daedra worship being on the decline over the centuries, and their shrines more scarce. They don't feed on worship or anything but do seem limited in what they can do without mortal representatives, and can only really "manifest" around their own shrines now that their ability to open portals is shut off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    To be fair to the game, while you should get the chance to TRY to talk him down, there's really not much you can do besides decide to get a nonstandard game over otherwise. Molag Bal decreed thou shalt fight to the death, and so thou shalt, or nobody leaves that house for the rest of forever.
    You absolutely can try to talk him down. Nothing to stop you from putting your weapon away and trying to surrender to him, like you would to a guard. It would be nice if you could get him to lay off that way, but I agree - all you could expect would be an angry Molag Bal insisting that you get on with it.

    No, what grinds my gears about that guy is that even after I've told him "I don't know anything about the house and I don't care", he will still be there - for weeks if necessary - and still trying to grab me every time I go past. Can't he just... find another vigilant, or a gullible guard or someone to go in with him?

    The same complaint applies to Waking Nightmare.
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  9. - Top - End - #819
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    looked up the Molag Bal quest.

    the only way to fail the quest and thus screw over Molag Bal is kill Logrolf, the priest he wants you to find after killing the vigilant of stendarr.

    Logrolf is a priest of Boethiah, so its technically screwing over two Daedra.

    I imagine I understand people just want to avoid it altogether. it is possible to calm said vigilant of stendarr and just leave the house to never return but the quest will still be there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post

    I imagine I understand people just want to avoid it altogether. it is possible to calm said vigilant of stendarr and just leave the house to never return but the quest will still be there.
    Is it? I thought the door was "Locked; needs a key" until he died.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Is it? I thought the door was "Locked; needs a key" until he died.
    *checks*

    ah it says he can be calmed with certain abilities, but the quest cannot be progressed further and he must be killed to exit the house, unfortunately. your right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    You absolutely can try to talk him down. Nothing to stop you from putting your weapon away and trying to surrender to him, like you would to a guard. It would be nice if you could get him to lay off that way, but I agree - all you could expect would be an angry Molag Bal insisting that you get on with it.
    Molag Bal can't *force* you to kill the guy, or him to kill you, and it wouldn't have been beyond the bounds of possibility for him to just get bored and let you go anyway--they could totally have written the quest that way. What annoys me is that, unless you look up spoilers, there's absolutely no way to know that the trip into the house is a one-way one that forces you to kill the Vigilant; sure, it may be more realistic that sometimes stuff like that happens, but this is a game, it's meant to be fun not realistic.

  14. - Top - End - #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Molag Bal can't *force* you to kill the guy, or him to kill you, and it wouldn't have been beyond the bounds of possibility for him to just get bored and let you go anyway--they could totally have written the quest that way. What annoys me is that, unless you look up spoilers, there's absolutely no way to know that the trip into the house is a one-way one that forces you to kill the Vigilant; sure, it may be more realistic that sometimes stuff like that happens, but this is a game, it's meant to be fun not realistic.
    I wish you could just defy Molag Bal and he sends in a couple of dremora lords (or other creatures of his) for you to fight. Or if there were a mechanical way in which the cage works: maybe it's a pressure plate that activates when you step on it? The you could grab the bars and put your weight on them. Or maybe there could be a hidden switch to activate with telekinesis, or an arrow. Or just using a teleport spell like in Morrowind, where only Dagoth Ur's inner sanctum blocked them. But the concept of "welcome in the cage! Please enjoy your rails!" is rather extraneous to me.

    Actually, it would be pretty cool if you could side with the priest and take him to a shrine of Boethia, and get a different reward.

    Frankly, Skyrim should give you a "sleuth around" option for certain quests. Like this one (if you want, you can conduct an investigation before you enter). Or the one where you have to kill a Redguard and you have no way of knowing which is the bad one. Other times, the game just should let you contact the authorities, like when you find the kid doing the Dark Mother ritual. With the cannibals, it should allow you to investigate their cave before you side with the good guys.
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Frankly, the issue wih Molag Bal's quest is that it starts as, "Hey, let me help this Paladin exorcise evil,", so someone who's actually out to worship the Daedra and do horrible things has no non-metagame reason to start it, and someone who wants to be a good person is getting sucker-punched with being forced to kill a guy on a demon's say-so. (Also, that the Vigilant just breaks into accepting that murder is the only solution kind of insultingly quickly.)
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    Frankly, the issue wih Molag Bal's quest is that it starts as, "Hey, let me help this Paladin exorcise evil,", so someone who's actually out to worship the Daedra and do horrible things has no non-metagame reason to start it, and someone who wants to be a good person is getting sucker-punched with being forced to kill a guy on a demon's say-so. (Also, that the Vigilant just breaks into accepting that murder is the only solution kind of insultingly quickly.)
    I mean, is there a single quest in Skyrim that ISN'T insulting to the Vigilants of Stendarr?
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  17. - Top - End - #827
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I mean, is there a single quest in Skyrim that ISN'T insulting to the Vigilants of Stendarr?
    I would have said, you can kill and rob them for they have very decent loot for early level vampire hunters. But then I rethought my sentence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I mean, is there a single quest in Skyrim that ISN'T insulting to the Vigilants of Stendarr?
    No there isn't. I've even seen some mods do it. the Vigilants of Stendarr are basically the Vigilants of Yamcha in Skyrim.
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  19. - Top - End - #829
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    They're so completely incompetent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    They're so completely incompetent.
    Because they were written that way in all the quests they appear in. The Vigilant order was created after the Oblivion crisis in order to root out and destroy daedra and their worship--I really don't think they would have lasted near 200 years (e.g. to the time period of Skyrim) if they were utterly incompetent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    Frankly, the issue wih Molag Bal's quest is that it starts as, "Hey, let me help this Paladin exorcise evil,", so someone who's actually out to worship the Daedra and do horrible things has no non-metagame reason to start it, and someone who wants to be a good person is getting sucker-punched with being forced to kill a guy on a demon's say-so.
    I don't agree. The initial quest hook fairly reeks of daedric influence. The bad-guy player could go in intending to betray the Vigilant. The good-guy can go in with the best intentions, but ends up trapped - and sure it would be nice if there were another way out, but then Molag Bal would just come across as even more incompetent than the Vigilants.

    And Bal has always struck me as one of the most sinister and threatening daedra, so it would be kinda sad to see him cheapened like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I mean, is there a single quest in Skyrim that ISN'T insulting to the Vigilants of Stendarr?
    Well, there's quite a few that have nothing to do with them at all...
    Last edited by veti; 2019-09-23 at 03:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Because they were written that way in all the quests they appear in. The Vigilant order was created after the Oblivion crisis in order to root out and destroy daedra and their worship--I really don't think they would have lasted near 200 years (e.g. to the time period of Skyrim) if they were utterly incompetent.
    I concur, the poor guys really get the short end of the stick. I mentally hand-wave it by telling myself that they're generalists not specialists, and that's why the Volkihar stomped them flat - they're not min-maxed for fighting vampires specifically like the Dawnguard are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Because they were written that way in all the quests they appear in. The Vigilant order was created after the Oblivion crisis in order to root out and destroy daedra and their worship--I really don't think they would have lasted near 200 years (e.g. to the time period of Skyrim) if they were utterly incompetent.
    Maybe they were competent in the past, and were in a decline. That's basically why the Synod sucks ass in the "present day", but they used to be a decent rival to the Mage's Guild.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    I thought the Synod was a rival to the Mage's Guild largely because they were better at currying favor with the Emperor, which is a skill that does not necessarily correlate to technical competence but often is more directly responsible for success.

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    I stand at the edge, staring down into the abyss...the first notes of "Nerevar Rising" drift up from the depths...dare I step forward to plunge back down this rabbit hole once again?!
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

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    Yes, you do dare. There is no reason not to dare.

    Succumb to it.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Speaking of succumbing to something, I managed to sneak up on a dragon and jump on its back from above for the first time.

    It was a lot of fun until the dragon banked and I went sailing into the side of the mountain. Then it was just ragdoll funny and Wile E. Coyote would be proud. XD

    Next time, I should have my ethereal shout queued up to survive the fall.
    Last edited by DigoDragon; 2019-09-24 at 01:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Speaking of succumbing to something, I managed to sneak up on a dragon and jump on its back from above for the first time.

    It was a lot of fun until the dragon banked and I went sailing into the side of the mountain. Then it was just ragdoll funny and Wile E. Coyote would be proud. XD

    Next time, I should have my ethereal shout queued up to survive the fall.
    Your experience was less "FEIM ZII GRON!" and more "YAAAAAAA-HOO-HOO-HOO-HOOEY!"
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Your experience was less "FEIM ZII GRON!" and more "YAAAAAAA-HOO-HOO-HOO-HOOEY!"
    Funnily enough, YAAAAAA is Dov for "ACME" HOO-HOO-HOO is simply "Doesn't have" and "HOOEY" is "Warranty"
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    I stand at the edge, staring down into the abyss...the first notes of "Nerevar Rising" drift up from the depths...dare I step forward to plunge back down this rabbit hole once again?!
    Unless you're staring at an oncoming apocalypse, then any time is a good time to embrace the weirdness and wonder of Vvardenfell.

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