The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Well, Alduin is dead. My Khajjit doesn't really care about the civil war, so there isn't much left to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    As soon as you involve mods, things get tricky. Without knowing which mods are involved, its hard to say where the bug comes from, and even then your only recourse might be to enable and disable mods systematically to find whichever one is causing it.
    Isolated the error now. If I enable Skyrim Redone (Sky Re), I suddenly cannot pick locks anymore.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    If I wanted to play morrowind and avoid the main quest, what's the next best thing? What questlines are good/have good compatibility. I've noticed with morrowind that if you join one faction another won't like it, and quests have you act against other factions all the time.

    Like should I do one where I'm Imperial cult/Imperial legion/All the western guilds/house whatever and another where I'm the most dunmer dunmer to have ever dunmered? What then to pick. What to skip?
    Last edited by The Jack; 2019-01-22 at 09:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    If I wanted to play morrowind and avoid the main quest, what's the next best thing? What questlines are good/have good compatibility. I've noticed with morrowind that if you join one faction another won't like it, and quests have you act against other factions all the time.

    Like should I do one where I'm Imperial cult/Imperial legion/All the western guilds/house whatever and another where I'm the most dunmer dunmer to have ever dunmered? What then to pick. What to skip?
    Many guilds have conflict with one another. One thing to know is that if you join a Dunmer house, the other houses can no longer be joined. It's one House only.
    The Fighter's guild fights against the Thieves' guild, so to do the questline for both requires doing some quests in a certain order.
    The Mages' guild and the Telvanni also fight one another, iirc.
    The Morag Tong's post-Nerevarine quests involve assassinating high ranking members of the Imperial Legion as well, I think.

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    One thing to remember about Morrowind is that it's not safe to take everything at face value. The Mages, for instance, will give you quests varying between "trivial" and "borderline suicidal for a beginning character", and there's no good indication of which category it falls into until you try it.

    It is possible to make both the Fighters' and Thieves' guilds happy, but you need to be careful about it. They are engaged in an ongoing feud, which you can defuse if you handle it right, but if you just blunder along doing what you're told, you'll just walk straight into it. I think the fighters are the most troublesome faction in the sense that they are most likely to get you into trouble with other factions.

    And there's the Camonna Tong, who fulfil about the same role as Skyrim's Thalmor - existing solely to be cartoonishly evil.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    The Mages' guild and the Telvanni also fight one another, iirc.
    You can, however, become leader of both.

    Ok, and with Ordinator... is there just a ****-ton of perks? How do you get a level of competence?
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2019-01-22 at 10:03 PM.
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    You can, however, become leader of both.

    Ok, and with Ordinator... is there just a ****-ton of perks? How do you get a level of competence?
    Ordinator is set up so some perk trees can actually carry you solo, particularly the magic tree. My current character is level 23 with perks in only Restoration and One-Handed as of now and going pretty strong.

    But the author does recommend modding or consoling in some extra perk points. One extra every 3 levels or so is his recommendation IIRC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Ordinator is set up so some perk trees can actually carry you solo, particularly the magic tree. My current character is level 23 with perks in only Restoration and One-Handed as of now and going pretty strong.

    But the author does recommend modding or consoling in some extra perk points. One extra every 3 levels or so is his recommendation IIRC?
    It's also designed to roll up most of the "tax" perks into a smaller number of perks (usually with an earlier starting availability), so your base competency can roughly keep pace with vanilla while also allowing you to branch out into Ordinator's unique, more "quirky" perks.
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    Archmage Trebonius of the Imperial Mages Guild will eventually ask you to kill all the Telvanni Councilors. For obvious reasons, this is not particularly helpful if you want to go down the Telvanni questline. That said, it's relatively easy to replace Trebonius before he can offer you this quest, and you can replace him even if he's already tasked you with killing the Telvanni Councilors, which will essentially invalidate the quest.

    The Temple has a quest for you to kill off the leadership of the Berne vampire clan, so if you want to do the Berne vampire clan quests, take care of them before getting (or completing) the Temple quest to kill Raxle Berne.

    House Telvanni has a retrieval quest for vampire characters which can conflict with a vampire clan quest for Berne clan vampires, and will send you to the ruin in which the Quarra clan leadership resides.

    You can only join one of the three vampire clans; which one depends on what kind of vampire 'sired' you. The second (and last) clan quest in each vampire clan's questline also asks you to kill a bunch of vampires of the other two clans.

    Won't break things, but the Morag Tong can get somewhat irritable if you kill someone before being given a writ to kill them. Late in the Thieves' Guild questline, there's a quest to kill two people for whom the Morag Tong has writs.

    Some of the earlier Morag Tong writs send you out to kill relatively unimportant members of each of the Great Houses, which could get you expelled from a Great House if you're not at least slightly careful.

    The Morag Tong's post-Nerevarine quests involve assassinating high ranking members of the Imperial Legion as well, I think.
    The Grandmaster Writs send you to kill one legion commander, one Hlaalu councilor, one Telvanni councilor, and a wizard in Gnisis.

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    On ordinator, since I'm in Oldrim, I take advantage of Deadly Dragons ability to convert souls to perks at a 5:1 rate.

    On the other hand, one of Ordinator defining features, is not having to get every single park in a tree to master it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    If I wanted to play morrowind and avoid the main quest, what's the next best thing? What questlines are good/have good compatibility. I've noticed with morrowind that if you join one faction another won't like it, and quests have you act against other factions all the time.

    Like should I do one where I'm Imperial cult/Imperial legion/All the western guilds/house whatever and another where I'm the most dunmer dunmer to have ever dunmered? What then to pick. What to skip?
    General rule of thumb: Telvanni don't get along with others. Including (and sometimes especially) other Telvanni. They're a very traditional Dunmer house (in the openly xenophobic way). They do, however, give out some very nice toys when you complete quests (including a personal favorite, the Amulet of Admonition). They don't pair particularly well with any of the other guilds, but you do get some amusing dialogue here and there if you're also a member of the Mage's Guild. That being said, the Telvanni also don't usually CARE enough one way or another what you're doing or who you're affiliated with. With that in mind, the Telvanni are also the most forgiving House to work with if playing as a Vampire.

    Redoran are also very traditional, but in a much stricter, honorable warrior sense. Their missions pair well with the Tribunal Temple, the Imperial Legion, and the Fighter's Guild, where you're out to save wayward folks from the various dangers of the region, regardless of the pay. With that in mind, they also pair fairly well with the Imperial Cult. They might not always see eye to eye with these organizations, but they at least share the goal of making Morrowind a (slightly) safer place to live.

    Hlaalu, despite being the most powerful house (politically and financially), is walking away the least traditional. They're also quite corrupt and pair well with the Thieves Guild quests. Additionally, while the East Empire Company faction you join in Bloodmoon has no effect or influence with the other guilds, their lore and quest flavor works best with Hlaalu.

    The Morag Tong, Morrowind's answer to the Dark Brotherhood, is a very traditional and honorable organization that exists both sort of within and entirely outside of the Great House's influence. Their entire deal is to, with the permission of their patron god and the Great Houses as a whole, preform legal executions for the sake of avoiding excessive bloodshed, or unnecessary conflict as a whole. Sadly, they don't pair well with House Redoran (unless you are exceptionally sneaky) because while your hits are entirely within the realm of law, you still have to be cleared of the charges if you are seen attacking and killing someone. Which means that, even if it were for a few brief moments, you were classified as a dangerous, murderous thug and thus acting outside of the Redoran's honor code.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    On ordinator, since I'm in Oldrim, I take advantage of Deadly Dragons ability to convert souls to perks at a 5:1 rate.
    There's a few mods keeping me on Oldrim, but Deadly Dragons is the biggest one for me. I know there are some dragon overhauls for the 64 bit version, and you could probably replicate most everything in DD through a whole series of other mods but with all its customization and everything it adds DD is in my mind virtually essential for any playthrough and enough to keep me on Oldrim on its own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talion View Post
    General rule of thumb: Telvanni don't get along with others. Including (and sometimes especially) other Telvanni. They're a very traditional Dunmer house (in the openly xenophobic way). They do, however, give out some very nice toys when you complete quests (including a personal favorite, the Amulet of Admonition).
    The rewards are on of the fields Telvanni excel over all others. And I'm not even talking about the later stuff - the quests you can do right after joining the House get you a decent amount of gold, free spells, some extremely overpowered (though non-unique) rings and a Glass Jinkblade - which is great for anyone using shortblade. And if you prefer other weapons, the value of that thing is crazy for the level you're getting it at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    The Grandmaster Writs send you to kill one legion commander, one Hlaalu councilor, one Telvanni councilor, and a wizard in Gnisis.
    Of course at that point said wizard may be a Telvanni councilor as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickford View Post
    I don't understand your point. Why does it matter what I said?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divayth Fyr View Post
    Of course at that point said wizard may be a Telvanni councilor as well.
    True, if you've gone up the House Telvanni questline. Killing him might break a couple of House Telvanni quests, too, if you haven't done them yet by the time you're getting Grandmanster Writs from the Morag Tong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    True, if you've gone up the House Telvanni questline. Killing him might break a couple of House Telvanni quests, too, if you haven't done them yet by the time you're getting Grandmanster Writs from the Morag Tong.
    Further, the guy in question (Baladas Demnevanni) is actually pretty nice to you after you've greased his wheels with a couple scholarly texts. If you do all his quests he'll even give you his Sphere Centurion as a companion (for as long as you can keep it alive/not stuck in the environment). He's also one of only two people in Morrowind who can help you translate Dwemer and make sense of Kagrenac's ideas. (The other, coincidentally, is literally the last living Dwemer).

    Of course if you don't cozy up to him he's still just the grumpy conjurer who lives on the edge of town and occasionally locks up the tax collector for knocking on the door.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talion View Post
    Further, the guy in question (Baladas Demnevanni) is actually pretty nice to you after you've greased his wheels with a couple scholarly texts. If you do all his quests he'll even give you his Sphere Centurion as a companion (for as long as you can keep it alive/not stuck in the environment). He's also one of only two people in Morrowind who can help you translate Dwemer and make sense of Kagrenac's ideas. (The other, coincidentally, is literally the last living Dwemer).

    Of course if you don't cozy up to him he's still just the grumpy conjurer who lives on the edge of town and occasionally locks up the tax collector for knocking on the door.
    Being a tax collector in Morrowind is dangerous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Being a tax collector in Morrowind is dangerous.
    Fixed that for you!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talion View Post
    Fixed that for you!
    I can't argue with that. XD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Being a tax collector in Morrowind is dangerous.
    Well, bothering a mage(lord) who lived undisturbed for centuries with something as boring as taxes is a bad life choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickford View Post
    I don't understand your point. Why does it matter what I said?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divayth Fyr View Post
    Well, bothering a mage(lord) who lived undisturbed for centuries with something as boring as taxes is a bad life choice.
    He's not the only tax collector that is in danger over the course of the game. There's one in Seyda Neen who gets murdered by a local who accuses him of skimming off the top of his tax collection.
    Mind you, the game never actually tells you if he did or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    He's not the only tax collector that is in danger over the course of the game. There's one in Seyda Neen who gets murdered by a local who accuses him of skimming off the top of his tax collection.
    Mind you, the game never actually tells you if he did or not.
    Actually if I recall correctly, if you review the tax documents you find on his body, there are a few numbers that look...suspicious. Specifically, the murderer in question has taxes of over 100 gold, when the average is somewhere in like the 30 - 50 range. The only other person being taxed that much (and possibly more, I don't recall off the top of my head) is the owner of the local general store.

    That being said, there's a delightful little exploit that lets you not only pocket the money the tax collector had on him, but also collect the bounty for 'administering justice' (IE killing the murderer) by simply skipping the part where you talk to the authorities about it. So you take the money off the corpse, get the journal entry about the killing, confront the murderer, kill him, and wander off to collect your reward. For a starting character, that comes to 700 gold, plus whatever loot was in the killer's house and on the taxman's body.

    Edit: I was slightly mistaken; the Tax Document does show that the murderer was the second highest taxed person in town (at 225) but the rest range from as low as 57 gold to a high of 200, with the outlier of 450 being the trade house owner. The person who paid 200 owns one of the Imperial style homes in town (so for all intents and purposes, was doing well financially) whereas the murderer lived in a run down wooden shack by the shore. Further, the next highest tax in town after them was only taxed at 130, and owns the largest house in town and a fair few luxuries besides (she's an Altmer). So it does at least seem suspect.
    Last edited by Talion; 2019-01-24 at 01:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talion View Post
    Actually if I recall correctly, if you review the tax documents you find on his body, there are a few numbers that look...suspicious. Specifically, the murderer in question has taxes of over 100 gold, when the average is somewhere in like the 30 - 50 range. The only other person being taxed that much (and possibly more, I don't recall off the top of my head) is the owner of the local general store.

    That being said, there's a delightful little exploit that lets you not only pocket the money the tax collector had on him, but also collect the bounty for 'administering justice' (IE killing the murderer) by simply skipping the part where you talk to the authorities about it. So you take the money off the corpse, get the journal entry about the killing, confront the murderer, kill him, and wander off to collect your reward. For a starting character, that comes to 700 gold, plus whatever loot was in the killer's house and on the taxman's body.

    Edit: I was slightly mistaken; the Tax Document does show that the murderer was the second highest taxed person in town (at 225) but the rest range from as low as 57 gold to a high of 200, with the outlier of 450 being the trade house owner. The person who paid 200 owns one of the Imperial style homes in town (so for all intents and purposes, was doing well financially) whereas the murderer lived in a run down wooden shack by the shore. Further, the next highest tax in town after them was only taxed at 130, and owns the largest house in town and a fair few luxuries besides (she's an Altmer). So it does at least seem suspect.
    Now that I think about it, how much does the lighthouse owner pay, seeing as they're sweet with each other? Would be interesting if her taxes got moved to the murderer to make her pay less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Now that I think about it, how much does the lighthouse owner pay, seeing as they're sweet with each other? Would be interesting if her taxes got moved to the murderer to make her pay less.
    Strangely, she pays 134 drakes, the fourth highest overall (out of the 11 people on the tax roll at least). Though if he were skimming off the top, she might have gotten some of that back in gifts...though it'd take a while to break even on that when you also consider the Exquisite ring she gave him (valued at 240 drakes).

    Or that may even have been a fair tax rate. She certainly didn't seem to pay it any mind, even going so far as to speak in the late taxman's defense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talion View Post
    Strangely, she pays 134 drakes, the fourth highest overall (out of the 11 people on the tax roll at least). Though if he were skimming off the top, she might have gotten some of that back in gifts...though it'd take a while to break even on that when you also consider the Exquisite ring she gave him (valued at 240 drakes).

    Or that may even have been a fair tax rate. She certainly didn't seem to pay it any mind, even going so far as to speak in the late taxman's defense.
    Hmm, well that beats my theory that he switched her taxes and those of a random shmuck who paid less than her.
    Still, it just goes to show that we really don't know if he really did skim off the top, or if he inflated the taxes his murderer owed for ****s and giggles, or if someone at the census and excise office did all that. Assuming he gives the tax report directly to his superior, it would mean he falsifies it during his tax collection, then returns it to what it should be before turning it in.
    Last edited by Resileaf; 2019-01-24 at 02:28 PM.

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    On a related note: So 200 septims is a lot of money, or is it?

    Is TES consistent with the value of gold/septims/drakes over the span of its games? The game has such a weird way of assigning values for any item that you can pick up so I wouldn't know.

    I assume a Septim is about 1/20 of what a D&D gold coin would hold (so 20 Septims is a day-laborers daily income) because of arrows usually costing a single septim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    On a related note: So 200 septims is a lot of money, or is it?

    Is TES consistent with the value of gold/septims/drakes over the span of its games? The game has such a weird way of assigning values for any item that you can pick up so I wouldn't know.

    I assume a Septim is about 1/20 of what a D&D gold coin would hold (so 20 Septims is a day-laborers daily income) because of arrows usually costing a single septim.
    Well just about every piece of food you can get in the game costs 1 septim. So judging by that, a single septim might be worth... One meal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Well just about every piece of food you can get in the game costs 1 septim. So judging by that, a single septim might be worth... One meal?
    Within the game, scuttle and scrib jerky each have a notional value of 10 septims, and scrib jelly has a notional value of 5 septims. Of the local alcohols, mazte and sheen have notional values of 10 septims, while greef and sujamma have notional values of 30 septims (interestingly, given that these are single-use items, this is apparently a single-serving value despite the weight of the item and the apparent size when the item is placed within the world, though it's also entirely possible that that's a gameplay or coding issue rather than an aspect of the game that should be taken literally). I would say that one septim for one meal might be more than a little on the low side, at least in Morrowind, unless your meal is a single unit of raw crab meat or a loaf of bread or something like that.

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    Sujamma is served in jugs that might hold about a litre, so I assume it is not a single serving but more akin to a bottle of wine or liquor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    Within the game, scuttle and scrib jerky each have a notional value of 10 septims, and scrib jelly has a notional value of 5 septims. Of the local alcohols, mazte and sheen have notional values of 10 septims, while greef and sujamma have notional values of 30 septims (interestingly, given that these are single-use items, this is apparently a single-serving value despite the weight of the item and the apparent size when the item is placed within the world, though it's also entirely possible that that's a gameplay or coding issue rather than an aspect of the game that should be taken literally). I would say that one septim for one meal might be more than a little on the low side, at least in Morrowind, unless your meal is a single unit of raw crab meat or a loaf of bread or something like that.
    Well, for protein on a budget you could get rat meat (1 drake for 1 pound), crab (1 drake for 0.5 pound), a small kwama egg (1 drake for 0.5 pound), hound meat (2 drakes for 1 pound), a large kwama egg (2 drakes for 2 pounds). (On that note, don't ask me how the Empire considers the Kwama egg one of the few exports worthy of note from the province without either prohibitive upcharging or mind boggling volume).

    For grains and fruit/vegetables we have Saltrice, which goes for 1 drake for 0.1 pound (which would probably be about 0.2 pounds cooked), ash yams (1 drake for 0.5 pounds), Marshmerrow (1 drake for 0.1 pounds), Wickwheat (1 drake for 0.1 pound, out which bread is presumably made), comberry (2 drakes for 0.1 pounds), Luminous Russula (a mushroom, 1 drake for 0.5 pounds), and Violet Coprinus (another mushroom, 1 drake for 0.2 pounds). There's other stuff too, but that's more or less what you can get on the cheap.

    So, all told, you should be able to feel full, and even get a passable range of nutrients, every day for under 10 drakes. Getting a drink to go with it would definitely take a hit out of your budget, unless we assume there's an even cheaper (say, 2 - 5 drakes) beer that goes in all those empty bottles that you find in the game.
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    On a related note: So 200 septims is a lot of money, or is it?

    Is TES consistent with the value of gold/septims/drakes over the span of its games? The game has such a weird way of assigning values for any item that you can pick up so I wouldn't know.

    I assume a Septim is about 1/20 of what a D&D gold coin would hold (so 20 Septims is a day-laborers daily income) because of arrows usually costing a single septim.
    On the higher end of things, it differs greatly.


    In oblivion/skyrim, little is over 10k, whilst in morrowind, rarer armours and artifacts regularly go beyond 10k and can't be sold for any reasonable price. I believe the most expensive items in morrowind are 400,000 but generally a daedric artifact is going to be between 50-150k, whilst in oblivion the top item is a little over 20k. In skyrim, given how you can abuse crafting, it's a little hard to judge, but I don't think you'll go beyond 30k.


    Price of Ebony armour
    morrowind; 133000
    oblivion 5550
    Skyrim: 3550

    Now, the morrowind price here includes two shields I think, but that price difference is so big that I don't think it matters.
    Last edited by The Jack; 2019-01-25 at 06:19 AM.

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