The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Im back for my half yearly skyrim playthrough! And once again I am looking at SSE. I've been sticking with LE this whole time, I know there was a reason why but I cant recall what it was. The last time I looked into it, Im pretty sure that skse had been released for SE, so I don't know my reasoning...

    Is there any reason someone should stick to LE over SE these days? It was likely for Skyrim Romance mod that I stuck with LE, even though anytime I get the urge to try that mod again I uninstall it pretty quickly because I remember how cringy it was, but still.

    I have LE all installed and set up with mods from the last time I played, with a save already there, but Im wondering if it's time I finally move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajiri View Post
    I have LE all installed and set up with mods from the last time I played, with a save already there, but Im wondering if it's time I finally move on.
    I can only think of two reasons to play LE right now. First is if there's a mod you just can't live with that hasn't been ported, and even that isn't that big of an issue if you're capable of converting them yourself. The second reason is if you have a schedule you need to stick to, as the updates to Creation Club can break SKSE64.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Also to Fire and Shock resistance. -50% in Morrowind, -25% in Oblivion. Morrowind also included a -50% Magicka resistance penalty.
    Altmer in Morrowind only had the 50% weaknesses to Fire and Magicka; the Weaknesses to Frost and Shock were only 25%. Oblivion dropped the 50% Weakness to Magicka and reduced the Weakness to Fire down to 25%, bringing it in line with the vulnerability to Shock and Frost.

    Challenge run: play Morrowind as an Altmer with the Apprentice birth sign. See how long you can survive.
    I agree with Divayth Fyr; the additional Weakness to Magicka from the Apprentice birthsign really isn't that much of an issue in Morrowind. Even doubling down on the innate 50% Weakness to Magicka with the 50% Weakness to Magicka from the Apprentice birthsign, the Altmer's elemental weaknesses - especially the 50% Weakness to Fire - are a much more serious vulnerability for an Altmer character than Weakness to Magicka is. Beyond that, the Apprentice is the second-best birthsign for a spellcaster in Morrowind - only the Atronach is better, and the Mage is much worse even with the Altmer's innate bonus to maximum magicka reducing the relative advantage - and Altmer starting bonuses heavily incentivize a spellcasting character if you care at all about optimization, so unless you're not planning to do much of any spellcasting I'd say that an Altmer Apprentice character looks at least somewhat optimized. The only reason I wouldn't recommend taking the Apprentice birthsign for a spellcaster build in Morrowind is that the Atronach is simply better; I think the only time I've ever found Stunted Magicka to be much of an issue in Morrowind was one time when I didn't take enough potions with me and followed the main quest into Kogoruhn ... but by that point in the game I had magic items for Mark, Recall, and both Interventions, so the only real issue that it caused me was the loss of my convenience mark at Tel Uvirith.

    An Altmer Apprentice would be more challenging in Oblivion, where the change to 2xInt base maximum magicka and continuous magicka regeneration made magicka bonuses less valuable even for pure-spellcasting characters and the change to having Weakness to Magicka affect all magical effects rather than just the non-elemental magical effects made Weakness to Magicka much worse. Topping it off, the Apprentice's Weakness to Magicka went from 50% in Morrowind to 100% in Oblivion.

    For Morrowind, I'd think that stacking the Lord's 100% Weakness to Fire with the Altmer's innate 50% Weakness to Fire would probably be much worse than stacking the Apprentice's 50% Weakness to Magicka with the Altmer's innate 50% Weakness to Magicka, and as long as you're planning to cast spells somewhat regularly I'd rate the Apprentice's bonus of +1.5xInt maximum magicka more highly than I'd rate the Lord's bonus of the Blood of the North spell (15 magicka, Restore Health 2 for 30 seconds, 100% chance to cast regardless of Restoration skill and fatigue). 15 magicka is kind of expensive for regular healing, especially on a character who doesn't have enough maximum health to easily take full advantage of it,* the spell can become a bit obsolete later in the game (for example, the standard Restoration spell Regeneration costs 15 magicka and provides Restore Health 1-5 for 20 seconds, giving on average the same total healing in less time, and if you go far enough up the Temple questline or explore the right place you'll find an artifact with a cast-on-use enchantment that gives Restore Health 2 for 30 seconds and some other effects), and at a magnitude of only 2 it's not a very good emergency heal in most situations, unlike for example the Mara's Gift power from the Ritual birthsign or the standard Restoration spell Hearth Heal (13 magicka, Restore Health 20-80). The Apprentice's bonus of +1.5xInt maximum magicka, by contrast, never really goes obsolete as long as you continue spells (which, granted, you might more or less stop doing at some point, cast-on-use items being what they are in Morrowind).

    *I acknowledge that, since Blood of the North is healing over time, characters with less than 61 maximum health can still take full advantage of it as long as they're taking damage while the spell is in effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balmas View Post
    I can only think of two reasons to play LE right now. First is if there's a mod you just can't live with that hasn't been ported, and even that isn't that big of an issue if you're capable of converting them yourself. The second reason is if you have a schedule you need to stick to, as the updates to Creation Club can break SKSE64.
    Set Skyrim to only update when you launch it and you'll never have this problem, since you'll be launching through SKSE instead.
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    The only mods I would really miss would be the MihailMods, because some of those creatures are really cool. I am unsure if they are something that can be ported over with any level of ease.

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    There are a handful of Oldrim mods I still miss, most notably Better Fast Travel. But collectively they're not enough to tempt me back from Special Edition. Really the only reason I still give it disc space is in case I get the urge to play Enderal again, which seems pretty unlikely but you never know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    For Morrowind, I'd think that stacking the Lord's 100% Weakness to Fire with the Altmer's innate 50% Weakness to Fire would probably be much worse than stacking the Apprentice's 50% Weakness to Magicka with the Altmer's innate 50% Weakness to Magicka
    Indeed. And for added suicidalness you can throw in vampirism - for another 50% weakness to fire. Have fun dying whenever as much as a lit match is thrown at you ;)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    Altmer in Morrowind only had the 50% weaknesses to Fire and Magicka; the Weaknesses to Frost and Shock were only 25%. Oblivion dropped the 50% Weakness to Magicka and reduced the Weakness to Fire down to 25%, bringing it in line with the vulnerability to Shock and Frost.


    I agree with Divayth Fyr; the additional Weakness to Magicka from the Apprentice birthsign really isn't that much of an issue in Morrowind. Even doubling down on the innate 50% Weakness to Magicka with the 50% Weakness to Magicka from the Apprentice birthsign, the Altmer's elemental weaknesses - especially the 50% Weakness to Fire - are a much more serious vulnerability for an Altmer character than Weakness to Magicka is. Beyond that, the Apprentice is the second-best birthsign for a spellcaster in Morrowind - only the Atronach is better, and the Mage is much worse even with the Altmer's innate bonus to maximum magicka reducing the relative advantage - and Altmer starting bonuses heavily incentivize a spellcasting character if you care at all about optimization, so unless you're not planning to do much of any spellcasting I'd say that an Altmer Apprentice character looks at least somewhat optimized. The only reason I wouldn't recommend taking the Apprentice birthsign for a spellcaster build in Morrowind is that the Atronach is simply better; I think the only time I've ever found Stunted Magicka to be much of an issue in Morrowind was one time when I didn't take enough potions with me and followed the main quest into Kogoruhn ... but by that point in the game I had magic items for Mark, Recall, and both Interventions, so the only real issue that it caused me was the loss of my convenience mark at Tel Uvirith.

    An Altmer Apprentice would be more challenging in Oblivion, where the change to 2xInt base maximum magicka and continuous magicka regeneration made magicka bonuses less valuable even for pure-spellcasting characters and the change to having Weakness to Magicka affect all magical effects rather than just the non-elemental magical effects made Weakness to Magicka much worse. Topping it off, the Apprentice's Weakness to Magicka went from 50% in Morrowind to 100% in Oblivion.

    For Morrowind, I'd think that stacking the Lord's 100% Weakness to Fire with the Altmer's innate 50% Weakness to Fire would probably be much worse than stacking the Apprentice's 50% Weakness to Magicka with the Altmer's innate 50% Weakness to Magicka, and as long as you're planning to cast spells somewhat regularly I'd rate the Apprentice's bonus of +1.5xInt maximum magicka more highly than I'd rate the Lord's bonus of the Blood of the North spell (15 magicka, Restore Health 2 for 30 seconds, 100% chance to cast regardless of Restoration skill and fatigue). 15 magicka is kind of expensive for regular healing, especially on a character who doesn't have enough maximum health to easily take full advantage of it,* the spell can become a bit obsolete later in the game (for example, the standard Restoration spell Regeneration costs 15 magicka and provides Restore Health 1-5 for 20 seconds, giving on average the same total healing in less time, and if you go far enough up the Temple questline or explore the right place you'll find an artifact with a cast-on-use enchantment that gives Restore Health 2 for 30 seconds and some other effects), and at a magnitude of only 2 it's not a very good emergency heal in most situations, unlike for example the Mara's Gift power from the Ritual birthsign or the standard Restoration spell Hearth Heal (13 magicka, Restore Health 20-80). The Apprentice's bonus of +1.5xInt maximum magicka, by contrast, never really goes obsolete as long as you continue spells (which, granted, you might more or less stop doing at some point, cast-on-use items being what they are in Morrowind).

    *I acknowledge that, since Blood of the North is healing over time, characters with less than 61 maximum health can still take full advantage of it as long as they're taking damage while the spell is in effect.
    You make a compelling case, and I now realize just how long it's been since I played Morrowind.
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    Well, you know what to do, then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    [So much math about mages]
    I always love when mages get exponentially more powerful for just knowing which spell to use when, how to optimize their build and calculate. It is the ultimate: "Eff yea, I'm gonna minmax this dragon to bloody pieces."

    The only thing that is more enjoyable to me would be a caster having to solve simple equations for every cast. The fast you type, the faster you cast. Right answer means success, wrong answer means failure of the spell.

    But that is horrible, HORRIBLE gameplay design. *stares at 3.P's Arithmancy*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Navigate to the Skyrim folder, and there should be one called Data. Most main mod files go in there.
    Hey, just to be clear on using the unofficial patch, did you mean putting it directly into the folder for Skyrim in the Steam directory? And if so, is it just a simple matter of dropping the file for the patch in there and walking away, causing the patch to automatically be applied?

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    I've felt like they should've said the cross band along the torso was some kind of cultural nordic thing, like you wear one when you go on some nordic right of passage and it marks you as someone who's done something impressive or is on a quest to do something impressive. They must go slay something impressive wearing no armour but the harness above the waist, after which they're free to wear it over armour and put a nice metal thing over the front of the harness to say challenge done or something.

    By the same token, it's something non-nords should rarely ever wear (maybe orcs, as a sign they've killed a nord...) . It's too cold for them. When I see an argonian wearing one...
    Last edited by The Jack; 2019-01-06 at 04:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Hey, just to be clear on using the unofficial patch, did you mean putting it directly into the folder for Skyrim in the Steam directory? And if so, is it just a simple matter of dropping the file for the patch in there and walking away, causing the patch to automatically be applied?
    Within Steam's Skyrim folder (the one that contains Skyrim.exe) is a folder named Data. You put the contents of the Unofficial Patch's .7z archive in that Data folder (the contents being a .esp file, a .bsa file, a .ini and a Docs folder).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogremindes View Post
    Within Steam's Skyrim folder (the one that contains Skyrim.exe) is a folder named Data. You put the contents of the Unofficial Patch's .7z archive in that Data folder (the contents being a .esp file, a .bsa file, a .ini and a Docs folder).
    Okay, thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Okay, thank you.
    Oh, and you have to activate the mod... I think the classic Skyrim launcher has a Data Files section for that purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogremindes View Post
    Oh, and you have to activate the mod... I think the classic Skyrim launcher has a Data Files section for that purpose.
    Okay. I opened the data files, but I don't see the Unofficial patch. It is still a 7z file. Do I need to change it to one of the file types you mentioned earlier? And if so, how do I go about doing that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Okay. I opened the data files, but I don't see the Unofficial patch. It is still a 7z file. Do I need to change it to one of the file types you mentioned earlier? And if so, how do I go about doing that?
    7z is an archive format, similar to a zip or rar file. Get 7-Zip (the open source file archive software that 7z originates from) to extract the actual game files, which are what go into the Data folder.

    Mod managers like Vortex or MO2 also recognize archived mods and will extract them appropriately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    7z is an archive format, similar to a zip or rar file. Get 7-Zip (the open source file archive software that 7z originates from) to extract the actual game files, which are what go into the Data folder.

    Mod managers like Vortex or MO2 also recognize archived mods and will extract them appropriately.
    Thank you. That looks like it may have did it. The Unofficial patch appears in the data files of the loading screen. Will see if my issue is resolved tomorrow.

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    I just installed Skyrim SE and am about to start setting up mods while Im thinking what kind of character I want to play. I still love mages, but think I'll try something different this time.

    Any ideas for playing a bard type character in skyrim? The obvious would be the Become a Bard mod, but actual gameplay Im unsure. Im thinking a spellblade, using 1h weapons and illusion magic. Ordinator is a given, since iirc it even had perks for playing spellblades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajiri View Post
    I just installed Skyrim SE and am about to start setting up mods while Im thinking what kind of character I want to play. I still love mages, but think I'll try something different this time.

    Any ideas for playing a bard type character in skyrim? The obvious would be the Become a Bard mod, but actual gameplay Im unsure. Im thinking a spellblade, using 1h weapons and illusion magic. Ordinator is a given, since iirc it even had perks for playing spellblades.
    I find illusion works great at low levels... I can buy Fury in Riverwood (?) and use it on the bandits in the Barrow. Calm and Rally-type spells are also good, and it's easy to turn them into a levelling engine... casting Muffle as you walk along to build your Illusion skill. The various perks really help, but I come to detest the level cap... it's too easy to exceed it before you get the boosters to improve your effective calm/fury level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I find illusion works great at low levels... I can buy Fury in Riverwood (?) and use it on the bandits in the Barrow. Calm and Rally-type spells are also good, and it's easy to turn them into a levelling engine... casting Muffle as you walk along to build your Illusion skill. The various perks really help, but I come to detest the level cap... it's too easy to exceed it before you get the boosters to improve your effective calm/fury level.
    The only thing illusion is good for in Skyrim is level grinding. (Have you ever tried casting Harmony in Whiterun?) Even at low levels when the spells actually function, it still tends to be quicker and easier to just use destruction or conjuration to kill your foes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The only thing illusion is good for in Skyrim is level grinding. (Have you ever tried casting Harmony in Whiterun?) Even at low levels when the spells actually function, it still tends to be quicker and easier to just use destruction or conjuration to kill your foes.
    Watching bandits slaughter each other is hilarious though. And its really nice for thief characters.
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    Three words: Use Magic Device. Go down the enchanting tree for staves and scrolls, and go ham with the magic you weren't born with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Watching bandits slaughter each other is hilarious though. And its really nice for thief characters.
    Yeah, this. If you want to min-max Skyrim and kill everything as efficiently as possible you wouldn't be going down the magic route anyway, at least not without mods--magic is for when you want a bit of variety beyond "Hit with sharp stick until dead".

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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Yeah, this. If you want to min-max Skyrim and kill everything as efficiently as possible you wouldn't be going down the magic route anyway, at least not without mods--magic is for when you want a bit of variety beyond "Hit with sharp stick until dead".
    Yeah, really, not every game is about being as efficient as possible. For some people it's just fun to play a character who has flaws or who isn't optimized. Or even to just take a role in a role-playing game (imagine that).
    Last edited by Resileaf; 2019-01-08 at 04:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajiri View Post
    I just installed Skyrim SE and am about to start setting up mods while Im thinking what kind of character I want to play. I still love mages, but think I'll try something different this time.

    Any ideas for playing a bard type character in skyrim? The obvious would be the Become a Bard mod, but actual gameplay Im unsure. Im thinking a spellblade, using 1h weapons and illusion magic. Ordinator is a given, since iirc it even had perks for playing spellblades.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I find illusion works great at low levels... I can buy Fury in Riverwood (?) and use it on the bandits in the Barrow. Calm and Rally-type spells are also good, and it's easy to turn them into a levelling engine... casting Muffle as you walk along to build your Illusion skill. The various perks really help, but I come to detest the level cap... it's too easy to exceed it before you get the boosters to improve your effective calm/fury level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The only thing illusion is good for in Skyrim is level grinding. (Have you ever tried casting Harmony in Whiterun?) Even at low levels when the spells actually function, it still tends to be quicker and easier to just use destruction or conjuration to kill your foes.
    With Ordinator, illusion is not just viable, it's OP as all get-out.

    For mod suggestions, since you're using Ordinator you may as well grab Enai's other overhauls. In particular: Apocalypse and Summermyst for magic and either Wildcat of Smilodon for combat in general, but there's also overhauls for races, standing stones, vampires and Shouts.

    Speaking of Shouts, be sure to check out Ordinator's speech tree. It has a number of bard-themed powers, and a branch dedicated to Shouting. I'm planning a bard/thief character myself, and I was thinking of making that character a Voice-master eventually.

    Oh, and if you dig around the posts for Become a Bard you should be able to find a list of console commands to configure the mod. In my past game I turned on exp for performing and npc dancing, both of which are off by default. I wish I still had a link to the list, but I guess the link format changed.
    Last edited by Ogremindes; 2019-01-08 at 05:32 PM.

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    Dammit! Even with the Unofficial Skyrim patch, I still can't purchase Children Bedrooms! I hate this bug and it seems like something so basic that it should have been fixed by the real developers long ago!

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Even at low levels when the spells actually function, it still tends to be quicker and easier to just use destruction or conjuration to kill your foes.
    Illusion works just fine, right up to the highest levels, if you just invest the perks in it - which seems like a reasonable requirement for a character who specialises in that. Frenzy plus dual cast plus relevant perks - affects targets well over level 50. Without potions.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

  29. - Top - End - #59
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Spore's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2013

    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    Illusion works just fine, right up to the highest levels, if you just invest the perks in it - which seems like a reasonable requirement for a character who specialises in that. Frenzy plus dual cast plus relevant perks - affects targets well over level 50. Without potions.
    Maybe the frustration stems from the non-inclusion of Dominate spells in the master level. I do not need a ritual speed AoE calm/frenzy/fear. I want a (permanent) non undead thrall.

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Titan in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Maybe the frustration stems from the non-inclusion of Dominate spells in the master level. I do not need a ritual speed AoE calm/frenzy/fear. I want a (permanent) non undead thrall.
    You can have permanent Atronachs as well as undead, even in the base game?

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