The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #631
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    After 2 years on the PS3, I finally finished Skyrim (technically).

    I'm already trying to figure out what my next character should be/go for the next time around...

  2. - Top - End - #632
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Is anyone here playing ESO, specifically on the EU server? Though it would help if I had someone to ask dumb newb questions to :)

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    I am, yes, but I haven't been playing that long. What's your @name?

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    I do play, but on the American server. If you post questions here, I might be able to answer them.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  5. - Top - End - #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I do play, but on the American server. If you post questions here, I might be able to answer them.
    Same here; I play but on the US side.

  6. - Top - End - #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    I am, yes, but I haven't been playing that long. What's your @name?
    I play @sp0reegg.

    I have a 29 Sorc and a 32 Templar and I am kinda burning out on both specs. I'm looking for something similar to WoW hunters (physical ranged attacks, pets, utility) that can also heal. People tell me Templar is the one and only best healer, and I can kinda see why since I had good success. Sorcerer unites many of my preferences with in a hybrid spec (playing magicka pet sorc with a few healing spells, just enough to get through random dungeons). Tbh on Templars I kinda enjoyed tanking more but Magicka DPS with a few healing spells strewn in works so well in dungeons.

    I'm kinda strapped for motivation, and I am not even sure what ESO endgame has for me. The questing is okay, the stories are even kinda nice but at their core they're still MMO quests. Not as bad as "collect 8 bear butts" but you get the gist. I feel there is no cohesive gameplay in each class (mostly because skills are free form and form fits function) and I need as many skill trees on my bars to level as many different **** (even though I read that skills level insanely quickly on 50 anyway?).

    Most bummed I am because the Dominion questline on my Khajiit Sorcerer is engaging and fun (you start off preventing a cult from killing a settlement and go on to save the fricking queen, how cool is that) while the Ebonheart Pact questline on my Argonian Templar really hasn't picked up for me (save island from bandits, boooooring! and then stop a gigantic bone atronach...uhm idk, I like politics RP more). Yes I know you can quest as any race with any questline but it feels weird to save the queen of the opposing faction.

    So a few questions:

    1) Is healing sorc viable in random PvP/dungeons?

    2) How important are racials? Redguard as stam DPS read as very OP for example, or is this a 5% increase?

    3) Can a templar perform all three roles adequately?

    4) How is Zenimax' nerf/buff policy?

    5) Should I level one main with all professions or make one/a few profession alts?

    6) How impactful is the cash shop? I feels borderline predatory to me (CS for carry capacity, mount speed, insane potions), like a korean grinder in which you have to use the shop in order to compete with others and still have a life and work.
    Last edited by Spore; 2019-07-06 at 05:15 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    I play @sp0reegg.

    I have a 29 Sorc and a 32 Templar and I am kinda burning out on both specs. I'm looking for something similar to WoW hunters (physical ranged attacks, pets, utility) that can also heal. People tell me Templar is the one and only best healer, and I can kinda see why since I had good success. Sorcerer unites many of my preferences with in a hybrid spec (playing magicka pet sorc with a few healing spells, just enough to get through random dungeons). Tbh on Templars I kinda enjoyed tanking more but Magicka DPS with a few healing spells strewn in works so well in dungeons.

    I'm kinda strapped for motivation, and I am not even sure what ESO endgame has for me. The questing is okay, the stories are even kinda nice but at their core they're still MMO quests. Not as bad as "collect 8 bear butts" but you get the gist. I feel there is no cohesive gameplay in each class (mostly because skills are free form and form fits function) and I need as many skill trees on my bars to level as many different **** (even though I read that skills level insanely quickly on 50 anyway?).

    Most bummed I am because the Dominion questline on my Khajiit Sorcerer is engaging and fun (you start off preventing a cult from killing a settlement and go on to save the fricking queen, how cool is that) while the Ebonheart Pact questline on my Argonian Templar really hasn't picked up for me (save island from bandits, boooooring! and then stop a gigantic bone atronach...uhm idk, I like politics RP more). Yes I know you can quest as any race with any questline but it feels weird to save the queen of the opposing faction.

    So a few questions:

    1) Is healing sorc viable in random PvP/dungeons?

    2) How important are racials? Redguard as stam DPS read as very OP for example, or is this a 5% increase?

    3) Can a templar perform all three roles adequately?

    4) How is Zenimax' nerf/buff policy?

    5) Should I level one main with all professions or make one/a few profession alts?

    6) How impactful is the cash shop? I feels borderline predatory to me (CS for carry capacity, mount speed, insane potions), like a korean grinder in which you have to use the shop in order to compete with others and still have a life and work.
    Sounds like you want a Warden. They get a lovely bear pet for an ult which, while it cant tank, does do respectable damage and looks cool. As to your questions.

    1: depends on what you consider viable to be. Its certainly possible to build one that performs adequately in public dungeons, but it wouldn't be my first choice for the super top tier dungeons.

    2: Pick whatever race you want to play. Racials help, but they don't really make or break a build until the super top tier of min-maxing.

    3: Sure. Any class can be built to just about any role with some thought, at least enough to run dungeons. Templars in particular do especially well at healing, but they aren't bad at tanking or DPS by any definition.

    4: depends on who you ask. Personally I don't think theyre terribly extreme, but everybody will get salty when their main gets nerfed for overperforming.

    5: There isn't any real advantage to having all the crafting skills on one character besides convenience. There are enough skill points in the game through quests and levels that you can get all your important skills and passives for actually playing the game and still have enough left over for crafting skills.

    6: its not pay to win at all. Items can basically be split into cosmetics and "do this if youre impatient/lazy and want to finish crafting research faster" style bonuses. There are some potions and stuff, but they're comparable to player made potions that you can just buy for gold at guild stores. I've never felt compelled to buy anything from it that wasn't cosmetic.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  8. - Top - End - #638
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    So ****ing sick of Oblivion and trying to get that piece of **** to work.

    If I load up Oscuros, it runs fine, but doesn't have the meshes to allow for CONTAINERS.

    If I DON'T load up Oscuros, it crashes just after the word Bethesda appears (which is really appropriate).

    Firk ding blast.
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  9. - Top - End - #639
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    If it's crashing directly after the Bethesda logo, that may mean that you have a font issue. Try deleting your user settings file and then loading without Oscuro.

  10. - Top - End - #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    If it's crashing directly after the Bethesda logo, that may mean that you have a font issue. Try deleting your user settings file and then loading without Oscuro.
    I deleted EVERYTHING.
    The Cranky Gamer
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
    *Savage Scrolls: A Savage Worlds/Elder Scrolls Conversion
    *The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
    Avatar is from local user Mehangel
    Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
    If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.

  11. - Top - End - #641
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Toggle Archive Invalidation. If not you might have a bad Oscuro's install.
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  12. - Top - End - #642
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I deleted EVERYTHING.
    If you deleted that much, you're better off with a fresh install so that problems like this can't happen.

  13. - Top - End - #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    If you deleted that much, you're better off with a fresh install so that problems like this can't happen.
    Yep, and remember there's a whole procedure to uninstall Oblivion. It's not just a matter of clicking Uninstall.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

  14. - Top - End - #644
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    I don't recall ever uninstalling Oblivion.

  15. - Top - End - #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    I don't recall ever uninstalling Oblivion.
    Heh. Well, if you played it more than once, I think that puts you in the lucky minority.

    For me, it was plagued by fatal bugs that could only be cured by a complete removal and reinstall.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

  16. - Top - End - #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    For me, it was plagued by fatal bugs that could only be cured by a complete removal and reinstall.
    For me, it was the plague of the clod-handed level scaling that stopped my play...it just beat my suspension of disbelief into a pulp.

  17. - Top - End - #647
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    I've installed the game multiple times over the years, but I've usually buried the vanilla game under an avalanche of mods, so I think it's fair to say that I haven't played the base game in probably ten years.

  18. - Top - End - #648
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    I have, it's just as frustrating as I remember, getting weaker as you go unless you take optimal level ups.
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  19. - Top - End - #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    I have, it's just as frustrating as I remember, getting weaker as you go unless you take optimal level ups.
    I never understood this complaint. If leveling worked like Skyrim (where every skill contributed to leveling), then I would agree. But that isn't how it works. You think Athletics levels too fast? OK, don't make it a major skill. You can level it as much as you want and it doesn't affect your character level.

    Pick skills that you are going to use. Don't pick multiple weapon skills (Blade, Blunt, or Unarmed. Pick one and use it.) Pick one armor weight. Beyond those, you are in direct control of how quickly a skill levels. If you take Speechcraft as a major and think it is going up too fast, stop playing the minigame. One school of magic going up too fast? Switch to another for a while.
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  20. - Top - End - #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kesnit View Post
    I never understood this complaint. If leveling worked like Skyrim (where every skill contributed to leveling), then I would agree. But that isn't how it works. You think Athletics levels too fast? OK, don't make it a major skill. You can level it as much as you want and it doesn't affect your character level.

    Pick skills that you are going to use. Don't pick multiple weapon skills (Blade, Blunt, or Unarmed. Pick one and use it.) Pick one armor weight. Beyond those, you are in direct control of how quickly a skill levels. If you take Speechcraft as a major and think it is going up too fast, stop playing the minigame. One school of magic going up too fast? Switch to another for a while.
    The complaint is that it leads to a constrained and artificial play style. By far the commonest recommendation for Oblivion is to pick primary skills that you are not going to use. That way, you can grow your own power without everyone else overtaking you.

    I still have the notebook I used to use for tracking my level ups. At each level up, I'd sum the total of my skill points in skills associated with each of the seven base stats, and then I knew that I had to gain ten points - precisely ten, no more or less- in either two or three of those groups before I could afford to level.

    Which, I'm pretty sure, is not what I was supposed to be thinking about as I played. It's certainly not what I was imagining when I bought it.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

  21. - Top - End - #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kesnit View Post
    I never understood this complaint. If leveling worked like Skyrim (where every skill contributed to leveling), then I would agree. But that isn't how it works. You think Athletics levels too fast? OK, don't make it a major skill. You can level it as much as you want and it doesn't affect your character level.

    Pick skills that you are going to use. Don't pick multiple weapon skills (Blade, Blunt, or Unarmed. Pick one and use it.) Pick one armor weight. Beyond those, you are in direct control of how quickly a skill levels. If you take Speechcraft as a major and think it is going up too fast, stop playing the minigame. One school of magic going up too fast? Switch to another for a while.
    Theres more to it than that. You raise your stats by leveling all your skills, but if you have all of the skills that raise a stat as a main skill, you actually lose a chunk of the potential leveling for that stat, because the skills stop counting for stat increase once you hit the XP to level, and it takes fewer skill ups to level than to max out a stat increase for that level.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2019-07-11 at 04:19 PM.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  22. - Top - End - #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    The complaint is that it leads to a constrained and artificial play style. By far the commonest recommendation for Oblivion is to pick primary skills that you are not going to use. That way, you can grow your own power without everyone else overtaking you.

    I still have the notebook I used to use for tracking my level ups. At each level up, I'd sum the total of my skill points in skills associated with each of the seven base stats, and then I knew that I had to gain ten points - precisely ten, no more or less- in either two or three of those groups before I could afford to level.

    Which, I'm pretty sure, is not what I was supposed to be thinking about as I played. It's certainly not what I was imagining when I bought it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Theres more to it than that. You raise your stats by leveling all your skills, but if you have all of the skills that raise a stat as a main skill, you actually lose a chunk of the potential leveling for that stat, because the skills stop counting for stat increase once you hit the XP to level, and it takes fewer skill ups to level than to max out a stat increase for that level.
    Yeah, except if you just play the game and use the skills, you are going to stay ahead of the curve. No, you don't have to get every point exactly placed correctly. It is possible to play the game just - playing. Pick your skills. Use those skills. Level as level happens. And in the end, you will still be able to win fights and complete the game. (I did it that way playing on the 360 - so without mods. It works. I promise.)

    If you feel the need to min-max Oblivion, that's fine; it's your choice. But that is the point - you are choosing to do that. You are choosing to make things that much harder/more annoying, then blaming the game for being hard/annoying.
    Last edited by Kesnit; 2019-07-11 at 05:36 PM.
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  23. - Top - End - #653
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Vanilla Oblivion is certainly playable, but the ferocious level scaling really is one of its biggest weaknesses.

  24. - Top - End - #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    Vanilla Oblivion is certainly playable, but the ferocious level scaling really is one of its biggest weaknesses.
    I went through the game several times with different builds on the 360 and never saw that. That's why I said to pick skills you plan to use and then actually use them. Sure, the game is going to scale poorly if you pick your skills wrong. (If someone tries to play with the standard classes, the game is not going to scale well, that is true. So don't do that.) It does require some preplanning ("OK, this time I want light armor and unarmed, with stealth and...") , but once that is done, there is no need to min-max every level unless you want to. But as I said before, that is a choice you are choosing to make. That isn't the game becoming difficult (it's really not). That is you saying you cannot be happy unless you min-max the game so much you forget to enjoy it.
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  25. - Top - End - #655
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    That would have been true, but since level scaling of enemies was by chunks. So you'd spend levels 1-5 dealing with Wolves, then when you got to the point you could reasonably fight them and survive most of the time, then at level 6 the game upped them all to Timberwolves, which were twice as tough, faster, stronger, and hit vastly harder. And suddenly you'd feel like you were doing worse than when you first started.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kesnit View Post
    Yeah, except if you just play the game and use the skills, you are going to stay ahead of the curve. No, you don't have to get every point exactly placed correctly. It is possible to play the game just - playing. Pick your skills. Use those skills. Level as level happens. And in the end, you will still be able to win fights and complete the game. (I did it that way playing on the 360 - so without mods. It works. I promise.)
    Believe it or not, I tried that. I didn't go in to the game planning to make it a bookkeeping exercise. That was a reaction to what I found in the game. And when I looked up various discussions online, I found it was a very common experience.

    When I start a new RPG, I expect to spend the first few levels running and hiding from most things. But by the time I reach level 20 or so, I expect to see a payoff in the form of being able to swat bandits and random wildlife with ease. That happens in Morrowind and in Skyrim, it even happens in Fallout 3 which is contemporary with Oblivion. Oblivion is an outlier here.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

  27. - Top - End - #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kesnit View Post
    Yeah, except if you just play the game and use the skills, you are going to stay ahead of the curve.
    Only if the skills you picked for levelling are combat related. If you picked stuff not directly related to combat, such as lockpicking or alchemy, then the monsters would scale up in power while you did not. Same applied to stuff like stealth, so if you played a sneaky thief type you'd rapidly find monsters outscaling your ability to kill them.

  28. - Top - End - #658
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Oh I certainly had that feeling on an alchemy using thief after 10 levels. Bandits were managable but dungeons....oh my god.

    Going vs a lich and a minotaur when your best weapon skill is light blades 23 with a shock dagger its difficult.

    At least I had good stamina and was quickly running away since half my levels were from Acrobatics and Athletics.

    But honestly that can be a good thing in RP not being automatically able to deal with any encounter.
    Last edited by Spore; 2019-07-12 at 01:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kesnit View Post
    I went through the game several times with different builds on the 360 and never saw that.
    You never saw bandits in full glass or Daedric shaking you down on the road for 100 septims? You were never concerned that it didn't matter than anywhere you went, you would only find creatures and treasures carefully scaled for your level (and nothing else)? If it was just playing silly tricks like placing the skills you actually want to use as minors (which is just as silly and un-immersive as the min-maxing you're decrying), then that might be something, but it wasn't and it never will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kesnit View Post
    I went through the game several times with different builds on the 360 and never saw that. That's why I said to pick skills you plan to use and then actually use them. Sure, the game is going to scale poorly if you pick your skills wrong. (If someone tries to play with the standard classes, the game is not going to scale well, that is true. So don't do that.) It does require some preplanning ("OK, this time I want light armor and unarmed, with stealth and...") , but once that is done, there is no need to min-max every level unless you want to. But as I said before, that is a choice you are choosing to make. That isn't the game becoming difficult (it's really not). That is you saying you cannot be happy unless you min-max the game so much you forget to enjoy it.
    The problem is, picking your skills wrong and/or playing an out of the box class is going to be a frequent occurance for anyone new to the game. Knowing which skills are going to be useless requires foreknowledge of the system, gameworld, and possibly the player's own playstyle that the player won't have yet - I know I've had instances where I fully intended to play (EX: ) a thiefy-type with daggers and then found a comparitively-awesome mace, or I wanted to play an illusionist and found out it wasn't working out so switched to conjuration. And a new player is less likely to roll up a new class when they don't know what they're going to use anyway.

    Then, once they've learned how the system works, there are more optimal ways to level up without getting curb-stomped, namely the pick-skills-you-won't-use method others have mentioned.

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