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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    A nice read.

    Every thalmor agent I've met had the charisma of a prolapse. They couldn't convince me the sky blue. Maybe it's just bethesda vision, maybe Mercer Frey was a masterful con to anyone but the very-special-dragonborn (not that Karliah even approached reasonably trustworthy ). The Thalmor are insufferable ****s even if, for any reason, you're playing an altmer. Hell, by altmer standards they're awful. Maybe it's skyrim's style that liars and bad people are exceptionally obvious to the player (except, of course, those few examples where good characters seem like bad characters), but the laws of chim say that, to everyone else, Thalmor agents have double digits of personality.

    Hey, Dunmer are supposed to be worse socially than Altmer, Altmer are supposed to be socially average, but stats and the way they're represented in the games are very different. I have a hard time accepting 'thalmor master plan' or anything approaching such.

    Did the Thalmor even exist pre-skyrim?
    The Skyrim Thalmor agents don't need to be charismatic or charming. Hell, it's to their advantage to have the locals hate them, because then the Nords can say "Look at how dickish the Thalmor are, and the Empire are just accepting them", causing yet more unrest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    In a loose sense, there were stirrings of anti-imperial sentiment from the altmer as far back as Oblivion. I doubt they planned for the Thalmor to happen when they wrote that rumor.
    There was a quest that might today be considered something of foreshadowing of Thalmor sentiment. There is an altmer nobleman in the Imperial city who hires you to gather several ayleid relics for him, and his questline ends with him trying to claim an ancient ayleid crown that will give him ultimate power. I believe that he states when he claims the crown that as an elf, he's reclaiming the natural superiority that his species should have (Or something like that, I don't fully remember because it's been a while).
    Last edited by Resileaf; 2019-01-14 at 09:06 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    The greatest advantage the Thalmor had was gained by the assassination of Ocato in FY 10. It left a power vacuum that caused a seven-year all-out calling-all-pretenders brawl for the succession, during which time they took complete control of Summerset (I imagine separatism would be an easy sell at that juncture), and after which the eventual winners, the Medes, were left scrambling to reclaim the former Imperial holdings piece by piddling piece - keeping in mind that they'd lost Morrowind and Black Marsh before the War of SEAN BEAN MUST BE STOPPED even began, and that wasn't quick enough to keep from losing Vvardenfell and Elsweyr. Lathenil of Sunhold (who probably died before the Void Nights, but still) implies that garden-variety political willful blindness, magnified no doubt by the short-human-lifespan issue, also plays a large role in the Empire's weakened state.

    As to how they managed to kill just about every Blades agent in Tamriel, and categorically every single one in their territory? I have to think they somehow got hold of the highest-level personnel files. That is the only thing that makes sense to me.
    Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    There was a quest that might today be considered something of foreshadowing of Thalmor sentiment. There is an altmer nobleman in the Imperial city who hires you to gather several ayleid relics for him, and his questline ends with him trying to claim an ancient ayleid crown that will give him ultimate power. I believe that he states when he claims the crown that as an elf, he's reclaiming the natural superiority that his species should have (Or something like that, I don't fully remember because it's been a while).
    This guy, specifically.

    I don't think I'd consider him "foreshadowing of Thalmor sentiment," however; "elves are better" and more specifically "my type of elf is better" was a pretty common attitude for elves in Morrowind, just going by how the Dunmer and Altmer describe their races, and Umbacano also looks back to the "glory days" of the "wrong" elven civilization - the Ayleid civilization, which lasted from, roughly, the Middle Merethic Era to the Early First Era, rather than the older Aldmer/Altmer civilization of the Summerset Isles and, presumably, Aldmeris and the more mythical Dawn Era stuff to which the Thalmor notionally seek to return. Essentially, Umbacano wants the restoration of the Roman Empire, or perhaps Classical Period Greece; the Thalmor (notionally) want a return to the mythical Greek Golden Age, when gods lived and walked among men, abundance and ease blessed the land, and strife was as yet unknown.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by DomaDoma View Post
    As to how they managed to kill just about every Blades agent in Tamriel, and categorically every single one in their territory? I have to think they somehow got hold of the highest-level personnel files. That is the only thing that makes sense to me.
    Didn't Cloud Ruler Temple get sacked during the Great War? They might have got the information about the location of Blades agents from there.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Didn't Cloud Ruler Temple get sacked during the Great War? They might have got the information about the location of Blades agents from there.
    Maybe, but the killing of all of the Blades agents in Summerset and Valenwood apparently happened prior to the delivery of the ultimatum which opened the Great War since their heads were sent along with the ultimatum as a "gift" for the Emperor Titus Mede II, at least according to The Great War.

    Additionally, the Thalmor dossier on Esbern states that the archives of Cloud Ruler Temple had been largely destroyed in the siege of the fortress, and in the same document there is a suggestion that documents relating to dragon-lore may have been removed from the Cloud Ruler Temple archives prior to the Thalmor's attack, indicating that the Thalmor attack on Cloud Ruler Temple may have been foreseen by the Blades. Personnel records being rather important documents, I would think that destruction or removal of such would have been a high priority, especially once it became apparent that the fortress would fall. Recovering mostly-complete personnel records from the ruins of the archives after seizing Cloud Ruler Temple, while not completely implausible, strikes me as somewhat unlikely, and if the destruction of the archives was deliberate and thorough, well, there's not much that can be recovered from the ashes of properly-incinerated papers unless there's some magic in Tamriel for it which the player-character has never seen in any of the games (not, mind you, that a "restore document" spell would be of any great value to the player-character in any of the games outside one or two specific quests).
    Last edited by Aeson; 2019-01-15 at 01:03 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    Maybe, but the killing of all of the Blades agents in Summerset and Valenwood apparently happened prior to the delivery of the ultimatum which opened the Great War since their heads were sent along with the ultimatum as a "gift" for the Emperor Titus Mede II, at least according to The Great War.
    Hmmm, 'tis definitely a puzzle, then! Is this one of those situations where we've put more thought into it than Bethesda ever did, though?

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    Playing with Enai Siaion's new mod (Wintersun, the religion mod) and it's really fun. Well, technically I've been playing with it for a while (it was in beta for a bit), but now I'm diving further into it with a wholesale Cleric character. Theldrick: devotee of Arkay, slayer of undead and cleanser of ancient temples.

    Have a fun character arc planned out where I'll get mixed up with Meridia, and get corrupted into worshiping Daedra (mostly so I can try out a bunch of different deities with a coherent reason), but for now he's a good guy who kills undead and doesn't afraid of anything. Started in Folgunthur at level 2 and cleared it out; now I'm level 11 (not as lengthy or harrowing as it sounds; I popped on a x5 leveling multiplier, but still two very tough fights in there). Should be fun to figure out where I go from here.

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Hmmm, 'tis definitely a puzzle, then!
    Britain pulled off a counterintelligence coup at the start of the Second World War, arresting virtually all of the German agents in the country, and they did so primarily through good detective work performed over the preceding decade or so. Germany, too, had some reasonably significant counterintelligence and counterinsurgency successes in the Second World War, crippling or destroying entire resistance networks. It is not at all unbelievable that the Thalmor might have had similar successes, especially if the Vvardenfell network run by Caius Cosades is a typical example of Blades network organization.

    Is this one of those situations where we've put more thought into it than Bethesda ever did, though?
    Probably.

    In his defense, they aren't just random agents, theyre specifically called out as trainers, and he wants you to go to them and learn various useful skills. Its not just an arbitrary thing, he does it specifically to help you survive and maintain your cover as an adventurer.
    I would argue that that makes things even worse; if these six agents provide training services to the entire network, as is suggested within the game, then it isn't that unlikely that they know - and are known by - a significant portion of the network. That makes them a serious vulnerability for the Vvardenfell Blades network; pick up a bottom-rung agent like the Nerevarine notionally is at the start of Morrowind's main quest and six or seven people who each know most of the other members of the network are already compromised. Pick up and break just one of them and a competent counterintelligence service could probably roll up Caius Cosades' entire organization inside a month.

    For security's sake, an intelligence network's agents should know as little about one another as possible and as few other agents as is feasible or the capture of even a bottom-rung member of the network can seriously compromise the entire thing and everyone in it. The more of the network any individual member knows, the faster things go south for the entire network when somebody gets caught. If I get picked up by counterintelligence but can only compromise one other member of the network, only that one other person is directly compromised by my capture and counterintelligence will have a relatively difficult time unraveling the network with only one point of attack. If I get picked up by counterintelligence and can compromise ten other members of the network, counterintelligence is going to have a much, much easier time unraveling the network, not only because I know and can therefore compromise more of the network but also because it's a lot more likely that they'll be able to pick up at least one of the ten people my capture compromised than they are to capture at least one person compromised by me when I only know one other member of the network. Moreover, even if all the people who my capture compromised avoid capture themselves, it is likely that they will at least temporarily need to go relatively inactive to avoid capture, causing some disruption to the network, and the more people who can be compromised by my capture, the greater that disruption can be.
    Last edited by Aeson; 2019-01-15 at 06:07 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Have a fun character arc planned out where I'll get mixed up with Meridia, and get corrupted into worshiping Daedra (mostly so I can try out a bunch of different deities with a coherent reason)
    Roleplaying a paladin in Skyrim is almost impossible. At least Oblivion had the Knights of the Nine mini expansion. I understand that temptation - by daedra - prey in every corner and how refusing the Dark Brotherhood is an incredibly strong character point.

    But if you are done serving the Dawnguard, you can't even properly get into the Companion quest because you have to become a vampire. Basically a worshipper of the divines is really shift out of luck when it comes to morally upstanding questlines. Other than being dragonborn, thane of every hold and destroying the vampire plague, and then continuing being the dragonborn, there is not much to do. I mean, yeah civil war, but even that is morally ambiguous as it is a matter of opinion.

    The thieves' guild are secret Daedra worshippers. The companions have a rogue organization worshipping Hircine (if not by name, in faith). Ironically enough the daedra summoners at the college of Winterhold have a capable storyline for any paladin, even if he just stumbles into their building asking for a bit of restoration magic.

    So a question to you, Rynjin, and to the others. What do you let a proud Good character do in quests? Which mods do you use that ADD Good decisions (philosophically Good as in the D&D sense, not necessarily good as in quality or even morally)? Because honestly, every other character would have just killed Serana on the spot as she holds an Elder Scroll and is an ancient vampire that cannot be unleashed onto the world.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Going back to the Legion (New Vegas), their political role is quite different from that of the Thalmor. Their gameplay role, however, is just the same: tick off the people who seriously deserve it, and suddenly you're getting attacked by column-shaped four-man squadrons of assassins.

    (For what it's worth, ED-E, added to Boone, was what made the battle winnable and got me as far as Freeside intact.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    in the same document there is a suggestion that documents relating to dragon-lore may have been removed from the Cloud Ruler Temple archives prior to the Thalmor's attack, indicating that the Thalmor attack on Cloud Ruler Temple may have been foreseen by the Blades. Personnel records being rather important documents, I would think that destruction or removal of such would have been a high priority, especially once it became apparent that the fortress would fall.
    This is straight headcanon territory, but I believe that the documents were removed well before that. The prophecy clearly outlines a "last Dragonborn." Which makes it safe to assume that, in the Stormcrown Interregnum, there totally was an actual Dragonborn involved. Titus I was not that, yet the worst the Blades get from the Mede victory is a less official role in government. So, what if the actual Dragonborn is essential to the prophecy, but totally unsuited for rulership? The history of monarchy offers plenty of reasons for that, but one thing that would certainly do the job is being born and raised in the Sanguine cult. (And why can your Dragonborn be of any race? Because your ancestor threw some wild magic-slinging parties, that's why.)
    Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    How had the Empire lost Morrowind and Black Marsh even before the Oblivion Crisis?

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    I just dint see why the nords dont organize thalmor murder squads. Ignore the imperials, kill the small groups of thalmor.

    If the thu'um was half as impressive as it was in the lore, they wouldnt be able ti base anything in skyrim.

    Altmer are especially vulnerable to maguc and elements, so they must be awfully poor at magical ambushes.

    Nords are subhumanly stupid and uncharismatuc. I guess they dont have the brains for this kinda thing.
    Last edited by The Jack; 2019-01-15 at 08:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    I just dint see why the nords dont organize thalmor murder squads. Ignore the imperials, kill the small groups of thalmor.

    If the thu'um was half as impressive as it was in the lore, they wouldnt be able ti base anything in skyrim.

    Altmer are especially vulnerable to maguc and elements, so they must be awfully poor at magical ambushes.

    Nords are subhumanly stupid and uncharismatuc. I guess they dont have the brains for this kinda thing.
    What would that solve? With a couple of exceptions, there aren't any Thalmor officially stationed in Stormcloak territory, and indeed if they take over a hold any Thalmor NPCs go away. So they kill a dozen elves and then... what?
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    I dunno. Killing your enemies is generally a good way to settle disputes. Well directed Violence solves problems.
    Last edited by The Jack; 2019-01-15 at 08:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    I dunno. Killing your enemies is generally a good way to settle disputes. Well directed Violence solves problems.
    Gosh, just kill the Thalmor! Why didn't they think of that!

    Oh wait, they tried. Their armies ground each other to a bloody pulp in Cyrodiil. Hence the White Gold Concordant, heance the civil war.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Guerilla warfare. Huge difference.

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    What do you think is the civil war if not just that? Plus there are random events of Stormcloak and Thalmor conflicts on the road you can chance upon.

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    I've got to say, despite Bethesda's infamous writing, they did make a pretty good conflict if it's still causing debate over 7 years after the game came out.

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    Bethesda may not be great at doing writing for a single game (at least after Morrowind), but their lore is fairly compelling and interesting. Skyrim's writing as a whole may not be the best, but the events surrounding it are very interesting. The Thalmor rising is not something you live, it's something you learn, and there is just enough information to guess at what their real motives are without it being confirmed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    Maybe, but the killing of all of the Blades agents in Summerset and Valenwood apparently happened prior to the delivery of the ultimatum which opened the Great War since their heads were sent along with the ultimatum as a "gift" for the Emperor Titus Mede II, at least according to The Great War.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Hmmm, 'tis definitely a puzzle, then! Is this one of those situations where we've put more thought into it than Bethesda ever did, though?
    Again, why couldn't you have a Blades member, or even several, who turned? Get 4 or 5 Altmer in the Blades who, after the Oblivion Crisis, decided that their oaths to the Dragonborn didn't mean anything with no living Dragonborn, and they may be willing to finger all the Blades agents they know. In Summerset, some of your Blades agents will be Altmer, and they may be long-standing agents with a lot of contacts, and you might be able to cripple them in one fell swoop.

    By the time they turn to Valenwood and Elswyr, the Blades might have celled up a bit, and been harder to root out, but controlling Summerset would give them a solid base to work from.
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Again, why couldn't you have a Blades member, or even several, who turned? Get 4 or 5 Altmer in the Blades who, after the Oblivion Crisis, decided that their oaths to the Dragonborn didn't mean anything with no living Dragonborn, and they may be willing to finger all the Blades agents they know. In Summerset, some of your Blades agents will be Altmer, and they may be long-standing agents with a lot of contacts, and you might be able to cripple them in one fell swoop.

    By the time they turn to Valenwood and Elswyr, the Blades might have celled up a bit, and been harder to root out, but controlling Summerset would give them a solid base to work from.
    I would say though that since it's specified that the heads of every single Blade in Summerset was sent to the Imperial City... It pretty much means that if there were traitors who pointed fingers at other agents, they were rewarded as traitors deserve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    How had the Empire lost Morrowind and Black Marsh even before the Oblivion Crisis?
    It hadn't--Morrowind broke away after the eruption of Red Mountain and the following Argonian invasion in 4E 6, and the Argonians left immediately following the Oblivion Crisis. Maybe he meant to say even before the Great War?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mythmonster2 View Post
    I've got to say, despite Bethesda's infamous writing, they did make a pretty good conflict if it's still causing debate over 7 years after the game came out.
    Bethesda make me mad mostly because they waste so much potential. It's like they got the worlds greatest theme park with the best attractions but the eletricity bill hasnt been paid and the staff are all openly hostile towards the customers. It's like they've got a wealth of fantastic stories to work from but they end up making Snyder's superman trilogy...

    I think I'm a fan of TES more because of what they could be, rather than what they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Bethesda may not be great at doing writing for a single game (at least after Morrowind), but their lore is fairly compelling and interesting. Skyrim's writing as a whole may not be the best, but the events surrounding it are very interesting. The Thalmor rising is not something you live, it's something you learn, and there is just enough information to guess at what their real motives are without it being confirmed.
    morrowind had plenty of bad writing in it. Just ask someone about their profession.

    Modern Bethesda dont utilise their lore. look at skyrim: Not a single sky whale in sight. Read Immortal blood and compare the volkihar there to the cookie cutter vampires of dawnguard. Look at skyrim's dwemer architecture and compare to all known descriptions.

    Damn it they had the whole falmer race degenerate into blind goblins so that they could feel more clever about using goblins. (And when they do give us 'proper' falmer, we get the last albino altmer instead...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    I would say though that since it's specified that the heads of every single Blade in Summerset was sent to the Imperial City... It pretty much means that if there were traitors who pointed fingers at other agents, they were rewarded as traitors deserve.
    I would also add that theres no indication that the blades of one province know much about the activities of members from any other province. Heck, Caius actually went back to Cyrodiil during the events of Morrowind, and he doesn't get so much as a name drop that im aware of in Oblivion. However they did it, it probably wasn't through direct treachery.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I would also add that theres no indication that the blades of one province know much about the activities of members from any other province. Heck, Caius actually went back to Cyrodiil during the events of Morrowind, and he doesn't get so much as a name drop that im aware of in Oblivion. However they did it, it probably wasn't through direct treachery.
    Caius did get a short story from one of the Elder Scrolls writers in the aftermath of the Oblivion crisis. I don't know if you've seen it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    Every thalmor agent I've met had the charisma of a prolapse.
    Thank you, this made me laugh out loud.

    They couldn't convince me the sky blue. Maybe it's just bethesda vision, maybe Mercer Frey was a masterful con to anyone but the very-special-dragonborn (not that Karliah even approached reasonably trustworthy ). The Thalmor are insufferable ****s even if, for any reason, you're playing an altmer. Hell, by altmer standards they're awful. Maybe it's skyrim's style that liars and bad people are exceptionally obvious to the player (except, of course, those few examples where good characters seem like bad characters), but the laws of chim say that, to everyone else, Thalmor agents have double digits of personality.

    Hey, Dunmer are supposed to be worse socially than Altmer, Altmer are supposed to be socially average, but stats and the way they're represented in the games are very different. I have a hard time accepting 'thalmor master plan' or anything approaching such.
    Yeah, the Bethsoft writers definitely play the 'arrogant elf' role way past the point of subtlety, but I think that's mostly due to bad writing and low confidence in the innate intellect of their audience. But also, let's not pretend that cartoonishly unlikable foils aren't a common trope in TV and films. It's the common scenery-chewing villain who makes the really good villains stand out.

    Did the Thalmor even exist pre-skyrim?
    No, the Thalmor are a reaction to the events of Oblivion. While their beliefs regarding the inferiority of non-elves may have been common in Aldmeri culture, it was the Oblivion crisis which impelled those beliefs into a political movement which seized power and drove them into war with the Empire.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Roleplaying a paladin in Skyrim is almost impossible. At least Oblivion had the Knights of the Nine mini expansion. I understand that temptation - by daedra - prey in every corner and how refusing the Dark Brotherhood is an incredibly strong character point. But if you are done serving the Dawnguard, you can't even properly get into the Companion quest because you have to become a vampire.
    It's difficult, but I've done it before. The playstyle with Ordinator is pretty fun too. Also, point of order, you don't have to be a vampire to do Dawnguard. It tries to shove the option onto you multiple times, but you can refuse; it just makes the Soul Cairn a bigger PITA. Plus you can cure it in Morthal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Basically a worshipper of the divines is really shift out of luck when it comes to morally upstanding questlines. Other than being dragonborn, thane of every hold and destroying the vampire plague, and then continuing being the dragonborn, there is not much to do. I mean, yeah civil war, but even that is morally ambiguous as it is a matter of opinion.
    Besides wandering around and just killing stuff, I download a lot of quest mods. Stuff like Forgotten City and things like that. Gives me a bit more mileage. Plus I think SOME of the Daedric quests are fine for a Good character. Meridia's and Azura's spring to mind. Maybe CLavicus Vile, I do 't remember him asking you to do anything bad. And Sanguine's is all right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post

    So a question to you, Rynjin, and to the others. What do you let a proud Good character do in quests? Which mods do you use that ADD Good decisions (philosophically Good as in the D&D sense, not necessarily good as in quality or even morally)? Because honestly, every other character would have just killed Serana on the spot as she holds an Elder Scroll and is an ancient vampire that cannot be unleashed onto the world.
    Eh, I don't think so. Plus I like the head canon that Serana mind tricks you when you first meet. Your character sounds so...dazed and bland, and refuses to press when she doesn't answer important questions. And after that, she proves to be a valuable asset.

    I'm not at my gaming PC at the moment, but there are some good mods out there for good guys, even if they are just quests that don't REQUIRE you to do evil stuff.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2019-01-15 at 04:02 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #178
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Re: loss of Morrowind, my impression is that Bethesda's intent isn't so much that Morrowind had broken away from the Empire as that Morrowind remained sufficiently damaged by the fall of Baar Dao and the resultant eruption of Red Mountain in 4E 5 and the following Argonian invasion as to not be a particularly significant factor in the Great War - The Great War, for example, implies that Morrowind is still part of the empire, at least as of the start of the Great War in 4E 171.

    Re: Thalmor, it's claimed in The Great War that the current Thalmor organization existed as a political movement prior to the Oblivion Crisis. While no direct mention of Skyrim's Thalmor is, to my knowledge, made in Oblivion, there is an NPC conversation which you can overhear indicating that "syndicates of wizards have led a boycott of Imperial goods in the lands of the Altmer," which might perhaps be considered an indirect reference to the Thalmor, or at least a proto-Thalmor movement or organization, though my feeling is that, at least when Oblivion was made, it was simply meant to be just one more indication of the Empire's instability towards the end of the Third Era. The First and Third Editions of the Pocket Guide to the Empire also contain references to the Thalmor, but not the organization of that name seen in Skyrim - rather, the Thalmor referenced here are a governing body of the Second Aldmeri Dominion, and are presumably the organization for which the Skyrim Thalmor are named, presumably to imply a connection between the modern Thalmor and the "good old days" of the Second Aldmeri Dominion. Of course, given the long lives of Tamriel's elves, it's at least somewhat plausible that elves of the Second Aldmeri Dominion's Thalmor became affiliated with or founded the 'modern' Thalmor, if going by Morrowind's implied elven lifespans rather than the shorter elven lifespans suggested in the later games; the Second Aldmeri Dominion fell in 2E 896, the last year of the Second Era, and the Third Era only lasted about 433 years.
    Last edited by Aeson; 2019-01-15 at 04:29 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    I had assumed that Morrowind was still part of the Empire. Just... Three quarters of the province no longer existed when Vvanderfell was destroyed, so what contribution it could have made to the Great War would have been minimal already, but then the Argonians invaded, making things even worse. Morrowind is part of the Empire by name only because it is almost not a state anymore after the devastation it suffered.

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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls XV: This is my Thu'um Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    It's difficult, but I've done it before. The playstyle with Ordinator is pretty fun too. Also, point of order, you don't have to be a vampire to do Dawnguard. It tries to shove the option onto you multiple times, but you can refuse; it just makes the Soul Cairn a bigger PITA. Plus you can cure it in Morthal.



    Besides wandering around and just killing stuff, I download a lot of quest mods. Stuff like Forgotten City and things like that. Gives me a bit more mileage. Plus I think SOME of the Daedric quests are fine for a Good character. Meridia's and Azura's spring to mind. Maybe CLavicus Vile, I do 't remember him asking you to do anything bad. And Sanguine's is all right.



    Eh, I don't think so. Plus I like the head canon that Serana mind tricks you when you first meet. Your character sounds so...dazed and bland, and refuses to press when she doesn't answer important questions. And after that, she proves to be a valuable asset.

    I'm not at my gaming PC at the moment, but there are some good mods out there for good guys, even if they are just quests that don't REQUIRE you to do evil stuff.
    Mind tricks are the only way to justify some of it, but they don't justify a lot of it. Remember, a lot of that story is -let's go get the stuff my dad needs so he can't get them, even if he would have never gotten that stuff on his own, and we could've just tried to kill him from the begining.- The Dawnguard storyline might as well be about keeping your penis safe by hiding it in a meatgrinder but not turning the handle. You literally cause the problems your trying to deal with.

    Also, the last falmer... oh how it makes me mad at what a cop out they did.
    There's so much potential for the falmer and they raped that potential in the space of one game and an expansion pack. Dawnguard gives us a nice new area and some cool new weapons and armour, but it's so very terrible for lore.




    other topic.
    I think TES does itself a favour by keeping away from 'paladins'
    There's no arcane/divine divide in TES.
    I can see reason for the playstyle; Restoration was great for melee fighters when it could fortify, and I understand some aedra/daedra and various orders hate the undead and specialise in their eradication, but I don't think there's stuff there for a DnD style Paladin, and I think that's a good thing. Vigilants of stendar are cool, but they're not channeling divinity or acting for justness and goodness.

    It's another reason why I don't like the Dawnguard DLC. The addition of crossbows and the new weapon enchantments are painfully adhering to vampire hunter tropes, they're not there to be their own thing.
    Last edited by The Jack; 2019-01-15 at 05:00 PM.

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